Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:46 AM - Still building a TR4 (John Forster)
2. 05:37 PM - Re: Cont IO-240B (Owen Baker)
3. 07:38 PM - Re: Still building a TR4 (Robert Reed)
4. 07:58 PM - Current TR-4 Cruiser Builders (Robert Reed)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Still building a TR4 |
I haven't given up yet, but I've taken a "short" hiatus to build another pr
oject.
My daughter Jessica and I are both building Sonex kits. She's got hers in
Southern California and mine is in Wisconsin. While it's not officially a
race (I'm slightly ahead), it is a great motivator to have two projects goi
ng in parallel. The guys at work have all bet on her to finish first. Som
ething to do with my poor track record and the fact that she is an aeronaut
ical engineer. I respectfully disagree.
Sadly, there is no comparison in the completeness of the kit or plans betwe
en the Sonex and the KIS. As I still maintain, the Cruiser is one of the b
est planes out there, but it never reached its full potential due to being
essentially orphaned multiple times. The build experience for the Sonex is
completely different, and the gang at the Sonex factory have been great to
work with. It's also easier to stay motivated when there is a "first flig
ht" almost every week. Of course, the Sonex has a completely different mis
sion profile from the Cruiser, so I really need both.
After the Sonex takes flight I'll get back to the Cruiser. I'm shooting fo
r the distinction of being the last completed kit, although the competition
appears stiff. :)
John Forster
p.s. I've already submitted my wife Carrie for consideration for sainthood!
From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server@mat
ronics.com] On Behalf Of Cody Austin
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 6:04 PM
Subject: RE: KIS-List: Gas strut for nose gear
Add me to the list of slow builders.
- Cody
Sent from my HTC Touch Pro2 on the Now Network from Sprint(r).
________________________________
From: ALFRED ROSA <fredorosa@gmail.com<mailto:fredorosa@gmail.com>>
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Gas strut for nose gear
I believe an automotive strut is used in the TR4. I can't be more specific
as I've never removed mine. Didn't know anyone besides me and Bob Reed we
re still building, albeit very slowly.
Al
On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Donna Frisone <Donfrizz@gvtc.com<mailto:Do
nfrizz@gvtc.com>> wrote:
Hello everyone!!
Dennis Frisone here in Boerne, Texas building a KIS TR-4 and have a questio
n for anyone with knowledge about nose gear.
I am having Lyle Hendricks fabricate a nose gear for me and I need to purch
ase the interior strut - can anyone point me in the right direction?? Wher
e can I purchase??
Thanks for your help in advance
Dennis Frisone
210-669-7062<tel:210-669-7062>
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com>
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com>
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
e is not included]
rsbooks.com>
m>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Cont IO-240B |
12/31/2012
Hello Tim, Here are the results of today=99s KIS TR-1 flight:
Altitude MSL: 2,000 feet
OAT: 10 degrees C
WOT RPM: 2,750 to 2,780 depending upon mixture adjustment
WOT KIAS: 145
WOT GPS GROUND SPEED KNOTS: 152
Fuel Flow: 10.5 to 10.9 GPH depending upon mixture adjustment.
The prop is a PAC 68 inch diameter, 69 inch pitch, P-Tip.
OC
============
From: F. Tim Yoder
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: Cont IO-240B
OC,
Thank you for the information. Do you think your prop would make it to
2800 rpm at low level?
I appreciate the help.
Tim
========
----- Original Message -----
From: Owen Baker To: F. Tim Yoder
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: Cont IO-240B
12/28/2012
Hello Tim, I held off on answering your questions with the intent of
getting some fresh data for you. There is probably data somewhere in my
computer, but it might be quicker to fly and get new data than to try to
find old data in my computer.
I did fly today and will put some information in {brackets} after your
questions copied below.
OC
=======================
From: F. Tim Yoder
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 12:10 PM
To: Owen Baker
Subject: Re: Cont IO-240B
Hi OC,
The document came through fine, thank you. It is the same chart that I
had on the A but the curves are quite a bit different.
I have been in touch with Lonnie and like his prop. As you know, I am
here in AZ and fly to > 5000' airports in the summer that have density
alt. of 8000'. My old Sensenich 68x72 climbed poorly so I am looking to
replace it. I also like the carbon fiber cover. Is yours carbon covered?
{I believe that mine is fiberglass covered and painted gray. I can see
faint fiber weave under the paint.}
Lonnie suggested a 62x72 P-TIP for me. I am also asking him about his
Elliptical design that I have read positive reports on.
