---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 07/16/12: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:59 AM - Re: weights and balances- battery (Keith.Miller@esa.int) 2. 02:45 AM - Re: weights and balances- battery (Flyinisfun@aol.com) 3. 04:12 AM - SV: weights and balances (Hans Christian Erstad) 4. 04:59 AM - Re: weights and balances- battery (Owen Baker) 5. 05:31 AM - Re: weights and balances (William Schertz) 6. 05:40 AM - Re: weights and balances (F. Tim Yoder) 7. 05:47 AM - Re: weights and balances- battery (Keith.Miller@esa.int) 8. 09:56 AM - SV: weights and balances (Hans Christian Erstad) 9. 02:37 PM - Re: weights and balances- battery (Robert Reed) 10. 07:22 PM - Re: weights and balances- battery (Galin Hernandez) 11. 09:30 PM - Re: (Keith Baertlein) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:59:30 AM PST US Subject: Re: KIS-List: weights and balances- battery From: Keith.Miller@esa.int Jesse My 10 year old Concorde battery ( CB35) finally gave up last winter and I replaced it with an Aerovoltz Lithium Iron phosphate battery weighing just 3Lbs, So far It has spun up the engine without any problems , but only time can tell if its as reliable as my old lead acid , this solution moved my Cof G forward without any need to rewire or move hardware. Keith |------------> | From: | |------------> >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |Flyinisfun@aol.com | >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |------------> | To: | |------------> >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |kis-list@matronics.com | >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |------------> | Date: | |------------> >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |16/07/2012 03:58 | >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |------------> | Subject: | |------------> >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |KIS-List: weights and balances | >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |------------> | Sent by: | |------------> >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com | >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| I am re-weighing my two place KIS -1 after moving the batteries forward by 30 inches. I feel I have been too near the rear CG and wanted more room at the rear. I would like to compare with you guys the following. 1. What are your empty weights and CG numbers? 2. Do you figure gross weight by using 170 lbs. per occupant or do you use the actual weight of the occupant? 3. How much gas are you leaving home with two 200 lb. bodies aboard and no luggage? Jesse Wright This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only. The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its content is not permitted. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender. Please consider the environment before printing this email. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:45:46 AM PST US From: Flyinisfun@aol.com Subject: Re: KIS-List: weights and balances- battery Thanks for all the input on my C of C issue. Here is my situation. When I built the plane Rich suggested I move the tail rearward to the end of the fuselage shell since I was using the Lyc.150 hp engine. That was about 1 1/2 inches. I am running one impulse starting mag and one electronic system which accounts for using two batteries. I put in a pair of high tech motorcycle batteries weighing about 1.5 lbs each. They were mounted just rear of the baggage bulkhead at about 120" station. I have just finished moving them forward to about station 90" which is just rear of the back of the seat. According to my calculations in Cad that amounted to moving about 1/2" forward in the envelope. I am now ahead of the rear C of C about that 1/2". I have not done the actual weight and balance yet so will find out in the next couple of days if my calculations are correct. I have 40 hrs. on the plane but have not done full stalls as things get too mushy before that. I am crossing the fence at about 110 mph indicated and touching down about 75. Question: By moving the tail rearward did that move my effective envelope from the stated position? Am I playing in no man's land? Jesse In a message dated 7/16/2012 1:59:33 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, Keith.Miller@esa.int writes: --> KIS-List message posted by: Keith.Miller@esa.int Jesse My 10 year old Concorde battery ( CB35) finally gave up last winter and I replaced it with an Aerovoltz Lithium Iron phosphate battery weighing just 3Lbs, So far It has spun up the engine without any problems , but only time can tell if its as reliable as my old lead acid , this solution moved my Cof G forward without any need to rewire or move hardware. Keith |------------> | From: | |------------> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------| |Flyinisfun@aol.com | >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------| |------------> | To: | |------------> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------| |kis-list@matronics.com | >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------| |------------> | Date: | |------------> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------| |16/07/2012 03:58 | >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------| |------------> | Subject: | |------------> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------| |KIS-List: weights and balances | >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------| |------------> | Sent by: | |------------> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------| |owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com | >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------| I am re-weighing my two place KIS -1 after moving the batteries forward by 30 inches. I feel I have been too near the rear CG and wanted more room at the rear. I would like to compare with you guys the following. 