---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 04/17/11: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:49 AM - TR-1 Spar Repair Choice () 2. 08:24 AM - Re: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice (Galin Hernandez) 3. 08:26 AM - Re: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice (Galin Hernandez) 4. 09:29 AM - Re: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice (BlueSkyFlier) 5. 09:48 AM - Spar?New wing () 6. 10:16 AM - Re: Spar?New wing (BlueSkyFlier) 7. 10:23 AM - Re: Longtudinal Stability of KIS TR-1 (BlueSkyFlier) 8. 10:34 AM - Door hinge (ALFRED ROSA) 9. 10:37 AM - Re: Re: Spar?New wing (Scott Stearns) 10. 11:37 AM - Re: Spar?New wing (Scott Stearns) 11. 11:54 AM - Re: Re: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice () 12. 12:19 PM - Re: Door hinge (kent pyle) 13. 02:37 PM - Re: Door hinge () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:37 AM PST US From: Subject: KIS-List: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice 4/17/2011 Hello Alfred, You wrote: ".... out of date." and "..... Of course it is possible Pulsar could have made a gross error on their website, but I don't think so." With the help of Bob Reed (thanks Bob) I was able to go to the Pulsar web site: WWW.Pulsaraircrafts.com and look at what you are seeing. Along with some comments made by Galin, based on his first hand observations (thanks Galin), I believe errors, maybe gross, is exactly what Pulsar has done on their website. What I see is a photo of a four place airplane, combined with some of the two place KIS TR-1 (IO-240) / Sport 150 specifications, combined with an SP 100 title. I guess you could call that a trifecta. Replacement parts for your damaged KIS TR-1 would most likely come, if at all, from what Pulsar now calls the Sport 150. OC ==================================================== Time: 10:51:49 AM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Re: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice From: "BlueSkyFlier" Sorry gents. but you are mistaken. Attached the pic of the Super Cruiser 300 aka TR4. The six-seater Super Pulsar 600 is yet another craft but they don't have a photo of it. You can see from the registration mark, cowling attachments and belly camera that the SP100 and the Super Cruiser 300 are two entirely different planes. Easy to get confused if you don't see them side by side :o) Of course it is possible Pulsar could have made a gross error on their website, but I don't think so. ======================================================== Time: 06:51:42 AM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Re: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice From: "BlueSkyFlier" That might have been the case before OC, but I'm afraid you information is out of date. Things have changed again since. The picture and specs listed for the SP100 on Pulsar's latest website is clearly that of the TR-1. Or would you say the attached picture is not a TRI KIS TR-1 :o) Cheers. -------- _________________________________________ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337122#337122 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/pulsar_sp100_aka_tr_1_193.png ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:03 AM PST US From: Galin Hernandez Subject: Re: KIS-List: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice Here is a picture I took of the SP600 and the SP400 next to each other. My airplane, with dave Tate's original paint scheme on it, is in the background. [image: DSCF1969.JPG] On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 7:47 AM, wrote: > > 4/17/2011 > > Hello Alfred, You wrote: ".... out of date." and "..... Of course it is > possible Pulsar could have made a gross error on their website, but I don't > think so." > > With the help of Bob Reed (thanks Bob) I was able to go to the Pulsar web > site: > > WWW.Pulsaraircrafts.com > > and look at what you are seeing. > > Along with some comments made by Galin, based on his first hand > observations (thanks Galin), I believe errors, maybe gross, is exactly what > Pulsar has done on their website. What I see is a photo of a four place > airplane, combined with some of the two place KIS TR-1 (IO-240) / Sport 150 > specifications, combined with an SP 100 title. I guess you could call that a > trifecta. > > Replacement parts for your damaged KIS TR-1 would most likely come, if at > all, from what Pulsar now calls the Sport 150. > > OC > > ==================================================== > > Time: 10:51:49 AM PST US > Subject: KIS-List: Re: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice > From: "BlueSkyFlier" > > > Sorry gents. but you are mistaken. Attached the pic of the Super Cruiser > 300 aka > TR4. The six-seater Super Pulsar 600 is yet another craft but they don't > have > a photo of it. > > You can see from the registration mark, cowling attachments and belly > camera that > the SP100 and the Super Cruiser 300 are two entirely different planes. > > Easy to get confused if you don't see them side by side :o) > > Of course it is possible Pulsar could have made a gross error on