Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:27 AM - Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 (Kevin Alderman)
2. 06:08 AM - Catto Propeller (Galin Hernandez)
3. 06:10 AM - Re: Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 (Graham Brighton)
4. 06:46 AM - Re: Catto Propeller (William Schertz)
5. 05:11 PM - Re: Catto Propeller (Galin Hernandez)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 |
A turbine is a good engine, but not for our general use. The biggest factor
is fuel burn There is a small helicopter that uses a 100 hp SOLAS turbine
for power. It is small, light and responsive. It burns 9 GPH at idle on the
ground, and making 100 HP it burns closer to 14 GPH. Turbines are great for
high altitude high speed flight, for flight in our normal flight regime it
will work but the fuel costs are multitudes higher.
Also, turbines such as the SOLAS operate at high speeds around 50,000 RPM,
and as such need a gearbox to reduce the engine speed to prop speed. The
Helicopter supplier makes their own, you would have to find one somewhere.
Turbines have a very very narrow power and engine speed range. The power is
varied by a CS prop. Your gearbox will have to be able to support a CS prop
and include a governor. The engine itself will (or should) have a
controller that controls/ limits engine RPM, but you will still need a
method of controlling the prop pitch.
In a turboprop like a Pilatus, it goes like this: The engine is started at
ground idle, which is a turbine speed of around 80% of flight speed, i.e.
40K RPM. After warm up and taxi, the engine is brought up to flight cruise
power and the prop is cycled somewhat similar to our run-up with a piston
recip. For takeoff, the throttle is pushed to takeoff and the prop full
forward for maximum THRUST. At altitude, the throttle is pulled back to
flight cruise, the prop placed in cruise and off we go.
Turbine engines are only cost efficient at high altitudes and high speeds.
Most jet operators will tell you that if they had to fly below 30K feet all
the time they couldn't afford the fuel.
Another added benefit of a turbine is pressurization- they take compressed
high pressure air from the cold- compressor- section and send it into the
cabin. The air is hot from compression, and doubles as cabin heat. If you
aren't going to fly at the flight levels, this is another waste of power.
I am building a Wheeler Express- after flights to Central America, the
Bahamas, and other places that do not have Avgas, I thought about a 300HP
turbine. My plane with a 300 HP gas engine will burn around 12 gph at 180
kts at 14,500 ft. My 100 gal fuel capacity will give me more than a 1000
mile range. The 300 HP turbine fuel burn is closer to 28 GPH in flight even
at FL 180. Cuts my range in half, even though I gain 30 kts in speed.
Kevin Alderman
Avionics Tech/ Aircraft restoration
Building a Wheeler Express with a Mazda Rotary 13B turbo- 300 HP- 3 moving
parts.
On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 3:00 AM, KIS-List Digest Server <
kis-list@matronics.com> wrote:
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 13-04-29&Archive=KIS
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 13-04-29&Archive=KIS
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> KIS-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Mon 04/29/13: 2
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 04:59 AM - Re: Turbine (ALFRED ROSA)
> 2. 06:45 AM - Re: Turbine (Galin Hernandez)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:59:55 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: Turbine
> From: ALFRED ROSA <fredorosa@gmail.com>
>
> Just wondering what advantage you are hoping to achieve with a turbine?
> Also, If you need a Cruiser without engine and avionics, I have one in my
> garage.
>
> Al
>
> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 12:55 AM, John Petrie <jpetrie@sonicfactory.co.za
> >wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > It's been a while since I last posted on this group, largely due to the
> > fact that I sold my KIS Cruiser.
> > I am now looking for a new project and am considering buying my Cruiser
> > back and fitting a turbine engine. I know absolutely nothing about
> > turbines, and hence the reason for this post. If anyone can point me in
> > the right direction or provide some other useful information, I'm all
> ears.
> > Thanks a mil.
> >
> > John Petrie
> > Sonic Factory
> > 082 574 6190
> > Sent from my mobile
> >
> >
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:45:52 AM PST US
> From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: Turbine
>
> Now THAT sounds like a cool project. I think 100LL will eventually go away
> and a Jet-A type alternative is a good idea. Besides, it sounds like fun to
> do.
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 11:55 PM, John Petrie <jpetrie@sonicfactory.co.za
> >wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > It's been a while since I last posted on this group, largely due to the
> > fact that I sold my KIS Cruiser.
> > I am now looking for a new project and am considering buying my Cruiser
> > back and fitting a turbine engine. I know absolutely nothing about
> > turbines, and hence the reason for this post. If anyone can point me in
> > the right direction or provide some other useful information, I'm all
> ears.
> > Thanks a mil.
> >
> > John Petrie
> > Sonic Factory
> > 082 574 6190
> > Sent from my mobile
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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Is anyone flying with a Catto propeller? I know Bob Reed has one but is not
flying yet.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 |
Great Reply Kevin ,
But few more moving parts than 3 hey
..!! ... with the Turbo ... and gearbox too .. and what gearbox are u
intending use/try .... ? not much available with proven hours and or
tested TV analysis ..!!??
Graham
.
