---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 04/18/11: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:34 AM - Re: Door hinge () 2. 07:23 AM - Re: Door hinge (Scott Stearns) 3. 07:34 AM - Re: Door hinge (Bill Schertz) 4. 10:27 AM - Re: Door hinge (ALFRED ROSA) 5. 11:04 AM - Re: Door hinge (Scott Stearns) 6. 11:35 AM - Re: alfred (Richard Trickel) 7. 11:54 AM - Re: Door hinge (Richard Trickel) 8. 12:07 PM - Re: Re: Longtudinal Stability of KIS TR-1 (Richard Trickel) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:34 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge 4/18/2011 Hello Alfred, You wrote: 1) ".... my head almost reaches the ceiling. The last thing I need are bolts or nuts protruding down from the cockpit ceiling." Yes, the seat-to-head ceiling clearance in my KIS TR-1 is also very marginal and the top band of the headset sticking up aggravates the problem. It turns out though that the location of the inside nuts on the screws holding the fuselage end of the hinges is such that they are very rarely a factor in head contact. 2) ".... put the nuts on the outside and bury them with micro flox...? That should work provided that the nuts don't stick up so far that they make a bump on the fuselage finish. Also consider that someday someone may want to remove the fuselage end of the hinges by unscrewing the machine screws holding them in place. 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." ======== ----- Original Message ----- From: ALFRED ROSA To: bakerocb@cox.net Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:08 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 5:35 PM, wrote: 4/17/2011 The inside ceiling end of the screws are fastened with nylon insert stop nuts and the extended screw ends cut and filed off to avoid banging into the heads of occupants. With my Mazda Miata seats my head almost reaches the ceiling. The last thing I need are bolts or nuts protruding down from the cockpit ceiling. I might use 10/32 flat head machine screws with tinnerman washers on the inside and put the nuts on the outside and bury them with micro flox. Al ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:44 AM PST US From: Scott Stearns Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge You can also use shear nuts which-are half the thickness of standard nuts .- That's what I used.- - I also sandwiched the hinge between two peices of 1/16" phenolic and bonded it into the fuselage.- Than you can pull off the door and have a slot to slip the hinges into.- I drilled down through the sandwich with the door exactly where I wanted it and used countersunk-bolts and thin nuts on th e inside. - Scott --- On Mon, 4/18/11, bakerocb@cox.net wrote: From: bakerocb@cox.net Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge a@gmail.com> 4/18/2011 - Hello Alfred, You wrote: - 1) "....--my head almost reaches the ceiling. The last thing I need are bolts or nuts protruding down from the cockpit ceiling." - Yes, the seat-to-head ceiling clearance-in my KIS TR-1 is also very margi nal and the top band of the headset sticking up aggravates the problem. It turns out though that the location of the inside nuts on the screws holding the fuselage-end of the hinges is such that they are very rarely a facto r in head contact. - 2) ".... put the nuts on the outside and bury them with micro flox...? - That should work provided that the nuts don't stick up so far that they mak e a bump on the fuselage finish. Also consider that someday someone may wan t to remove the fuselage end of the hinges by unscrewing the machine screws holding them in place. - 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." - ======== ----- Original Message ----- From: ALFRED ROSA Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:08 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 5:35 PM, wrote: 4/17/2011 The inside-ceiling end of the screws are fastened with nylon insert stop nuts and the extended screw ends cut and filed off to avoid banging into th e heads of occupants. With my Mazda Miata seats my head almost reaches the ceiling. -The last t hing I need are bolts or nuts protruding down from the cockpit ceiling. I might use 10/32 flat head machine screws with tinnerman washers on the in side and put the nuts on the outside and bury them with micro flox. Al ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:47 AM PST US From: "Bill Schertz" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge You need to bolt them in place. You have to make sure they are aligned with one another so that they don=99t bind when the door swings. I did this using a piece of wood to represent the door, and aligned the hinges and then drilled the fuselage top to match holes in the hinges Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS Phase one testing Completed From: ALFRED ROSA Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 12:31 PM Subject: KIS-List: Door hinge The manuel doesn't give directions for attaching the aluminum hinges to the fuselage top and only instructions for attaching to the doors. Are they to be bonded using micro flox only? Al ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:27:28 AM PST US Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge From: ALFRED ROSA I think I'll make access covers to the hinges to be able to get at the nuts. 4 countersunk 8/32 screws could hold the access covers to the fuselage top. Moulding fiberglass to the exact contour