---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/24/13: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:14 AM - Re: KIS TR-1 Airfoil (Propellerjan) 2. 05:27 AM - Re: Re: KIS TR-1 Airfoil (Flyinisfun@aol.com) 3. 05:58 AM - Re: KIS TR-1 Airfoil (Propellerjan) 4. 06:28 AM - Re: Re: KIS TR-1 Airfoil (Galin Hernandez) 5. 06:50 AM - Re: KIS TR-1 Airfoil (Propellerjan) 6. 07:27 AM - Re: Re: KIS TR-1 Airfoil (Robert Reed) 7. 07:30 AM - KIS Forum: Selling your plane? (Robert Reed) 8. 06:06 PM - Re: Re: KIS TR-1 Airfoil (Flyinisfun@aol.com) 9. 07:12 PM - Re: KIS TR-1 Airfoil (Propellerjan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:48 AM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Re: KIS TR-1 Airfoil From: "Propellerjan" I got the late Harry Riblett GA AIRFOILS Book the other day. He has some really good information and fixes in his book, and the story about how he comes to develop his own airfoils the GA- series. In the book is a quick fix for the NACA 64-212 with a cuff going 10% of the chord on bottom surface. Instead of the super elevation LE of the NACA, he draws in a 12 degree initial camber angle and a new mean line that create the cuff. The good with this mod is that it maintain the laminar flow. Not so with VGs This cuff on the KIS-1 will be about 8 mm forward and little more thickness under the nose, a little to much for a micro job, but hot-wire foam inlay and class, or pre moulded will work. He also show that the flap top should have a raised and curved surface, this is not really new it have been used on many plane since before the WW2, but by making the control surface thicker then the true airfoil, it re-energize the air, so it follow better and also have less drag, almost as there was no gap from beginning. This will work on the elevator as well, but then at the bottom. -------- www.jcpropellerdesign.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392991#392991 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/naca_63a215_flapmod_810.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/naca_63a215_nosejob_125.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/naca_63a215_fix_205.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:03 AM PST US From: Flyinisfun@aol.com Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: KIS TR-1 Airfoil Tm90IGJlaW5nIGFuIGFlcm9uYXV0aWNhbCBlbmdpbmVlciwgY291bGQgeW91IGRyYXcgbWUgYSBw aWN0dXJlIG9mIHdoYXQgIA0KdGhpcyBsb29rcyBsaWtlPyAgSSdtIHZlcnkgaW50ZXJlc3RlZCB0 byBrbm93IG1vcmUuDQogDQogIEplc3NlIFdyaWdodCANCiANCiANCiANCiANCkluIGEgbWVzc2Fn ZSBkYXRlZCAxLzI0LzIwMTMgNjoxNDo1MiBBLk0uIE1vdW50YWluIFN0YW5kYXJkIFRpbWUsICAN CnByb3BlbGxlcmRlc2lnbkB0ZWxlMi5zZSB3cml0ZXM6DQoNCi0tPiAgS0lTLUxpc3QgbWVzc2Fn ZSBwb3N0ZWQgYnk6ICJQcm9wZWxsZXJqYW4iICA8cHJvcGVsbGVyZGVzaWduQHRlbGUyLnNlPg0K DQpJIGdvdCB0aGUgbGF0ZSBIYXJyeSBSaWJsZXR0IEdBICBBSVJGT0lMUyBCb29rIHRoZSBvdGhl ciBkYXkuDQoNCkhlIGhhcyBzb21lIHJlYWxseSBnb29kIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGFuZCAgZml4ZXMg aW4gaGlzIGJvb2ssIGFuZCB0aGUgc3RvcnkgDQphYm91dCBob3cgaGUgY29tZXMNCnRvIGRldmVs b3AgaGlzIG93biAgYWlyZm9pbHMgdGhlIEdBLSBzZXJpZXMuDQoNCkluIHRoZSBib29rIGlzIGEg w6LigqzFk3F1aWNrIGZpeMOi4oKswp0gZm9yIHRoZSBOQUNBICA2NC0yMTIgd2l0aCBhIGN1ZmYg Z29pbmcgDQoxMCUgb2YgdGhlIGNob3JkIG9uDQpib3R0b20gc3VyZmFjZS4NCkluc3RlYWQgb2Yg IHRoZSBzdXBlciBlbGV2YXRpb24gTEUgb2YgdGhlIE5BQ0EsIGhlIGRyYXdzIGluIGEgMTIgZGVn cmVlIA0KaW5pdGlhbCBjYW1iZXIgIGFuZ2xlDQphbmQgYSBuZXcgbWVhbiBsaW5lIHRoYXQgY3Jl YXRlIHRoZSBjdWZmLiBUaGUgZ29vZCB3aXRoIHRoaXMgbW9kIGlzICB0aGF0IA0KaXQgbWFpbnRh aW4gdGhlDQpsYW1pbmFyIGZsb3cuIE5vdCBzbyB3aXRoIFZHw6LigqzihKJzIA0KDQpUaGlzIGN1 ZmYgb24gIHRoZSBLSVMtMSB3aWxsIGJlIGFib3V0IDggbW0gZm9yd2FyZCBhbmQgbGl0dGxlIG1v cmUgDQp0aGlja25lc3MgdW5kZXIgdGhlIG5vc2UsICBhDQpsaXR0bGUgdG8gbXVjaCBmb3IgYSDD ouKCrMWTbWljcm/DouKCrMKdIGpvYiwgYnV0IGhvdC13aXJlIGZvYW0gaW5sYXkgYW5kIGNsYXNz LCAgDQpvciBwcmUgbW91bGRlZCB3aWxsIHdvcmsuIA0KDQpIZSBhbHNvIHNob3cgdGhhdCB0aGUg ZmxhcCB0b3Agc2hvdWxkIGhhdmUgYSAgcmFpc2VkIGFuZCBjdXJ2ZWQgc3VyZmFjZSwgDQp0aGlz IGlzIG5vdCByZWFsbHkgbmV3IGl0DQpoYXZlIGJlZW4gdXNlZCBvbiBtYW55ICBwbGFuZSBzaW5j ZSBiZWZvcmUgdGhlIFdXMiwgYnV0IGJ5IG1ha2luZyB0aGUgDQpjb250cm9sIHN1cmZhY2UNCnRo aWNrZXIgdGhlbiAgdGhlIHRydWUgYWlyZm9pbCwgaXQgcmUtZW5lcmdpemUgdGhlIGFpciwgc28g