their > website, > but I don't think so. > > ======================================================== > > > Time: 06:51:42 AM PST US > Subject: KIS-List: Re: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice > From: "BlueSkyFlier" > > > That might have been the case before OC, but I'm afraid you information is > out > of date. Things have changed again since. The picture and specs listed for > the > SP100 on Pulsar's latest website is clearly that of the TR-1. > > Or would you say the attached picture is not a TRI KIS TR-1 :o) > > Cheers. > > -------- > _________________________________________ > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337122#337122 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/pulsar_sp100_aka_tr_1_193.png > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:26:08 AM PST US From: Galin Hernandez Subject: Re: KIS-List: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice Sorry SP300 not 400. :o) On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Galin Hernandez wrote: > Here is a picture I took of the SP600 and the SP400 next to each other. My > airplane, with dave Tate's original paint scheme on it, is in the > background. > > [image: DSCF1969.JPG] > > On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 7:47 AM, wrote: > >> >> 4/17/2011 >> >> Hello Alfred, You wrote: ".... out of date." and "..... Of course it is >> possible Pulsar could have made a gross error on their website, but I don't >> think so." >> >> With the help of Bob Reed (thanks Bob) I was able to go to the Pulsar web >> site: >> >> WWW.Pulsaraircrafts.com >> >> and look at what you are seeing. >> >> Along with some comments made by Galin, based on his first hand >> observations (thanks Galin), I believe errors, maybe gross, is exactly what >> Pulsar has done on their website. What I see is a photo of a four place >> airplane, combined with some of the two place KIS TR-1 (IO-240) / Sport 150 >> specifications, combined with an SP 100 title. I guess you could call that a >> trifecta. >> >> Replacement parts for your damaged KIS TR-1 would most likely come, if at >> all, from what Pulsar now calls the Sport 150. >> >> OC >> >> ==================================================== >> >> Time: 10:51:49 AM PST US >> Subject: KIS-List: Re: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice >> From: "BlueSkyFlier" >> >> >> Sorry gents. but you are mistaken. Attached the pic of the Super Cruiser >> 300 aka >> TR4. The six-seater Super Pulsar 600 is yet another craft but they don't >> have >> a photo of it. >> >> You can see from the registration mark, cowling attachments and belly >> camera that >> the SP100 and the Super Cruiser 300 are two entirely different planes. >> >> Easy to get confused if you don't see them side by side :o) >> >> Of course it is possible Pulsar could have made a gross error on their >> website, >> but I don't think so. >> >> ======================================================== >> >> >> Time: 06:51:42 AM PST US >> Subject: KIS-List: Re: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice >> From: "BlueSkyFlier" >> >> >> That might have been the case before OC, but I'm afraid you information is >> out >> of date. Things have changed again since. The picture and specs listed for >> the >> SP100 on Pulsar's latest website is clearly that of the TR-1. >> >> Or would you say the attached picture is not a TRI KIS TR-1 :o) >> >> Cheers. >> >> -------- >> _________________________________________ >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337122#337122 >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/pulsar_sp100_aka_tr_1_193.png >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:29:28 AM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Re: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice From: "BlueSkyFlier" Thanks Galin. That's why this forum is so great. There is always someone who can separate the wheat from the chaf :o) It is clear that Pulsar is bluffing with the SP100 then - now that makes me wonder ... Having been to the factory Galin -- do you think it is worth me spending any time pursuing a new wing from Pulsar? Hard question I know, but lay it out as you think fit - via private mail if you prefer. At least it could help me to ask the right questions when I speak to them again. No names no pack drill of course. Regards, Alfred -------- _________________________________________ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337217#337217 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:48:16 AM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Spar?New wing From: HI Here i go again.