Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:55 AM - Re: KIS-List (Graham Brighton)
2. 05:58 AM - Re: KIS-List (Rob)
3. 06:40 AM - IO-240 Starter (Owen Baker)
4. 07:21 AM - Re: KIS-List (Galin Hernandez)
5. 07:36 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List: IO-240 Starter (F. Tim Yoder)
6. 07:44 AM - Re: KIS-List (Bill Schertz)
7. 12:07 PM - Re: KIS-List (jerzy krasinski)
8. 03:03 PM - Re: KIS-List (Scott Stearns)
9. 03:09 PM - Re: IO-240 Starter (Scott Stearns)
10. 04:16 PM - Re: IO-240 Starter (F. Tim Yoder)
11. 05:15 PM - Re: KIS-List (Larry David)
12. 08:58 PM - Nose Wheel Torque (Galin Hernandez)
Message 1
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Galin,
Have only seen the masses of VERY mixed opinions of the
Eggenfellner set up ... Your friend should do LOTS of hmwork on this
idea . There was an entire Forum running, of dissatisfied Eggenfellners
owners who got together to try and get their FWF combos sorted ...!!
The challenge is to harness the advances of modern technology and apply
this to aviation use . Single lever engine control ... stable engine
temps through climb/decent ... ignition timing optimizing power and fuel
efficiency (knock control) ... are the main gains ...
The task involves three major items ..Engine .. ECU (engine computer)
... and the Redive ( gearing of engine speed to Prop speed .... The
three units of course have to work in concert ...sounds easy enough ..
But each one has its own index of special complexities ... and
marrying this up is the 'holy grail' ..that aero/auto folks strive for
... as yet its still an untamed beast and not suited to the faint
hearted ...!!!
Cheers
Graham
.
From: Galin Hernandez
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS-List
A friend of mine is thinking about buying an RV-9 with an
Eggenfelder/Subaru engine and I know some here have experience with this
set up. Is there anything he should be looking for or wary about with
this engine?
Galin
On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Graham Brighton
<gbrighton@skymesh.com.au> wrote:
<gbrighton@skymesh.com.au>
G'Day There Bill,
Great to see u have some hrs up now
with the Rotary ... us auto conversion guys are a bit out numbered here
..!! .... but how is everything working out ..cooling ...?..performance
.....? ...wondering which redrive did u go with ? .. did u use the
Tracey Cook ecu ..? ... are u turbo'd ..or na ..? sorry for all the
questions ..just interested thats all ..
Cheers
Graham Brighton
-
rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 2
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I don't believe that Eggenfelder is in business anymore so I would be
concerned about support etc. A friend of mine had an RV-7A with the
Eggenfelder package and he had the turbo version engine.
I went up with him once and it was very quiet and smooth though I
thought it used a bit more fuel for the speed we were flying vs a good
old Lyc. He later had a turbo malfunction while at sea level altitude
and the thing over pressurized the
engine and caused some damage. He had it up for sale and recommended
that anyone buying it should change out the engine for a Lyc.
On 7/7/2012 8:44 PM, Galin Hernandez wrote:
> A friend of mine is thinking about buying an RV-9 with an
> Eggenfelder/Subaru engine and I know some here have experience with
> this set up. Is there anything he should be looking for or wary about
> with this engine?
> Galin
>
> On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Graham Brighton
> <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au <mailto:gbrighton@skymesh.com.au>> wrote:
>
> <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au <mailto:gbrighton@skymesh.com.au>>
>
> G'Day There Bill,
> Great to see u have some hrs up now
> with the Rotary ... us auto conversion guys are a bit out numbered
> here ..!! .... but how is everything working out ..cooling
> ...?..performance .....? ...wondering which redrive did u go with
> ? .. did u use the Tracey Cook ecu ..? ... are u turbo'd ..or na
> ..? sorry for all the questions ..just interested thats all ..
>
> Cheers
> Graham Brighton
>
>
> -
>
> ===================================
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
> ===================================
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 3
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7/8/2012
Hello Tim, I was a bit surprised to read of your recent experience with
a TCM provided starter for the IO-240 engine. I thought that all of
those crappy TCM designed starters had long since failed and been purged
from the field.