1. What are your empty weights and CG numbers? 2. Do you figure gross weight by using 170 lbs. per occupant or do you use the actual weight of the occupant? 3. How much gas are you leaving home with two 200 lb. bodies aboard and no luggage? Jesse Wright This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only. The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its content is not permitted. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender. Please consider the environment before printing this email. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:12:34 AM PST US From: "Hans Christian Erstad" Subject: SV: KIS-List: weights and balances Jesse 1. empty: 895 lbs empty C.G. STA 58.7 I weighed the aircraft before mounting the battery in order to calculate the optimum location. turned out the optimum location was too far aft to be possible to mont. (or I should have selected a heavier battery - battery is Gill G25) Mounted the battery just ahead of STA 158, but had to add anoter 8 lbs of weight at STA 158 to be able to get C.G within limits with a 165 lb pilot and full of fuel. 2. I use the actual weight of the occupant 3. zero Regards Hans Christian. TR-1 #32, LN-KIS _____ Fra: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] P=E5 vegne av Flyinisfun@aol.com Sendt: 16. juli 2012 03:57 Til: kis-list@matronics.com Emne: KIS-List: weights and balances I am re-weighing my two place KIS -1 after moving the batteries forward by 30 inches. I feel I have been too near the rear CG and wanted more room at the rear. I would like to compare with you guys the following. 1. What are your empty weights and CG numbers? 2. Do you figure gross weight by using 170 lbs. per occupant or do you use the actual weight of the occupant? 3. How much gas are you leaving home with two 200 lb. bodies aboard and no luggage? Jesse Wright ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:59:58 AM PST US From: "Owen Baker " Subject: Re: KIS-List: weights and balances- battery 7/16/2012 Hello Keith, You wrote: "My 10 year old Concorde battery ( CB35) finally gave up last winter........" 10 years old -- Wow, how did it "give up"? When a car battery finally "gives up" the scenario is usually that one can not get the starter to crank the engine. There is the usual inconvenience of getting a jump start, then driving to a battery supply source, replacing the battery, and proceeding on one's merry way. No great harm done. When an airplane battery can no longer crank the engine that battery has long since previously lost its capacity to supply electrical power to operate any essential electrical devices in the airplane for any significant period of time should the alternator fail. If inability to operate any essential electrical devices for the period of time needed to get the airplane safely on the ground is unacceptable then the pilot has a much more serious problem than just getting a jump start. In that "inability to operate" scenario, flying with a clapped out battery (which can provide no electrical reserve) is analogous to flying with essentially no fuel reserve and expecting to always being able to safely land and taxi to a fuel source before the propeller stops cooling the pilot -- not good. So using successful engine cranking as the sole indicator of an airplane's battery's health (reserve capacity) can be deleterious to the pilot's health. What can one do to ensure that there is sufficient electrical capacity remaining in the battery for essential / endurance needs when just cranking the engine is not a good indicator of battery actual capacity? There are two methods: 1) Use a battery capacity tester to determine the reserve capacity of the battery. Here is just one example: http://www.gillbatteries.com/capacitytesters.aspx 2) Just arbitrarily replace the airplane's battery at some periodic interval -- say every two years? Bob Nuckolls, our great electrical guru, has touched on this subject in his postings on the Matronics aeroelectric-list many times. His thoughts on the subject can be researched through the list archival search capacity. