Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:22 AM - Re: center stick question (Owen Baker)
2. 07:28 AM - Re: center stick question (Owen Baker)
3. 08:09 AM - Re: center stick question (Robert Reed)
4. 08:59 AM - Re: center stick question (ALFRED ROSA)
5. 11:34 AM - Re: center stick question (Scott Stearns)
6. 12:43 PM - Re: center stick question (Owen Baker)
7. 02:02 PM - Carbon fiber panel (Galin Hernandez)
8. 02:10 PM - Re: center stick question (Owen Baker)
9. 03:27 PM - Re: center stick question (Graham Brighton)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: center stick question |
4/18/2013
Hello Bob Reed, Thank you for the answers copied below. You wrote:
1) =9CActually shouldn't be that difficult to keep a pad on the
center console and write with right hand and fly with left crossed over.
=9Cdifficult=9D in any degree is not something that you want
to deliberately build into the controls of an aircraft. But there is a
very nice solution to the problem of providing full and appropriate
access to a center stick and that is the T bar cyclic design used in the
Robinson helicopters. See here:
http://www.helicoptersonly.com/contents/en-us/p1600.html
Or, if this URL does not come through, just google Robinson cyclic
control.
Note that the portion of the horizontal T bar that extends over to the
co pilot=99s side can be quickly removed or replaced.
2) =9CI have considered separate controls for the throttle but the
majority of my flying will be just me and my wife or me alone.=9D
When building an experimental amateur built aircraft one should keep in
mind that someday yourself, your widow, or your children will be
attempting to sell the aircraft and the reaction of potential buyers to
unusual configuration features may affect its sales appeal.
OC
=====================
From: Robert Reed
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: center stick question
See Below:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
From: Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net>
Sent: Wed, April 17, 2013 11:28:18 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: center stick question
4/17/2013
Hello Bob Reed, Thanks for the quick response and the very interesting
design modification. May I ask a few questions?
1) So the single center control stick is to the right of pilot=99s
right leg and to the left of the co pilot=99s left leg as they
are seated in the cockpit?
Correct!
2) If the answer to 1 is YES then the pilot really has normal access to
the stick only with his right hand and the co pilot only has normal
access to the stick with his left hand, correct?
Correct again!
3) Does it follow then that while flying the pilot must control the
throttle with his left hand and the co pilot must control the throttle
with his right hand?
Correct again assuming dual throttle controls.
4) If the answer to 3 is YES then the pilot and co pilot must each have
access to a separate throttle control mounted either on the fuselage
inside or on the far left and right corners of the instrument panel,
correct?
YES!
5) And are you going to provide two separate side throttle controls?
NO! I have considered separate controls for the throttle but the
majority of my flying will be just me and my wife or me alone. A
separate throttle could be incorporated if needed.
6) When a right handed pilot is flying along with his kneeboard on top
of his right thigh, his right hand on the center control stick, and ATC
makes a radio transmission that the pilot must copy, how does he write
it down?
Very Carefully! Actually shouldn't be that difficult to keep a pad on
the center console and write with right hand and fly with left crossed
over. It's not like the control stick will be out of reach on either
side.
Thanks for helping me understand your modification.
OC
PS: You wrote: =9C....... didn't want the complications of the
yoke system that you are using.=9D
I have the standard control stick arrangement on my KIS TR-1 with the
two control sticks coming up between the pilot=99s and co
pilot=99s legs. I think that it was Al Rosa who installed a two
yoke system in his KIS four place.
Sorry, I thought it was you for some reason. Ted Scott was also using
the yoke system if I recall correctly this time.