That was a very ugly chapter in TCM=99s history when they tried to
screw Bill Bainbridge of B&C by reverse engineering one of his starters
when their original design proved to be a miserable failure. TCM was
eventually forced to buy and install B&C starters at the factory on new
engines being shipped. TCM agreed to pay for a B&C starter for my engine
for me to install when I refused to accept their designed starter that
had been shipped with my engine, IO-240 B9B Serial number 806236.
If anyone else is still operating a TCM designed starter on their IO-240
(it takes some detail part number sleuthing to determine that) I
strongly recommend switching to a B&C starter because the TCM designed
starter can fail in a manner that will foul up the interior of the
engine =93 big expense and some danger.
I have extensive postings on this subject in my files (and there are
probably also some in the Matronics archives) if anyone is interested in
reviewing that history.
OC
===========
Time: 09:31:00 PM PST US
From: "F. Tim Yoder" <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
Subject: KIS-List: IO-240 Starter
FYI for those who have this engine or a light weight TCM starter. Circa
1997.
My IO-240 came with a TCM starter, Part # 654046 E. It failed at 475
hours. I had been told by a TCM tech. that even though it had a Cont tag
on it, it was really made by B&C. I called B&C and made arrangements to
send it to them for repair. After they received it the called to advise
me that it was not one of theirs but a knockoff that Cont. had made. B&C
didn't think that Cont. would repair theirs anymore. I did not check
with Cont. because I decided I wanted one of B&C's. They sent me a new
one and my old one at no shipping charge. In a side by side comparison,
the B&C starter is much better built. There was a dramatic improvement
in prop rotation speed by the starter.
Tim
Message 4
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THANKS! I will pass this on to him so he can make a "informed" decision. I
am "old school" that still relies on engines designed for aircraft. I am
not an experimenter when it comes to engines.
Galin
On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:55 AM, Graham Brighton <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au>wrote:
> **
> Galin,
> Have only seen the masses of VERY mixed opinions of the
> Eggenfellner set up ... Your friend should do LOTS of hmwork on this idea .
> There was an entire Forum running, of dissatisfied Eggenfellners owners who
> got together to try and get their FWF combos sorted ...!! The challenge
> is to harness the advances of modern technology and apply this to aviation
> use . Single lever engine control ... stable engine temps through
> climb/decent ... ignition timing optimizing power and fuel efficiency
> (knock control) ... are the main gains ...
>
> The task involves three major items ..Engine .. ECU (engine computer)
> ... and the Redive ( gearing of engine speed to Prop speed .... The three
> units of course have to work in concert ...sounds easy enough
> .. But each one has its own index of special complexities ... and
> marrying this up is the 'holy grail' ..that aero/auto folks strive for
> ... as yet its still an untamed beast and not suited to the faint hearted
> ...!!!
>
> Cheers
>
> Graham
>
> .
>
> *From:* Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 08, 2012 1:44 PM
> *To:* kis-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: KIS-List
>
> A friend of mine is thinking about buying an RV-9 with an
> Eggenfelder/Subaru engine and I know some here have experience with this
> set up. Is there anything he should be looking for or wary about with this
> engine?
>
> Galin
>
> On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Graham Brighton <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au
> > wrote:
>
>> gbrighton@skymesh.com.au>
>>
>> G'Day There Bill,
>> Great to see u have some hrs up now with
>> the Rotary ... us auto conversion guys are a bit out numbered here ..!!
>> .... but how is everything working out ..cooling ...?..performance .....?
>> ...wondering which redrive did u go with ? .. did u use the Tracey Cook ecu
>> ..? ... are u turbo'd ..or na ..? sorry for all the questions ..just
>> interested thats all ..
>>
>> Cheers
>> Graham Brighton
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>> ====**==============================**=
>> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/**Navigator?KIS-List
>> ====**==============================**=
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ====**==============================**=
>>
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/**contribution
>> ====**==============================**=
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List: IO-240 Starter |
Hi OC,
Obviously TCM new they had put one of their junk starters on my engine
and didn't bother to make good on it. As I said before, they even told
me it was a B&C after I gave them the part# and serial#.