[I previously queried about a new wing for a Light Sport TR1 conversion.] so how about staying outside the box.Why not a local copy of the original wing using some local proven methods[3 piece Jodel or T18 style],wood or metal spar and ribs,and Ceconite or metal covering.Use as many of the original wing parts as possible. A cordial relationship with your British "FAA" during the effort may resolve a few problems and make the effort a satisfying fun project. Hiding Ted ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:16:28 AM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Re: Spar?New wing From: "BlueSkyFlier" Not sure I'm completely behind the swing of your axe mate, but as I understand it a light sport conversion would have to be type approved before it can fly. That is a whole different kettle of fish. Be that as it may, most of us are quite happy with the way the original TR-1 flies, so all I am after is to have a supply line for bog standard parts established - wings in this case. If we can get at least a modicum of that support re-established the value of our planes (to ourselves and others) will be retained. So focus should first be on making the current fleet of owners happy by giving them access to replacement parts - that in itself is good marketing and it is the best kind one could get - honest and free. In fact I'll stick my neck out and predict that, unless that happens, Pulsar will not get off the ground (again). Regards, Alfred -------- _________________________________________ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337223#337223 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:23:59 AM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Re: Longtudinal Stability of KIS TR-1 From: "BlueSkyFlier" Thank you Scott. I have tracked Martin Hollman down, but I'll defer establishing contact until I know if there is still life left in Pulsar - who knows, perhaps they can come up with a replacement TR-1 wing that meets spec. I'm not of a mind to flog a dead horse, so I'll let this one trot to its own tune :o) -------- _________________________________________ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337224#337224 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:34:01 AM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Door hinge From: ALFRED ROSA The manuel doesn't give directions for attaching the aluminum hinges to the fuselage top and only instructions for attaching to the doors. Are they to be bonded using micro flox only? Al ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:37:23 AM PST US From: Scott Stearns Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Spar?New wing Hi Alfred... - Please be very wary of pulsar.- I don't know that they ever actually prod uced a part or if they really have any tooling for a TR-1.- They might pr omise you stuff just to get you to send them a check. - Scott- --- On Sun, 4/17/11, BlueSkyFlier wrote: From: BlueSkyFlier Subject: KIS-List: Re: Spar?New wing Not sure I'm completely behind the swing of your axe mate, but as I underst and it a light sport conversion would have to be type approved before it ca n fly. That is a whole different kettle of fish. Be that as it may, most of us are quite happy with the way the original TR- 1 flies, so all I am after is to have a supply line for bog standard parts established - wings in this case. If we can get at least a modicum of that support re-established the value of our planes (to ourselves and others) wi ll be retained. So focus should first be on making the current fleet of owners happy by giv ing them access to replacement parts - that in itself is good marketing and it is the best kind one could get - honest and free. In fact I'll stick my neck out and predict that, unless that happens, Pulsa r will not get off the ground (again). Regards, - - - - - ---Alfred -------- _________________________________________ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337223#337223 le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:48 AM PST US From: Scott Stearns Subject: Re: KIS-List: Spar?New wing It wouldn't be all that much work to make tooling for wing skins and-the spar.- I would just hotwire cut foam-tooling mounted on thick plywood, cover it with aluminum tape, wax it-and layup the skins.- No joggles- or-anything, just top half and bottom half.- You would need to-vaccum bag it but only enough to hold the foam to shape while it cured.- You co uld even make a half tool and glass the skins together later to keep the to ol a managable size.- The spar tool could just be made from wood. - You would also be able to modify the trailing edge of the lower skin to mat ch the triangular cross section of the-flaps/ailerons.- - Scott - - - --- On Sun, 4/17/11, tmclam@suffolk.lib.ny.us wr ote: From: tmclam@suffolk.lib.ny.us Subject: KIS-List: Spar?New wing HI Here i go again.[I previously queried about a new wing for a Light Sport TR1 conversion.] so how about staying outside the box.Why not a local copy of the original wing using some local proven methods[3 piece Jodel or T18 style],wood or metal spar and ribs,and Ceconite or metal covering.Use as many of the original wing parts as possible. A cordial relationship with your British "FAA" during the effort may resolve a few problems and make the effort a satisfying fun project. