KIS-List Digest Archive

Sun 07/08/12


Total Messages Posted: 12



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:55 AM - Re: KIS-List (Graham Brighton)
     2. 05:58 AM - Re: KIS-List (Rob)
     3. 06:40 AM - IO-240 Starter (Owen Baker)
     4. 07:21 AM - Re: KIS-List (Galin Hernandez)
     5. 07:36 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List: IO-240 Starter (F. Tim Yoder)
     6. 07:44 AM - Re: KIS-List (Bill Schertz)
     7. 12:07 PM - Re: KIS-List (jerzy krasinski)
     8. 03:03 PM - Re: KIS-List (Scott Stearns)
     9. 03:09 PM - Re: IO-240 Starter (Scott Stearns)
    10. 04:16 PM - Re: IO-240 Starter (F. Tim Yoder)
    11. 05:15 PM - Re: KIS-List (Larry David)
    12. 08:58 PM - Nose Wheel Torque (Galin Hernandez)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:55:51 AM PST US
    From: "Graham Brighton" <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au>
    Subject: Re: KIS-List
    Galin, Have only seen the masses of VERY mixed opinions of the Eggenfellner set up ... Your friend should do LOTS of hmwork on this idea . There was an entire Forum running, of dissatisfied Eggenfellners owners who got together to try and get their FWF combos sorted ...!! The challenge is to harness the advances of modern technology and apply this to aviation use . Single lever engine control ... stable engine temps through climb/decent ... ignition timing optimizing power and fuel efficiency (knock control) ... are the main gains ... The task involves three major items ..Engine .. ECU (engine computer) ... and the Redive ( gearing of engine speed to Prop speed .... The three units of course have to work in concert ...sounds easy enough .. But each one has its own index of special complexities ... and marrying this up is the 'holy grail' ..that aero/auto folks strive for ... as yet its still an untamed beast and not suited to the faint hearted ...!!! Cheers Graham . From: Galin Hernandez Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 1:44 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS-List A friend of mine is thinking about buying an RV-9 with an Eggenfelder/Subaru engine and I know some here have experience with this set up. Is there anything he should be looking for or wary about with this engine? Galin On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Graham Brighton <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au> wrote: <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au> G'Day There Bill, Great to see u have some hrs up now with the Rotary ... us auto conversion guys are a bit out numbered here ..!! .... but how is everything working out ..cooling ...?..performance .....? ...wondering which redrive did u go with ? .. did u use the Tracey Cook ecu ..? ... are u turbo'd ..or na ..? sorry for all the questions ..just interested thats all .. Cheers Graham Brighton - rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List http://forums.matronics.com le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:58:12 AM PST US
    From: Rob <punchy@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: KIS-List
    I don't believe that Eggenfelder is in business anymore so I would be concerned about support etc. A friend of mine had an RV-7A with the Eggenfelder package and he had the turbo version engine. I went up with him once and it was very quiet and smooth though I thought it used a bit more fuel for the speed we were flying vs a good old Lyc. He later had a turbo malfunction while at sea level altitude and the thing over pressurized the engine and caused some damage. He had it up for sale and recommended that anyone buying it should change out the engine for a Lyc. On 7/7/2012 8:44 PM, Galin Hernandez wrote: > A friend of mine is thinking about buying an RV-9 with an > Eggenfelder/Subaru engine and I know some here have experience with > this set up. Is there anything he should be looking for or wary about > with this engine? > Galin > > On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Graham Brighton > <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au <mailto:gbrighton@skymesh.com.au>> wrote: > > <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au <mailto:gbrighton@skymesh.com.au>> > > G'Day There Bill, > Great to see u have some hrs up now > with the Rotary ... us auto conversion guys are a bit out numbered > here ..!! .... but how is everything working out ..cooling > ...?..performance .....? ...wondering which redrive did u go with > ? .. did u use the Tracey Cook ecu ..? ... are u turbo'd ..or na > ..? sorry for all the questions ..just interested thats all .. > > Cheers > Graham Brighton > > > - > > =================================== > rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > =================================== > http://forums.matronics.com > =================================== > le, List Admin. > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > > > * > > > *


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:40:38 AM PST US
    From: "Owen Baker " <bakerocb@cox.net>
    Subject: IO-240 Starter
    7/8/2012 Hello Tim, I was a bit surprised to read of your recent experience with a TCM provided starter for the IO-240 engine. I thought that all of those crappy TCM designed starters had long since failed and been purged from the field. That was a very ugly chapter in TCM=99s history when they tried to screw Bill Bainbridge of B&C by reverse engineering one of his starters when their original design proved to be a miserable failure. TCM was eventually forced to buy and install B&C starters at the factory on new engines being shipped. TCM agreed to pay for a B&C starter for my engine for me to install when I refused to accept their designed starter that had been shipped with my engine, IO-240 B9B Serial number 806236. If anyone else is still operating a TCM designed starter on their IO-240 (it takes some detail part number sleuthing to determine that) I strongly recommend switching to a B&C starter because the TCM designed starter can fail in a manner that will foul up the interior of the engine =93 big expense and some danger. I have extensive postings on this subject in my files (and there are probably also some in the Matronics archives) if anyone is interested in reviewing that history. OC =========== Time: 09:31:00 PM PST US From: "F. Tim Yoder" <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com> Subject: KIS-List: IO-240 Starter FYI for those who have this engine or a light weight TCM starter. Circa 1997. My IO-240 came with a TCM starter, Part # 654046 E. It failed at 475 hours. I had been told by a TCM tech. that even though it had a Cont tag on it, it was really made by B&C. I called B&C and made arrangements to send it to them for repair. After they received it the called to advise me that it was not one of theirs but a knockoff that Cont. had made. B&C didn't think that Cont. would repair theirs anymore. I did not check with Cont. because I decided I wanted one of B&C's. They sent me a new one and my old one at no shipping charge. In a side by side comparison, the B&C starter is much better built. There was a dramatic improvement in prop rotation speed by the starter. Tim