would be easy using the fuselage top as a mold. It sounds like a plan. Al On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Scott Stearns wrote: > You can also use shear nuts which are half the thickness of standard nuts. > That's what I used. > > I also sandwiched the hinge between two peices of 1/16" phenolic and bonded > it into the fuselage. Than you can pull off the door and have a slot to > slip the hinges into. I drilled down through the sandwich with the door > exactly where I wanted it and used countersunk bolts and thin nuts on the > inside. > > Scott > > --- On *Mon, 4/18/11, bakerocb@cox.net * wrote: > > > From: bakerocb@cox.net > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge > To: "KIS-LIST, MATRONICS" , "ALFRED ROSA" < > fredorosa@gmail.com> > Date: Monday, April 18, 2011, 4:27 AM > > 4/18/2011 > > Hello Alfred, You wrote: > > 1) ".... my head almost reaches the ceiling. The last thing I need are > bolts or nuts protruding down from the cockpit ceiling." > > Yes, the seat-to-head ceiling clearance in my KIS TR-1 is also very > marginal and the top band of the headset sticking up aggravates the problem. > It turns out though that the location of the inside nuts on the screws > holding the fuselage end of the hinges is such that they are very rarely a > factor in head contact. > > 2) ".... put the nuts on the outside and bury them with micro flox...? > > That should work provided that the nuts don't stick up so far that they > make a bump on the fuselage finish. Also consider that someday someone may > want to remove the fuselage end of the hinges by unscrewing the machine > screws holding them in place. > > 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to > gather and understand knowledge." > > ================================= > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* ALFRED ROSA > *To:* bakerocb@cox.net > *Sent:* Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:08 PM > *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: Door hinge > > > On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 5:35 PM, > > wrote: > > 4/17/2011 > The inside ceiling end of the screws are fastened with nylon insert stop > nuts and the extended screw ends cut and filed off to avoid banging into the > heads of occupants. > > > With my Mazda Miata seats my head almost reaches the ceiling. The last > thing I need are bolts or nuts protruding down from the cockpit ceiling. > I might use 10/32 flat head machine screws with tinnerman washers on the > inside and put the nuts on the outside and bury them with micro flox. > > Al > > * > > =nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com > llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:04:07 AM PST US From: Scott Stearns Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge I would sit in the airplane and see if you head actually comes close fasten ers.- I thought it would be a problem in my airplane, but I've never had a problem.- The thin nuts with a thin washer are less than 1/4 inch thick .. - Scott --- On Mon, 4/18/11, ALFRED ROSA wrote: From: ALFRED ROSA Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge I think I'll make access covers to the hinges to be able to get at the nuts . -4 countersunk 8/32 screws could hold the access covers to the fuselage top. Moulding fiberglass to the exact contour would be easy using the fuselage t op as a mold. -It sounds like a plan. Al On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Scott Stearns wrote : You can also use shear nuts which-are half the thickness of standard nuts .- That's what I used.- - I also sandwiched the hinge between two peices of 1/16" phenolic and bonded it into the fuselage.- Than you can pull off the door and have a slot to slip the hinges into.- I drilled down through the sandwich with the door exactly where I wanted it and used countersunk-bolts and thin nuts on th e inside. - Scott --- On Mon, 4/18/11, bakerocb@cox.net wrote: From: bakerocb@cox.net Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge a@gmail.com> 4/18/2011 - Hello Alfred, You wrote: - 1) "....--my head almost reaches the ceiling. The last thing I need are bolts or nuts protruding down from the cockpit ceiling." - Yes, the seat-to-head ceiling clearance-in my KIS TR-1 is also very margi nal and the top band of the headset sticking up aggravates the problem. It turns out though that the location of the inside nuts on the screws holding the fuselage-end of the hinges is such that they are very rarely a facto r in head contact. - 2) ".... put the nuts on the outside and bury them with micro flox...? - That should work provided that the nuts don't stick up so far that they mak e a bump on the fuselage finish. Also consider that someday someone may wan t to remove the fuselage end of the hinges by unscrewing the machine screws holding them in place. - 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." - ======== ----- Original Message ----- From: ALFRED ROSA Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:08 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 5:35 PM, wrote: 4/17/2011 The inside-ceiling end of the screws are fastened with nylon insert stop nuts and the extended screw ends cut and filed off to avoid banging into th e heads of occupants. With my Mazda Miata seats my head almost reaches the ceiling. -The last t hing I need are bolts or nuts protruding down from the cockpit ceiling. I might use 10/32 flat head machine screws with tinnerman washers on the in side and put the nuts on the outside and bury them with micro flox. Al =nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:35:23 AM PST US From: Richard Trickel Subject: KIS-List: Re: alfred O.C has hit it pretty close about Pulsar.