===============
From: Robert Reed
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 10:05 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: center stick question
Owen,
The why was to keep the KISS while still giving me the ability to have
adjustable seats without a stick coming up between the legs. I wanted
to maintain the same dynamics as the controls in the original kit and
didn't want the complications of the yoke system that you are using. I
sketched out a couple of ideas and passed them to Vance who refined them
and produced the final control. It keeps the same push rod control for
the elevator and just uses a couple of longer control rods for the
connections to the aileron rocker arms. It keeps it SIMPLE
There is a drawing and a couple of photos at:
http://www.kisbuild.onfinal18.com/MyControlStick.html#Control
I didn't take any photos of the installation when I did the trial fit on
the wings but everything worked as planned and all controls worked as
designed.
Bob
=========
From: Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net>
Sent: Wed, April 17, 2013 5:49:20 AM
Subject: KIS-List: center stick question
4/17/2013
Hello Robert Reed, You wrote: "Vance also came up with the center stick
that I am going to be using."
I am not familiar with this center stick modification. Can you please
post a description of it, maybe even a picture, and tell us why you are
using it?
Thanks,
OC
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: center stick question |
4/18/2013
Hello Scott, You wrote: ".... we may run the forward pitch tube under the
fuselage to open up as much interior space as possible."
Do you mean actually outside the bottom of the fuselage exposed to the air
flow and elements?
OC
================================================================================
From: Scott Stearns
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: center stick question
I went with a center stick on my TR-1. It is very comfortable to fly with
your fore arm resting on the center console and not have the stick between
your legs, and your passengers legs, makes long trips a lot better. I love
being able to fly with my iPad or my lunch in my lap.
The Cruiser Mark K and I are building will have a center stick and we may
run the forward pitch tube under the fuselage to open up as much interior
space as possible.
Like OC said the big concideration is that only your right hand can reach
the controls so you need to be able to operate the radios, flaps, lights,
etc with your left hand so those controls need to be on the left side of the
panel.
There is a picture of my panel on Bob Reeds site showing the switches and
autopilot on the far left of the panel and the Garmin 430 on the
center-left. Works great.
I can send picture of my center stick mechanism if anyone would like to see
it.
Scott
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: center stick question |
Owen,=0A=0AIf we were talking about a stick position that was more out of t
he way than just =0Aaccross your lap I would fully agree but I have sat in
my seats and done trials =0Awith the stick and using my left hand on it was
n't a problem.=C2- I also didn't =0Afind any issues with using my left ha
nd to reach the radio and other controls in =0Athe center position.=C2- S
ince there are no obstructions such as the stick in your =0Alap or the much
larger yoke setup in the way, reaching anything on the pilot =0Aside is ve
ry easy.=0A=0AI have also considered that an easy fix if needed would be a
short side =0Aextension to the stick that could be turned to either the pil
ot or copilot side =0Awhen desired to turned to a forward position out of t
he way when not needed.=C2- It =0Awould allow for basically the same posi
tioning as the between the leggs stick.=C2- =0AI will look into this opti
on if I encounter a problem with the center position.=C2- =0A=0A=0AAs for
the sales appeal for the future, I am building this plane for ME not =0Aso
meone else and while I may eventually need to sell it that is not my primar
y =0Aconcern today.=C2- I have thought about dual throttle controls but h
aven't been =0Aable to come up with a design that I thought would be effect
ive without actually =0Amaking the controls less safe.=C2- I would welcom
e any design suggestions that =0Awould work without a huge amount of time a
nd money.=0A=0ABob=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Owen