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Hiding - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Ted le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:56 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice 4/17/2011 Hello Alfred, You wrote: 1) "It is clear that Pulsar is bluffing with the SP100 then - now that makes me wonder ..." I don't understand what you meant by "...Pulsar is bluffing with the SP100...". Their whole El Salvador operation may be considered a bluff when it comes to seriously producing and selling composite airplane kits. Here is my take on the Pulsar in El Salvador situation. A) When Rich Trickel left, 95 percent of their corporate memory and composite technical capability left with him. B) I don't think that Pulsar has actually produced and sold any complete kits since the move to El Salvador. That's kits to be built by procuring customers, not in factory prototypes or "one off" articles. C) Pulsar existed as a build for speculation / custom order shop in El Salvador and produced one or two completed airplanes for sale. D) Pulsar in El Salvador is making some attempt at building / selling only three airplanes or airplane kits. A two seater, a four seater, and a six seater. Here is a quote from their Our Mission statement: "Today the group supplies 3 types of aircrafts with capacity for two, four and six persons." E) The airplane designated as the SP (Super Pulsar) 100 is the two place airplane offering in their stable. You can recognize it in the pictures as the one with the one piece canopy and windshield. The SP 100 is a derivative of the original Pulsar line of aircraft developed years ago in Texas by Mark Brown. Its construction method is distinctively different than the construction method used by Rich Trickel doing business as Tri-R Technologies. F) When Pulsar bought out (took over) Tri-R Technologies and moved to El Salvador they did not vigorously promote the KIS TR-1 / Pulsar Sport 150. I am not sure if even one such kit / airplane was made from scratch there -- possibly the pink one that appears in some photographs on the Pulsar web site may have been made there, but with many parts shipped from California. 2) ".... worth me spending any time pursuing a new wing from Pulsar?" Getting major KIS TR-1 / Sport 150 composite parts from the people now left at Pulsar in El Salvador is going to be a very dicey proposition. OC ============================================================ From: "BlueSkyFlier" Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 12:27 PM Subject: KIS-List: Re: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice > > > Thanks Galin. That's why this forum is so great. There is always someone > who can separate the wheat from the chaf :o) > > It is clear that Pulsar is bluffing with the SP100 then - now that makes > me wonder ... > > Having been to the factory Galin -- do you think it is worth me spending > any time pursuing a new wing from Pulsar? Hard question I know, but lay it > out as you think fit - via private mail if you prefer. > > At least it could help me to ask the right questions when I speak to them > again. No names no pack drill of course. > > Regards, > Alfred > > -------- > _________________________________________ > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337217#337217 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:19:45 PM PST US From: "kent pyle" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge Mine are bolted in place. Kent ----- Original Message ----- From: ALFRED ROSA To: kisbuilders Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 12:31 PM Subject: KIS-List: Door hinge The manuel doesn't give directions for attaching the aluminum hinges to the fuselage top and only instructions for attaching to the doors. Are they to be bonded using micro flox only? Al ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 04/17/11 01:34:00 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:21 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge 4/17/2011 Hello Al, You wrote: "Are they to be bonded using micro flox only?" I don't think that you can trust an epoxy flox mixture only to hold the door hinges to the fuselage top. Sooner or later a gust of wind will catch those doors when they are open on the ground and the hinge removal force could be significant. I used two 10 - 32 flat head Torx drive (6 lobe) machine screws to fasten the fuselage side of each of my four door hinges into the carbon fiber reenforced depressions provided for those hinge ends. I obtained the screws from here: http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSCFCMXS.cfm The exterior hinge ends and countersunk screw heads are buried under micro - flox filler, sanded to blend in with the fuselage top shape, and painted for appearance. The inside ceiling end of the screws are fastened with nylon insert stop nuts and the extended screw ends cut and filed off to avoid banging into the heads of occupants. 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." = ----- Original Message ----- From: ALFRED ROSA To: kisbuilders Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 1:31 PM Subject: KIS-List: Door hinge The manuel doesn't give directions for attaching the aluminum hinges to the fuselage top and only instructions for attaching to the doors. Are they to be bonded using micro flox only? Al ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.