- As many of you know I had to l eave there because they were way behind on paying me.- They still owe me $45,000 in back pay and I doubt I will ever see it.- I have been a little caucious about making statements regarding this company.- But what the h ell. I wuld probably have starved to death there waiting for some honesty. - Pulsar did get to the point of making parts but only Plsar 100 parts were m ade.- A total of three kits were made while I was there.- All three kit s were paid for and as of several montths ago (around October) Only two of the kits were sent out and they were not complete.- I do not know if the rest of the parts were sent after I left in Jan. 2010.- No Kis parts were built.- The aircraft that we assembled there had all been built in the U .S. by me prior to the move to El Salvador.- This is also Another story. - The pink TR-1 (Pulsar Sport150) was a kit that was purchased from a cus tomer that never started building.- It was painted Pink to indicate it wa s built by women even though it was not.- A few women did tinker on it th ough.- They were mostly not paid staff.-- The Six palce plane was sta rted by me in the U.S. for the person who took over my shop and hired me to work there after selling Tri R Tech.- It was not ready to fly when I lef t and the pictures of the toilet and refrig are true.- It also had a Microwave oven.- Never had the money to finish it up. and was tail heavy witgh all the trinkets in the baggage bay area.- There web site is fairly new and I do not know this person Alfred has talke d to in the states. When I left the top wing mold for the TR-1need to be replaced but all other molds were there.- They do Have the tech info but whether they understan d them is another question.- When I left the Oven was not operational but only need a few simple things to make it work like GAS. All I can say is good luck.- The Owner of the company is tops at putting on a good show.- He will sell you anything cash up front. Rich --- On Sun, 4/17/11, bakerocb@cox.net wrote: From: bakerocb@cox.net Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice 4/17/2011 Hello Alfred, You wrote: 1) "It is clear that Pulsar is bluffing with the SP100 then - now that make s me wonder ..." I don't understand what you meant by "...Pulsar is bluffing with the SP100. ..". Their whole El Salvador operation may be considered a bluff when it co mes to seriously producing and selling composite airplane kits. Here is my take on the Pulsar in El Salvador situation. A) When Rich Trickel left, 95 percent of their corporate memory and composi te technical capability left with him. B) I don't think that Pulsar has actually produced and sold any complete ki ts since the move to El Salvador. That's kits to be built by procuring cust omers, not in factory prototypes or "one off" articles. C) Pulsar existed as a build for speculation / custom order shop in El Salv ador and produced one or two completed airplanes for sale. D) Pulsar in El Salvador is making some attempt at building / selling only three airplanes or airplane kits. A two seater, a four seater, and a six se ater. Here is a quote from their Our Mission statement: "Today the group su pplies 3 types of aircrafts with capacity for two, four and six persons." E) The airplane designated as the SP (Super Pulsar) 100 is the two place ai rplane offering in their stable. You can recognize it in the pictures as th e one with the one piece canopy and windshield. The SP 100 is a derivative of the original Pulsar line of aircraft developed years ago in Texas by Mar k Brown. Its construction method is distinctively different than the constr uction method used by Rich Trickel doing business as Tri-R Technologies. F) When Pulsar bought out (took over) Tri-R Technologies and moved to El Sa lvador they did not vigorously promote the KIS TR-1 / Pulsar Sport 150. I a m not sure if even one such kit / airplane was made from scratch there -- - possibly the pink one that appears in some photographs on the Pulsar we b site may have been made there, but with many parts shipped from Californi a. 2) ".... worth me spending any time pursuing a new wing from Pulsar?" Getting major KIS TR-1 / Sport 150 composite parts from the people now left at Pulsar in El Salvador is going to be a very dicey proposition. OC From: "BlueSkyFlier" Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 12:27 PM Subject: KIS-List: Re: TR-1 Spar Repair Choice m> > > Thanks Galin. That's why this forum is so great. There is always someone who can separate the wheat from the chaf :o) > > It is clear that Pulsar is bluffing with the SP100 then - now that makes me wonder ... > > Having been to the factory Galin -- do you think it is worth me spending any time pursuing a new wing from Pulsar? Hard question I know, but lay it out as you think fit - via private mail if you prefer. > > At least it could help me to ask the right questions when I speak to them again. No names no pack drill of course. > > Regards, >- - - - - - Alfred > > -------- > _________________________________________ > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337217#337217 le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:54:15 AM PST US From: Richard Trickel Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge Al The hinge recess is deep enough that you could put the nuts on the top. (Sh ort Screws)- I then covered the rest of the hing well-with a plate glue with silicon after painting --- On Mon, 4/18/11, Scott Stearns wrote: From: Scott Stearns Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge I would sit in the airplane and see if you head actually comes close fasten ers.