Baker <bakerocb@cox.net>=0ATo: Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net>; KIS-LIST
MATRONICS =0A<kis-list@matronics.com>; sstearns2@yahoo.com=0ASent: Thu, Apr
il 18, 2013 9:22:22 AM=0ASubject: Re: KIS-List: center stick question=0A=0A
=0A4/18/2013=0A=0AHello Bob Reed, Thank you for the answers copied below. Y
ou wrote: =0A=0A1) =9CActually shouldn't be that difficult to keep a
pad on the center console and =0Awrite with right hand and fly with left cr
ossed over.=0A=C2-=0A=9Cdifficult=9D in any degree is not som
ething that you want to deliberately build =0Ainto the controls of an aircr
aft. But there is a very nice solution to the =0Aproblem of providing full
and appropriate access to a center stick and that is =0Athe T bar cyclic de
sign used in the Robinson helicopters. See here:=0A=0Ahttp://www.helicopter
sonly.com/contents/en-us/p1600.html=0A=0AOr, if this URL does not come thro
ugh, just google Robinson cyclic control.=0A=0ANote that the portion of the
horizontal T bar that extends over to the co =0Apilot=99s side can b
e quickly removed or replaced.=0A=0A2) =9CI have considered separate
controls for the throttle but the majority of my =0Aflying will be just me
and my wife or me alone.=9D=0A=C2-=0AWhen building an experimental
amateur built aircraft one should keep in mind =0Athat someday yourself, yo
ur widow, or your children will be attempting to sell =0Athe aircraft and t
he reaction of potential buyers to unusual configuration =0Afeatures may af
fect its sales appeal.=0A=0AOC=0A=0A=============
==========C2-=0AFrom: Robert Reed =0ASent: Wednesday, A
pril 17, 2013 3:46 PM=0ATo: Owen Baker =0ASubject: Re: KIS-List: center sti
ck question=0ASee Below:=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A=0AF
rom: Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net>=0ATo: kis-list@matronics.com; robertr237
@att.net=0ASent: Wed, April 17, 2013 11:28:18 AM=0ASubject: Re: KIS-List: c
enter stick question=0A=0A=C2-=0ACorrect!=0A=0A2) If the answer to 1 is Y
ES then the pilot really has normal access to the =0Astick only with his ri
ght hand and the co pilot only has normal access to the =0Astick with his l
eft hand, correct?=0A=0ACorrect again!=0A=0A3) Does it follow then that whi
le flying the pilot must control the throttle =0Awith his left hand and the
co pilot must control the throttle with his right =0Ahand?=0A=0ACorrect ag
ain assuming dual throttle controls.=0A=0A4) If the answer to 3 is YES then
the pilot and co pilot must each have access =0Ato a separate throttle con
trol mounted either on the fuselage inside or on the =0Afar left and right
corners of the instrument panel, correct?=0A=0AYES!=0A=0A5) And are you goi
ng to provide two separate side throttle controls?=0A=0ANO!=C2- I have co
nsidered separate controls for the throttle but the majority of my =0Aflyin
g will be just me and my wife or me alone.=C2- A separate throttle could
be =0Aincorporated if needed.=0A=0A6) When a right handed pilot is flying a
long with his kneeboard on top of his =0Aright thigh, his right hand on the
center control stick, and ATC makes a radio =0Atransmission that the pilot
must copy, how does he write it down?=0A=0AVery Carefully!=C2- Actually
shouldn't be that difficult to keep a pad on the =0Acenter console and writ
e with right hand and fly with left crossed over.=C2- It's =0Anot like th
e control stick will be out of reach on either side.=C2- =0A=0A=C2-=0AT
hanks for helping me understand your modification.=0A=0AOC=0A=0APS: You wro
te: =9C....... didn't want the complications of the yoke system that
=0Ayou are using.=9D=0A=0AI have the standard control stick arrangeme
nt on my KIS TR-1 with the two =0Acontrol sticks coming up between the pilo
t=99s and co pilot=99s legs. I think that =0Ait was Al Rosa who
installed a two yoke system in his KIS four place.=0A=0ASorry, I thought i
t was you for some reason.=C2- Ted Scott was also using the yoke =0Asyste
m if I recall correctly this time.=C2- =0A=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=0A==
===============0A=0AFrom: Robert Reed=0ASent: W
ednesday, April 17, 2013 10:05 AM=0ATo: kis-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: R
e: KIS-List: center stick question=0A=0AOwen,=0A=0AThe why was to keep the
KISS while still giving me the ability to have =0Aadjustable seats without
a stick coming up between the legs.=C2- I wanted to =0Amaintain the same
dynamics as the controls in the original kit and didn't want =0Athe complic