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:21:47 AM PST US
    From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: KIS-List
    THANKS! I will pass this on to him so he can make a "informed" decision. I am "old school" that still relies on engines designed for aircraft. I am not an experimenter when it comes to engines. Galin On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:55 AM, Graham Brighton <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au>wrote: > ** > Galin, > Have only seen the masses of VERY mixed opinions of the > Eggenfellner set up ... Your friend should do LOTS of hmwork on this idea . > There was an entire Forum running, of dissatisfied Eggenfellners owners who > got together to try and get their FWF combos sorted ...!! The challenge > is to harness the advances of modern technology and apply this to aviation > use . Single lever engine control ... stable engine temps through > climb/decent ... ignition timing optimizing power and fuel efficiency > (knock control) ... are the main gains ... > > The task involves three major items ..Engine .. ECU (engine computer) > ... and the Redive ( gearing of engine speed to Prop speed .... The three > units of course have to work in concert ...sounds easy enough > .. But each one has its own index of special complexities ... and > marrying this up is the 'holy grail' ..that aero/auto folks strive for > ... as yet its still an untamed beast and not suited to the faint hearted > ...!!! > > Cheers > > Graham > > . > > *From:* Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Sunday, July 08, 2012 1:44 PM > *To:* kis-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: KIS-List > > A friend of mine is thinking about buying an RV-9 with an > Eggenfelder/Subaru engine and I know some here have experience with this > set up. Is there anything he should be looking for or wary about with this > engine? > > Galin > > On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Graham Brighton <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au > > wrote: > >> gbrighton@skymesh.com.au> >> >> G'Day There Bill, >> Great to see u have some hrs up now with >> the Rotary ... us auto conversion guys are a bit out numbered here ..!! >> .... but how is everything working out ..cooling ...?..performance .....? >> ...wondering which redrive did u go with ? .. did u use the Tracey Cook ecu >> ..? ... are u turbo'd ..or na ..? sorry for all the questions ..just >> interested thats all .. >> >> Cheers >> Graham Brighton >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> - >> >> ====**==============================**= >> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/**Navigator?KIS-List >> ====**==============================**= >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ====**==============================**= >> >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/**contribution >> ====**==============================**= >> >> >> >> > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:36:56 AM PST US
    From: "F. Tim Yoder" <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
    Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: IO-240 Starter
    Hi OC, Obviously TCM new they had put one of their junk starters on my engine and didn't bother to make good on it. As I said before, they even told me it was a B&C after I gave them the part# and serial#. I must have come to the lists after your postings of the starter reports. Maybe there are a few others that haven't herd of the problem and this might help. Thanks to you and others, I have learned allot on these lists. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: Owen Baker To: ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com ; aeroelectric-list@matronics.com ; KIS-LIST MATRONICS Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 6:40 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: IO-240 Starter 7/8/2012 Hello Tim, I was a bit surprised to read of your recent experience with a TCM provided starter for the IO-240 engine. I thought that all of those crappy TCM designed starters had long since failed and been purged from the field. That was a very ugly chapter in TCM=99s history when they tried to screw Bill Bainbridge of B&C by reverse engineering one of his starters when their original design proved to be a miserable failure. TCM was eventually forced to buy and install B&C starters at the factory on new engines being shipped. TCM agreed to pay for a B&C starter for my engine for me to install when I refused to accept their designed starter that had been shipped with my engine, IO-240 B9B Serial number 806236. If anyone else is still operating a TCM designed starter on their IO-240 (it takes some detail part number sleuthing to determine that) I strongly recommend switching to a B&C starter because the TCM designed starter can fail in a manner that will foul up the interior of the engine =93 big expense and some danger. I have extensive postings on this subject in my files (and there are probably also some in the Matronics archives) if anyone is interested in reviewing that history. OC =========== Time: 09:31:00 PM PST US From: "F. Tim Yoder" <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com> Subject: KIS-List: IO-240 Starter FYI for those who have this engine or a light weight TCM starter. Circa 1997. My IO-240 came with a TCM starter, Part # 654046 E. It failed at 475 hours. I had been told by a TCM tech. that even though it had a Cont tag on it, it was really made by B&C. I called B&C and made arrangements to send it to them for repair. After they received it the called to advise me that it was not one of theirs but a knockoff that Cont. had made. B&C didn't think that Cont. would repair theirs anymore. I did not check with Cont. because I decided I wanted one of B&C's. They sent me a new one and my old one at no shipping charge. In a side by side comparison, the B&C starter is much better built. There was a dramatic improvement in prop rotation speed by the starter. Tim


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:44:51 AM PST US
    From: "Bill Schertz" <wschertz@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: KIS-List
    Another thing to have him check is on the ECU, if the =98limp home=99 mode has been disabled. KIS Tr-1 owner had a Subaru and it went into =98limp home=99 mode when temps got high, and he didn't have enough power to stay airborne and lost the plane. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS Phase one testing Completed From: Galin Hernandez Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:20 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS-List THANKS! I will pass this on to him so he can make a "informed" decision. I am "old school" that still relies on engines designed for aircraft. I am not an experimenter when it comes to engines. Galin On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:55 AM, Graham Brighton <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au> wrote: Galin, Have only seen the masses of VERY mixed opinions of the Eggenfellner set up ... Your friend should do LOTS of hmwork on this idea . There was an entire Forum running, of dissatisfied Eggenfellners owners who got together to try and get their FWF combos sorted ...!! The challenge is to harness the advances of modern technology and apply this to aviation use . Single lever engine control ... stable engine temps through climb/decent ... ignition timing optimizing power and fuel efficiency (knock control) ... are the main gains ... The task involves three major items ..Engine .. ECU (engine computer) ... and the Redive ( gearing of engine speed to Prop speed .... The three units of course have to work in concert ...sounds easy enough .. But each one has its own index of special complexities ... and marrying this up is the 'holy grail' ..that aero/auto folks strive for ... as yet its still an untamed beast and not suited to the faint hearted ...!!! Cheers Graham . From: Galin Hernandez Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 1:44 PM To: kis-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS-List A friend of mine is thinking about buying an RV-9 with an Eggenfelder/Subaru engine and I know some here have experience with this set up. Is there anything he should be looking for or wary about with this engine? Galin On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Graham Brighton <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au> wrote: <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au> G'Day There Bill, Great to see u have some hrs up now with the Rotary ... us auto conversion guys are a bit out numbered here ..!! .... but how is everything working out ..cooling ...?..performance .....? ...wondering which redrive did u go with ? .. did u use the Tracey Cook ecu ..? ... are u turbo'd ..or na ..? sorry for all the questions ..just interested thats all .. Cheers Graham Brighton - rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com =========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?KIS-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 7


