KIS-List Digest Archive

Sat 07/30/11


Total Messages Posted: 8



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:12 PM - Tail Mod??? (Galin Hernandez)
     2. 02:38 PM - 2011 Caribbean Holiday Trip (Galin Hernandez)
     3. 04:34 PM - Re: Tail Mod??? (tmclam@comcast.net)
     4. 05:59 PM - Re: Tail Mod??? (Robert Reed)
     5. 07:32 PM - Re: Tail Mod??? (jerzy krasinski)
     6. 07:46 PM - Re: Tail Mod??? (Galin Hernandez)
     7. 08:11 PM - Re: Tail Mod??? (Robert Reed)
     8. 09:14 PM - Re: Tail Mod??? (Robert Reed)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 02:12:21 PM PST US
    From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
    Subject: Tail Mod???
    All; I find that even with the VG's, I run out of up trim as I am approaching to land. If I want to approach at an IAS of less than 90Kts I have to have full up trim and hold some back pressure on the stick. I want to be able to trim hands off for at least 75KIAS and then add back pressure for the flare. So I am thinking about making a modification to the tail and am wondering if any of you have done something similar. I am thinking of adding about 1 - 1 1/2" to the rear of the tail to include the trim tab. Has anybody done or looked into doing this to the standard tail? If so, how did you do it and what were the results? I added a "drawing" of what I am contemplating. The gray parts are what I am thinking of adding. No funny remarks about the "drawing" since I am not a Picasso. :o) THANKS! Galin [image: Horiz Stab Mod.JPG]


    Message 2


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    Time: 02:38:09 PM PST US
    From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
    Subject: 2011 Caribbean Holiday Trip
    All; Last year we (Us in our KIS Cruiser and a friend in his CTLS Light Sport Airplane) took a Caribbean Holiday trip with our airplanes and had a BLAST! We enjoyed the week long flying trip so much we decided right then to do it again in 2011. So we are in the planning stages for this years trip. I want to invite anybody that want to join us this year for an unforgetable flying trip. We will depart the Miami Florida area (Tamiami or Homestead) on December 9 and return on December 18th. If you join us you are NOT committed to these dates and can travel whenever you want during this time frame. These are the dates we (Anthony in the CTLS & I in my TR-4) will be travelling and will escort whoever is flying those dates. Our tentrative plan is to maybe spend a day or two in the Bahamas, the Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico and maybe even the US Virgin Islands. This way we get away from the cold weather for a while. It looks like there are already 5 crews/airplanes that are going to make the trip this year and several others are very interested in joining. We have made contact with the governments of the Bahamas, Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico about this 2nd annual treip and they are very interested in providing support for whoever is in the trip. They have offered to sponsor a dinner, provide transportation and special hotel rates for us if we stay a night or two in their country. We will be charging a small amount for those that join to cover some expenses but the charges will not be applied to ANY KIS (TR-1 or TR-4) aircraft making the trip. Hey, I make the rules on this one. There will be some charges we can't avoid (Landing fees, overflight fees, parking, fuel, charts, etc) but nothing else. If you are interested in maybe joining us, send me an e-mail and we can try to make it work. Flying in the Caribbean during December, it doesn't get much better! :o) Galin N819PR


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:34:46 PM PST US
    From: tmclam@comcast.net
    Subject: Re: Tail Mod???
    Galin/Before you get into any surgery, accurately recheck your Weight and B alance.If she is nose heavy some Lead aft may be a simpler solution. =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2- Ted=C2- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galin Hernandez" <galinhdz@gmail.com> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 5:11:43 PM Subject: KIS-List: Tail Mod??? All; =C2- I find that even with the VG's, I run out of up trim as I am approaching to land. If I want to approach at an IAS of less than 90Kts I have to have fu ll up trim and hold some back pressure on the stick. I want to be able to t rim hands off for at least 75KIAS and then=C2-add=C2-back pressure for the flare. So I am thinking about making a modification to the tail and am wondering if any of you have done something similar. =C2- I am thinking of adding about 1 - 1 1/2" to the=C2-rear of the tail to in clude the trim tab. Has=C2-anybody done or looked into doing this=C2-to the standard tail? If so, how did you do it and what were the results? I a dded a "drawing" of what I am contemplating. The gray parts are what I am t hinking of adding. No funny remarks about the "drawing" since I am not a Pi casso. :o) =C2- THANKS! =C2- Galin =C2- Horiz Stab Mod.JPG


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:59:00 PM PST US
    From: Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net>
    Subject: Re: Tail Mod???