ations of the yoke system that you are using.=C2- I sketched out a =0Acou
ple of ideas and passed them to Vance who refined them and produced the fin
al =0Acontrol.=C2- It keeps the same push rod control for the elevator an
d just uses a =0Acouple of longer control rods for the connections to the a
ileron rocker arms.=C2- =0AIt keeps it SIMPLE=0A=0AThere is a drawing and
a couple of photos at:=0A=0Ahttp://www.kisbuild.onfinal18.com/MyControlSti
ck.html#Control=0AI didn't take any photos of the installation when I did t
he trial fit on the =0Awings but everything worked as planned and all contr
ols worked as designed.=0A=0ABob=0A=0A============
========================0A=0A
From: Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net>=0ATo: robertr237@att.net; KIS-LIST MATR
ONICS <kis-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Wed, April 17, 2013 5:49:20 AM=0ASub
"Owen Baker " <bakerocb@cox.net>=0A=0A4/17/2013=0A=0AHello Robert Reed, You
wrote: "Vance also came up with the center stick that I =0Aam going to be
using."=0A=0AI am not familiar with this center stick modification. Can you
please post a =0Adescription of it, maybe even a picture, and tell us why
you are using it?=0A=0AThanks,=0A=0AOC =0A=0A4/17/2013=0A=0AHello Bob Reed,
Thanks for the quick response and the very interesting design =0Amodificat
ion. May I ask a few questions?=0A=0A1) So the single center control stick
is to the right of pilot=99s right leg and =0Ato the left=C2- of th
======== =0A
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: center stick question |
OC,
Going one step further, a single "throw over" stick or yoke that is used in
some aircraft, would be better I think.
Al
On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
> 4/18/2013
>
> Hello Bob Reed, Thank you for the answers copied below. You wrote:
>
> 1) =93Actually shouldn't be that difficult to keep a pad on the center
> console and write with right hand and fly with left crossed over.
>
> =93difficult=94 in any degree is not something that you want to deliberat
ely
> build into the controls of an aircraft. But there is a very nice solution
> to the problem of providing full and appropriate access to a center stick
> and that is the T bar cyclic design used in the Robinson helicopters. See
> here:
>
> http://www.helicoptersonly.com/contents/en-us/p1600.html
>
> Or, if this URL does not come through, just google Robinson cyclic contro
l.
>
> Note that the portion of the horizontal T bar that extends over to the co
> pilot=92s side can be quickly removed or replaced.
>
> 2) =93I have considered separate controls for the throttle but the majori
ty
> of my flying will be just me and my wife or me alone.=94
>
> When building an experimental amateur built aircraft one should keep in
> mind that someday yourself, your widow, or your children will be attempti
ng
> to sell the aircraft and the reaction of potential buyers to unusual
> configuration features may affect its sales appeal.
>
> OC
>
> ========================
======================
>
> *From:* Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 17, 2013 3:46 PM
> *To:* Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net>
> *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: center stick question
>
> See Below:
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net>
> *To:* kis-list@matronics.com; robertr237@att.net
> *Sent:* Wed, April 17, 2013 11:28:18 AM
> *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: center stick question
>
> 4/17/2013
>
> Hello Bob Reed, Thanks for the quick response and the very interesting
> design modification. May I ask a few questions?
>
> 1) So the single center control stick is to the right of pilot=92s right
leg
> and to the left of the co pilot=92s left leg as they are seated in the
> cockpit?
>
> Correct!
>
> 2) If the answer to 1 is YES then the pilot really has normal access to
> the stick only with his right hand and the co pilot only has normal acces
s
> to the stick with his left hand, correct?
> Correct again!
>
> 3) Does it follow then that while flying the pilot must control the
> throttle with his left hand and the co pilot must control the throttle wi
th
> his right hand?
> Correct again assuming dual throttle controls.
>
> 4) If the answer to 3 is YES then the pilot and co pilot must each have
> access to a separate throttle control mounted either on the fuselage insi
de
> or on the far left and right corners of the instrument panel, correct?
