---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 03/03/13: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:14 AM - SV: IO-240 alternator drive coupling (Hans Christian Erstad) 2. 01:16 AM - Additional owners and builders added to the list (mark_trickel) 3. 04:21 AM - Re: Additional owners and builders added to the list (William Schertz) 4. 05:08 AM - IO-240 alternator drive coupling (Owen Baker) 5. 11:59 AM - SV: IO-240 alternator drive coupling (Hans Christian Erstad) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:14:17 AM PST US From: "Hans Christian Erstad" Subject: SV: KIS-List: IO-240 alternator drive coupling Thanks John I am starting to think that the best solution is to convert to the older coupling mechanism (P/Nos 531325, 530407, 632050, 653982 and 653983) Aircraft spruce have these parts new, but it add up to $900.... so thanks for the sky-craft link ! This add to the list of modifications and repairs that have been done to my IO-240 due to mistakes/quality problems by TCM: 1. The oil channel that were missing on the first IO-240, and had to be drilled by a TCM employed mechanics that traveled to Norway to fix one engine(mine) 2. The TCM starter motor that failed after 20 h and I replaced with a B&C (at my own cost) 3. The Intake valve seal that was incorreclty fitted at the factory (a blind worker maybe?). I had to remove one cylinder, remove valve and fit a new seal (again at my own time and cost) Hans Christian _____ Fra: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] P=E5 vegne av JOHN JACKSON Sendt: 2. mars 2013 21:50 Til: kis-list@matronics.com Emne: Re: SV: KIS-List: IO-240 alternator drive coupling Hans Mine failed at 220 Hrs. I fitted P/Nos 531325, 530407, 632050, 653982 and 653983. Now have 405 hrs so i guess it's too early to tell if it was totally successful. However, my 'new' coupling has a mechanical linkage with rubber shock absorbtion so I don't see how the design can fail. I got my parts 'used' from Skycraft in the UK. I've just looked at their website and they may have the part you are looking for. Check here under 'Gear' http://www.sky-craft.co.uk/acatalog/Skycraft_New_Used_Continental_Engine_ Par ts.html John From: Hans Christian Erstad Sent: Saturday, 2 March 2013, 18:24 Subject: SV: KIS-List: IO-240 alternator drive coupling No, I did not know that was an option. Thanks. That is probable how Continental fiexed the problem instead of fixing the part. Hans Christian -----Opprinnelig melding----- Fra: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] P=E5 vegne av Mark Kettering Sendt: 2. mars 2013 19:15 Til: kis-list@matronics.com Emne: Re: KIS-List: IO-240 alternator drive coupling Have you thought about converting to a front belt mount alternator? I think the newer versions (B?) do this. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Hans Christian Erstad Sent: Mar 2, 2013 12:55 PM Subject: KIS-List: IO-240 alternator drive coupling I have read several postings about early failure of the IO-240 alternator drive coupling (P/N 635796). The coupling failed now at 337 hours in my IO-240 powered KIS. From other postings, it seems like this part never reaches 500 h, and cost a fortune to buy new (more than $2000), but may be overhauled for $600. The failure rates indicate to mee that this part (too) is a bad design. Apparently it is possible to replace the one piece coupling, with one that contain of several parts (531325, 530407, 632050, 653982, 653983) and have been used on other Continental (e.g. O-200). What have the experience been for you that have IO-240 ? Any suggestion for best place to get the one-piece overhauled? or suggestions for where to buy the serveal-piece alternative? Regards Hans Christian Erstad ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:16:14 AM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Additional owners and builders added to the list From: "mark_trickel" As the propeller turns - The search for the KIS fleet continues and our efforts were rewarded this week with 3 flying TR-1s added and 3 other TR-1s confirmed to the KIS builders and owners list. Jay Johnson, Daytona Beach, FL, USA - This builder was airworthy in early 2000 and is still the owner. Robert Hadley, Yorba Linda, CA, USA - owns a build by Vic Stanley, This build first flew in late 1997. A build by William Madden, new owner unknown but is now located in Middleburg Heights, OH, USA. First flown in early 1999. A build by Doyle Reed, new owner unknown but is now located in Pocahontas, AK, USA. First flown in late 1994. Now confirmed but not sure if she is airworthy, a TR-1 by Dennis Griswold is located in Oconomowoc, WI, USA. Charles