From: Kevin Alderman
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:26 PM
Subject: KIS-List: Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13
A turbine is a good engine, but not for our general use. The biggest
factor is fuel burn There is a small helicopter that uses a 100 hp SOLAS
turbine for power. It is small, light and responsive. It burns 9 GPH at
idle on the ground, and making 100 HP it burns closer to 14 GPH.
Turbines are great for high altitude high speed flight, for flight in
our normal flight regime it will work but the fuel costs are multitudes
higher.
Also, turbines such as the SOLAS operate at high speeds around 50,000
RPM, and as such need a gearbox to reduce the engine speed to prop
speed. The Helicopter supplier makes their own, you would have to find
one somewhere.
Turbines have a very very narrow power and engine speed range. The power
is varied by a CS prop. Your gearbox will have to be able to support a
CS prop and include a governor. The engine itself will (or should) have
a controller that controls/ limits engine RPM, but you will still need a
method of controlling the prop pitch.
In a turboprop like a Pilatus, it goes like this: The engine is started
at ground idle, which is a turbine speed of around 80% of flight speed,
i.e. 40K RPM. After warm up and taxi, the engine is brought up to flight
cruise power and the prop is cycled somewhat similar to our run-up with
a piston recip. For takeoff, the throttle is pushed to takeoff and the
prop full forward for maximum THRUST. At altitude, the throttle is
pulled back to flight cruise, the prop placed in cruise and off we go.
Turbine engines are only cost efficient at high altitudes and high
speeds. Most jet operators will tell you that if they had to fly below
30K feet all the time they couldn't afford the fuel.
Another added benefit of a turbine is pressurization- they take
compressed high pressure air from the cold- compressor- section and send
it into the cabin. The air is hot from compression, and doubles as cabin
heat. If you aren't going to fly at the flight levels, this is another
waste of power.
I am building a Wheeler Express- after flights to Central America, the
Bahamas, and other places that do not have Avgas, I thought about a
300HP turbine. My plane with a 300 HP gas engine will burn around 12 gph
at 180 kts at 14,500 ft. My 100 gal fuel capacity will give me more than
a 1000 mile range. The 300 HP turbine fuel burn is closer to 28 GPH in
flight even at FL 180. Cuts my range in half, even though I gain 30 kts
in speed.
Kevin Alderman
Avionics Tech/ Aircraft restoration
Building a Wheeler Express with a Mazda Rotary 13B turbo- 300 HP- 3
moving parts.
On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 3:00 AM, KIS-List Digest Server
<kis-list@matronics.com> wrote:
*
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
version
of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&
Chapter 13-04-29&Archive=KIS
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C
hapter 13-04-29&Archive=KIS
======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
======================
----------------------------------------------------------
KIS-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 04/29/13: 2
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:59 AM - Re: Turbine (ALFRED ROSA)
2. 06:45 AM - Re: Turbine (Galin Hernandez)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 04:59:55 AM PST US
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Turbine
From: ALFRED ROSA <fredorosa@gmail.com>
Just wondering what advantage you are hoping to achieve with a
turbine?
Also, If you need a Cruiser without engine and avionics, I have one
in my
garage.
Al
On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 12:55 AM, John Petrie
<jpetrie@sonicfactory.co.za>wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> It's been a while since I last posted on this group, largely due to
the
> fact that I sold my KIS Cruiser.
> I am now looking for a new project and am considering buying my
Cruiser
> back and fitting a turbine engine. I know absolutely nothing about
> turbines, and hence the reason for this post. If anyone can point
me in
> the right direction or provide some other useful information, I'm
all ears.
> Thanks a mil.
>
> John Petrie
> Sonic Factory
> 082 574 6190
> Sent from my mobile
>
>
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 06:45:52 AM PST US
From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Turbine
Now THAT sounds like a cool project. I think 100LL will eventually go
away
and a Jet-A type alternative is a good idea. Besides, it sounds like
fun to
do.
On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 11:55 PM, John Petrie
<jpetrie@sonicfactory.co.za>wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> It's been a while since I last posted on this group, largely due to
the
> fact that I sold my KIS Cruiser.
> I am now looking for a new project and am considering buying my
Cruiser
> back and fitting a turbine engine. I know absolutely nothing about
> turbines, and hence the reason for this post. If anyone can point
me in
> the right direction or provide some other useful information, I'm
all ears.
> Thanks a mil.
>
> John Petrie
> Sonic Factory
> 082 574 6190
> Sent from my mobile
>
>
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Catto Propeller |
I am flying with a 76x76 Catto 2 blade prop on my Rotary powered KIS
Bill Schertz
From: Galin Hernandez
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:07 AM
Subject: KIS-List: Catto Propeller
Is anyone flying with a Catto propeller? I know Bob Reed has one but is
not flying yet.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Catto Propeller |
Bill, How do you like the propeller?
On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 8:46 AM, William Schertz <wschertz@comcast.net>wrote:
> I am flying with a 76x76 Catto 2 blade prop on my Rotary powered KIS
>
> Bill Schertz
>
>
> *From:* Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:07 AM
> *To:* kis-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* KIS-List: Catto Propeller
>
> Is anyone flying with a Catto propeller? I know Bob Reed has one but is
> not flying yet.
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
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