---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 05/02/13: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:05 AM - Re: KIS-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 05/01/13 (Kevin Alderman) 2. 05:55 AM - Re: Re: KIS-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 04/30/13 (Graham Brighton) 3. 06:08 AM - Re: Catto Propeller (Graham Brighton) 4. 01:49 PM - Re: Re: KIS-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 05/01/13 (Scott Stearns) 5. 08:30 PM - Re: Re: KIS-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 04/30/13 (John Petrie) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:05:33 AM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Re: KIS-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 05/01/13 From: Kevin Alderman Tracy Crook flies his 3 rotor RV6 behind a 3 blade Catto prop and recommended it to me for mine. Kevin Alderman On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:00 AM, KIS-List Digest Server < kis-list@matronics.com> wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 13-05-01&Archive=KIS > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 13-05-01&Archive=KIS > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > KIS-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Wed 05/01/13: 4 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 03:32 AM - Re: KIS-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 04/30/13 (Kevin Alderman) > 2. 04:11 AM - Re: Catto Propeller (Scott Stearns) > 3. 11:01 PM - Official KIS-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) > (Matt Dralle) > 4. 11:06 PM - Official KIS-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:32:40 AM PST US > Subject: KIS-List: Re: KIS-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 04/30/13 > From: Kevin Alderman > > The gearbox is made by Tracy Crook at rotary aviation. There are many of > these flying around the world- really. The longest running one that I have > personally seen is Tracys RV4 with 2200 hours, and his RV6 3 rotor with > over 1000. There are also 2 lancairs in Texas, an RV4 with a turbo mazda > that raced last year at Reno etc. > > The gearbox is really simple- a central drive shaft made from a truck axle > turned by a planetary set from a Ford E4OD truck transmission. If you count > the 6 planets in the gear set, we are up to 10 moving parts including the > turbo for the whole thing. A Lycoming IO360 has 1548 :). > > The pros include a new engine for less than 4K, few moving parts, no valves > and high power > > The cons include you have to build it yourself or find someone that has > done it. > > My old IO520D needed 2 cylinders. These cylinders cost more than a new > rotary. I developed a bad skip in flight with the 520D, and when I landed I > did a compression check and changed the oil. 0 compression on number 1, 30 > lbs on 2. I owned a construction company for 22 years and as such know the > value of equipment, so as we normally would I set out to rebuild the 520. > This is where the issue came in- 2 ADs. The first said that I had the light > crankcase and if I took it apart I had to send it off. Continental told me > that less than 40% would come out as OK. AD number 2 said that I had a non > VAR crank, and couldnt re-use it. If I opened the crankcase, the crank had > to go. > > So, to rebuild the engine I needed a new crank at over 8K, all new > cylinders, possibly a new crankcase, etc. OR- (now is the time to sit down) > if the engine had acceptable oil pressure I could stick 2 cylinders on it > and fly and be FAA legal. In spite of a handful of metal in the oil removed > from the engine, I had oil pressure in the green when it was tested. Who > knows how much bearing damage was done by the metal. But I couldn't open it > up and even check the bearings. > > Unacceptable. And with the 2 ADs, Continental gave me a whole $3,000 credit > toward a new $54,000 engine. Again unacceptable. > > There are many of these engines in airplanes- half of the Air Forces UAVs > are powered by jet fuel burning rotary engines- as well as lots of boats, > equipment, Lancairs, Cozys, RVs, etc. I have an engine in my plane, and a > spare pickled in the garage. So while the "airplane" engine guys spend > $2,000 on a cylinder, If I have a problem I just swap the whole engine and > fly with a brand new one. > > I am also finished with the system but it works out like this- Mazda 13B > rotary, Rotary aviation gearbox at 2.85:1. EFI with mechanical backup. > The throttle will be computer controlled similar to cruise control in your > car. There will be 4 normal positions- takeoff- cruise- flight idle- ground > idle. > For takeoff push it to the T/O position, and the computer will control > boost, power, temps, etc. and keep it at 7500 RPM. After climb pull it to > flight cruise and the computer will keep it at 6000 RPM whether you are in > a climb or descent. When you want to go down, flight idle will reduce the > RPM to 4500, which will also be the taxi setting. Then ground idle for > waiting to go. > > There will always be manual control, but shouldn't be needed with redundant > EFI computers and 8 hours of battery backup. > > I could go on for days, but you should have a good picture of what is in my > head by now. > > Kevin Alderman > Maybe I should add Obsessive Compulsive to what goes under my name! > > > On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 3:00 AM, KIS-List Digest Server < > kis-list@matronics.com> wrote: > > > * > > > > ================================================ > > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > > ================================================ > > > > Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the > > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > > of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > > > HTML Version: > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter13-04-30&Archive=KIS > > > > Text Version: > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter13-04-30&Archive=KIS > > > > > > ============================================== > > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > > ============================================== > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > KIS-List Digest Archive > > --- > > Total Messages Posted Tue 04/30/13: 5 > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Today's Message Index: > > ---------------------- > > > > 1. 03:27 AM - Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 (Kevin > Alderman) > > 2. 06:08 AM - Catto Propeller (Galin Hernandez) > > 3. 06:10 AM - Re: Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 (Graham > > Brighton) > > 4. 06:46 AM - Re: Catto Propeller (William Schertz) > > 5. 05:11 PM - Re: Catto Propeller (Galin Hernandez) > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 03:27:12 AM PST US > > Subject: KIS-List: Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 > > From: Kevin Alderman > > > > A turbine is a good engine, but not for our general use. The biggest > factor > > is fuel burn There is a small helicopter that uses a 100 hp SOLAS turbine > > for power. It is small, light and responsive. It burns 9 GPH at idle on > the > > ground, and making 100 HP it burns closer to 14 GPH. Turbines are great > for > > high altitude high speed flight, for flight in our normal flight regime > it > > will work but the fuel costs are multitudes higher. > > > > Also, turbines such as the SOLAS operate at high speeds around 50,000 > RPM, > > and as such need a gearbox to reduce the engine speed to prop speed. The > > Helicopter supplier makes their own, you would have to find one > somewhere. > > > > Turbines have a very very narrow power and engine speed range. The power > is > > varied by a CS prop. Your gearbox will have to be able to support a CS > prop > > and include a governor. The engine itself will (or should) have a > > controller that controls/ limits engine RPM, but you will still need a > > method of controlling the prop pitch. > > > > In a turboprop like a Pilatus, it goes like this: The engine is started > at > > ground idle, which is a turbine speed of around 80% of flight speed, i.e. > > 40K RPM. After warm up and taxi, the engine is brought up to flight > cruise > > power and the prop is cycled somewhat similar to our run-up with a piston > > recip. For takeoff, the throttle is pushed to takeoff and the prop full > > forward for maximum THRUST. At altitude, the throttle is pulled back to > > flight cruise, the prop placed in cruise and off we go. > > > > Turbine engines are only cost efficient at high altitudes and high > speeds. > > Most jet operators will tell you that if they had to fly below 30K feet > all > > the time they couldn't afford the fuel. > > > > Another added benefit of a turbine is pressurization- they take > compressed > > high pressure air from the cold- compressor- section and send it into the > > cabin. The air is hot from compression, and doubles as cabin heat. If you > > aren't going to fly at the flight levels, this is another waste of power. > > > > I am building a Wheeler Express- after flights to Central America, the > > Bahamas, and other places that do not have Avgas, I thought about a 300HP > > turbine. My plane with a 300 HP gas engine will burn around 12 gph at 180 > > kts at 14,500 ft. My 100 gal fuel capacity will give me more than a 1000 > > mile range. The 300 HP turbine fuel burn is closer to 28 GPH in flight > even > > at FL 180. Cuts my range in half, even though I gain 30 kts in speed. > > > > Kevin Alderman > > Avionics Tech/ Aircraft restoration > > Building a Wheeler Express with a Mazda Rotary 13B turbo- 300 HP- 3 > moving > > parts. > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 3:00 AM, KIS-List Digest Server < > > kis-list@matronics.com> wrote: > > > > > * > > > > > > =============================================== > > > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > > > =============================================== > > > > > > Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the > > > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest > formatted > > > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > > > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > > > of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > > > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > > > > > HTML Version: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter13-04-29&Archive=KIS > > > > > > Text Version: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter13-04-29&Archive=KIS > > > > > > > > > ============================================= > > > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > > > ============================================= > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > KIS-List Digest Archive > > > --- > > > Total Messages Posted Mon 04/29/13: 2 > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > Today's Message Index: > > > ---------------------- > > > > > > 1. 04:59 AM - Re: Turbine (ALFRED ROSA) > > > 2. 