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:32:13 PM PST US
    From: jerzy krasinski <jerzy_krasinski@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Tail Mod???
    I have extended the elevator by approximately 1.5". I have heard many comme nts =0Athat this might be a bad idea making the plane too sensitive to the elevator, =0Abut nothing like this has happened, the plane is very docile, but the forces for =0Athe elerons and the elevator are now comparable.- =0ANow,-I have much more effective elevator allowing me to hold the nose up longer =0Aon landing. In fact I am considering adding another inch to th e elevator.=0A=0AChecking the Weight and Balance is a good idea no matter i f you are going to =0Aextend the elevator or not.=0A=0AJerzy=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________=0AFrom: "tmclam@comcast.net" <tmclam@comca st.net>=0ATo: kis-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sat, July 30, 2011 6:34:26 PM =0ASubject: Re: KIS-List: Tail Mod???=0A=0A=0AGalin/Before you get into any surgery, accurately recheck your Weight and =0ABalance.If she is nose heav y some Lead aft may be a simpler solution.=0A---------- ------------------------- ------------------------- ------------------------- ------------------------- ------------------------- ------------------------- ------------------------- ------=0A Ted-=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A=0A From: "Galin Hernandez" <galinhdz@gmail.com>=0ATo: kis-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 5:11:43 PM=0ASubject: KIS-List: Tail Mod?? ?=0A=0A=0AAll;=0A=0AI find that even with the VG's, I run out of up trim as I am approaching to =0Aland. If I want to approach at an IAS of less than 90Kts I have to have full up =0Atrim and hold some back pressure on the sti ck. I want to be able to trim hands =0Aoff for at least 75KIAS and then-a dd-back pressure for the flare. So I am =0Athinking about making a modifi cation to the tail and am wondering if any of you =0Ahave done something si milar.=0A=0AI am thinking of adding about 1 - 1 1/2" to the-rear of the t ail to include the =0Atrim tab. Has-anybody done or looked into doing thi s-to the standard tail? If =0Aso, how did you do it and what were the res ults? I added a "drawing" of what I =0Aam contemplating. The gray parts are what I am thinking of adding. No funny =0Aremarks about the "drawing" sinc e I am not a Picasso. :o)=0A=0ATHANKS!=0A=0AGalin=0A


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:46:21 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Tail Mod???
    From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
    THANKS for the quick reply. I did a complete W&B back when I first started to tackle this issue. The airplane W&B is very well within the envelope during all phases of flight. It is actually a tiny bit aft so I really don't want to move it any further aft than it already is. That is why I first started with the VG's and they made a big difference. But it still needs a bit more nose up authority at slow speeds. Jerzy, do you have VG's on your elevator or just the additional 1.5"? Also, did you extend the entire elevator to include the trim tab? Galin On Saturday, July 30, 2011, jerzy krasinski <jerzy_krasinski@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > I have extended the elevator by approximately 1.5". I have heard many comments that this might be a bad idea making the plane too sensitive to the elevator, but nothing like this has happened, the plane is very docile, but the forces for the elerons and the elevator are now comparable. > Now, I have much more effective elevator allowing me to hold the nose up longer on landing. In fact I am considering adding another inch to the elevator. > > Checking the Weight and Balance is a good idea no matter if you are going to extend the elevator or not. > > Jerzy > > ________________________________ > From: "tmclam@comcast.net" <tmclam@comcast.net> > To: kis-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sat, July 30, 2011 6:34:26 PM > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Tail Mod??? > > Galin/Before you get into any surgery, accurately recheck your Weight and Balance.If she is nose heavy some Lead aft may be a simpler solution. > > &nbs p; Ted > > ________________________________ > > From: "Galin Hernandez" <galinhdz@gmail.com> > To: kis-list@matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 5:11:43 PM > Subject: KIS-List: Tail Mod??? > > All; > > I find that even with the VG's, I run out of up trim as I am approaching to land. If I want to approach at an IAS of less than 90Kts I have to have full up trim and hold some back pressure on the stick. I want to be able to trim hands off for at least 75KIAS and then add back pressure for the flare. So I am thinking about making a modification to the tail and am wondering if any of you have done something similar. > > I am thinking of adding about 1 - 1 1/2" to the rear of the tail to include the trim tab. Has anybody done or looked into doing this to the standard tail? If so, how did you do it and what were the results? I added a "drawing" of what I am contemplating. The gray parts are what I am thinking of adding. No funny remarks about the "drawing" since I am not a Picasso. :o) > > THANKS! > > Galin > > </mail/s/?view=att&th=1317e09a3a354655&attid=0.1.1&disp=emb&zw>


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:11:04 PM PST US
    From: Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net>
    Subject: Re: Tail Mod???


    Message 8


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    Time: 09:14:43 PM PST US
    From: Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net>
    Subject: Re: Tail Mod???
    This is pissing me off. I have replied twice using my PC and both ended up with no message. I don't know what the problem is but it is really frustrating. Galin: check on my website under the Tips & Tricks button for Elevator Extension for two examples of exactly what you are proposing. Bill Shertz's mod shows good detail of a solution to one issue regarding the additional counter balance weight. Al's use of carbon fiber would help reduce weight. By the way, I think I know someone in Big-D area that has some glasswork experience who could be bribed into helping. Bob Reed Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2011, at 10:10 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote: >




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