Would you mind telling me about your performance?
Static rpm? {approx 2100}
VY rpm, indicated speed and rate of climb? (aprox. weight of the
plane) {RPM 2200} {90 KIAS} {ROC 1,200 FPM} {APPROX WT 1,350 POUNDS}
NOTE THAT THE OAT WAS 7 DEGREES CELSIUS SO PERFORMANCE WAS VERY GOOD.
Low level WOT indicated, gps speed and rpm? {NOT AVAILABLE FROM
TODAY=99S FLIGHT =93 MAYBE SOME DAY}
Best ROC high, >8000'? and max cruise rpm / speed. {NOT AVAILABLE FROM
TODAY=99S FLIGHT =93 MAYBE SOME DAY}
Do you feel, perceive, the twist of the blade at high torque takeoff?
{No, and I am not convinced that there is such a reaction as described
below on the Prince web site. I=99d need to see wind tunnel data
before I believe it.}
Pitch change and the Scimitar shape
The propeller has a fixed pitch that relies on the forward pull of the
propeller to automatically provide pitch change proportional to the
amount of force being applied to the propeller disk. When a propeller
operates at a slower airspeed than its maximum capability, it has a
proportional pull in relation to the velocity of forward motion, so at
takeoff and climb, the propeller will have its largest forward pull. Due
to the scimitar shape, the tip of the propeller cones forward, as the
coning angle changes the propeller will lessen pitch that provides
shorter takeoffs and higher rates of climb. As the propeller increases
in forward speed the disk pressure is reduced, this forces the propeller
to increase pitch and top speed. This change in pitch is approximately
four inches from takeoff to cruise.
Would you make any change in your prop to fine tune it if you were
ordering it now?
{I think that I=99d go with the carbon fiber coating. Maybe
when, and if, my prop ever needs refinishing I=99ll have it
converted to the carbon fiber coating for only $8.78 per inch =93
about $590}
I know you are a sea level and my flying conditions are quite a bit
different, so I don't think the same prop would be the most appropriate
for me. I just asked for indicated and gps speeds because that makes it
easier to compare to mine, even thought it isn't as accurate as TAS,
CAS, etc.
Thank you,
Tim
p.s. Have a great new year!
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Still building a TR4 |
John,=0A=0AI am so disappointed, I was in the lead for being the last KIS C
ruiser Kit to be =0Acompleted and now you may just beat me out.=C2- I hav
e actually made some progress =0Aover the last year. =C2-I finally got so
me help at work which could mean even more =0Atime to work on the plane.=C2
- (Seems like I have said that before but this time I =0Amean it.=C2-)
=C2- =C2-Planning to finish primer and start painting everything but th
e =0Afuselage this=C2-winter and spring.=C2- Starting on=C2-wiring bu
t going is real slow.=C2- =0AUnless something gets in the way yet again
=C2-I hope to be=C2-finished withing 15 - 18 =0Amonths.=C2- =C2-(Se
ems like I have said that before but this time I mean it.)=0A=0ABy the way.
..does anyone remember the definition of insanity?=0A=0ABob Reed=0A=0A=0A
=C2-=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: John Forster <jf
orster@baisch.com>=0ATo: "kis-list@matronics.com" <kis-list@matronics.com>
=0ASent: Mon, December 31, 2012 10:46:39 AM=0ASubject: KIS-List: Still buil
ding a TR4=0A=0A=0AI haven=99t given up yet, but I=99ve taken a
=9Cshort=9D hiatus to build another =0Aproject.=0A=C2-=0AMy
daughter Jessica and I are both building Sonex kits.=C2- She=99s go
t hers in =0ASouthern California and mine is in Wisconsin.=C2- While it
=99s not officially a race =0A(I=99m slightly ahead), it is a g
reat motivator to have two projects going in =0Aparallel.=C2- The guys at
work have all bet on her to finish first.=C2- Something to =0Ado with my
poor track record and the fact that she is an aeronautical engineer.=C2-
=0AI respectfully disagree.=0A=C2-=0ASadly, there is no comparison in th
e completeness of the kit or plans between =0Athe Sonex and the KIS.=C2-
As I still maintain, the Cruiser is one of the best =0Aplanes out there, bu
t it never reached its full potential due to being =0Aessentially orphaned
multiple times.=C2- The build experience for the Sonex is =0Acompletely d
ifferent, and the gang at the Sonex factory have been great to work =0Awith
.=C2- It=99s also easier to stay motivated when there is a
=9Cfirst flight=9D almost =0Aevery week.=C2- Of course, the Sonex h
as a completely different mission profile =0Afrom the Cruiser, so I really
need both.=0A=C2-=0AAfter the Sonex takes flight I=99ll get back to
the Cruiser.=C2- I=99m shooting for the =0Adistinction of being th
e last completed kit, although the competition appears =0Astiff.=C2- J=0A
=C2-=0AJohn Forster=0Ap.s. I=99ve already submitted my wife Carrie
for consideration for sainthood!=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0AFrom:owner-kis-list-se
rver@matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behal
f Of Cody Austin=0ASent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 6:04 PM=0ATo: kis-list@m
atronics.com=0ASubject: RE: KIS-List: Gas strut for nose gear=0A=C2-=0AAd
d me to the list of slow builders.=0A=0A- Cody=0A=0ASent from my HTC Touch
Pro2 on the Now Network from Sprint=C2=AE.=0A=0A___________________________
_____=0A=0AFrom: ALFRED ROSA <fredorosa@gmail.com>=0ASent: Sunday, December
30, 2012 6:27 PM=0ATo: kis-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: KIS-List: Gas
strut for nose gear=0A=0AI believe an automotive strut is used in the TR4.
