---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 05/14/12: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:19 AM - KIS Cruiser FOR SALE very soon (bakerocb) 2. 08:03 AM - Re: KIS 150 (bakerocb) 3. 08:50 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser FOR SALE very soon (ted) 4. 06:00 PM - Re: KIS 150 (Scott Stearns) 5. 09:15 PM - Re: KIS Cruiser FOR SALE very soon (Scott Stearns) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:30 AM PST US From: "bakerocb" Subject: KIS-List: KIS Cruiser FOR SALE very soon 5/14/2012 Hello Scott, Thanks for your input. You wrote: "I would build a cruiser as a taildragger if it were the same amount of work." I had written: "... but a 4 place airplane -- does not make sense." and "I wonder what the last 4 place commercially available tail dragger airplane might have been." What you say about drag, weight, etc. is true about the relative merits of a tail dragger versus tricycle gear airplane. When I wrote my comments about converting the Cruiser kit to a tail dragger in my mind I had completely dismissed the whole category of what might be called "bush planes" (Maule, Bearhawk, etc."). Maybe it is because I just don't consider the KIS family of airplanes suitable for short / rough field operations. There is nothing wrong or bad about that, it is just a fundamental design characteristic. I know that some KIS TR-1 builder / pilots make some very optimistic claims about the short field operations of the airplane, but it is not one of the real strengths of that plane and I believe that the 4 place Cruiser would share those same characteristics. Recall the crash down in Florida of the Super Cruiser that Bill Grote built when the pilot could not get the plane down and stopped on a normal runway. 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." ================================================================= Time: 11:00:47 PM PST US From: Scott Stearns Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Cruiser FOR SALE very soon I would build a cruiser as a taildragger if it were the same amount of work. Check out the price of a cessna 180 compared to a 182. Look at the weight and drag of a nose gear compared to a tailwheel for instance. Scott ========================================================== On May 13, 2012, at 8:29 PM, "bakerocb" wrote: > 5/13/2012 > > Hello Cody, Some one actually converted the 4 place Cruiser kit into a tai l dragger? That does not make much sense. I can understand someone wanting a more sporty 2 place airplane and making a KIS TR-1 into a tail dragger, but a 4 place airplane -- does not make sense. > > I wonder what the last 4 place commercially available tail dragger airplan e might have been. > > 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort t o gather and understand knowledge." ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:05 AM PST US From: "bakerocb" Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS 150 5/14/2012 Hello Scott, What model of Lycoming engine would that be? Surely it could not be a 6 cylinder O-540? 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." ================================================ From: "Scott Stearns" Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 2:00 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS 150 > > regarding 2)... there is one guy flying a TR-1C with a 220 HP lycoming. > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:50:22 AM PST US From: "ted" Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Cruiser FOR SALE very soon I HAVE A FAST BUILD KIT WITH A NEW FUEL INJECTED MATTITUCK XP360 ENGINE WITH THE AEROSANCE FADEC SYSTEM THAT COST $30,000.00 THAT IS ABOUT 65 % COMPLETED. SOME AVIONOICE AND SOME INSTRUMENTS PLUS MANY ATHER PARTS AND EQUIPMENTTHAT I WILL SELL FOR $42,000.00 IF INTERESTED I CAN SEND SOME PHOTOS.TED SCOTT PHONE 731 247 5643 ----- Original Message ----- From: Galin Hernandez To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:53 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Cruiser FOR SALE very soon Barry; Do you know where is this kit located? I know several persons that might be interested in buying a cruiser kit. Also, I heard through some contact in El Salvador that a group of investors is interested in buying PULSAR and getting it running again. It will depend if the El Salvador government auctions off PULSAR and all its assets. If so, they are going to see if they can put in a winning bid and try to make it work. BUt they are only interested if they can get the assets at a good price. These guys are very successful Salvadoran businessmen with enough assets to have a good shot at making it work. They are more interested in the 4 seat Cruiser than any of the other designs but will be doing whatever makes most business sense. Lets keep our fingers crossed. Galin N819PR On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 7:40 AM, Bill Schertz wrote: Barry, Can you update us on the status of this KIS kit your EAA chapter received? Who bought it? Who was the original builder/owner, is the new owner (if any) on the list? Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS Phase one testing Completed 71 hours and counting From: Barry Davis Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:23 PM To: kis-list@matronics.com Subject: KIS-List: KIS Cruiser FOR SALE very soon Our EAA Chapter is recieving a complete KIS Cruiser kit that is partialy completed. We will be selling this as soon as the paperwork is completed. Any idea what the value is? Looks fairly complete, but has no engine. Get ready to make an offer. Barry Davis Carrollton, Ga. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?KIS-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:00:13 PM PST US From: Scott Stearns Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS 150 The engine is a parallel valve 360, with silverhawk (bendix) fuel injection, 10:1 forged pistons, cnc ported heads, and electronic ignition (Pmags), and a tuned length 4:1 exhaust, and some ceramic and teflon coatings here and there. The best pull on the test cell was 226 HP without the tuned exhaust. It is a great running engine. Lycoming should build them this way. I usually dont run it over 25 in MP which is roughly 180 HP and normal cruise is 20 in MP. The real benefit is power and efficiency at altitude. At 12500 wide open (20 in MP) it will do 190 KTAS at 2800 rpm and 9.5 gph or 180 KTAS at 2700 rpm leaned to 8.5 gph. The hot and high performance is great. It is really a bit much for the airframe. Solo with half fuel it is about the same power to weight as a WWII mustang. It is a taildragger and it will put you in the weeds for sure if you are not careful with the power on takeoff. A 320 built the same way would be the perfect engine for the TR-1 giving about 190 HP. The TR-4 should have a parallel valve 540 built the same way in my opinion. 320-330 HP. Hopefully there will be an example one day. Scott On May 14, 2012, at 8:02 AM, "bakerocb" wrote: > > 5/14/2012 > > Hello Scott, What model of Lycoming engine would that be? Surely it could not be a 6 cylinder O-540? > > 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." > > ================================================ > From: "Scott Stearns" > To: > Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 2:00 AM > Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS 150 > > >> >> regarding 2)... there is one guy flying a TR-1C with a 220 HP lycoming. >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:15:49 PM PST US From: Scott Stearns Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Cruiser FOR SALE very soon Hi OC, I agree that the KIS planes are not great short or rough field airplanes. Still part of my airplane fantasy is landing on nice grass or dirt runways in idaho, montana, etc, but nothing short rough or off airport like a cessna 180 can handle. BTW, check out the TV show Flying Wild Alaska on netflix. Great footage. Scott On May 14, 2012, at 5:19 AM, "bakerocb" wrote: > > 5/14/2012 > > Hello Scott, Thanks for your input. You wrote: "I would build a cruiser as a taildragger if it were the same amount of work." > > I had written: > > "... but a 4 place airplane -- does not make sense." > > and > > "I wonder what the last 4 place commercially available tail dragger airplane > might have been." > > What you say about drag, weight, etc. is true about the relative merits of a tail dragger versus tricycle gear airplane. > > When I wrote my comments about converting the Cruiser kit to a tail dragger in my mind I had completely dismissed the whole category of what might be called "bush planes" (Maule, Bearhawk, etc."). Maybe it is because I just don't consider the KIS family of airplanes suitable for short / rough field operations. There is nothing wrong or bad about that, it is just a fundamental design characteristic. > > I know that some KIS TR-1 builder / pilots make some very optimistic claims about the short field operations of the airplane, but it is not one of the real strengths of that plane and I believe that the 4 place Cruiser would share those same characteristics. Recall the crash down in Florida of the Super Cruiser that Bill Grote built when the pilot could not get the plane down and stopped on a normal runway. > > 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." > > ================================================================= > > Time: 11:00:47 PM PST US > From: Scott Stearns > Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Cruiser FOR SALE very soon > > I would build a cruiser as a taildragger if it were the same amount of work. > Check out the price of a cessna 180 compared to a 182. Look at the weight > and drag of a nose gear compared to a tailwheel for instance. > > Scott > > ========================================================== > > On May 13, 2012, at 8:29 PM, "bakerocb" wrote: > >> 5/13/2012 >> >> Hello Cody, Some one actually converted the 4 place Cruiser kit into a tai > l dragger? That does not make much sense. I can understand someone wanting a > more sporty 2 place airplane and making a KIS TR-1 into a tail dragger, but > a 4 place airplane -- does not make sense. >> >> I wonder what the last 4 place commercially available tail dragger airplan > e might have been. >> >> 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort t > o gather and understand knowledge." > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.