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator/?AeroElectric-List His Jun 09, 2005 posting on battery testing gives his philosophy on preferring this second course of action. OC =============================================================================== From: Keith.Miller@esa.int Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 3:59 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: weights and balances- battery Jesse My 10 year old Concorde battery ( CB35) finally gave up last winter and I replaced it with an Aerovoltz Lithium Iron phosphate battery weighing just 3Lbs, So far It has spun up the engine without any problems , but only time can tell if its as reliable as my old lead acid , this solution moved my Cof G forward without any need to rewire or move hardware. Keith ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:07 AM PST US Subject: Re: KIS-List: weights and balances From: William Schertz For theFAA you need a W&B using 170 lb, but for flying you need actual. (30years since I've seen 170 lb) bill Schertz Sent from my iPad On Jul 15, 2012, at 10:34 PM, "Owen Baker " wrote: > 7/15/2012 > > Hello Jesse, I think that the attached spread sheet on my KIS TR-1 will an swer most of your questions copied below. > > I believe in using the actual weight of occupants, not 170 pounds. > > Where did you have your battery before and where did you move it to? > > What kind of battery are you using and what does it weigh? > > Thanks. Please let me know if you have any questions. > > OC > > PS: My PC 680 battery is mounted just forward of the aft bulkhead of the b aggage compartment on the far right side of the compartment. > > ========================= ================ > > > From: Flyinisfun@aol.com > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 9:57 PM > To: kis-list@matronics.com > Subject: KIS-List: weights and balances > > I am re-weighing my two place KIS -1 after moving the batteries forward by 30 inches. I feel I have been too near the rear CG and wanted more room at the rear. I would like to compare with you guys the following. > > 1. What are your empty weights and CG numbers? > > 2. Do you figure gross weight by using 170 lbs. per occupant or do you us e the actual weight of the occupant? > > 3. How much gas are you leaving home with two 200 lb. bodies aboard and n o luggage? > > Jesse Wright > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:48 AM PST US From: "F. Tim Yoder" Subject: Re: KIS-List: weights and balances Hans, What engine do you have? Thanks, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: Hans Christian Erstad To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:12 AM Subject: SV: KIS-List: weights and balances Jesse 1. empty: 895 lbs empty C.G. STA 58.7 I weighed the aircraft before mounting the battery in order to calculate the optimum location. turned out the optimum location was too far aft to be possible to mont. (or I should have selected a heavier battery - battery is Gill G25) Mounted the battery just ahead of STA 158, but had to add anoter 8 lbs of weight at STA 158 to be able to get C.G within limits with a 165 lb pilot and full of fuel. 2. I use the actual weight of the occupant 3. zero Regards Hans Christian. TR-1 #32, LN-KIS ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Fra: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] P=E5 vegne av Flyinisfun@aol.com Sendt: 16. juli 2012 03:57 Til: kis-list@matronics.com Emne: KIS-List: weights and balances I am re-weighing my two place KIS -1 after moving the batteries forward by 30 inches. I feel I have been too near the rear CG and wanted more room at the rear. I would like to compare with you guys the following. 1. What are your empty weights and CG numbers? 2. Do you figure gross weight by using 170 lbs. per occupant or do you use the actual weight of the occupant? 3. How much gas are you leaving home with two 200 lb. bodies aboard and no luggage? Jesse Wright href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?KIS-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:23 AM PST US Subject: Re: KIS-List: weights and balances- battery From: Keith.Miller@esa.int OC I hear what you say, and very sound advice , In my defence I only fly VFR and have two standard mags to keep the fan up front going , but I agree I should have replaced my battery sooner, But......... each time I would go to the hanger even after 3 or 4 weeks it would crank the engine and start and the charging after 15 minutes would go down close to zero ( as measured going into the battery). Last winter was particularly cold ( minus 20) and one day it didnt start , recharged the battery which was fine and a week later the same happened , So I knew that the time had finally come to replace the battery . At work we have a team of battery specialists who have done a lot of research into Lithium Phosphate Iron , and their recommendation was to replace with a 16 Cell battery , they claim that with correct conditioning this should in theory last a long time , ( who knows if that is true, i will let you know in 2022 ) Keith |------------> | From: | |------------> >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |"Owen Baker " | >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |------------> | To: | |------------> >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |, "MILLER KEITH" , | >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |------------> | Date: | |------------> >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |16/07/2012 14:01 | >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |------------> | Subject: | |------------> >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |Re: KIS-List: weights and balances- battery | >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |------------> | Sent by: | |------------> >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com | >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 7/16/2012 Hello Keith, You wrote: "My 10 year old Concorde battery ( CB35) finally gave up last winter........" 