I must have come to the lists after your postings of the starter
reports. Maybe there are a few others that haven't herd of the problem
and this might help. Thanks to you and others, I have learned allot on
these lists.
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Owen Baker
To: ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com ; aeroelectric-list@matronics.com ;
KIS-LIST MATRONICS
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 6:40 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: IO-240 Starter
7/8/2012
Hello Tim, I was a bit surprised to read of your recent experience
with a TCM provided starter for the IO-240 engine. I thought that all of
those crappy TCM designed starters had long since failed and been purged
from the field.
That was a very ugly chapter in TCM=99s history when they tried
to screw Bill Bainbridge of B&C by reverse engineering one of his
starters when their original design proved to be a miserable failure.
TCM was eventually forced to buy and install B&C starters at the factory
on new engines being shipped. TCM agreed to pay for a B&C starter for my
engine for me to install when I refused to accept their designed starter
that had been shipped with my engine, IO-240 B9B Serial number 806236.
If anyone else is still operating a TCM designed starter on their
IO-240 (it takes some detail part number sleuthing to determine that) I
strongly recommend switching to a B&C starter because the TCM designed
starter can fail in a manner that will foul up the interior of the
engine =93 big expense and some danger.
I have extensive postings on this subject in my files (and there are
probably also some in the Matronics archives) if anyone is interested in
reviewing that history.
OC
===========
Time: 09:31:00 PM PST US
From: "F. Tim Yoder" <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
Subject: KIS-List: IO-240 Starter
FYI for those who have this engine or a light weight TCM starter.
Circa
1997.
My IO-240 came with a TCM starter, Part # 654046 E. It failed at 475
hours. I had been told by a TCM tech. that even though it had a Cont
tag
on it, it was really made by B&C. I called B&C and made arrangements
to
send it to them for repair. After they received it the called to
advise
me that it was not one of theirs but a knockoff that Cont. had made.
B&C
didn't think that Cont. would repair theirs anymore. I did not check
with Cont. because I decided I wanted one of B&C's. They sent me a new
one and my old one at no shipping charge. In a side by side
comparison,
the B&C starter is much better built. There was a dramatic improvement
in prop rotation speed by the starter.
Tim
Message 6
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Another thing to have him check is on the ECU, if the =98limp
home=99 mode has been disabled. KIS Tr-1 owner had a Subaru and it
went into =98limp home=99 mode when temps got high, and he
didn't have enough power to stay airborne and lost the plane.
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
Phase one testing Completed
From: Galin Hernandez
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS-List
THANKS! I will pass this on to him so he can make a "informed" decision.
I am "old school" that still relies on engines designed for aircraft. I
am not an experimenter when it comes to engines.
Galin
On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:55 AM, Graham Brighton
<gbrighton@skymesh.com.au> wrote:
Galin,
Have only seen the masses of VERY mixed opinions of the
Eggenfellner set up ... Your friend should do LOTS of hmwork on this
idea . There was an entire Forum running, of dissatisfied Eggenfellners
owners who got together to try and get their FWF combos sorted ...!!
The challenge is to harness the advances of modern technology and apply
this to aviation use . Single lever engine control ... stable engine
temps through climb/decent ... ignition timing optimizing power and fuel
efficiency (knock control) ... are the main gains ...
The task involves three major items ..Engine .. ECU (engine computer)
... and the Redive ( gearing of engine speed to Prop speed .... The
three units of course have to work in concert ...sounds easy enough ..
But each one has its own index of special complexities ... and
marrying this up is the 'holy grail' ..that aero/auto folks strive for
... as yet its still an untamed beast and not suited to the faint
hearted ...!!!
Cheers
Graham
.
From: Galin Hernandez
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 1:44 PM
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS-List
A friend of mine is thinking about buying an RV-9 with an
Eggenfelder/Subaru engine and I know some here have experience with this
set up. Is there anything he should be looking for or wary about with
this engine?