> YES!
>
> 5) And are you going to provide two separate side throttle controls?
> NO! I have considered separate controls for the throttle but the majorit
y
> of my flying will be just me and my wife or me alone. A separate throttl
e
> could be incorporated if needed.
>
> 6) When a right handed pilot is flying along with his kneeboard on top of
> his right thigh, his right hand on the center control stick, and ATC make
s
> a radio transmission that the pilot must copy, how does he write it down?
>
> Very Carefully! Actually shouldn't be that difficult to keep a pad on th
e
> center console and write with right hand and fly with left crossed over.
> It's not like the control stick will be out of reach on either side.
>
> Thanks for helping me understand your modification.
>
> OC
>
> PS: You wrote: =93....... didn't want the complications of the yoke syste
m
> that you are using.=94
>
> I have the standard control stick arrangement on my KIS TR-1 with the two
> control sticks coming up between the pilot=92s and co pilot=92s legs. I t
hink
> that it was Al Rosa who installed a two yoke system in his KIS four place
.
> Sorry, I thought it was you for some reason. Ted Scott was also using th
e
> yoke system if I recall correctly this time.
>
>
> ===============
>
> From: Robert Reed
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 10:05 AM
> To: kis-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: center stick question
>
> Owen,
>
> The why was to keep the KISS while still giving me the ability to have
> adjustable seats without a stick coming up between the legs. I wanted to
> maintain the same dynamics as the controls in the original kit and didn't
> want the complications of the yoke system that you are using. I sketched
> out a couple of ideas and passed them to Vance who refined them and
> produced the final control. It keeps the same push rod control for the
> elevator and just uses a couple of longer control rods for the connection
s
> to the aileron rocker arms. It keeps it SIMPLE
>
> There is a drawing and a couple of photos at:
>
> http://www.kisbuild.onfinal18.com/MyControlStick.html#Control
> I didn't take any photos of the installation when I did the trial fit on
> the wings but everything worked as planned and all controls worked as
> designed.
>
> Bob
>
> ========================
>
> From: Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net>
> To: robertr237@att.net; KIS-LIST MATRONICS <kis-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wed, April 17, 2013 5:49:20 AM
> Subject: KIS-List: center stick question
>
>
> 4/17/2013
>
> Hello Robert Reed, You wrote: "Vance also came up with the center stick
> that I am going to be using."
>
> I am not familiar with this center stick modification. Can you please pos
t
> a description of it, maybe even a picture, and tell us why you are using
it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> OC
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: center stick question |
Hi OC,=0A-=0AYes, but there would be a fairing running down the belly.-
There would be a bellcrank under the baggage compartment floor to transiti
on back to a tube inside the fuselage.- =0A-=0AScott=0A =0A=0A_________
_______________________=0A From: Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net>=0ATo: kis-li
st@matronics.com; sstearns2@yahoo.com =0ASent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 7:2
8 AM=0ASubject: Re: KIS-List: center stick question=0A =0A=0A--> KIS-List
message posted by: "Owen Baker " <bakerocb@cox.net>=0A=0A4/18/2013=0A=0AHel
lo Scott, You wrote: ".... we may run the forward pitch tube under the fuse
lage to open up as much interior space as possible."=0A=0ADo you mean actua
lly outside the bottom of the fuselage exposed to the air flow and elements
?=0A=0AOC=0A=0A====================
============0A=0AFrom: Scott Stearns=0ASent: Wednesda
y, April 17, 2013 3:25 PM=0ATo: kis-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: KIS-L
ns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>=0A=0AI went with a center stick on my TR-1.- It
is very comfortable to fly with your fore arm resting on the center console
and not have the stick between your legs, and your passengers legs, makes
long trips a lot better.- I love being able to fly with my iPad or my lu
nch in my lap.=0A=0AThe Cruiser Mark K and I are building will have a cente
r stick and we may run the forward pitch tube under the fuselage to open up
as much interior space as possible.=0A=0ALike OC said the big concideratio
n is that only your right hand can reach the controls so you need to be abl
e to operate the radios, flaps, lights, etc with your left hand so those co
ntrols need to be on the left side of the panel.=0A=0AThere is a picture of
my panel on Bob Reeds site showing the switches and autopilot on the far l
eft of the panel and the Garmin 430 on the center-left.- Works great.=0A
=0AI can send picture of my center stick mechanism if anyone would like to
=========================0A
======================
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: center stick question |
4/18/2013
Hello Al Rosa, Some day the owner / primary pilot will be demonstrating
(for sale maybe), or instructing (formally or otherwise) while sitting
in the left pilot=92s seat with the throw over control over on the co
pilots side.
