---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 04/21/11: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:42 AM - Re: Door hinge (Keith.Miller@esa.int) 2. 11:24 AM - Re: Door hinge (ALFRED ROSA) 3. 02:39 PM - Re: alfred (BlueSkyFlier) 4. 03:15 PM - Re: Re: alfred (Galin Hernandez) 5. 04:23 PM - Cruiser door hinges (ALFRED ROSA) 6. 07:21 PM - Re: Cruiser door hinges (Mark Kettering) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:42:12 AM PST US Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge From: Keith.Miller@esa.int I went for the KIS approach , make a 2 " square plate out of 1/4"aluminium (or large enough) to go on the inside of the cockpit and screw tap 4 holes corresponding to the holes in the hinge plate and dont bother with the nuts at all . simple , safe to the head , neat and actually helps when installing the doors if i get up to the airfield i will take a picture . keith From: ALFRED ROSA To: kis-list@matronics.com Date: 18/04/2011 19:28 Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com I think I'll make access covers to the hinges to be able to get at the nuts. 4 countersunk 8/32 screws could hold the access covers to the fuselage top. Moulding fiberglass to the exact contour would be easy using the fuselage top as a mold. It sounds like a plan. Al On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Scott Stearns wrote: You can also use shear nuts whichare half the thickness of standard nuts. That's what I used. I also sandwiched the hinge between two peices of 1/16" phenolic and bonded it into the fuselage. Than you can pull off the door and have a slot to slip the hinges into. I drilled down through the sandwich with the door exactly where I wanted it and used countersunkbolts and thin nuts on the inside. Scott --- On Mon, 4/18/11, bakerocb@cox.net wrote: From: bakerocb@cox.net Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge To: "KIS-LIST, MATRONICS" , "ALFRED ROSA" Date: Monday, April 18, 2011, 4:27 AM 4/18/2011 Hello Alfred, You wrote: 1) "....my head almost reaches the ceiling. The last thing I need are bolts or nuts protruding down from the cockpit ceiling." Yes, the seat-to-head ceiling clearancein my KIS TR-1 is also very marginal and the top band of the headset sticking up aggravates the problem. It turns out though that the location of the inside nuts on the screws holding the fuselageend of the hinges is such that they are very rarely a factor in head contact. 2) ".... put the nuts on the outside and bury them with micro flox...? That should work provided that the nuts don't stick up so far that they make a bump on the fuselage finish. Also consider that someday someone may want to remove the fuselage end of the hinges by unscrewing the machine screws holding them in place. 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." ================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: ALFRED ROSA To: bakerocb@cox.net Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:08 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 5:35 PM, wrote: 4/17/2011 The insideceiling end of the screws are fastened with nylon insert stop nuts and the extended screw ends cut and filed off to avoid banging into the heads of occupants. With my Mazda Miata seats my head almost reaches the ceiling. The last thing I need are bolts or nuts protruding down from the cockpit ceiling. I might use 10/32 flat head machine screws with tinnerman washers on the inside and put the nuts on the outside and bury them with micro flox. Al =nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:24:36 AM PST US Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge From: ALFRED ROSA Kieth, You still have a 1/4" intrusion into the cockpit head room, and threaded aluminum is not the strongest nut plate. I've decided to use 4- 10x32 flat head machine screws with tinnerman washers in the cockpit ceiling and bury the nut ends in a dry micro which will seal the area and follow the roof contour. If, in the future someone (not me) wants to remove the hinge, it can be chiseled out of the micro (not too difficult if the micro was applied dry). Thanks for the suggestion. Al On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 7:52 AM, wrote: > > I went for the KIS approach , make a 2 " square plate out of 1/4"aluminium > (or large enough) to go on the inside of the cockpit and screw tap 4 > holes corresponding to the holes in the hinge plate and dont bother with > the nuts at all . simple , safe to the head , neat and actually helps > when > installing the doors > > if i get up to the airfield i will take a picture . > > keith > > > From: ALFRED ROSA > > To: kis-list@matronics.com > > Date: 18/04/2011 19:28 > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge > > Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com > > > I think I'll make access covers to the hinges to be able to get at the > nuts. 4 countersunk 8/32 screws could hold the access covers to the > fuselage > top. > Moulding fiberglass to the exact contour would be easy using the fuselage > top > as a mold. It sounds like a plan. > > Al > > > On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Scott Stearns > wrote: > > You can also use shear nuts which are half the thickness of standard > nuts. That's what I used. > > I also sandwiched the hinge between two peices of 1/16" phenolic and > bonded it into the fuselage. Than you can pull off the door and have a > slot to slip the hinges into. I drilled down through the sandwich with > the door exactly where