10 years old -- Wow, how did it "give up"? When a car battery finally "gives up" the scenario is usually that one can not get the starter to crank the engine. There is the usual inconvenience of getting a jump start, then driving to a battery supply source, replacing the battery, and proceeding on one's merry way. No great harm done. When an airplane battery can no longer crank the engine that battery has long since previously lost its capacity to supply electrical power to operate any essential electrical devices in the airplane for any significant period of time should the alternator fail. If inability to operate any essential electrical devices for the period of time needed to get the airplane safely on the ground is unacceptable then the pilot has a much more serious problem than just getting a jump start. In that "inability to operate" scenario, flying with a clapped out battery (which can provide no electrical reserve) is analogous to flying with essentially no fuel reserve and expecting to always being able to safely land and taxi to a fuel source before the propeller stops cooling the pilot -- not good. So using successful engine cranking as the sole indicator of an airplane's battery's health (reserve capacity) can be deleterious to the pilot's health. What can one do to ensure that there is sufficient electrical capacity remaining in the battery for essential / endurance needs when just cranking the engine is not a good indicator of battery actual capacity? There are two methods: 1) Use a battery capacity tester to determine the reserve capacity of the battery. Here is just one example: http://www.gillbatteries.com/capacitytesters.aspx 2) Just arbitrarily replace the airplane's battery at some periodic interval -- say every two years? Bob Nuckolls, our great electrical guru, has touched on this subject in his postings on the Matronics aeroelectric-list many times. His thoughts on the subject can be researched through the list archival search capacity. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator/?AeroElectric-List His Jun 09, 2005 posting on battery testing gives his philosophy on preferring this second course of action. OC =============================================================================== From: Keith.Miller@esa.int Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 3:59 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: weights and balances- battery Jesse My 10 year old Concorde battery ( CB35) finally gave up last winter and I replaced it with an Aerovoltz Lithium Iron phosphate battery weighing just 3Lbs, So far It has spun up the engine without any problems , but only time can tell if its as reliable as my old lead acid , this solution moved my Cof G forward without any need to rewire or move hardware. Keith This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only. The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its content is not permitted. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender. Please consider the environment before printing this email. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:56:25 AM PST US From: "Hans Christian Erstad" Subject: SV: KIS-List: weights and balances The continental IO-240-A with Prince wooden prop. I got the engine mount from Tri-R, but there is good spacing between the engine and firewal so it could have been shorter. Hans Christian _____ Fra: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] P=E5 vegne av F. Tim Yoder Sendt: 16. juli 2012 14:41 Til: kis-list@matronics.com Emne: Re: KIS-List: weights and balances Hans, What engine do you have? Thanks, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: Hans Christian Erstad Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:12 AM Subject: SV: KIS-List: weights and balances Jesse 1. empty: 895 lbs empty C.G. STA 58.7 I weighed the aircraft before mounting the battery in order to calculate the optimum location. turned out the optimum location was too far aft to be possible to mont. (or I should have selected a heavier battery - battery is Gill G25) Mounted the battery just ahead of STA 158, but had to add anoter 8 lbs of weight at STA 158 to be able to get C.G within limits with a 165 lb pilot and full of fuel. 2. I use the actual weight of the occupant 3. zero Regards Hans Christian. TR-1 #32, LN-KIS _____ Fra: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] P=E5 vegne av Flyinisfun@aol.com Sendt: 16. juli 2012 03:57 Til: kis-list@matronics.com Emne: KIS-List: weights and balances I am re-weighing my two place KIS -1 after moving the batteries forward by 30 inches. I feel I have been too near the rear CG and wanted more room at the rear. I would like to compare with you guys the following. 