=C2-I can't be more specific as =0AI've never removed mine. =C2-Didn't
know anyone besides me and Bob Reed were still =0Abuilding, albeit very sl
owly.=0A=C2-=0AAl=0A=C2-=0AOn Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Donna Friso
ne <Donfrizz@gvtc.com> wrote:=0A=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =0AHello everyone!!=0A=C2
-=0ADennis Frisone here in Boerne, Texas building a KIS TR-4 and have a q
uestion for =0Aanyone with knowledge about nose gear.=0A=C2-=0AI am havin
g Lyle Hendricks fabricate a nose gear for me and I need to purchase =0Athe
interior strut =93 can anyone point me in the right direction??=C2
- Where can I =0Apurchase??=0A=C2-=0AThanks for your help in advance=0A
Dennis Frisone=0A210-669-7062=0A =C2-=0A =C2-=0A_blank">www.aeroelectri
c.com=0A.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com=0A="_blank">www.hom
ebuilthelp.com=0A_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0Aet="_bla
nk">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List=0Atp://forums.matronics.com
=0A =C2-=0A=C2-=0A =C2-=0A =C2-=0Ae is not included]=0A =C2-=0A
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Current TR-4 Cruiser Builders |
Al,=0A=0AIf I am not mistaken there are currently four (4) TR-4 KIS Cruiser
s under =0Aconstruction in Texas and at least one currently flying in Texas
.=0A=0ACody Austin is building in the Austin Texas=C2-Area=0A=0ADennis Fr
isone is building in the Boerne Texas (Also close to Austin)=0A=0ATim Sahag
un is building in the Dallas Texas Area=0A=0ARobert Reed (ME) is building i
n the Dallas / Ft.Worth Area=0A=0A=0AGalin Hernandez is in Houston with a f
lying TR-4=0A=0AIf there are any others or I have made a mistake please let
me know.=0A=0A=0A=0ABob Reed=0A=0A=0A=C2-=0A=0A=0A=0A___________________
_____________=0AFrom: ALFRED ROSA <fredorosa@gmail.com>=0ATo: kis-list@matr
onics.com=0ASent: Sun, December 30, 2012 5:28:00 PM=0ASubject: Re: KIS-List
: Gas strut for nose gear=0A=0AI believe an automotive strut is used in the
TR4. =C2-I can't be more specific as =0AI've never removed mine. =C2-D
idn't know anyone besides me and Bob Reed were still =0Abuilding, albeit ve
ry slowly. =0A=0A=0AAl=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Donna Fr
isone <Donfrizz@gvtc.com> wrote:=0A=0A=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =0A>Hello everyone!!
=0A>=C2-=0A>Dennis Frisone here in Boerne, Texas building a KIS TR-4 and
have a question for =0A>anyone with knowledge about nose gear.=0A>=C2-=0A
>I am having Lyle Hendricks fabricate a nose gear for me and I need to purc
hase =0A>the interior strut =93 can anyone point me in the right dire
ction??=C2- Where can I =0A>purchase??=0A>=C2-=0A>Thanks for your help
in advance=0A>Dennis Frisone=0A>210-669-7062=0A> _blank">www.aeroelectric.
com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com =0A>="_blank">www.homeb
uilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>et="_blank
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List =0A>tp://forums.matronics.com
======= =0A
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