06:45 AM - Re: Turbine (Galin Hernandez) > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > > > > Time: 04:59:55 AM PST US > > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Turbine > > > From: ALFRED ROSA > > > > > > Just wondering what advantage you are hoping to achieve with a turbine? > > > Also, If you need a Cruiser without engine and avionics, I have one > in > > my > > > garage. > > > > > > Al > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 12:55 AM, John Petrie < > > jpetrie@sonicfactory.co.za > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > It's been a while since I last posted on this group, largely due to > the > > > > fact that I sold my KIS Cruiser. > > > > I am now looking for a new project and am considering buying my > Cruiser > > > > back and fitting a turbine engine. I know absolutely nothing about > > > > turbines, and hence the reason for this post. If anyone can point me > > in > > > > the right direction or provide some other useful information, I'm all > > > ears. > > > > Thanks a mil. > > > > > > > > John Petrie > > > > Sonic Factory > > > > 082 574 6190 > > > > Sent from my mobile > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > > > > Time: 06:45:52 AM PST US > > > From: Galin Hernandez > > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Turbine > > > > > > Now THAT sounds like a cool project. I think 100LL will eventually go > > away > > > and a Jet-A type alternative is a good idea. Besides, it sounds like > fun > > to > > > do. > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 11:55 PM, John Petrie < > > jpetrie@sonicfactory.co.za > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > It's been a while since I last posted on this group, largely due to > the > > > > fact that I sold my KIS Cruiser. > > > > I am now looking for a new project and am considering buying my > Cruiser > > > > back and fitting a turbine engine. I know absolutely nothing about > > > > turbines, and hence the reason for this post. If anyone can point me > > in > > > > the right direction or provide some other useful information, I'm all > > > ears. > > > > Thanks a mil. > > > > > > > > John Petrie > > > > Sonic Factory > > > > 082 574 6190 > > > > Sent from my mobile > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 06:08:01 AM PST US > > From: Galin Hernandez > > Subject: KIS-List: Catto Propeller > > > > Is anyone flying with a Catto propeller? I know Bob Reed has one but is > not > > flying yet. > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 06:10:21 AM PST US > > From: "Graham Brighton" > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 > > > > Great Reply Kevin , > > But few more moving parts than 3 hey > > ..!! ... with the Turbo ... and gearbox too .. and what gearbox are u > > intending use/try .... ? not much available with proven hours and or > > tested TV analysis ..!!?? > > Graham > > > > .. > > > > > > From: Kevin Alderman > > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:26 PM > > Subject: KIS-List: Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 > > > > > > A turbine is a good engine, but not for our general use. The biggest > > factor is fuel burn There is a small helicopter that uses a 100 hp SOLAS > > turbine for power. It is small, light and responsive. It burns 9 GPH at > > idle on the ground, and making 100 HP it burns closer to 14 GPH. > > Turbines are great for high altitude high speed flight, for flight in > > our normal flight regime it will work but the fuel costs are multitudes > > higher. > > > > > > Also, turbines such as the SOLAS operate at high speeds around 50,000 > > RPM, and as such need a gearbox to reduce the engine speed to prop > > speed. The Helicopter supplier makes their own, you would have to find > > one somewhere. > > > > > > Turbines have a very very narrow power and engine speed range. The power > > is varied by a CS prop. Your gearbox will have to be able to support a > > CS prop and include a governor. The engine itself will (or should) have > > a controller that controls/ limits engine RPM, but you will still need a > > method of controlling the prop pitch. > > > > > > In a turboprop like a Pilatus, it goes like this: The engine is started > > at ground idle, which is a turbine speed of around 80% of flight speed, > > i.e. 40K RPM. After warm up and taxi, the engine is brought up to flight > > cruise power and the prop is cycled somewhat similar to our run-up with > > a piston recip. For takeoff, the throttle is pushed to takeoff and the > > prop full forward for maximum THRUST. At altitude, the throttle is > > pulled back to flight cruise, the prop placed in cruise and off we go. > > > > > > Turbine engines are only cost efficient at high altitudes and high > > speeds. Most jet operators will tell you that if they had to fly below > > 30K feet all the time they couldn't afford the fuel. > > > > > > Another added benefit of a turbine is pressurization- they take > > compressed high pressure air from the cold- compressor- section and send > > it into the cabin. The air is hot from compression, and doubles as cabin > > heat. If you aren't going to fly at the flight levels, this is another > > waste of power. > > > > > > I am building a Wheeler Express- after flights to Central America, the > > Bahamas, and other places that do not have Avgas, I thought about a > > 300HP turbine. My plane with a 300 HP gas engine will burn around 12 gph > > at 180 kts at 14,500 ft. My 100 gal fuel capacity will give me more than > > a 1000 mile range. The 300 HP turbine fuel burn is closer to 28 GPH in > > flight even at FL 180. Cuts my range in half, even though I gain 30 kts > > in speed. > > > > > > Kevin Alderman > > Avionics Tech/ Aircraft restoration > > Building a Wheeler Express with a Mazda Rotary 13B turbo- 300 HP- 3 > > moving parts. > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 3:00 AM, KIS-List Digest Server > > wrote: > > > > * > > > > > > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > > > > > > Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the > > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest > > formatted > > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked > > Indexes > > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII > > version > > of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > > > HTML Version: > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html& > > Chapter 13-04-29&Archive=KIS > > > > Text Version: > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C > > hapter 13-04-29&Archive=KIS > > > > > > ==================== > > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > > > > ==================== > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > KIS-List Digest Archive > > --- > > Total Messages Posted Mon 04/29/13: 2 > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Today's Message Index: > > ---------------------- > > > > 1. 04:59 AM - Re: Turbine (ALFRED ROSA) > > 2. 06:45 AM - Re: Turbine (Galin Hernandez) > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 04:59:55 AM PST US > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Turbine > > From: ALFRED ROSA > > > > Just wondering what advantage you are hoping to achieve with a > > turbine? > > Also, If you need a Cruiser without engine and avionics, I have one > > in my > > garage. > > > > Al > > > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 12:55 AM, John Petrie > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > It's been a while since I last posted on this group, largely due to > > the > > > fact that I sold my KIS Cruiser. > > > I am now looking for a new project and am considering buying my > > Cruiser > > > back and fitting a turbine engine. I know absolutely nothing about > > > turbines, and hence the reason for this post. If anyone can point > > me in > > > the right direction or provide some other useful information, I'm > > all ears. > > > Thanks a mil. > > > > > > John Petrie > > > Sonic Factory > > > 082 574 6190 > > > Sent from my mobile > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 06:45:52 AM PST US > > From: Galin Hernandez > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Turbine > > > > Now THAT sounds like a cool project. I think 100LL will eventually go > > away > > and a Jet-A type alternative is a good idea. Besides, it sounds like > > fun to > > do. > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 11:55 PM, John Petrie > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > It's been a while since I last posted on this group, largely due to > > the > > > fact that I sold my KIS Cruiser. > > > I am now looking for a new project and am considering buying my > > Cruiser > > > back and fitting a turbine engine. I know absolutely nothing about > > > turbines, and hence the reason for this post. If anyone can point > > me in > > > the right direction or provide some other useful information, I'm > > all ears. > > > Thanks a mil. > > > > > > John Petrie > > > Sonic Factory > > > 082 574 6190 > > > Sent from my mobile > > > > > > > > > > > > ======== > > rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > > ======== > > http://forums.matronics.com > > ======== > > le, List Admin. > > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ======== > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 06:46:24 AM PST US > > From: "William Schertz" > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Catto Propeller > > > > I am flying with a 76x76 Catto 2 blade prop on my Rotary powered KIS > > > > Bill Schertz > > > > > > From: Galin Hernandez > > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:07 AM > > Subject: KIS-List: Catto Propeller > > > > Is anyone flying with a Catto propeller? I know Bob Reed has one but is > > not flying yet. > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 05:11:36 PM PST US > > From: Galin Hernandez > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Catto Propeller > > > > Bill, How do you like the propeller? > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 8:46 AM, William Schertz > >wrote: > > > > > I am flying with a 76x76 Catto 2 blade prop on my Rotary powered KIS > > > > > > Bill Schertz > > > > > > > > > *From:* Galin Hernandez > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:07 AM > > > *To:* kis-list@matronics.com > > > *Subject:* KIS-List: Catto Propeller > > > > > > Is anyone flying with a Catto propeller? I know Bob Reed has one but > is > > > not flying yet. > > > > > > * > > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List"> > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"> > http://www.matronics.com/c* > > > > > > * > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:11:00 AM PST US > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Catto Propeller > From: Scott Stearns > > I have a 68x80 prince that I might be selling soon. I think I am going to > g > et a whirlwind ground adjustable prop. > > Scott > > > On Apr 30, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Galin Hernandez wrote: > > > Is anyone flying with a Catto propeller? I know Bob Reed has one but is > no > t flying yet. > > > > > ========================= > ======== > ========================= > ======== > ========================= > ======== > ========================= > ======== > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 11:01:23 PM PST US > From: Matt Dralle > Subject: KIS-List: Official KIS-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) > > > Dear Listers, > > Please read over the KIS-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The > complete KIS-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the > following URL: > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/KIS-List.FAQ.html > > Thank you, > > Matt Dralle > Matronics Email List Administrator > > > [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such > as > Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting > errors. ] > > > This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm > > > ************************************************************ > ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* > ************************************************************ > > > PLEASE READ. This document contains KIS-List policies and information > for new and old subscribers. Understanding the KIS-List policies will > minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the KIS-List > running smoothly for all of us. > > > ****************************************** > *** Quick Start Guide to List Features *** > ****************************************** > > There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each > one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator > you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this > List. 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This is done in real time and will not slow down > the process of posting the message !! > > > Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these > rules > > could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the > Lists. > > 1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files > you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that > there > are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you > post > 30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on > these > folks and the rest of us, for that matter. > > 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000 > pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just > unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture > down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the > file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less. > > Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows > you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically > scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use > it! > > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx > Look for the link "Image Resizer" > > 3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do > not > post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother. > And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even > questionable. !! > > 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 > members > subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting > to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! 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Please also note that the process of making the files and > photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try > to > process them every few days. > > Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will > be > sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new > Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. > > For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main > Index Page: > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > > ************************** > *** List Archive CDROM *** > ************************** > > A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains > all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The > archives > for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search > engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it > and will contain archive received up to the last minute. 