I wanted it and used countersunk bolts and > thin nuts on the inside. > > Scott > > --- On Mon, 4/18/11, bakerocb@cox.net wrote: > > From: bakerocb@cox.net > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge > To: "KIS-LIST, MATRONICS" , "ALFRED ROSA" < > fredorosa@gmail.com> > Date: Monday, April 18, 2011, 4:27 AM > > 4/18/2011 > > Hello Alfred, You wrote: > > 1) ".... my head almost reaches the ceiling. The last thing I need are > bolts or nuts protruding down from the cockpit ceiling." > > Yes, the seat-to-head ceiling clearance in my KIS TR-1 is also very > marginal and the top band of the headset sticking up aggravates the > problem. It turns out though that the location of the inside nuts on the > screws holding the fuselage end of the hinges is such that they > are very rarely a factor in head contact. > > 2) ".... put the nuts on the outside and bury them with micro flox...? > > That should work provided that the nuts don't stick up so far that they > make a bump on the fuselage finish. Also consider that someday > someone may want to remove the fuselage end of the hinges by unscrewing > the machine screws holding them in place. > > 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort > to gather and understand knowledge." > > ================================= > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ALFRED ROSA > To: bakerocb@cox.net > Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:08 PM > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Door hinge > > > On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 5:35 PM, wrote: > 4/17/2011 > The inside ceiling end of the screws are fastened with nylon insert stop > nuts and the extended screw ends cut and filed off to avoid > banging into the heads of occupants. > > > With my Mazda Miata seats my head almost reaches the ceiling. The last > thing I need are bolts or nuts protruding down from the cockpit > ceiling. > I might use 10/32 flat head machine screws with tinnerman washers on the > inside and put the nuts on the outside and bury them with micro > flox. > > Al > > > =nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com > llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:39:33 PM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Re: alfred From: "BlueSkyFlier" Bo poiny in testing the wing Rich. Composite experts from the sailplanes community have confirmed that the spar cap is compromised and the LAA will never approve use of that wing again (unless I spend the price of a plane on repairing it - doesn't make financial sense) The effect of the "down spring" could be trimmed out at any given constant speed, but the trim then obviously changed with speed. That's why I rendered it ineffective. Can't make semse of what imaginary problem that was supposed to resolve. Doesn't matter anymore anyway :o) Drove up to Scotland today to look at another KIS tomorrow. Hope to make the choice of what to buy next week. Contenders are PA28 (high gross & 150hp), CT2K and KIS TR-1. All have their pros and cons, so it will be a weighted criteria decision in the end. -------- _________________________________________ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337731#337731 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:15:47 PM PST US From: Galin Hernandez Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: alfred Good luck! On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 4:37 PM, BlueSkyFlier wrote: > > > > Bo poiny in testing the wing Rich. Composite experts from the sailplanes > community have confirmed that the spar cap is compromised and the LAA will > never approve use of that wing again (unless I spend the price of a plane on > repairing it - doesn't make financial sense) > > The effect of the "down spring" could be trimmed out at any given constant > speed, but the trim then obviously changed with speed. That's why I rendered > it ineffective. Can't make semse of what imaginary problem that was > supposed to resolve. Doesn't matter anymore anyway :o) > > Drove up to Scotland today to look at another KIS tomorrow. Hope to make > the choice of what to buy next week. Contenders are PA28 (high gross & > 150hp), CT2K and KIS TR-1. All have their pros and cons, so it will be a > weighted criteria decision in the end. > > -------- > _________________________________________ > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337731#337731 > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:23:53 PM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Cruiser door hinges From: ALFRED ROSA What is the correct orientation of the door hinge? Short side on door and long side on fuselage or vice versa? It fits the recesses better with long side on fuselage and short side on door but I wonder if that would not provide the door with enough clearance of the fuselage top. Need answer to proceed. Al ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:13 PM PST US From: Mark Kettering Subject: Re: KIS-List: Cruiser door hinges You are correct, you need the long side on the doors for clearance. -----Original Message----- From: ALFRED ROSA Sent: Apr 21, 2011 7:15 PM Subject: KIS-List: Cruiser door hinges What is the correct orientation of the door hinge? Short side on door and long side on fuselage or vice versa? It fits the recesses better with long side on fuselage and short side on door but I wonder if that would not provide the door with enough clearance of the fuselage top. Need answer to proceed. 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