Galin
On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Graham Brighton
<gbrighton@skymesh.com.au> wrote:
<gbrighton@skymesh.com.au>
G'Day There Bill,
Great to see u have some hrs up now
with the Rotary ... us auto conversion guys are a bit out numbered here
..!! .... but how is everything working out ..cooling ...?..performance
.....? ...wondering which redrive did u go with ? .. did u use the
Tracey Cook ecu ..? ... are u turbo'd ..or na ..? sorry for all the
questions ..just interested thats all ..
Cheers
Graham Brighton
-
rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?KIS-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
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Message 7
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Galin,=0A=0AOne of my friends bought Subaru engine from Eggenfellner with a
plan to install =0Ait into his Glasair. The engine was advertised as top o
f the line, with =0Asupercharger and some other bells and whistles. =0A=0AS
oon the engine was discontinued and no support was provided.=0A=C2-Lets t
he buyer beware...=0A=0A=0A=0AJerzy=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=0A=0A_____________
___________________=0A=0AFrom: Bill Schertz <wschertz@comcast.net>=0ATo: ki
s-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sun, July 8, 2012 9:46:12 AM=0ASubject: Re: KI
S-List: KIS-List=0A=0AAnother thing to have him check is on the=C2- ECU,
if the =98limp home=99 mode has been =0Adisabled. KIS Tr-1 owne
r had a Subaru and it went into =98limp home=99 mode when =0Ate
mps got high, and he didn't have enough power to stay airborne and lost the
=0Aplane.=0A=0ABill Schertz=0AKIS Cruiser #4045=0AN343BS=0APhase one testi
ng Completed=0A=0AFrom: Galin Hernandez =0ASent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:20
AM=0ATo: kis-list@matronics.com =0ASubject: Re: KIS-List: KIS-List=0ATHANK
S! I will pass this on to him so he can make a "informed" decision. I am
=0A"old school" that still relies on engines designed for aircraft. I am no
t an =0Aexperimenter when it comes to engines.=0A=0AGalin =0A=0A=0AOn Sun,
Jul 8, 2012 at 7:55 AM, Graham Brighton <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au> =0Awrote
:=0A=0AGalin,=0A>=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
- Have only seen the masses of VERY mixed opinions of the Eggenfellner
=0A>set up ... Your friend should do LOTS of hmwork on this idea . There wa
s an =0A>entire Forum running, of dissatisfied Eggenfellners owners who got
together to =0A>try and get their FWF=C2- combos sorted ...!!=C2- The
challenge is to harness the =0A>advances of modern=C2- technology and app
ly this to aviation use . Single lever =0A>engine control ... stable engine
temps through climb/decent ... ignition timing =0A>optimizing power and fu
el efficiency=C2-=C2- (knock control) ... are the main gains =0A>...=0A
>=C2-=0A>The task involves three major items ..Engine .. ECU (engine comp
uter) ... and =0A>the Redive ( gearing of engine speed to Prop speed .... T
he three units of =0A>course have to work in concert ...sounds easy enough
=C2- ..=C2- But=C2- each one has its =0A>own index of special complex
ities=C2- ... and marrying this up is the 'holy grail' =0A>..that aero/au
to folks strive for ...=C2- as yet its still an untamed beast and not =0A
>suited to the faint hearted=C2- ...!!!=C2- =0A>=0A>=C2-=0A>Cheers=0A
>=C2-=0A>Graham =0A>=C2-=0A>.=0A>=0A>=0A>From: Galin Hernandez =0A>Sent
: Sunday, July 08, 2012 1:44 PM=0A>To: kis-list@matronics.com =0A>Subject:
Re: KIS-List: KIS-List=0A>=0A>=0A>A friend of mine is thinking about buying
an RV-9 with an Eggenfelder/Subaru =0A>engine and I know some here have ex
perience with this set up. Is there anything =0A>he should be looking for o
r wary about with this engine?=0A>=0A>Galin=0A>=0A>=0A>On Fri, Jul 6, 2012
at 12:46 AM, Graham Brighton <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au> =0A>wrote:=0A>=0A>-
=0A>>=0A>>G'Day There Bill,=0A>>=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Great to se
e u have some hrs up now with the =0A>>Rotary ... us auto conversion guys a
re a bit out numbered here ..!! .... but how =0A>>is everything working out
..cooling ...?..performance .....? ...wondering which =0A>>redrive did u g
o with ? .. did u use the Tracey Cook ecu ..? ... are u turbo'd =0A>>..or n
a ..?=C2- sorry for all the questions ..just interested thats all ..=0A>>