- I thought it would be a problem in my airplane, but I've never had a problem.- The thin nuts with a thin washer are less than 1/4 inch thick .. - Scott --- On Mon, 4/18/11, ALFRED ROSA wrote: From: ALFRED ROSA Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge I think I'll make access covers to the hinges to be able to get at the nuts . -4 countersunk 8/32 screws could hold the access covers to the fuselage top. Moulding fiberglass to the exact contour would be easy using the fuselage t op as a mold. -It sounds like a plan. Al On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Scott Stearns wrote : You can also use shear nuts which-are half the thickness of standard nuts .- That's what I used.- - I also sandwiched the hinge between two peices of 1/16" phenolic and bonded it into the fuselage.- Than you can pull off the door and have a slot to slip the hinges into.- I drilled down through the sandwich with the door exactly where I wanted it and used countersunk-bolts and thin nuts on th e inside. - Scott --- On Mon, 4/18/11, bakerocb@cox.net wrote: From: bakerocb@cox.net Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge a@gmail.com> 4/18/2011 - Hello Alfred, You wrote: - 1) "....--my head almost reaches the ceiling. The last thing I need are bolts or nuts protruding down from the cockpit ceiling." - Yes, the seat-to-head ceiling clearance-in my KIS TR-1 is also very margi nal and the top band of the headset sticking up aggravates the problem. It turns out though that the location of the inside nuts on the screws holding the fuselage-end of the hinges is such that they are very rarely a facto r in head contact. - 2) ".... put the nuts on the outside and bury them with micro flox...? - That should work provided that the nuts don't stick up so far that they mak e a bump on the fuselage finish. Also consider that someday someone may wan t to remove the fuselage end of the hinges by unscrewing the machine screws holding them in place. - 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." - ======== ----- Original Message ----- From: ALFRED ROSA Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:08 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 5:35 PM, wrote: 4/17/2011 The inside-ceiling end of the screws are fastened with nylon insert stop nuts and the extended screw ends cut and filed off to avoid banging into th e heads of occupants. With my Mazda Miata seats my head almost reaches the ceiling. -The last t hing I need are bolts or nuts protruding down from the cockpit ceiling. I might use 10/32 flat head machine screws with tinnerman washers on the in side and put the nuts on the outside and bury them with micro flox. Al =nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:07:24 PM PST US From: Richard Trickel Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Longtudinal Stability of KIS TR-1 The longitude stability on the plane is pretty good.- It was tested out b y many pilots and satisfied FAA requirements in test by Dave Morse. (Test P ilot) Actual technical information I don`t know.- That was a long time ag o.--I always though the netural point of mac was the most aft CG locati on some where around 31%.- But rember I am not an engineer.-- Scott/M ark some help here.- The LAA (PFA) made a statement that the plane was no t stable- based on what results.- This is the same outfit that would no t license a Cruiser which has 4 seats.- It was only licensed as a two sea ter. These are the experts there.- I paid a lot of money for extra docume ntation for them for nothing.- --- On Sun, 4/17/11, Scott Stearns wrote: From: Scott Stearns Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Longtudinal Stability of KIS TR-1 Martin Hollmann did the basic structural sizing.--Vance did some engine ering and wrote the manuals.- Some of the metal-parts were copied from the first generation lancairs as I remember. - My impression-is that-the aerodynamic design was basically doing what l ooked right, which can be surprisingly effective-with a conventional airp lane like we have.- - - Scott --- On Sat, 4/16/11, Larry David wrote: From: Larry David Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Longtudinal Stability of KIS TR-1 I believe Vance Jaqua was involved.- Unfortunately, he passed away a couple of years ago.- I can guarantee that if he were still alive, he would have loved being involved in these discussions. Larry On 4/16/2011 2:08 PM, BlueSkyFlier wrote: > -->- KIS-List message posted by: "BlueSkyFlier" > > Does anyone know who originally did the aerodynamic design of the KIS air frame? > > And how to get hold of him of course :o) > > Thanks, >- - - - - ---Alfred > > -------- > _________________________________________ > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337149#337149 > > &g://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List" sp;--> http://f=- - - - - ---- List Contributionsp; - - - - - - - - - - &bsp;--> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.