aXQgZm9sbG93IGJldHRlciANCmFuZCBhbHNvIGhhdmUgIGxlc3MgZHJhZywNCmFsbW9zdCBhcyB0 aGVyZSB3YXMgbm8gZ2FwIGZyb20gYmVnaW5uaW5nLiAgICANClRoaXMgIHdpbGwgd29yayBvbiB0 aGUgZWxldmF0b3IgYXMgd2VsbCwgYnV0IHRoZW4gYXQgdGhlICBib3R0b20uDQoNCi0tLS0tLS0t DQp3d3cuamNwcm9wZWxsZXJkZXNpZ24uY29tDQoNCg0KDQoNClJlYWQgIHRoaXMgdG9waWMgb25s aW5lICBoZXJlOg0KDQpodHRwOi8vZm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vdmlld3RvcGljLnBocD9w PTM5Mjk5MSMzOTI5OTENCg0KDQoNCg0KQXR0YWNobWVudHM6ICANCg0KaHR0cDovL2ZvcnVtcy5t YXRyb25pY3MuY29tLy9maWxlcy9uYWNhXzYzYTIxNV9mbGFwbW9kXzgxMC5qcGcNCmh0dHA6Ly9m b3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS8vZmlsZXMvbmFjYV82M2EyMTVfbm9zZWpvYl8xMjUuanBnDQpo dHRwOi8vZm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vL2ZpbGVzL25hY2FfNjNhMjE1X2ZpeF8yMDUuanBn DQoNCg0KDQoNCl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09DQpfLT0gICAtIFRoZSBLSVMtTGlzdCBFbWFpbCBGb3J1bSAtDQpfLT0g VXNlIHRoZSAgTWF0cm9uaWNzIExpc3QgRmVhdHVyZXMgTmF2aWdhdG9yIHRvIGJyb3dzZQ0KXy09 IHRoZSBtYW55IExpc3QgdXRpbGl0aWVzICBzdWNoIGFzIExpc3QgVW4vU3Vic2NyaXB0aW9uLA0K Xy09IEFyY2hpdmUgU2VhcmNoICYgRG93bmxvYWQsIDctRGF5ICBCcm93c2UsIENoYXQsIEZBUSwN Cl8tPSBQaG90b3NoYXJlLCBhbmQgbXVjaCBtdWNoICBtb3JlOg0KXy09DQpfLT0gICAtLT4gIGh0 dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9OYXZpZ2F0b3I/S0lTLUxpc3QNCl8tPQ0KXy09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCl8t PSAgIC0gTUFUUk9OSUNTIFdFQiBGT1JVTVMgIC0NCl8tPSBTYW1lIGdyZWF0IGNvbnRlbnQgYWxz byBhdmFpbGFibGUgdmlhIHRoZSBXZWIgIEZvcnVtcyENCl8tPQ0KXy09ICAgLS0+ICBodHRwOi8v Zm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NCl8tPQ0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCl8tPSAgIC0gTGlzdCBDb250cmlidXRp b24gV2ViIFNpdGUgIC0NCl8tPSAgVGhhbmsgeW91IGZvciB5b3VyIGdlbmVyb3VzIHN1cHBvcnQh DQpfLT0gICAgICAgIC1NYXR0IERyYWxsZSwgTGlzdCBBZG1pbi4NCl8tPSAgIC0tPiAgaHR0cDov L3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbg0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCg0KDQoNCg0K ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:58:13 AM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Re: KIS TR-1 Airfoil From: "Propellerjan" I did, you can not see them? 3 jpeg attached in the forum. Jan -------- www.jcpropellerdesign.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392995#392995 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:50 AM PST US From: Galin Hernandez Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: KIS TR-1 Airfoil No I couldn't see them. :0( On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Propellerjan wrote: > > I did, you can not see them? 3 jpeg attached in the forum. > > Jan > > -------- > www.jcpropellerdesign.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392995#392995 > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:01 AM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Re: KIS TR-1 Airfoil From: "Propellerjan" you have my e-mail there os go to my home page, and send your e-mail and I mail them to you, Jan -------- www.jcpropellerdesign.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392999#392999 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:02 AM PST US From: Robert Reed Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: KIS TR-1 Airfoil Galin, Clickon the following which was at the bottom of the posting: Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392995#392995 ________________________________ From: Galin Hernandez Sent: Thu, January 24, 2013 8:28:55 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: KIS TR-1 Airfoil No I couldn't see them. :0( On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Propellerjan wrote: > >I did, you can not see them? 3 jpeg attached in the forum. > >Jan > >-------- >www.jcpropellerdesign.com > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392995#392995 > > >========== >rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List >========== >http://forums.matronics.com >========== >le, List Admin. >="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >========== > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:35 AM PST US From: Robert Reed Subject: KIS-List: KIS Forum: Selling your plane? I received this as from the Pulsars Newsgroup and thought it might be of =0Ainterest:=0A=0A________________________________=0A=0A=C2- =0A=C2-Wit h so many Pulsars changeing hands as completed units and some partly =0Acom pleted I felt some new owners would find this article interesting=0A=C2- =0A=C2-=0AExtract=0A=C2-=0ARegulations Involving the Sale of Your Amate ur-Built=0A=0AThere are few regulations governing a sale of your airplane. The airworthiness =0Acertificate is transferable with the airplane even tho ugh it is experimental. =0A(FAR=C2-21.179) states that the proper bill of sale and registration documents must =0Abe completed when you sell the air plane. Of particular interest is the fact that =0Athe new owner may maintai n the newly purchased airplane, but may not perform the =0Acondition check. The repairman=99s certificate is not transferred with the =0Aairplan e. It remains with the original primary builder. That person legally may =0Astill perform the condition check if you can persuade them to do so. If you are =0Apurchasing a partially completed kit you need to obtain the prop er documentation =0Ato ensure you will meet the major portion rule.=C2-FA A Advisory Circular 20-27D=C2-has =0Athe following warning: "CAUTION: Pur chasers of partially completed kits should =0Aobtain all fabrication and as sembly records from the previous owner(s). This may =0Aenable the builder w ho completes the aircraft to be eligible for amateur-built =0Acertification ." Once again, a call to your FAA Inspector will prevent future =0Aproblems . The time spent by the original builder is usually applied toward the =0At otal time required to build the airplane. Documentation is necessary.=0A=C2 -=0AComplete Article=0A=C2-=0Ahttp://www.sportair.com/articles/Rules%20 &%20Regulations%20of%20Airplane%20Building.html=0A=0A__._,_.___ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:44 PM PST US From: Flyinisfun@aol.com Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: KIS TR-1 Airfoil Jan, Would this mod change the flight envelope, move it, widen it or what? Since it would increase lift, would it up the useful load? Thanks for your reply. Jesse Wright In a message dated 1/24/2013 8:27:06 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, robertr237@att.net writes: Galin, Clickon the following which was at the bottom of the posting: Read this topic online here: _http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392995#392995_ (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392995#392995) ____________________________________ From: Galin Hernandez Sent: Thu, January 24, 2013 8:28:55 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: KIS TR-1 Airfoil No I couldn't see them. :0( On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Propellerjan <_propellerdesign@tele2.se_ (mailto:propellerdesign@tele2.se) > wrote: (mailto:propellerdesign@tele2.se) > I did, you can not see them? 3 jpeg attached in the forum. Jan -------- _www.jcpropellerdesign.com_ (http://www.jcpropellerdesign.com/) Read this topic online here: _http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392995#392995_ (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392995#392995) ========== rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:06 PM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Re: KIS TR-1 Airfoil From: "Propellerjan" I will test it in virtual wind tunnel, and we see if it as good as Mr. Riblett say, what we can see is that the nose is corrected and this lead to increased camber, as seen the original nose is above the chord line, meaning it have less camber and initial mean line slope then the original mean line it self, due to the way Naca place the original uncambered airfoil 63A015 along the mean camber line. more camber give more lift and higher max CL, but due to the change in camber is at the first 10% the negative moment in unchanged. the dropped nose will increase the stall angle. It is late here, but I will pick the coordinates out tomorrow, and see what the DesignFoil program say. but as with all computer program they are poor at detached flow. Jan -------- www.jcpropellerdesign.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393020#393020 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.