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The List's goals > are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver > high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie > among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals > requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of > the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: > > > - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit > posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long > lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. > > - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be > relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. > > - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive > that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and > terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and > responses. > > - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, > aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line > about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid > bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary > space in the archive. > > - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is > easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the > web page or FAQ first. > > - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of > your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it > easy to find threads in the archive. > > - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your > response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the > reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that > quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive > can not be overstated! > > - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT > then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the > "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your > response to the original poster. You might have to actively address > your response with the original poster's email address. > > - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something > to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I > agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent > to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. > > - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to > comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly > contribute something valuable. > > - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone > polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack > other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously > controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that > will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. > > - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly > subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by > List members promoting their respective products or items for sale > should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble > a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but > is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to > everyone, including those who provide products to the entire > community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the > operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. > > ------- > > > [This is an automated posting.] > > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 4 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 11:06:03 PM PST US > From: Matt Dralle > Subject: KIS-List: Official KIS-List Usage Guidelines > > > Dear Listers, > > Please read over the KIS-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete > KIS-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the > following URL: > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/KIS-List.FAQ.html > > Thank you, > > Matt Dralle > Matronics Email List Administrator > > > ****************************************************************************** > KIS-List Usage Guidelines > > ****************************************************************************** > > The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the KIS-List. > You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. > Failure to use the KIS-List in the manner described below may result > in the removal of the subscribers from the List. > > > KIS-List Policy Statement > > The purpose of the KIS-List is to provide a forum of discussion for > things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals > are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver > high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie > among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals > requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of > the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: > > > - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit > posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long > lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. > > - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be > relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. > > - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive > that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and > terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and > responses. > > - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, > aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line > about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid > bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary > space in the archive. > > - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is > easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the > web page or FAQ first. > > - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of > your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it > easy to find threads in the archive. > > - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your > response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the > reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that > quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive > can not be overstated! > > - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT > then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the > "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your > response to the original poster. You might have to actively address > your response with the original poster's email address. > > - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something > to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I > agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent > to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. > > - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to > comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly > contribute something valuable. > > - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone > polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack > other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously > controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that > will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. > > - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly > subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by > List members promoting their respective products or items for sale > should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble > a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but > is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to > everyone, including those who provide products to the entire > community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the > operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. > > ------- > > > [This is an automated posting.] > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:33 AM PST US From: "Graham Brighton" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: KIS-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 04/30/13 Hi back Kevin , Thanks again for your great reply again .... and clear that u have great hopes and expectations which i really hope come to fruition .... Tracey is the champion of the Rotary club ... buts there must be a reason he doesn't have many challengers ... history sees that most redrives get mods and reworks and lots are no more ...would be surprised if Tracey has so may hours on a single version .. Certainly true 'Aero' engines are crazy expensive .... but most auto conversions dollars will total up with reworks and mods etc too ... !?? Planetary redrives also have a spotty record too .... the Rotary is also know for high fuel burn and high exhaust temps and noise that is difficult to manage ... not trying to be a wet blanket .. just wanting to fill out the picture a bit more ... , I'm a auto conversion guy so ... we are on the same page though ... if Lycoming ever came out with water cooled heads i could jump ship though ...!! Wishing u nothing but success ..and plz keep us posted with ur progress Cheers Graham .. From: Kevin Alderman Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 8:32 PM Subject: KIS-List: Re: KIS-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 04/30/13 The gearbox is made by Tracy Crook at rotary aviation. There are many of these flying around the world- really. The longest running one that I have personally seen is Tracys RV4 with 2200 hours, and his RV6 3 rotor with over 1000. There are also 2 lancairs in Texas, an RV4 with a turbo mazda that raced last year at Reno etc. The gearbox is really simple- a central drive shaft made from a truck axle turned by a planetary set from a Ford E4OD truck transmission. If you count the 6 planets in the gear set, we are up to 10 moving parts including the turbo for the whole thing. A Lycoming IO360 has 1548 :). The pros include a new engine for less than 4K, few moving parts, no valves and high power The cons include you have to build it yourself or find someone that has done it. My old IO520D needed 2 cylinders. These cylinders cost more than a new rotary. I developed a bad skip in flight with the 520D, and when I landed I did a compression check and changed the oil. 0 compression on number 1, 30 lbs on 2. I owned a construction company for 22 years and as such know the value of equipment, so as we normally would I set out to rebuild the 520. This is where the issue came in- 2 ADs. The first said that I had the light crankcase and if I took it apart I had to send it off. Continental told me that less than 40% would come out as OK. AD number 2 said that I had a non VAR crank, and couldnt re-use it. If I opened the crankcase, the crank had to go. So, to rebuild the engine I needed a new crank at over 8K, all new cylinders, possibly a new crankcase, etc. OR- (now is the time to sit down) if the engine had acceptable oil pressure I could stick 2 cylinders on it and fly and be FAA legal. In spite of a handful of metal in the oil removed from the engine, I had oil pressure in the green when it was tested. Who knows how much bearing damage was done by the metal. But I couldn't open it up and even check the bearings. Unacceptable. And with the 2 ADs, Continental gave me a whole $3,000 credit toward a new $54,000 engine. Again unacceptable. There are many of these engines in airplanes- half of the Air Forces UAVs are powered by jet fuel burning rotary engines- as well as lots of boats, equipment, Lancairs, Cozys, RVs, etc. I have an engine in my plane, and a spare pickled in the garage. So while the "airplane" engine guys spend $2,000 on a cylinder, If I have a problem I just swap the whole engine and fly with a brand new one. I am also finished with the system but it works out like this- Mazda 13B rotary, Rotary aviation gearbox at 2.85:1. EFI with mechanical backup. The throttle will be computer controlled similar to cruise control in your car. There will be 4 normal positions- takeoff- cruise- flight idle- ground idle. For takeoff push it to the T/O position, and the computer will control boost, power, temps, etc. and keep it at 7500 RPM. After climb pull it to flight cruise and the computer will keep it at 6000 RPM whether you are in a climb or descent. When you want to go down, flight idle will reduce the RPM to 4500, which will also be the taxi setting. Then ground idle for waiting to go. There will always be manual control, but shouldn't be needed with redundant EFI computers and 8 hours of battery backup. I could go on for days, but you should have a good picture of what is in my head by now. Kevin Alderman Maybe I should add Obsessive Compulsive to what goes under my name! On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 3:00 AM, KIS-List Digest Server wrote: * Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html& Chapter 13-04-30&Archive=KIS Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C hapter 13-04-30&Archive=KIS ====================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ====================== ---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/30/13: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:27 AM - Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 (Kevin Alderman) 2. 