=0A>>Cheers=0A>>Graham Brighton=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>
>- =0A>>=0A>>=0A>>===================
==================0A>>rget="_blank">htt
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List=0A>>==========
==0A>>http://forums.matronics.com=0A>>===========
=0A>>=0A>>le, List Admin.=0A>>="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion=0A>>======================
===============0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A> =0A
>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?KIS-List=0A> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://foru
ms.matronics.com =0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
www.matronics.com/c =0A>=0A> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga
tor?KIS-List =0A>tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com
/contribution =0A>=0A=0A =0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KI
S-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List=0A href="http://forum
s.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com =0Ahref="http://www.matronic
=== =0A
Message 8
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In addition to the other issues mentioned the subaru is also significantly h
eavier than the lycoming for the same power. Check the empty weight and co
mpare it to lycoming powered rv-9s. The useful load may be pretty small. T
he RV website shows the -9 empty to be 1050 lbs with a lycoming 320. I woul
d be very interested to hear the empty weight on the subaru powered airplane
and what the fuel flow is at full throttle and full rpm so we can get an id
ea of how much power it makes. 160 HP is 13-14 gph.
I think a lycoming with 10:1 pistons and electronic ignition leaned for peak
EGT (which is basically what EFI does and is what lycoming recommends) is a
least at efficient as an auto conversion. Also most car engines will set t
he mixture to best power during wide open throttle which is not good for eff
icient cruise. I love EFI in my car but I prefer mechanical fuel injection w
ith manual mixture control in an airplane, but with electronic ignition.
My lycoming 360 with ported heads, 10:1 pistons, mechanical FI, and Pmag ele
ctronic ignition at full power and slightly leaned but still quite rich did 2
26 HP at an SFC of 0.434 lb/hr*HP on the test cell. Leaned for peak EGT at l
ower power I bet the SFC is close to 0.40 which not many car engines can bea
t at 60-70% power and none that can do 220+ HP at 2700 rpm and only weigh 30
0 lbs.
Anyhow, my point is that if your friend thinks an auto engine means a better
or more efficient airplane he will be disappointed. If he wants to tinker w
ith an interesting auto conversion then have at it.
Be sure the engine has the limp home mode disabled. Also be sure it has not
had auto fuel with ethanol in it. That can cause all kinds of wierd proble
ms.
Scott
On Jul 7, 2012, at 8:44 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
> A friend of mine is thinking about buying an RV-9 with an Eggenfelder/Suba
ru engine and I know some here have experience with this set up. Is there an
ything he should be looking for or wary about with this engine?
>
> Galin
>
> On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Graham Brighton <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au
> wrote:
u>
>
> G'Day There Bill,
> Great to see u have some hrs up now with th
e Rotary ... us auto conversion guys are a bit out numbered here ..!! .... b
ut how is everything working out ..cooling ...?..performance .....? ...wonde
ring which redrive did u go with ? .. did u use the Tracey Cook ecu ..? ... a
re u turbo'd ..or na ..? sorry for all the questions ..just interested that
s all ..
>
> Cheers
> Graham Brighton
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -
>
> =========================
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
> =========================
> http://forums.matronics.com
> =========================
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> =========================
>
>
>
>
>
>
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=========
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=========
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: IO-240 Starter |
I remember Rich having a problem with his starter and pulling it. Some ball
s from a bearing fell out as he was pulling it and he was never sure if any e
nded up in the engine.
My dad always said... no such thing as cheap airplane parts.
