---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/23/13: 1 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:54 AM - Re: Control Force Harmony (ALFRED ROSA) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:08 AM PST US Subject: Re: KIS-List: Control Force Harmony From: ALFRED ROSA I extended the elevator 1 1/2". Procedure is posted on Bob's web site. Al On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 2:14 AM, jerzy krasinski < jerzy_krasinski@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > I forgot the exact number, would have to go to the airport and measurem > but it was just below 2 inches. > It was TR4 > Jerzy > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Galin Hernandez > *To:* "kis-list@matronics.com" > *Sent:* Mon, April 22, 2013 5:05:43 PM > *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: Control Force Harmony > > Jerzy.. How many inches did you add? Is this for the TR4 or TR1? > > > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 2:40 PM, jerzy krasinski < > jerzy_krasinski@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >> I added a couple of inches to the elevator extending it backwards. >> This increased authority of the elevator and increased forces on the >> elevator harmonizing the elevator and the ailerons >> without any additional mechano-electro-springo gizmos. >> >> Jerzy >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Graham Brighton >> *To:* kis-list@matronics.com >> *Sent:* Mon, April 22, 2013 1:57:09 AM >> *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: Control Force Harmony >> >> gbrighton@skymesh.com.au> >> >> Hi OC, >> Thx for ur great reply ... neat idea to work the Springs i n >> compression ..... think i get it ok .. but would be good to see the inst all >> .... do have any Pics at all .. ?? >> Cheers >> Graham >> >> . >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Owen Baker " >> Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 5:23 AM >> To: "BRIGHTON GRAHAM" ; "KIS-LIST MATRONICS" < >> kis-list@matronics.com> >> Subject: KIS-List: Control Force Harmony >> >> > >> > 4/21/2013 >> > >> > Hello Graham, You wrote: =93Am surprised someone hasn't come up with s ome >> sort of fail safe dampener devise to enable Elevator input feel to be >> adjusted to harmonise together with Aileron input feel .... , probably >> there is ... but i just haven't stumbled across it sob ..,!?? , anybody >> ..??,=94 >> > >> > There is such a device and I have one installed on my KIS TR-1. Read >> about it in my KIS list 1/7/2006 posting copied here: >> > >> > "1/7/2006 Hello Bill, There is more to this pitch trim by springs >> system than meets the eye. The typical system uses two springs in tensio n >> with an arm that moves the spring center connect point to adjust. This >> works, but as you have discovered has some sloppyness or imprecision to it. >> Maybe because the two springs are always in play. A local Glasair builde r >> has developed a spring trim system that is superior. Can be used for pit ch, >> aileron, or rudder. It consists of two springs in compression between th e >> ends of a tube and a rod sliding within that tube with a nylon slider bl ock >> which acts as a center stop between the two springs. The slider block is >> normally connected to an electric trim positioning motor and the end of the >> rod is connected to the control surface bellcrank. The result is a much >> more positive repositioning capability of the trim center point and the >> fact that when either control input is made or aerodynamic forces move t he >> control surface only one spring is in play, the one being compressed. >> Adjustment of the trim center point is accomplished by operating the >> electric trim positioning motor. Contact me if interested in pursuing th is >> idea further. OC" >> > >> > My motivation for installing this device was to accomplish pitch trim >> without having a tab installed on my elevator, it could also be installe d >> for the purpose of changing pitch control forces with the trim capabilit y >> just an added benefit. By changing the length of the tube and rod, the >> springs installed on each, and (for fine tuning) spacers on either the t ube >> or rod to increase initial spring compression force one can achieve an >> almost infinite number of variable stick force required to move the >> elevator in either direction. >> > >> > OC >> > >> > PS: One caveat -- To take true advantage of this system for pitch trim >> one must have sufficient travel of the linear actuator to achieve the >> desired maximum nose up and maximum nose down pitch conditions desired. The >> puny 1.2 inch travel of a Ray Allen servo is not likely to do the job. >> > >> > ======================= ==== >> > >> > Saturday, April 20, 2013 7:54 AM >> > >> > Hi OC, >> > Sorry didn't mean something was specially wrong .... Is >> that most lighties share that common lack of harmony of control feel wit h >> roll and pitch .... , >> > With our Ailerons which are specially wholesome ( non tapered) .. some >> 'leverage' ... is going to be required .. (specially with increased spee d >> !) ... >> > >> > Where as elevators are mostly light ..!? .. In theory achieving >> mechanical leverage advantage in equal measure to arrive at uniform cont rol >> input between pitch and roll is straight fwd .... but carn't think of an y ( >> admit am only ppl and not flown very many types ..!) .., that have achie ved >> it ..?! >> > >> > Playing with bell crank ratios is the logical way .. but would be >> super laborious I'm sure ... With my adjustable length stick ... roll is as >> light/heavy as my personal preference ( for whatever speed .. ) .... >> However pitch which is normally light gets lighter with extra leverage >> grrr .... Am surprised someone hasn't come up with some sort of fail sa fe >> dampener devise to enable Elevator input feel to be adjusted to harmonis e >> together with Aileron input feel .... , probably there is ... but i just >> haven't stumbled across it sob ..,!?? , anybody ..??, >> > >> > Anyway am happy at present to retract down the stick for xcrountry >> legs and map reading/iPad etc ..., >> > >> > Just was that stick position came up that's all ... , >> > Cheers >> >= --> http://forums.matronics.comsp; >> -nics.com/contribution" ====== >> >> >> >> >> >> * >> >> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronic s.ctarget="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.mat ron--> > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.