06:08 AM - Catto Propeller (Galin Hernandez) 3. 06:10 AM - Re: Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 (Graham Brighton) 4. 06:46 AM - Re: Catto Propeller (William Schertz) 5. 05:11 PM - Re: Catto Propeller (Galin Hernandez) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:27:12 AM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 From: Kevin Alderman A turbine is a good engine, but not for our general use. The biggest factor is fuel burn There is a small helicopter that uses a 100 hp SOLAS turbine for power. It is small, light and responsive. It burns 9 GPH at idle on the ground, and making 100 HP it burns closer to 14 GPH. Turbines are great for high altitude high speed flight, for flight in our normal flight regime it will work but the fuel costs are multitudes higher. Also, turbines such as the SOLAS operate at high speeds around 50,000 RPM, and as such need a gearbox to reduce the engine speed to prop speed. The Helicopter supplier makes their own, you would have to find one somewhere. Turbines have a very very narrow power and engine speed range. The power is varied by a CS prop. Your gearbox will have to be able to support a CS prop and include a governor. The engine itself will (or should) have a controller that controls/ limits engine RPM, but you will still need a method of controlling the prop pitch. In a turboprop like a Pilatus, it goes like this: The engine is started at ground idle, which is a turbine speed of around 80% of flight speed, i.e. 40K RPM. After warm up and taxi, the engine is brought up to flight cruise power and the prop is cycled somewhat similar to our run-up with a piston recip. For takeoff, the throttle is pushed to takeoff and the prop full forward for maximum THRUST. At altitude, the throttle is pulled back to flight cruise, the prop placed in cruise and off we go. Turbine engines are only cost efficient at high altitudes and high speeds. Most jet operators will tell you that if they had to fly below 30K feet all the time they couldn't afford the fuel. Another added benefit of a turbine is pressurization- they take compressed high pressure air from the cold- compressor- section and send it into the cabin. The air is hot from compression, and doubles as cabin heat. If you aren't going to fly at the flight levels, this is another waste of power. I am building a Wheeler Express- after flights to Central America, the Bahamas, and other places that do not have Avgas, I thought about a 300HP turbine. My plane with a 300 HP gas engine will burn around 12 gph at 180 kts at 14,500 ft. My 100 gal fuel capacity will give me more than a 1000 mile range. The 300 HP turbine fuel burn is closer to 28 GPH in flight even at FL 180. Cuts my range in half, even though I gain 30 kts in speed. Kevin Alderman Avionics Tech/ Aircraft restoration Building a Wheeler Express with a Mazda Rotary 13B turbo- 300 HP- 3 moving parts. On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 3:00 AM, KIS-List Digest Server < kis-list@matronics.com> wrote: > * > > ======================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ======================= > > Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html& Chapter 13-04-29&Archive=KIS > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C hapter 13-04-29&Archive=KIS > > > ===================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ===================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > KIS-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Mon 04/29/13: 2 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 04:59 AM - Re: Turbine (ALFRED ROSA) > 2. 06:45 AM - Re: Turbine (Galin Hernandez) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:59:55 AM PST US > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Turbine > From: ALFRED ROSA > > Just wondering what advantage you are hoping to achieve with a turbine? > Also, If you need a Cruiser without engine and avionics, I have one in my > garage. > > Al > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 12:55 AM, John Petrie >wrote: > > > > > Hi all, > > > > It's been a while since I last posted on this group, largely due to the > > fact that I sold my KIS Cruiser. > > I am now looking for a new project and am considering buying my Cruiser > > back and fitting a turbine engine. I know absolutely nothing about > > turbines, and hence the reason for this post. If anyone can point me in > > the right direction or provide some other useful information, I'm all > ears. > > Thanks a mil. > > > > John Petrie > > Sonic Factory > > 082 574 6190 > > Sent from my mobile > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:45:52 AM PST US > From: Galin Hernandez > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Turbine > > Now THAT sounds like a cool project. I think 100LL will eventually go away > and a Jet-A type alternative is a good idea. Besides, it sounds like fun to > do. > > > On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 11:55 PM, John Petrie >wrote: > > > > > Hi all, > > > > It's been a while since I last posted on this group, largely due to the > > fact that I sold my KIS Cruiser. > > I am now looking for a new project and am considering buying my Cruiser > > back and fitting a turbine engine. I know absolutely nothing about > > turbines, and hence the reason for this post. If anyone can point me in > > the right direction or provide some other useful information, I'm all > ears. > > Thanks a mil. > > > > John Petrie > > Sonic Factory > > 082 574 6190 > > Sent from my mobile > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:01 AM PST US From: Galin Hernandez Subject: KIS-List: Catto Propeller Is anyone flying with a Catto propeller? I know Bob Reed has one but is not flying yet. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:21 AM PST US From: "Graham Brighton" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 Great Reply Kevin , But few more moving parts than 3 hey ..!! ... with the Turbo ... and gearbox too .. and what gearbox are u intending use/try .... ? not much available with proven hours and or tested TV analysis ..!!?? Graham .. From: Kevin Alderman Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:26 PM Subject: KIS-List: Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 A turbine is a good engine, but not for our general use. The biggest factor is fuel burn There is a small helicopter that uses a 100 hp SOLAS turbine for power. It is small, light and responsive. It burns 9 GPH at idle on the ground, and making 100 HP it burns closer to 14 GPH. Turbines are great for high altitude high speed flight, for flight in our normal flight regime it will work but the fuel costs are multitudes higher. Also, turbines such as the SOLAS operate at high speeds around 50,000 RPM, and as such need a gearbox to reduce the engine speed to prop speed. The Helicopter supplier makes their own, you would have to find one somewhere. Turbines have a very very narrow power and engine speed range. The power is varied by a CS prop. Your gearbox will have to be able to support a CS prop and include a governor. The engine itself will (or should) have a controller that controls/ limits engine RPM, but you will still need a method of controlling the prop pitch. In a turboprop like a Pilatus, it goes like this: The engine is started at ground idle, which is a turbine speed of around 80% of flight speed, i.e. 40K RPM. After warm up and taxi, the engine is brought up to flight cruise power and the prop is cycled somewhat similar to our run-up with a piston recip. For takeoff, the throttle is pushed to takeoff and the prop full forward for maximum THRUST. At altitude, the throttle is pulled back to flight cruise, the prop placed in cruise and off we go. Turbine engines are only cost efficient at high altitudes and high speeds. Most jet operators will tell you that if they had to fly below 30K feet all the time they couldn't afford the fuel. Another added benefit of a turbine is pressurization- they take compressed high pressure air from the cold- compressor- section and send it into the cabin. The air is hot from compression, and doubles as cabin heat. If you aren't going to fly at the flight levels, this is another waste of power. I am building a Wheeler Express- after flights to Central America, the Bahamas, and other places that do not have Avgas, I thought about a 300HP turbine. My plane with a 300 HP gas engine will burn around 12 gph at 180 kts at 14,500 ft. My 100 gal fuel capacity will give me more than a 1000 mile range. The 300 HP turbine fuel burn is closer to 28 GPH in flight even at FL 180. Cuts my range in half, even though I gain 30 kts in speed. Kevin Alderman Avionics Tech/ Aircraft restoration Building a Wheeler Express with a Mazda Rotary 13B turbo- 300 HP- 3 moving parts. On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 3:00 AM, KIS-List Digest Server wrote: * Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html& Chapter 13-04-29&Archive=KIS Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C hapter 13-04-29&Archive=KIS ===================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ===================== ---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 04/29/13: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:59 AM - Re: Turbine (ALFRED ROSA) 2. 06:45 AM - Re: Turbine (Galin Hernandez) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:59:55 AM PST US Subject: Re: KIS-List: Turbine From: ALFRED ROSA Just wondering what advantage you are hoping to achieve with a turbine? Also, If you need a Cruiser without engine and avionics, I have one in my garage. Al On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 12:55 AM, John Petrie wrote: > > Hi all, > > It's been a while since I last posted on this group, largely due to the > fact that I sold my KIS Cruiser. > I am now looking for a new project and am considering buying my Cruiser > back and fitting a turbine engine. I know absolutely nothing about > turbines, and hence the reason for this post. If anyone can point me in > the right direction or provide some other useful information, I'm all ears. > Thanks a mil. > > John Petrie > Sonic Factory > 082 574 6190 > Sent from my mobile > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:52 AM PST US From: Galin Hernandez Subject: Re: KIS-List: Turbine Now THAT sounds like a cool project. I think 100LL will eventually go away and a Jet-A type alternative is a good idea. Besides, it sounds like fun to do. On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 11:55 PM, John Petrie wrote: > > Hi all, > > It's been a while since I last posted on this group, largely due to the > fact that I sold my KIS Cruiser. > I am now looking for a new project and am considering buying my Cruiser > back and fitting a turbine engine. I know absolutely nothing about > turbines, and hence the reason for this post. If anyone can point me in > the right direction or provide some other useful information, I'm all ears. > Thanks a mil. > > John Petrie > Sonic Factory > 082 574 6190 > Sent from my mobile > > ========= rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List ========= http://forums.matronics.com ========= le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========= ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:24 AM PST US From: "William Schertz" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Catto Propeller I am flying with a 76x76 Catto 2 blade prop on my Rotary powered KIS Bill Schertz From: Galin Hernandez Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:07 AM Subject: KIS-List: Catto Propeller Is anyone flying with a Catto propeller? I know Bob Reed has one but is not flying yet. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:36 PM PST US From: Galin Hernandez Subject: Re: KIS-List: Catto Propeller Bill, How do you like the propeller? On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 8:46 AM, William Schertz wrote: > I am flying with a 76x76 Catto 2 blade prop on my Rotary powered KIS > > Bill Schertz > > > *From:* Galin Hernandez > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:07 AM > *To:* kis-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* KIS-List: Catto Propeller > > Is anyone flying with a Catto propeller? I know Bob Reed has one but is > not flying yet. > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?KIS-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c * > > * > > * > > ========== rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:00 AM PST US From: "Graham Brighton" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Catto Propeller Hi Bill, Kevin has posted his interesting Rotary project ... would be great if you could share with us something of your experiences and progress with ur now Flying Rotary KIS 4place .. , So do you think you could fill us in a little on the pros and Cons etc etc ... as you have a Flying Completion now .. ? With Thanks Graham .. William Schertz Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 11:46 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Catto Propeller I am flying with a 76x76 Catto 2 blade prop on my Rotary powered KIS Bill Schertz From: Galin Hernandez Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:07 AM Subject: KIS-List: Catto Propeller Is anyone flying with a Catto propeller? I know Bob Reed has one but is not flying yet. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?KIS-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:49:31 PM PST US Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: KIS-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 05/01/13 From: Scott Stearns Check out the whirlwind ground adjustable before you buy. I am not sure how much the catto is but the whirlwind is about the same price as a prince car bon. Scott On May 2, 2013, at 11:05 AM, Kevin Alderman w rote: > Tracy Crook flies his 3 rotor RV6 behind a 3 blade Catto prop and recommen ded it to me for mine. > > Kevin Alderman > > > On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:00 AM, KIS-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ========================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ========================= > > Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=ht ml&Chapter 13-05-01&Archive=KIS > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=tx t&Chapter 13-05-01&Archive=KIS > > > ========================= ====================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ========================= ====================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > KIS-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Wed 05/01/13: 4 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 03:32 AM - Re: KIS-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 04/30/13 (Kevin Alderman ) > 2. 04:11 AM - Re: Catto Propeller (Scott Stearns) > 3. 11:01 PM - Official KIS-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Ma tt Dralle) > 4. 11:06 PM - Official KIS-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________ ________ > > > Time: 03:32:40 AM PST US > Subject: KIS-List: Re: KIS-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 04/30/13 > From: Kevin Alderman > > The gearbox is made by Tracy Crook at rotary aviation. There are many of > these flying around the world- really. The longest running one that I have > personally seen is Tracys RV4 with 2200 hours, and his RV6 3 rotor with > over 1000. There are also 2 lancairs in Texas, an RV4 with a turbo mazda > that raced last year at Reno etc. > > The gearbox is really simple- a central drive shaft made from a truck axle > turned by a planetary set from a Ford E4OD truck transmission. If you coun t > the 6 planets in the gear set, we are up to 10 moving parts including the > turbo for the whole thing. A Lycoming IO360 has 1548 :). > > The pros include a new engine for less than 4K, few moving parts, no valve s > and high power > > The cons include you have to build it yourself or find someone that has > done it. > > My old IO520D needed 2 cylinders. These cylinders cost more than a new > rotary. I developed a bad skip in flight with the 520D, and when I landed I > did a compression check and changed the oil. 0 compression on number 1, 30 > lbs on 2. I owned a construction company for 22 years and as such know the > value of equipment, so as we normally would I set out to rebuild the 520. > This is where the issue came in- 2 ADs. The first said that I had the ligh t > crankcase and if I took it apart I had to send it off. Continental told me > that less than 40% would come out as OK. AD number 2 said that I had a non > VAR crank, and couldnt re-use it. If I opened the crankcase, the crank had > to go. > > So, to rebuild the engine I needed a new crank at over 8K, all new > cylinders, possibly a new crankcase, etc. OR- (now is the time to sit down ) > if the engine had acceptable oil pressure I could stick 2 cylinders on it > and fly and be FAA legal. In spite of a handful of metal in the oil remove d > from the engine, I had oil pressure in the green when it was tested. Who > knows how much bearing damage was done by the metal. But I couldn't open i t > up and even check the bearings. > > Unacceptable. And with the 2 ADs, Continental gave me a whole $3,000 credi t > toward a new $54,000 engine. Again unacceptable. > > There are many of these engines in airplanes- half of the Air Forces UAVs > are powered by jet fuel burning rotary engines- as well as lots of boats, > equipment, Lancairs, Cozys, RVs, etc. I have an engine in my plane, and a > spare pickled in the garage. So while the "airplane" engine guys spend > $2,000 on a cylinder, If I have a problem I just swap the whole engine and > fly with a brand new one. > > I am also finished with the system but it works out like this- Mazda 13B > rotary, Rotary aviation gearbox at 2.85:1. EFI with mechanical backup. > The throttle will be computer controlled similar to cruise control in your > car. There will be 4 normal positions- takeoff- cruise- flight idle- groun d > idle. > For takeoff push it to the T/O position, and the computer will control > boost, power, temps, etc. and keep it at 7500 RPM. After climb pull it to > flight cruise and the computer will keep it at 6000 RPM whether you are in > a climb or descent. When you want to go down, flight idle will reduce the > RPM to 4500, which will also be the taxi setting. Then ground idle for > waiting to go. > > There will always be manual control, but shouldn't be needed with redundan t > EFI computers and 8 hours of battery backup. > > I could go on for days, but you should have a good picture of what is in m y > head by now. > > Kevin Alderman > Maybe I should add Obsessive Compulsive to what goes under my name! > > > On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 3:00 AM, KIS-List Digest Server < > kis-list@matronics.com> wrote: > > > * > > > > ======================== > > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > > ======================== > > > > Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the > > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatte d > > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > > of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > > > HTML Version: > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html &Chapter 13-04-30&Archive=KIS > > > > Text Version: > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt& Chapter 13-04-30&Archive=KIS > > > > > > ===================== > > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > > ===================== > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > KIS-List Digest Archive > > --- > > Total Messages Posted Tue 04/30/13: 5 > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Today's Message Index: > > ---------------------- > > > > 1. 03:27 AM - Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 (Kevin Alderm an) > > 2. 06:08 AM - Catto Propeller (Galin Hernandez) > > 3. 06:10 AM - Re: Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 (Graham > > Brighton) > > 4. 06:46 AM - Re: Catto Propeller (William Schertz) > > 5. 05:11 PM - Re: Catto Propeller (Galin Hernandez) > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 03:27:12 AM PST US > > Subject: KIS-List: Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 > > From: Kevin Alderman > > > > A turbine is a good engine, but not for our general use. The biggest fac tor > > is fuel burn There is a small helicopter that uses a 100 hp SOLAS turbin e > > for power. It is small, light and responsive. It burns 9 GPH at idle on t he > > ground, and making 100 HP it burns closer to 14 GPH. Turbines are great f or > > high altitude high speed flight, for flight in our normal flight regime i t > > will work but the fuel costs are multitudes higher. > > > > Also, turbines such as the SOLAS operate at high speeds around 50,000 RP M, > > and as such need a gearbox to reduce the engine speed to prop speed. The > > Helicopter supplier makes their own, you would have to find one somewher e. > > > > Turbines have a very very narrow power and engine speed range. The power is > > varied by a CS prop. Your gearbox will have to be able to support a CS p rop > > and include a governor. The engine itself will (or should) have a > > controller that controls/ limits engine RPM, but you will still need a > > method of controlling the prop pitch. > > > > In a turboprop like a Pilatus, it goes like this: The engine is started a t > > ground idle, which is a turbine speed of around 80% of flight speed, i.e .. > > 40K RPM. After warm up and taxi, the engine is brought up to flight crui se > > power and the prop is cycled somewhat similar to our run-up with a pisto n > > recip. For takeoff, the throttle is pushed to takeoff and the prop full > > forward for maximum THRUST. At altitude, the throttle is pulled back to > > flight cruise, the prop placed in cruise and off we go. > > > > Turbine engines are only cost efficient at high altitudes and high speed s. > > Most jet operators will tell you that if they had to fly below 30K feet a ll > > the time they couldn't afford the fuel. > > > > Another added benefit of a turbine is pressurization- they take compress ed > > high pressure air from the cold- compressor- section and send it into th e > > cabin. The air is hot from compression, and doubles as cabin heat. If yo u > > aren't going to fly at the flight levels, this is another waste of power .. > > > > I am building a Wheeler Express- after flights to Central America, the > > Bahamas, and other places that do not have Avgas, I thought about a 300H P > > turbine. My plane with a 300 HP gas engine will burn around 12 gph at 18 0 > > kts at 14,500 ft. My 100 gal fuel capacity will give me more than a 1000 > > mile range. The 300 HP turbine fuel burn is closer to 28 GPH in flight e ven > > at FL 180. Cuts my range in half, even though I gain 30 kts in speed. > > > > Kevin Alderman > > Avionics Tech/ Aircraft restoration > > Building a Wheeler Express with a Mazda Rotary 13B turbo- 300 HP- 3 movi ng > > parts. > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 3:00 AM, KIS-List Digest Server < > > kis-list@matronics.com> wrote: > > > > > * > > > > > > ======================= > > > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > > > ======================= > > > > > > Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the > > > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest format ted > > > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexe s > > > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII versio n > > > of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > > > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > > > > > HTML Version: > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html &Chapter13-04-29&Archive=KIS > > > > > > Text Version: > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt& Chapter13-04-29&Archive=KIS > > > > > > > > > ==================== > > > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > > > ==================== > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > KIS-List Digest Archive > > > --- > > > Total Messages Posted Mon 04/29/13: 2 > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > Today's Message Index: > > > ---------------------- > > > > > > 1. 04:59 AM - Re: Turbine (ALFRED ROSA) > > > 2. 