Scott
On Jul 8, 2012, at 6:40 AM, "Owen Baker " <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
> 7/8/2012
>
> Hello Tim, I was a bit surprised to read of your recent experience with a T
CM provided starter for the IO-240 engine. I thought that all of those crapp
y TCM designed starters had long since failed and been purged from the field
.
>
> That was a very ugly chapter in TCM=99s history when they tried to s
crew Bill Bainbridge of B&C by reverse engineering one of his starters when t
heir original design proved to be a miserable failure. TCM was eventually fo
rced to buy and install B&C starters at the factory on new engines being shi
pped. TCM agreed to pay for a B&C starter for my engine for me to install wh
en I refused to accept their designed starter that had been shipped with my e
ngine, IO-240 B9B Serial number 806236.
>
> If anyone else is still operating a TCM designed starter on their IO-240 (
it takes some detail part number sleuthing to determine that) I strongly rec
ommend switching to a B&C starter because the TCM designed starter can fail i
n a manner that will foul up the interior of the engine =93 big expens
e and some danger.
>
> I have extensive postings on this subject in my files (and there are proba
bly also some in the Matronics archives) if anyone is interested in reviewin
g that history.
>
> OC
> =========================
===========
>
> Time: 09:31:00 PM PST US
> From: "F. Tim Yoder" <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
> Subject: KIS-List: IO-240 Starter
>
> FYI for those who have this engine or a light weight TCM starter. Circa
> 1997.
>
> My IO-240 came with a TCM starter, Part # 654046 E. It failed at 475
> hours. I had been told by a TCM tech. that even though it had a Cont tag
> on it, it was really made by B&C. I called B&C and made arrangements to
> send it to them for repair. After they received it the called to advise
> me that it was not one of theirs but a knockoff that Cont. had made. B&C
> didn't think that Cont. would repair theirs anymore. I did not check
> with Cont. because I decided I wanted one of B&C's. They sent me a new
> one and my old one at no shipping charge. In a side by side comparison,
> the B&C starter is much better built. There was a dramatic improvement
> in prop rotation speed by the starter.
>
> Tim
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
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Subject: | Re: IO-240 Starter |
No one can afford "cheap airplane parts"! :-)
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Stearns
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: IO-240 Starter
I remember Rich having a problem with his starter and pulling it.
Some balls from a bearing fell out as he was pulling it and he was never
sure if any ended up in the engine.
My dad always said... no such thing as cheap airplane parts.
Scott
On Jul 8, 2012, at 6:40 AM, "Owen Baker " <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
7/8/2012
Hello Tim, I was a bit surprised to read of your recent experience
with a TCM provided starter for the IO-240 engine. I thought that all of
those crappy TCM designed starters had long since failed and been purged
from the field.
That was a very ugly chapter in TCM=99s history when they
tried to screw Bill Bainbridge of B&C by reverse engineering one of his
starters when their original design proved to be a miserable failure.
TCM was eventually forced to buy and install B&C starters at the factory
on new engines being shipped. TCM agreed to pay for a B&C starter for my
engine for me to install when I refused to accept their designed starter
that had been shipped with my engine, IO-240 B9B Serial number 806236.
If anyone else is still operating a TCM designed starter on their
IO-240 (it takes some detail part number sleuthing to determine that) I
strongly recommend switching to a B&C starter because the TCM designed
starter can fail in a manner that will foul up the interior of the
engine =93 big expense and some danger.
I have extensive postings on this subject in my files (and there are
probably also some in the Matronics archives) if anyone is interested in
reviewing that history.
OC
===========
Time: 09:31:00 PM PST US
From: "F. Tim Yoder" <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
Subject: KIS-List: IO-240 Starter
FYI for those who have this engine or a light weight TCM starter.
Circa
1997.
My IO-240 came with a TCM starter, Part # 654046 E. It failed at 475
hours. I had been told by a TCM tech. that even though it had a Cont
tag
on it, it was really made by B&C. I called B&C and made arrangements
to
send it to them for repair. After they received it the called to
advise
me that it was not one of theirs but a knockoff that Cont. had made.