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    Time: 12:07:05 PM PST US
    From: jerzy krasinski <jerzy_krasinski@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: KIS-List
    Galin,=0A=0AOne of my friends bought Subaru engine from Eggenfellner with a plan to install =0Ait into his Glasair. The engine was advertised as top o f the line, with =0Asupercharger and some other bells and whistles. =0A=0AS oon the engine was discontinued and no support was provided.=0A=C2-Lets t he buyer beware...=0A=0A=0A=0AJerzy=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=0A=0A_____________ ___________________=0A=0AFrom: Bill Schertz <wschertz@comcast.net>=0ATo: ki s-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sun, July 8, 2012 9:46:12 AM=0ASubject: Re: KI S-List: KIS-List=0A=0AAnother thing to have him check is on the=C2- ECU, if the =98limp home=99 mode has been =0Adisabled. KIS Tr-1 owne r had a Subaru and it went into =98limp home=99 mode when =0Ate mps got high, and he didn't have enough power to stay airborne and lost the =0Aplane.=0A=0ABill Schertz=0AKIS Cruiser #4045=0AN343BS=0APhase one testi ng Completed=0A=0AFrom: Galin Hernandez =0ASent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:20 AM=0ATo: kis-list@matronics.com =0ASubject: Re: KIS-List: KIS-List=0ATHANK S! I will pass this on to him so he can make a "informed" decision. I am =0A"old school" that still relies on engines designed for aircraft. I am no t an =0Aexperimenter when it comes to engines.=0A=0AGalin =0A=0A=0AOn Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:55 AM, Graham Brighton <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au> =0Awrote :=0A=0AGalin,=0A>=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 - Have only seen the masses of VERY mixed opinions of the Eggenfellner =0A>set up ... Your friend should do LOTS of hmwork on this idea . There wa s an =0A>entire Forum running, of dissatisfied Eggenfellners owners who got together to =0A>try and get their FWF=C2- combos sorted ...!!=C2- The challenge is to harness the =0A>advances of modern=C2- technology and app ly this to aviation use . Single lever =0A>engine control ... stable engine temps through climb/decent ... ignition timing =0A>optimizing power and fu el efficiency=C2-=C2- (knock control) ... are the main gains =0A>...=0A >=C2-=0A>The task involves three major items ..Engine .. ECU (engine comp uter) ... and =0A>the Redive ( gearing of engine speed to Prop speed .... T he three units of =0A>course have to work in concert ...sounds easy enough =C2- ..=C2- But=C2- each one has its =0A>own index of special complex ities=C2- ... and marrying this up is the 'holy grail' =0A>..that aero/au to folks strive for ...=C2- as yet its still an untamed beast and not =0A >suited to the faint hearted=C2- ...!!!=C2- =0A>=0A>=C2-=0A>Cheers=0A >=C2-=0A>Graham =0A>=C2-=0A>.=0A>=0A>=0A>From: Galin Hernandez =0A>Sent : Sunday, July 08, 2012 1:44 PM=0A>To: kis-list@matronics.com =0A>Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS-List=0A>=0A>=0A>A friend of mine is thinking about buying an RV-9 with an Eggenfelder/Subaru =0A>engine and I know some here have ex perience with this set up. Is there anything =0A>he should be looking for o r wary about with this engine?=0A>=0A>Galin=0A>=0A>=0A>On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Graham Brighton <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au> =0A>wrote:=0A>=0A>- =0A>>=0A>>G'Day There Bill,=0A>>=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Great to se e u have some hrs up now with the =0A>>Rotary ... us auto conversion guys a re a bit out numbered here ..!! .... but how =0A>>is everything working out ..cooling ...?..performance .....? ...wondering which =0A>>redrive did u g o with ? .. did u use the Tracey Cook ecu ..? ... are u turbo'd =0A>>..or n a ..?=C2- sorry for all the questions ..just interested thats all ..=0A>> =0A>>Cheers=0A>>Graham Brighton=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A> >- =0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=================== ==================0A>>rget="_blank">htt p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List=0A>>========== ==0A>>http://forums.matronics.com=0A>>=========== =0A>>=0A>>le, List Admin.=0A>>="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribu tion=0A>>====================== ===============0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A> =0A >href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?KIS-List=0A> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://foru ms.matronics.com =0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// www.matronics.com/c =0A>=0A> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga tor?KIS-List =0A>tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com /contribution =0A>=0A=0A =0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KI S-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List=0A href="http://forum s.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com =0Ahref="http://www.matronic === =0A