06:45 AM - Re: Turbine (Galin Hernandez) > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > > > > Time: 04:59:55 AM PST US > > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Turbine > > > From: ALFRED ROSA > > > > > > Just wondering what advantage you are hoping to achieve with a turbine ? > > > Also, If you need a Cruiser without engine and avionics, I have one i n > > my > > > garage. > > > > > > Al > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 12:55 AM, John Petrie < > > jpetrie@sonicfactory.co.za > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > It's been a while since I last posted on this group, largely due to t he > > > > fact that I sold my KIS Cruiser. > > > > I am now looking for a new project and am considering buying my Crui ser > > > > back and fitting a turbine engine. I know absolutely nothing about > > > > turbines, and hence the reason for this post. If anyone can point m e > > in > > > > the right direction or provide some other useful information, I'm al l > > > ears. > > > > Thanks a mil. > > > > > > > > John Petrie > > > > Sonic Factory > > > > 082 574 6190 > > > > Sent from my mobile > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > > > > Time: 06:45:52 AM PST US > > > From: Galin Hernandez > > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Turbine > > > > > > Now THAT sounds like a cool project. I think 100LL will eventually go > > away > > > and a Jet-A type alternative is a good idea. Besides, it sounds like f un > > to > > > do. > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 11:55 PM, John Petrie < > > jpetrie@sonicfactory.co.za > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > It's been a while since I last posted on this group, largely due to t he > > > > fact that I sold my KIS Cruiser. > > > > I am now looking for a new project and am considering buying my Crui ser > > > > back and fitting a turbine engine. I know absolutely nothing about > > > > turbines, and hence the reason for this post. If anyone can point m e > > in > > > > the right direction or provide some other useful information, I'm al l > > > ears. > > > > Thanks a mil. > > > > > > > > John Petrie > > > > Sonic Factory > > > > 082 574 6190 > > > > Sent from my mobile > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 06:08:01 AM PST US > > From: Galin Hernandez > > Subject: KIS-List: Catto Propeller > > > > Is anyone flying with a Catto propeller? I know Bob Reed has one but is n ot > > flying yet. > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 06:10:21 AM PST US > > From: "Graham Brighton" > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 > > > > Great Reply Kevin , > > But few more moving parts than 3 hey > > ..!! ... with the Turbo ... and gearbox too .. and what gearbox are u > > intending use/try .... ? not much available with proven hours and or > > tested TV analysis ..!!?? > > Graham > > > > .. > > > > > > From: Kevin Alderman > > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:26 PM > > Subject: KIS-List: Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 > > > > > > A turbine is a good engine, but not for our general use. The biggest > > factor is fuel burn There is a small helicopter that uses a 100 hp SOLAS > > turbine for power. It is small, light and responsive. It burns 9 GPH at > > idle on the ground, and making 100 HP it burns closer to 14 GPH. > > Turbines are great for high altitude high speed flight, for flight in > > our normal flight regime it will work but the fuel costs are multitudes > > higher. > > > > > > Also, turbines such as the SOLAS operate at high speeds around 50,000 > > RPM, and as such need a gearbox to reduce the engine speed to prop > > speed. The Helicopter supplier makes their own, you would have to find > > one somewhere. > > > > > > Turbines have a very very narrow power and engine speed range. The power > > is varied by a CS prop. Your gearbox will have to be able to support a > > CS prop and include a governor. The engine itself will (or should) have > > a controller that controls/ limits engine RPM, but you will still need a > > method of controlling the prop pitch. > > > > > > In a turboprop like a Pilatus, it goes like this: The engine is started > > at ground idle, which is a turbine speed of around 80% of flight speed, > > i.e. 40K RPM. After warm up and taxi, the engine is brought up to flight > > cruise power and the prop is cycled somewhat similar to our run-up with > > a piston recip. For takeoff, the throttle is pushed to takeoff and the > > prop full forward for maximum THRUST. At altitude, the throttle is > > pulled back to flight cruise, the prop placed in cruise and off we go. > > > > > > Turbine engines are only cost efficient at high altitudes and high > > speeds. Most jet operators will tell you that if they had to fly below > > 30K feet all the time they couldn't afford the fuel. > > > > > > Another added benefit of a turbine is pressurization- they take > > compressed high pressure air from the cold- compressor- section and send > > it into the cabin. The air is hot from compression, and doubles as cabin > > heat. If you aren't going to fly at the flight levels, this is another > > waste of power. > > > > > > I am building a Wheeler Express- after flights to Central America, the > > Bahamas, and other places that do not have Avgas, I thought about a > > 300HP turbine. My plane with a 300 HP gas engine will burn around 12 gph > > at 180 kts at 14,500 ft. My 100 gal fuel capacity will give me more than > > a 1000 mile range. The 300 HP turbine fuel burn is closer to 28 GPH in > > flight even at FL 180. Cuts my range in half, even though I gain 30 kts > > in speed. > > > > > > Kevin Alderman > > Avionics Tech/ Aircraft restoration > > Building a Wheeler Express with a Mazda Rotary 13B turbo- 300 HP- 3 > > moving parts. > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 3:00 AM, KIS-List Digest Server > > wrote: > > > > * > > > > > > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > > > > > > Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the > > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest > > formatted > > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked > > Indexes > > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII > > version > > of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > > > HTML Version: > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html & > > Chapter 13-04-29&Archive=KIS > > > > Text Version: > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt& C > > hapter 13-04-29&Archive=KIS > > > > > > ==================== > > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > > > > ==================== > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > KIS-List Digest Archive > > --- > > Total Messages Posted Mon 04/29/13: 2 > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Today's Message Index: > > ---------------------- > > > > 1. 04:59 AM - Re: Turbine (ALFRED ROSA) > > 2. 06:45 AM - Re: Turbine (Galin Hernandez) > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 04:59:55 AM PST US > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Turbine > > From: ALFRED ROSA > > > > Just wondering what advantage you are hoping to achieve with a > > turbine? > > Also, If you need a Cruiser without engine and avionics, I have one > > in my > > garage. > > > > Al > > > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 12:55 AM, John Petrie > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > It's been a while since I last posted on this group, largely due to > > the > > > fact that I sold my KIS Cruiser. > > > I am now looking for a new project and am considering buying my > > Cruiser > > > back and fitting a turbine engine. I know absolutely nothing about > > > turbines, and hence the reason for this post. If anyone can point > > me in > > > the right direction or provide some other useful information, I'm > > all ears. > > > Thanks a mil. > > > > > > John Petrie > > > Sonic Factory > > > 082 574 6190 > > > Sent from my mobile > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 06:45:52 AM PST US > > From: Galin Hernandez > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Turbine > > > > Now THAT sounds like a cool project. I think 100LL will eventually go > > away > > and a Jet-A type alternative is a good idea. Besides, it sounds like > > fun to > > do. > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 11:55 PM, John Petrie > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > It's been a while since I last posted on this group, largely due to > > the > > > fact that I sold my KIS Cruiser. > > > I am now looking for a new project and am considering buying my > > Cruiser > > > back and fitting a turbine engine. I know absolutely nothing about > > > turbines, and hence the reason for this post. If anyone can point > > me in > > > the right direction or provide some other useful information, I'm > > all ears. > > > Thanks a mil. > > > > > > John Petrie > > > Sonic Factory > > > 082 574 6190 > > > Sent from my mobile > > > > > > > > > > > > ======== > > rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > > ======== > > http://forums.matronics.com > > ======== > > le, List Admin. > > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ======== > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 06:46:24 AM PST US > > From: "William Schertz" > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Catto Propeller > > > > I am flying with a 76x76 Catto 2 blade prop on my Rotary powered KIS > > > > Bill Schertz > > > > > > From: Galin Hernandez > > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:07 AM > > Subject: KIS-List: Catto Propeller > > > > Is anyone flying with a Catto propeller? I know Bob Reed has one but is > > not flying yet. > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 05:11:36 PM PST US > > From: Galin Hernandez > > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Catto Propeller > > > > Bill, How do you like the propeller? > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 8:46 AM, William Schertz > >wrote: > > > > > I am flying with a 76x76 Catto 2 blade prop on my Rotary powered KIS > > > > > > Bill Schertz > > > > > > > > > *From:* Galin Hernandez > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:07 AM > > > *To:* kis-list@matronics.com > > > *Subject:* KIS-List: Catto Propeller > > > > > > Is anyone flying with a Catto propeller? I know Bob Reed has one but i s > > > not flying yet. > > > > > > * > > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List"> > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.co m/c* > > > > > > * > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________ ________ > > > Time: 04:11:00 AM PST US > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Catto Propeller > From: Scott Stearns > > I have a 68x80 prince that I might be selling soon. I think I am going to g > et a whirlwind ground adjustable prop. > > Scott > > > On Apr 30, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Galin Hernandez wrote: > > > Is anyone flying with a Catto propeller? I know Bob Reed has one but is n o > t flying yet. > > > > > > ======== > > ======== > > ======== > > ======== > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________ ________ > > > Time: 11:01:23 PM PST US > From: Matt Dralle > Subject: KIS-List: Official KIS-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) > > > Dear Listers, > > Please read over the KIS-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The > complete KIS-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the > following URL: > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/KIS-List.FAQ.html > > Thank you, > > Matt Dralle > Matronics Email List Administrator > > > [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as > Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors . ] > > > This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm > > > ************************************************************ > ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* > ************************************************************ > > > PLEASE READ. This document contains KIS-List policies and information > for new and old subscribers. Understanding the KIS-List policies will > minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the KIS-List > running smoothly for all of us. > > > ****************************************** > *** Quick Start Guide to List Features *** > ****************************************** > > There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each > one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator > you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this > List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL: > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > > > **************************************** > *** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe *** > **************************************** > > Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and > select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. Yo u > may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of > your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the > complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information. > The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is: > > http://www.matronics.com/subscribe > > Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsc iption > process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption reque st > was received, and the second confirms that the process has been complet ed. > > You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request .. > The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot p ost > > until you receive the second conformation email message. > > > ***************************** > *** How to Post a Message *** > ***************************** > > Send an email message to: > > kis-list@matronics.com > > Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed > to the List. > > > ***************************************************** > *** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post *** > ***************************************************** > > When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the messag e > is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the > email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor. > If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it > is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that > gets posted to the Lists. > > Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very import ant > with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outl ook > or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be > functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SP AM > test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List: > > smith@machine.domain.com > > smith@domain.com > > Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure > your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed t o > the List. > > > ************************************** > *** Enclosure Support on the Lists *** > ************************************** > > Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsh eets > is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and the se > are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the > content of enclosures. > > These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronic s > Lists: > > 1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists .. > > 2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the L ists. > > 3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site. > > 4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives. > > 5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature. > > 6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed: > > bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls > > All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to > sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from > a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk .. > > 7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to post ing > to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down > the process of posting the message !! > > > Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these r ules > > could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Li sts. > > 1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files > you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that the re > are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you p ost > 30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on the se > folks and the rest of us, for that matter. > > 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000 > pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just > unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture > down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the > file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less. > > Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allow s > you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically > scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use i t! > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.m spx > Look for the link "Image Resizer" > > 3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not > post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother .. > And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even > questionable. !! > > 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 membe rs > subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting > to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and > BE COURTEOUS! > > Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where > you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server > for long time viewing and availability. > > > ******************* > *** Digest Mode *** > ******************* > > Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be starte d. > This digest will contain the same information that is currently appende d > to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:" > and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisti ng > of a line of underscores. > > Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be > combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email l ist. > > To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form > described above, and just select the Digest version of the List. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscribe > > Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versi ons > of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable. > > Now some caveats: > > * Messages sent to "kis-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard > email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the > digest List. > > * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, y ou > will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end o f > the day. > > * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to t he > normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please chan ge > the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please > *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*. > > > **************************** > *** List Digest Browser *** > **************************** > > An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain t ext > or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was poste d to > the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be fou nd > at the following location: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest > > > ***************************************** > *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** > ***************************************** > > At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very > > small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to a rchive > > it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the > message: > > do not archive > > Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to L ist > email distribution as normal. > > > ********************************************** > ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** > ********************************************** > > Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounce d > email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be pro mptly > removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receivin g > messages from the KIS-List, go to the following Web page, and look > for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. > > The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that > automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that > caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox > full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the > Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: > > http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed > > If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please f eel > free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. > > > ******************************* > *** List Member Information *** > ******************************* > > If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and > paper mail address in the following format: > > smith@somehost.com > Joe Smith > 123 Airport Lane > Tower, CA 91234-1234 > 098-765-1234 w > 123-456-7890 h > > Please forward this information to the following email address: > > requests@matronics.com > > I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when > there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT > be used for any other commercial purpose. > > > **************************************** > *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** > **************************************** > > Recent messages posted to the KIS-List are also made available on > the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are > available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, > Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are > updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a mes sage > > or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). > You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List > Browser Interface in view-mode. > > http://www.matronics.com/browselist/kis-list > > > ******************************************* > *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** > ******************************************* > > A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all KIS-List content. > content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the e mail > > distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as t he > List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to t he > respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to > the web Forums. > > You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. > If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you > will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few > minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of th e > main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also > enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also ne ed to > > Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive th e > Email Distribution of the List, however. > > The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following U RL: > > http://forums.matronics.com > > > ********************************* > *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** > ********************************* > > In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often acces sed > information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: > > http://wiki.matronics.com > > The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful informat ion > for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web p age > > where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wi ki > permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immed iately. > > While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be > comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any > images and email it to: > > wiki-support@matronics.com > > One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct > a Wiki page for you. > > Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of t he > Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take t hat > post and convert it into a Wiki page. > > > ********************* > *** List Archives *** > ********************* > > A file containing of all of the previous postings to the KIS-List is > available on line. The archive file information is available via the > Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: > > > * KIS-List.FAQ > > - Latest version of the KIS-List Frequently Asked Question > page (this document). > > * KIS-Archive.digest.complete > > - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and > page breaks inserted between messages. > > * KIS-Archive.digest.vol-?? > > - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections th at > can more easily handled. > > * KIS-Archive.digest.complete.zip > > - Same as the KIS-Archive.digest.complete file above, but > in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. > > * KIS-Archive.digest.complete.Z > > - Same as the KIS-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in > UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. > > > Download Via FTP > ---------------- > > The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com > in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in > a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensiti ve.) > > ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives > > > Download Via Web > ---------------- > > The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found > toward the bottom of the following web page: > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > > ****************************************** > *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** > ****************************************** > > All messages posted to the KIS-List are also available using the > Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages > in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. > > http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?KIS > > > ***************************************** > **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** > ***************************************** > > You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search En gine > to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the > List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently > available List archives. > > http://www.matronics.com/search > > > **************************** > *** File