Carlsen, Tehachapi, CA, USA, is now the owner of a build by Bill Arnold and Dave Klink from Ft.Collins, CO. First flown in mid 1996. As time permits we will reach out to these builders and owners and try to establish contact with them. I am sure they could add important experience to this ongoing project. I will send out updated copies of the list to those who already have received it once these airplanes are added to it. Any other builders and owners who do not have the list are entitled to receive this list, just let me know. Totals as of now are TR-1s 79 of 130, TR-4s 53 of 66, seeking 64 missing kits. Mark Trickel Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395482#395482 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:21:24 AM PST US From: "William Schertz" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Additional owners and builders added to the list Mark, I would like the list and updates as they come in. Bill Schertz #4045 TR-4 First flight 2009, 88 hours on it now. -----Original Message----- From: mark_trickel Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 3:16 AM Subject: KIS-List: Additional owners and builders added to the list As the propeller turns - The search for the KIS fleet continues and our efforts were rewarded this week with 3 flying TR-1s added and 3 other TR-1s confirmed to the KIS builders and owners list. Jay Johnson, Daytona Beach, FL, USA - This builder was airworthy in early 2000 and is still the owner. Robert Hadley, Yorba Linda, CA, USA - owns a build by Vic Stanley, This build first flew in late 1997. A build by William Madden, new owner unknown but is now located in Middleburg Heights, OH, USA. First flown in early 1999. A build by Doyle Reed, new owner unknown but is now located in Pocahontas, AK, USA. First flown in late 1994. Now confirmed but not sure if she is airworthy, a TR-1 by Dennis Griswold is located in Oconomowoc, WI, USA. Charles Carlsen, Tehachapi, CA, USA, is now the owner of a build by Bill Arnold and Dave Klink from Ft.Collins, CO. First flown in mid 1996. As time permits we will reach out to these builders and owners and try to establish contact with them. I am sure they could add important experience to this ongoing project. I will send out updated copies of the list to those who already have received it once these airplanes are added to it. Any other builders and owners who do not have the list are entitled to receive this list, just let me know. Totals as of now are TR-1s 79 of 130, TR-4s 53 of 66, seeking 64 missing kits. Mark Trickel Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395482#395482 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:08:38 AM PST US From: "Owen Baker " Subject: KIS-List: IO-240 alternator drive coupling 3/3/2013 Hello Hans Christian, I am sorry to read of your alternator drive coupling problem. The attached copy of TCM SB95-3B provides some relevant information. I think that you have a very good grasp of the four solutions to the problem. They are: a) purchase and install the multi piece coupling, b) convert to a front drive alternator, c) purchase and install a one piece coupling from CMI (Continental Motors Inc. -- new name), purchase and install an aftermarket rebuilt one piece coupling. Regarding each solution: a) The multi piece coupling was replaced by the one piece coupling as the one piece coupling was considered superior. That point may be debated. b) The IO-240 B3B engine in the Diamond DA 20-C1 airplane uses the front mounted alternator. One could maybe source the parts needed from a Diamond aircraft dealer. I don=99t know if that model airplane was ever introduced outside of the USA and Canada. In addition to obtaining and installing the front of the engine parts needed one would also have to seal off the left open alternator drive access hole in the rear of the engine. c) Purchase a one piece coupling from CMI. The most expensive initial course of action. d) The aftermarket one piece coupling can be purchased from these people: http://www.qualityaircraftaccessories.com/Default.aspx?A=ProductSearch& ID=/search-results&SE=True&q=635796 for an initial cost of $1,095.00 US. They are supposed to refund $500 US of that when they receive your returned old one piece core. Please let me know if I can be of further help. =98OC=99 'O C' Baker says "The best investment you can make is the effort to gather and understand information." = From: Hans Christian Erstad Sent: Mar 2, 2013 12:55 PM Subject: KIS-List: IO-240 alternator drive coupling I have read several postings about early failure of the IO-240 alternator drive coupling (P/N 635796). The coupling failed