The co pilot / student / prospective buyer will do something so
unexpected (stupid) and sudden that before the throw over control can be
returned to the pilot for him to salvage the situation the aircraft will
be damaged ' or worse.
I have not seen everything in my 63 years of maintaining aircraft and 55
years of flying them, but I have seen enough to know that mighty bad
unexpected things can happen very quickly. It should be the builder=92s
goal to prevent such events with sound design and construction.
The Robinson T bar design always gives the pilot in command access to
the stick **and the removable section for the co pilot gives the option
of having it there or not.
OC
**PS: Even with that ready access to the control stick for the pilot in
command / instructor the history of the Robinson helicopter is filled
with accidents wherein the instructor / pilot in command was not quick
enough to salvage the situation. I believe that the number of Robinson
helicopter accidents would be at least triple the actual number of
accidents if the design had a throw over control.
PPS: As an exercise in education one could google =93throw over control
accidents=94. Here is an extract from the accident report on just one of
URL=92s that shows up:
=93Factors in the accident were the flight instructor's inability to
take remedial action because the airplane was not equipped with a full
set of dual flight controls.=94
From: ALFRED ROSA
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: center stick question
OC,
Going one step further, a single "throw over" stick or yoke that is used
in some aircraft, would be better I think.
Al
Message 7
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| Subject: | Carbon fiber panel |
Cody, did you get the pictures I sent you of the carbon fiber panel?
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: center stick question |
4/18/2013
Hello Robert Reed, Thanks for your response. You wrote:
1) =9CI also didn't find any issues with using my left hand to
reach the radio and other controls in the center position.=9D
I understand and agree that there would be no issues if the cockpit is
designed for left handed access for the individual sitting in the left
seat. My primary concern is with the awkwardness / difficulty involved
in right handed writing on a knee board or center console writing pad
while controlling the airplane with a left arm crossed over (or under?)
the right arm.
2) =9CI have also considered that an easy fix if needed would be a
short side extension to the stick that could be turned to either the
pilot or copilot side when desired to turned to a forward position out
of the way when not needed.
There is an easy inexpensive fix, but it is not some version of a throw
over control. Please see my response to Al Rosa=99s throw over
control suggestion.
3) =9CI have also considered that an easy fix if needed would be a
short side extension to the stick.....=9D and =9CI would
welcome any design suggestions that would work without a huge amount of
time and money.=9D
And that suggestion is to adapt something similar to the Robinson
helicopter pivoting horizontal T bar. Please check it out =93 I
say again: easy and inexpensive.
4) =9CI have thought about dual throttle controls but haven't been
able to come up with a design that I thought would be effective without
actually making the controls less safe.=9D
I understand and consider the dual throttle situation more difficult to
resolve than the center stick situation. I can offer no easy,
inexpensive solution.
5) =9CAs for the sales appeal for the future, I am building this
plane for ME not someone else and while I may eventually need to sell it
that is not my primary concern today.=9D
Correct, not a primary concern, but also not something that should be
totally ignored if eventual acceptance to a buyer (sales appeal) can be
accommodated safely, easily, and inexpensively. But it may not be you
that is selling the airplane =93 put yourself in the position of
your widow or child who is selling this airplane, hopefully, many years
from now. ## The majority of potential buyers want a level of comfort
created by the familiar, ** not the exotic or unusual that is off
putting, or will require some effort on their part to accept and
=9Ccorrect=9D (in their mind).