B&C
didn't think that Cont. would repair theirs anymore. I did not check
with Cont. because I decided I wanted one of B&C's. They sent me a
new
one and my old one at no shipping charge. In a side by side
comparison,
the B&C starter is much better built. There was a dramatic
improvement
in prop rotation speed by the starter.
Tim
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?KIS-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
Message 11
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Limp home destroyed my plane and slightly damaged George Moore's plane.
The limp home problem will occur under a variety of conditions when the
ECU logic thinks the engine will be damaged. This feature is active
when the sensors think the "car" is in "neutral" or "park." The
solution is to simply ground the pins associated with "park" and
"neutral." There was an article in Contact Magazine in 2006 or 2007
explaining which pins needed to be grounded. I don't remember which
pins to ground so if anyone needs this information, they should search
the archives of Contact Magazine and get the right information.
Larry David
former KIS TR1 #45
On 7/8/2012 7:44 AM, Bill Schertz wrote:
> Another thing to have him check is on the ECU, if the limp home
> mode has been disabled. KIS Tr-1 owner had a Subaru and it went into
> limp home mode when temps got high, and he didn't have enough power
> to stay airborne and lost the plane.
> Bill Schertz
> KIS Cruiser #4045
> N343BS
> Phase one testing Completed
> *From:* Galin Hernandez <mailto:galinhdz@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:20 AM
> *To:* kis-list@matronics.com <mailto:kis-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: KIS-List
> THANKS! I will pass this on to him so he can make a "informed"
> decision. I am "old school" that still relies on engines designed for
> aircraft. I am not an experimenter when it comes to engines.
> Galin
>
> On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:55 AM, Graham Brighton
> <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au <mailto:gbrighton@skymesh.com.au>> wrote:
>
> Galin,
> Have only seen the masses of VERY mixed opinions of the
> Eggenfellner set up ... Your friend should do LOTS of hmwork on
> this idea . There was an entire Forum running, of dissatisfied
> Eggenfellners owners who got together to try and get their FWF
> combos sorted ...!! The challenge is to harness the advances of
> modern technology and apply this to aviation use . Single lever
> engine control ... stable engine temps through climb/decent ...
> ignition timing optimizing power and fuel efficiency (knock
> control) ... are the main gains ...
> The task involves three major items ..Engine .. ECU (engine
> computer) ... and the Redive ( gearing of engine speed to Prop
> speed .... The three units of course have to work in concert
> ...sounds easy enough .. But each one has its own index of
> special complexities ... and marrying this up is the 'holy grail'
> ..that aero/auto folks strive for ... as yet its still an untamed
> beast and not suited to the faint hearted ...!!!
> Cheers
> Graham
> .
> *From:* Galin Hernandez <mailto:galinhdz@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 08, 2012 1:44 PM
> *To:* kis-list@matronics.com <mailto:kis-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: KIS-List
> A friend of mine is thinking about buying an RV-9 with an
> Eggenfelder/Subaru engine and I know some here have experience
> with this set up. Is there anything he should be looking for or
> wary about with this engine?
> Galin
>
> On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Graham Brighton
> <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au <mailto:gbrighton@skymesh.com.au>> wrote:
>
> <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au <mailto:gbrighton@skymesh.com.au>>
>
> G'Day There Bill,
> Great to see u have some hrs up
> now with the Rotary ... us auto conversion guys are a bit out
> numbered here ..!! .... but how is everything working out
> ..cooling ...?..performance .....? ...wondering which redrive
> did u go with ? .. did u use the Tracey Cook ecu ..? ... are u
> turbo'd ..or na ..? sorry for all the questions ..just
> interested thats all ..
>
> Cheers
> Graham Brighton
>
>
> -
>
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Message 12
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Subject: | Nose Wheel Torque |
Has anybody had problems while torquing the nose gear friction bolt? I
sheared the pin holding the bolt and had to get a new bolt machined. But it
doesn't seem logical that the pin holding the bolt doesn't go all the way
through to the other side. Does anybody know if there is a reason why the
pin doesn't go all the way through the nose gear or can I drill the nose
gear so the pin holds in two places not just one? Also, is that a special
pin or would any rolled steel pin work?
Galin
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