now at 337 hours in my IO-240 powered KIS. From other postings, it seems like this part never reaches 500 h, and cost a fortune to buy new (more than $2000), but may be overhauled for $600. The failure rates indicate to mee that this part (too) is a bad design. Apparently it is possible to replace the one piece coupling, with one that contain of several parts (531325, 530407, 632050, 653982, 653983) and have been used on other Continental (e.g. O-200). What have the experience been for you that have IO-240 ? Any suggestion for best place to get the one-piece overhauled? or suggestions for where to buy the serveal-piece alternative? Regards Hans Christian Erstad ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:59:10 AM PST US From: "Hans Christian Erstad" Subject: SV: KIS-List: IO-240 alternator drive coupling Thanks OC Yes, it sound like I have identified all options - and there are quite a few. Looking at the failed on-piece coupling, I think it is not designed to last, only to make money :-) I think the best option is to find used parts for the multi piece coupling, but buy new the bushing and retainer that according to SB95-3B is to be replaced every 500h. This Service Bulletin have been useful providing information on part numbers, torque etc. However it seems like the one-piece coupling never reaches 500h, so the SB is to no help there, apart from stating "The one piece coupling may be substituted for the coupling assembly shown in Figure 1." Maybe they issued the SB to infrom about this substitution when they realized that the one-piece is flawed. The SB calls for the couling to be tested for 100 inch punds of torque. Probably all 500h couplings will fail this test? and will require replacement with the substitute. Anyone know about a 500h coupling that have passed the test? Regards Hans Christian _____ Fra: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] P=E5 vegne av Owen Baker Sendt: 3. mars 2013 14:08 Til: ERSTAD HANS-CHRISTIAN; KIS-LIST MATRONICS Emne: KIS-List: IO-240 alternator drive coupling 3/3/2013 Hello Hans Christian, I am sorry to read of your alternator drive coupling problem. The attached copy of TCM SB95-3B provides some relevant information. I think that you have a very good grasp of the four solutions to the problem. They are: a) purchase and install the multi piece coupling, b) convert to a front drive alternator, c) purchase and install a one piece coupling from CMI (Continental Motors Inc. -- new name), purchase and install an aftermarket rebuilt one piece coupling. Regarding each solution: a) The multi piece coupling was replaced by the one piece coupling as the one piece coupling was considered superior. That point may be debated. b) The IO-240 B3B engine in the Diamond DA 20-C1 airplane uses the front mounted alternator. One could maybe source the parts needed from a Diamond aircraft dealer. I don=92t know if that model airplane was ever introduced outside of the USA and Canada. In addition to obtaining and installing the front of the engine parts needed one would also have to seal off the left open alternator drive access hole in the rear of the engine. c) Purchase a one piece coupling from CMI. The most expensive initial course of action. d) The aftermarket one piece coupling can be purchased from these people: http://www.qualityaircraftaccessories.com/Default.aspx?A=ProductSearch &ID=/search-results&SE=True&q=635796 for an initial cost of $1,095.00 US. They are supposed to refund $500 US of that when they receive your returned old one piece core. Please let me know if I can be of further help. =91OC=92 'O C' Baker says "The best investment you can make is the effort to gather and understand information." = From: Hans Christian Erstad Sent: Mar 2, 2013 12:55 PM Subject: KIS-List: IO-240 alternator drive coupling I have read several postings about early failure of the IO-240 alternator drive coupling (P/N 635796). The coupling failed now at 337 hours in my IO-240 powered KIS. From other postings, it seems like this part never reaches 500 h, and cost a fortune to buy new (more than $2000), but may be overhauled for $600. The failure rates indicate to mee that this part (too) is a bad design. Apparently it is possible to replace the one piece coupling, with one that contain of several parts (531325, 530407, 632050, 653982, 653983) and have been used on other Continental (e.g. O-200). What have the experience been for you that have IO-240 ? Any suggestion for best place to get the one-piece overhauled? or suggestions for where to buy the serveal-piece alternative? Regards Hans Christian Erstad ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.