    Message 8


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    Time: 03:03:36 PM PST US
    From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: KIS-List
    In addition to the other issues mentioned the subaru is also significantly h eavier than the lycoming for the same power. Check the empty weight and co mpare it to lycoming powered rv-9s. The useful load may be pretty small. T he RV website shows the -9 empty to be 1050 lbs with a lycoming 320. I woul d be very interested to hear the empty weight on the subaru powered airplane and what the fuel flow is at full throttle and full rpm so we can get an id ea of how much power it makes. 160 HP is 13-14 gph. I think a lycoming with 10:1 pistons and electronic ignition leaned for peak EGT (which is basically what EFI does and is what lycoming recommends) is a least at efficient as an auto conversion. Also most car engines will set t he mixture to best power during wide open throttle which is not good for eff icient cruise. I love EFI in my car but I prefer mechanical fuel injection w ith manual mixture control in an airplane, but with electronic ignition. My lycoming 360 with ported heads, 10:1 pistons, mechanical FI, and Pmag ele ctronic ignition at full power and slightly leaned but still quite rich did 2 26 HP at an SFC of 0.434 lb/hr*HP on the test cell. Leaned for peak EGT at l ower power I bet the SFC is close to 0.40 which not many car engines can bea t at 60-70% power and none that can do 220+ HP at 2700 rpm and only weigh 30 0 lbs. Anyhow, my point is that if your friend thinks an auto engine means a better or more efficient airplane he will be disappointed. If he wants to tinker w ith an interesting auto conversion then have at it. Be sure the engine has the limp home mode disabled. Also be sure it has not had auto fuel with ethanol in it. That can cause all kinds of wierd proble ms. Scott On Jul 7, 2012, at 8:44 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote: > A friend of mine is thinking about buying an RV-9 with an Eggenfelder/Suba ru engine and I know some here have experience with this set up. Is there an ything he should be looking for or wary about with this engine? > > Galin > > On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Graham Brighton <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au > wrote: u> > > G'Day There Bill, > Great to see u have some hrs up now with th e Rotary ... us auto conversion guys are a bit out numbered here ..!! .... b ut how is everything working out ..cooling ...?..performance .....? ...wonde ring which redrive did u go with ? .. did u use the Tracey Cook ecu ..? ... a re u turbo'd ..or na ..? sorry for all the questions ..just interested that s all .. > > Cheers > Graham Brighton > > > > > > > > > - > > ========================= > rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > ========================= > http://forums.matronics.com > ========================= > le, List Admin. > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========================= > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= >