1. What are your empty weights and CG numbers? 2. Do you figure gross weight by using 170 lbs. per occupant or do you use the actual weight of the occupant? 3. How much gas are you leaving home with two 200 lb. bodies aboard and no luggage? Jesse Wright href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronhre f="ht tp://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics .com/ Navigator?KIS-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:37:08 PM PST US From: Robert Reed Subject: Re: KIS-List: weights and balances- battery Much depends on where the battery is located as well.- Most of my batteri es seem =0Ato last for 3 - 4 years at the most since they are located in th e engine =0Acompartment.- Had an Audi for over 10 years though and never had a problem with =0Athe battery which was located under the rear seat.- I have heard the same =0Astories on aircraft batteries when located on the firewall vs located inside the =0Acabin area.=0A=0ABob=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____ ___________________________=0AFrom: "Keith.Miller@esa.int" =0ATo: kis-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, July 16, 2012 7:47:28 AM =0ASubject: Re: KIS-List: weights and balances- battery=0A=0A--> KIS-List m essage posted by: Keith.Miller@esa.int=0A=0AOC=0A=0AI hear what you say, an d very- sound advice ,=0A=0AIn my defence I only fly VFR and have two sta ndard mags to keep the fan up=0Afront going , but I agree- I should- ha ve replaced my battery sooner,=0A=0ABut......... each time I would go to th e hanger even after 3 or 4 weeks it=0Awould crank- the engine and start a nd the charging after 15 minutes would go=0Adown close to- zero ( as meas ured going into the battery). Last winter was=0Aparticularly cold ( minus 2 0) and one day- it didnt start ,=CD recharged the=0Abattery which was fin e and a week later the same happened , So I- knew that=0Athe time had fin ally come to replace the battery .=0AAt work we have a team of battery spec ialists- who have done a lot of=0Aresearch into Lithium Phosphate Iron- , and their recommendation was- to=0Areplace- with a 16 Cell- batter y , they claim that with correct conditioning=0Athis should in theory last a long time , ( who knows- if that is true, i will=0Alet you know in 2022 )=0A=0AKeith=0A=0A=0A|------------>=0A| From:- - - |=0A|------------ >=0A- =0A>--------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------|=0A=0A- |"Owen Baker " - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - =0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - | =0A- =0A>---------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------|=0A=0A|------------>=0A| To:- - - - |=0A|------------> =0A- =0A>---------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------|=0A=0A- |, "MILLER KEITH" , =0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - =0A - - |=0A- =0A>------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------|=0A=0A|------------>=0A| Date:- - - |=0A|------- ----->=0A- =0A>---------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------------|=0A=0A- |16/07/2012 14:01- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - =0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |=0A- =0A>------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------|=0A=0A|------------>=0A| Subject:- |=0A| ------------>=0A- =0A>--------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------|=0A=0A- |Re: KIS-List: weights and balances- bat tery- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - =0A - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |=0A - =0A>------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------|=0A=0A|------------>=0A| Sent by:- |=0A|------------>=0A- =0A> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- |=0A=0A- |owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - =0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |=0A- =0A>---------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------|=0A=0A=0A >=0A=0A7/16/2012=0A=0AHello Keith, You wrote: "My 10 year old- Concorde b attery ( CB35) finally=0Agave up last winter........"=0A=0A10 years old -- Wow, how did- it "give up"? When a car battery finally=0A"gives up" the s cenario is usually that one can not get the starter to crank=0Athe engine. There is the usual inconvenience of getting a jump start, then=0Adriving to a battery supply source, replacing the battery,- and proceeding=0Aon one 's merry way. No great harm done.=0A=0AWhen an airplane battery can no long er crank the engine that battery has=0Along since previously lost its capac ity to supply electrical power to=0Aoperate any essential electrical device s in the airplane for any significant=0Aperiod of time should the alternato r fail. If inability to operate any=0Aessential electrical devices for the period of time needed to get the=0Aairplane safely on the ground is unaccep table then the pilot has a much more=0Aserious problem than just getting a jump start.