OC
##PS: For all KIS builders, owners, pilots -- please take a look into
what may be in the really far future, or not. When that proverbial beer
truck accidentally squashes you like a bug who is going to assist your
widow with demonstrating and assisting in selling your airplane? We have
had some of our EAA Chapter members who had built experimental amateur
built airplanes pass away. While none of their passings, so far, have
been sudden and accidental the problem of having some one capable of
demonstrating and assisting the widow with selling their airplanes was
very real. My solution is to pick a friend that I trust, and who was
willing, put him on my (liability only) insurance policy, and have him
fly my KIS TR-1 about once a quarter so that he can conduct
demonstration flights if needed.
**PPS: Look at the sales success of the Cirrus line of airplanes. It can
largely be attributed to the fact that the cockpit looks very much like
the Mercedes Benz, Lexus, Infinity, or other luxury automobile interiors
that the potential buyer is familiar with. (Yes, we have pilots, or
would be pilots, who are largely influenced by appearances alone
=93 check out some of the pilot error Cirrus airplane accidents.)
=====
From: Robert Reed
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: center stick question
Owen,
If we were talking about a stick position that was more out of the way
than just accross your lap I would fully agree but I have sat in my
seats and done trials with the stick and using my left hand on it wasn't
a problem. I also didn't find any issues with using my left hand to
reach the radio and other controls in the center position. Since there
are no obstructions such as the stick in your lap or the much larger
yoke setup in the way, reaching anything on the pilot side is very easy.
I have also considered that an easy fix if needed would be a short side
extension to the stick that could be turned to either the pilot or
copilot side when desired to turned to a forward position out of the way
when not needed. It would allow for basically the same positioning as
the between the leggs stick. I will look into this option if I
encounter a problem with the center position.
As for the sales appeal for the future, I am building this plane for ME
not someone else and while I may eventually need to sell it that is not
my primary concern today. I have thought about dual throttle controls
but haven't been able to come up with a design that I thought would be
effective without actually making the controls less safe. I would
welcome any design suggestions that would work without a huge amount of
time and money.
Bob
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| Subject: | Re: center stick question |
Hi Guys,
I reworked my Stick to lighten the adjust Aileron feel
.. and to be able to have my lapboard/Ipad etc on my lap .... also nice
to have retracted for xcountry with the wing leveler engaged etc too
Bit novel but works fine fine ..!
Graham
.
From: Scott Stearns
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 4:33 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: center stick question
Hi OC,
Yes, but there would be a fairing running down the belly. There would
be a bellcrank under the baggage compartment floor to transition back to
a tube inside the fuselage.
Scott
From: Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 7:28 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: center stick question
4/18/2013
Hello Scott, You wrote: ".... we may run the forward pitch tube under
the fuselage to open up as much interior space as possible."
Do you mean actually outside the bottom of the fuselage exposed to the
air flow and elements?
OC
=====
From: Scott Stearns
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: center stick question
I went with a center stick on my TR-1. It is very comfortable to fly
with your fore arm resting on the center console and not have the stick
between your legs, and your passengers legs, makes long trips a lot
better. I love being able to fly with my iPad or my lunch in my lap.
The Cruiser Mark K and I are building will have a center stick and we
may run the forward pitch tube under the fuselage to open up as much
interior space as possible.
Like OC said the big concideration is that only your right hand can
reach the controls so you need to be able to operate the radios, flaps,
lights, etc with your left hand so those controls need to be on the left
side of the panel.
There is a picture of my panel on Bob Reeds site showing the switches
and autopilot on the far left of the panel and the Garmin 430 on the
center-left. Works great.
I can send picture of my center stick mechanism if anyone would like to
see sp; - List Contribution Web Site -
_;
&nbs================
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