    Message 9


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    Time: 03:09:05 PM PST US
    From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: IO-240 Starter
    I remember Rich having a problem with his starter and pulling it. Some ball s from a bearing fell out as he was pulling it and he was never sure if any e nded up in the engine. My dad always said... no such thing as cheap airplane parts. Scott On Jul 8, 2012, at 6:40 AM, "Owen Baker " <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote: > 7/8/2012 > > Hello Tim, I was a bit surprised to read of your recent experience with a T CM provided starter for the IO-240 engine. I thought that all of those crapp y TCM designed starters had long since failed and been purged from the field . > > That was a very ugly chapter in TCM=99s history when they tried to s crew Bill Bainbridge of B&C by reverse engineering one of his starters when t heir original design proved to be a miserable failure. TCM was eventually fo rced to buy and install B&C starters at the factory on new engines being shi pped. TCM agreed to pay for a B&C starter for my engine for me to install wh en I refused to accept their designed starter that had been shipped with my e ngine, IO-240 B9B Serial number 806236. > > If anyone else is still operating a TCM designed starter on their IO-240 ( it takes some detail part number sleuthing to determine that) I strongly rec ommend switching to a B&C starter because the TCM designed starter can fail i n a manner that will foul up the interior of the engine =93 big expens e and some danger. > > I have extensive postings on this subject in my files (and there are proba bly also some in the Matronics archives) if anyone is interested in reviewin g that history. > > OC > ========================= =========== > > Time: 09:31:00 PM PST US > From: "F. Tim Yoder" <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com> > Subject: KIS-List: IO-240 Starter > > FYI for those who have this engine or a light weight TCM starter. Circa > 1997. > > My IO-240 came with a TCM starter, Part # 654046 E. It failed at 475 > hours. I had been told by a TCM tech. that even though it had a Cont tag > on it, it was really made by B&C. I called B&C and made arrangements to > send it to them for repair. After they received it the called to advise > me that it was not one of theirs but a knockoff that Cont. had made. B&C > didn't think that Cont. would repair theirs anymore. I did not check > with Cont. because I decided I wanted one of B&C's. They sent me a new > one and my old one at no shipping charge. In a side by side comparison, > the B&C starter is much better built. There was a dramatic improvement > in prop rotation speed by the starter. > > Tim > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= >


    Message 10


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    Time: 04:16:38 PM PST US
    From: "F. Tim Yoder" <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
    Subject: Re: IO-240 Starter
    No one can afford "cheap airplane parts"! :-) Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Stearns To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 3:09 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: IO-240 Starter I remember Rich having a problem with his starter and pulling it. Some balls from a bearing fell out as he was pulling it and he was never sure if any ended up in the engine. My dad always said... no such thing as cheap airplane parts. Scott On Jul 8, 2012, at 6:40 AM, "Owen Baker " <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote: 7/8/2012 Hello Tim, I was a bit surprised to read of your recent experience with a TCM provided starter for the IO-240 engine. I thought that all of those crappy TCM designed starters had long since failed and been purged from the field. That was a very ugly chapter in TCM=99s history when they tried to screw Bill Bainbridge of B&C by reverse engineering one of his starters when their original design proved to be a miserable failure. TCM was eventually forced to buy and install B&C starters at the factory on new engines being shipped. TCM agreed to pay for a B&C starter for my engine for me to install when I refused to accept their designed starter that had been shipped with my engine, IO-240 B9B Serial number 806236. If anyone else is still operating a TCM designed starter on their IO-240 (it takes some detail part number sleuthing to determine that) I strongly recommend switching to a B&C starter because the TCM designed starter can fail in a manner that will foul up the interior of the engine =93 big expense and some danger. I have extensive postings on this subject in my files (and there are probably also some in the Matronics archives) if anyone is interested in reviewing that history. OC =========== Time: 09:31:00 PM PST US From: "F. Tim Yoder" <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com> Subject: KIS-List: IO-240 Starter FYI for those who have this engine or a light weight TCM starter. Circa 1997. My IO-240 came with a TCM starter, Part # 654046 E. It failed at 475 hours. I had been told by a TCM tech. that even though it had a Cont tag on it, it was really made by B&C. I called B&C and made arrangements to send it to them for repair. After they received it the called to advise me that it was not one of theirs but a knockoff that Cont. had made. B&C didn't think that Cont. would repair theirs anymore. I did not check with Cont. because I decided I wanted one of B&C's. They sent me a new one and my old one at no shipping charge. In a side by side comparison, the B&C starter is much better built. There was a dramatic improvement in prop rotation speed by the starter. Tim href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?KIS-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution


    Message 11


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    Time: 05:15:24 PM PST US
    From: Larry David <lgdavid2@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: KIS-List
    Limp home destroyed my plane and slightly damaged George Moore's plane. The limp home problem will occur under a variety of conditions when the ECU logic thinks the engine will be damaged. This feature is active when the sensors think the "car" is in "neutral" or "park." The solution is to simply ground the pins associated with "park" and "neutral." There was an article in Contact Magazine in 2006 or 2007 explaining which pins needed to be grounded. I don't remember which pins to ground so if anyone needs this information, they should search the archives of Contact Magazine and get the right information. Larry David former KIS TR1 #45 On 7/8/2012 7:44 AM, Bill Schertz wrote: > Another thing to have him check is on the ECU, if the limp home > mode has been disabled. KIS Tr-1 owner had a Subaru and it went into > limp home mode when temps got high, and he didn't have enough power > to stay airborne and lost the plane. > Bill Schertz > KIS Cruiser #4045 > N343BS > Phase one testing Completed > *From:* Galin Hernandez <mailto:galinhdz@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:20 AM > *To:* kis-list@matronics.com <mailto:kis-list@matronics.com> > *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: KIS-List > THANKS! I will pass this on to him so he can make a "informed" > decision. I am "old school" that still relies on engines designed for > aircraft. I am not an experimenter when it comes to engines. > Galin > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:55 AM, Graham Brighton > <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au <mailto:gbrighton@skymesh.com.au>> wrote: > > Galin, > Have only seen the masses of VERY mixed opinions of the > Eggenfellner set up ... Your friend should do LOTS of hmwork on > this idea . There was an entire Forum running, of dissatisfied > Eggenfellners owners who got together to try and get their FWF > combos sorted ...!! The challenge is to harness the advances of > modern technology and apply this to aviation use . Single lever > engine control ... stable engine temps through climb/decent ... > ignition timing optimizing power and fuel efficiency (knock > control) ... are the main gains ... > The task involves three major items ..Engine .. ECU (engine > computer) ... and the Redive ( gearing of engine speed to Prop > speed .... The three units of course have to work in concert > ...sounds easy enough .. But each one has its own index of > special complexities ... and marrying this up is the 'holy grail' > ..that aero/auto folks strive for ... as yet its still an untamed > beast and not suited to the faint hearted ...!!! > Cheers > Graham > . > *From:* Galin Hernandez <mailto:galinhdz@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Sunday, July 08, 2012 1:44 PM > *To:* kis-list@matronics.com <mailto:kis-list@matronics.com> > *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: KIS-List > A friend of mine is thinking about buying an RV-9 with an > Eggenfelder/Subaru engine and I know some here have experience > with this set up. Is there anything he should be looking for or > wary about with this engine? > Galin > > On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Graham Brighton > <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au <mailto:gbrighton@skymesh.com.au>> wrote: > > <gbrighton@skymesh.com.au <mailto:gbrighton@skymesh.com.au>> > > G'Day There Bill, > Great to see u have some hrs up > now with the Rotary ... us auto conversion guys are a bit out > numbered here ..!! .... but how is everything working out > ..cooling ...?..performance .....? ...wondering which redrive > did u go with ? .. did u use the Tracey Cook ecu ..? ... are u > turbo'd ..or na ..? sorry for all the questions ..just > interested thats all .. > > Cheers > Graham Brighton > > > - > > =================================== > rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > ========== > http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > > le, List Admin. > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > * > > * > > et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > * > * > > > *


    Message 12


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    Time: 08:58:20 PM PST US
    From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
    Subject: Nose Wheel Torque
    Has anybody had problems while torquing the nose gear friction bolt? I sheared the pin holding the bolt and had to get a new bolt machined. But it doesn't seem logical that the pin holding the bolt doesn't go all the way through to the other side. Does anybody know if there is a reason why the pin doesn't go all the way through the nose gear or can I drill the nose gear so the pin holds in two places not just one? Also, is that a special pin or would any rolled steel pin work? Galin




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