=0A=0AIn that "inability to operate" scenario, flying with a cla pped out battery=0A(which can provide no electrical reserve) is analogous t o flying with=0Aessentially no fuel reserve and expecting to always being a ble to safely=0Aland and taxi to a fuel source before the propeller stops c ooling the=0Apilot -- not good.=0A=0ASo using successful engine cranking as the sole indicator of an airplane's=0Abattery's health (reserve capacity) can be deleterious to the pilot's=0Ahealth. What can one do to ensure that there is sufficient electrical=0Acapacity remaining in the battery for=0Aes sential / endurance needs when just cranking the engine is not a good=0Aind icator of battery actual capacity? There are two methods:=0A=0A1) Use a bat tery capacity tester to determine the reserve capacity of the=0Abattery. He re is just one example:=0A=0Ahttp://www.gillbatteries.com/capacitytesters.a spx=0A=0A2) Just arbitrarily replace the airplane's battery at some periodi c=0Ainterval -- say every two years?=0A=0ABob Nuckolls, our great electrica l guru, has touched on this subject in his=0Apostings on the Matronics aero electric-list many times. His thoughts on the=0Asubject can be researched t hrough the list archival search capacity.=0A=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Nav igator/?AeroElectric-List=0A=0AHis Jun 09, 2005 posting on battery testing gives his philosophy on=0Apreferring this second course of action.=0A=0AOC =0A=0A======================= ========0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: Keith.Miller@esa.int=0ASent: Monday, July 16, 2012 3:59 AM=0ATo: kis-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: KIS-List Miller@esa.int=0A=0AJesse=0AMy 10 year old- Concorde battery ( CB35) fina lly gave up last winter and I=0Areplaced it with an Aerovoltz Lithium Iron phosphate battery weighing- just=0A3Lbs, So far It has- spun up the eng ine without any problems , but only time=0Acan tell if its as reliable as m y old lead acid ,- this solution moved my=0ACof=0AG forward without any n eed to rewire- or move hardware.=0A=0AKeith=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or =0Aaddressees only. The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or c opying =0A(either in whole or in part) of its content is not permitted. If you received =0Athis message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. =0AEmails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender.=0A=0APlease consider the environment before prin =================== ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:22:33 PM PST US From: Galin Hernandez Subject: Re: KIS-List: weights and balances- battery I replaced the Concorde battery in my airplane in Dec 2010 after almost 9yrs of service. It wasn't starting the engine as fast as it had been and after verifying with Dave that it was the original battery I replaced it. The battery is under the co-pilot seat so it isn't exposed to the firewall heat. I replaced it with another Concorde battery. Galin On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 2:59 AM, wrote: > > Jesse > My 10 year old Concorde battery ( CB35) finally gave up last winter and I > replaced it with an Aerovoltz Lithium Iron phosphate battery weighing just > 3Lbs, So far It has spun up the engine without any problems , but only > time > can tell if its as reliable as my old lead acid , this solution moved my > Cof > G forward without any need to rewire or move hardware. > > Keith > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > |Flyinisfun@aol.com > > | > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > |kis-list@matronics.com > > | > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > |16/07/2012 03:58 > > | > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > |KIS-List: weights and balances > > | > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > |owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com > > | > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > > > I am re-weighing my two place KIS -1 after moving the batteries forward by > 30 > inches. I feel I have been too near the rear CG and wanted more room at > the > rear. I would like to compare with you guys the following. > > 1. What are your empty weights and CG numbers? > > 2. Do you figure gross weight by using 170 lbs. per occupant or do you use > the actual weight of the occupant? > > 3. How much gas are you leaving home with two 200 lb. bodies aboard and no > luggage? > > Jesse Wright > > > This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee > or addressees only. The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or > copying (either in whole or in part) of its content is not permitted. If > you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it > from your system. Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be > guaranteed by the sender. > > Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:30:53 PM PST US Subject: KIS-List: RE: From: Keith Baertlein Electronic products Web site: www.coclife.com look forward to your visit to buy. Hope, that we can not serve for you soon. Thanks and Regards. 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