and Photo Share *** > **************************** > > With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictur es > and other data with members of the List without having to forward a > copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email > them to: > > pictures@matronics.com > > !! ==> Please including the following information with each submiss ion: > > 1) Email Lists that they are related to. > 2) Your Full Name. > 3) Your Email Address. > 4) One line Subject description. > 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. > 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file > > Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scan ned > for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and > photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try t o > process them every few days. > > Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be > sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new > Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. > > For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main > Index Page: > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > > ************************** > *** List Archive CDROM *** > ************************** > > A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains > all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The arch ives > for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware searc h > engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it > and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make > great gifts! > > http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM > > > ********************************** > *** List Support Contributions *** > ********************************** > > The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it memb ers. > You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of > annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pag es > associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November > I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month , > I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they > are comfortable. > > I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during t he > Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donat ed > by companies that are themselves List members. > > Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists > including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server > system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many > many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the > variety of services found here. > > Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely volun tary > and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obt ains > value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. > > Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just > subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. > > The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are > a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and > sending a personal check. > > If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to > support its continued operation? > > http://www.matronics.com/contributions > > Thank you! > Matt Dralle > Email List Administrator > > > ************************************************************************** **** > KIS-List Usage Guidelines > ************************************************************************** **** > > The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the KIS-List. > You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein .. > Failure to use the KIS-List in the manner described below may result > in the removal of the subscribers from the List. > > > KIS-List Policy Statement > > The purpose of the KIS-List is to provide a forum of discussion for > things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals > are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver > high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie > among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals > requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of > the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: > > > - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit > posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long > lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. > > - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be > relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. > > - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive > that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise an d > terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and > responses. > > - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, > aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line > about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid > bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary > space in the archive. > > - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is > easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the > web page or FAQ first. > > - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of > your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it > easy to find threads in the archive. > > - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your > response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the > reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that > quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive > can not be overstated! > > - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT > then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the > "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your > response to the original poster. You might have to actively address > your response with the original poster's email address. > > - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something > to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I > agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent > to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. > > - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to > comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly > contribute something valuable. > > - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone > polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack > other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously > controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that > will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. > > - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly > subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by > List members promoting their respective products or items for sale > should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble > a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but > is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to > everyone, including those who provide products to the entire > community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the > operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. > > ------- > > > [This is an automated posting.] > > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________ ________ > > > Time: 11:06:03 PM PST US > From: Matt Dralle > Subject: KIS-List: Official KIS-List Usage Guidelines > > > Dear Listers, > > Please read over the KIS-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete > KIS-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the > following URL: > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/KIS-List.FAQ.html > > Thank you, > > Matt Dralle > Matronics Email List Administrator > > > ************************************************************************** **** > KIS-List Usage Guidelines > ************************************************************************** **** > > The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the KIS-List. > You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein .. > Failure to use the KIS-List in the manner described below may result > in the removal of the subscribers from the List. > > > KIS-List Policy Statement > > The purpose of the KIS-List is to provide a forum of discussion for > things related to this particular discussion group. 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Informal presentation and moderation should be the > operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. > > ------- > > > [This is an automated posting.] > > do not archive > > > > > > ========== > rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > ========== > http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > le, List Admin. > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:59 PM PST US Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: KIS-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 04/30/13 From: John Petrie Thanks for all the replies everyone. Certainly a lot of food for thought. One thing is for sure though =AD after m y Subaru experience, I definitely won't be going the automotive conversion route again. Chat soon, John From: Kevin Alderman Subject: KIS-List: Re: KIS-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 04/30/13 The gearbox is made by Tracy Crook at rotary aviation. There are many of these flying around the world- really. The longest running one that I have personally seen is Tracys RV4 with 2200 hours, and his RV6 3 rotor with ove r 1000. There are also 2 lancairs in Texas, an RV4 with a turbo mazda that raced last year at Reno etc. The gearbox is really simple- a central drive shaft made from a truck axle turned by a planetary set from a Ford E4OD truck transmission. If you count the 6 planets in the gear set, we are up to 10 moving parts including the turbo for the whole thing. A Lycoming IO360 has 1548 :). The pros include a new engine for less than 4K, few moving parts, no valves and high power The cons include you have to build it yourself or find someone that has don e it. My old IO520D needed 2 cylinders. These cylinders cost more than a new rotary. I developed a bad skip in flight with the 520D, and when I landed I did a compression check and changed the oil. 0 compression on number 1, 30 lbs on 2. I owned a construction company for 22 years and as such know the value of equipment, so as we normally would I set out to rebuild the 520. This is where the issue came in- 2 ADs. The first said that I had the light crankcase and if I took it apart I had to send it off. Continental told me that less than 40% would come out as OK. AD number 2 said that I had a non VAR crank, and couldnt re-use it. If I opened the crankcase, the crank had to go. So, to rebuild the engine I needed a new crank at over 8K, all new cylinders, possibly a new crankcase, etc. OR- (now is the time to sit down) if the engine had acceptable oil pressure I could stick 2 cylinders on it and fly and be FAA legal. In spite of a handful of metal in the oil removed from the engine, I had oil pressure in the green when it was tested. Who knows how much bearing damage was done by the metal. But I couldn't open it up and even check the bearings. Unacceptable. And with the 2 ADs, Continental gave me a whole $3,000 credit toward a new $54,000 engine. Again unacceptable. There are many of these engines in airplanes- half of the Air Forces UAVs are powered by jet fuel burning rotary engines- as well as lots of boats, equipment, Lancairs, Cozys, RVs, etc. I have an engine in my plane, and a spare pickled in the garage. So while the "airplane" engine guys spend $2,000 on a cylinder, If I have a problem I just swap the whole engine and fly with a brand new one. I am also finished with the system but it works out like this- Mazda 13B rotary, Rotary aviation gearbox at 2.85:1. EFI with mechanical backup. The throttle will be computer controlled similar to cruise control in your car. There will be 4 normal positions- takeoff- cruise- flight idle- ground idle. For takeoff push it to the T/O position, and the computer will control boost, power, temps, etc. and keep it at 7500 RPM. After climb pull it to flight cruise and the computer will keep it at 6000 RPM whether you are in a climb or descent. When you want to go down, flight idle will reduce the RPM to 4500, which will also be the taxi setting. Then ground idle for waiting to go. There will always be manual control, but shouldn't be needed with redundant EFI computers and 8 hours of battery backup. I could go on for days, but you should have a good picture of what is in my head by now. Kevin Alderman Maybe I should add Obsessive Compulsive to what goes under my name! On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 3:00 AM, KIS-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ======================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ======================== > > Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chap ter=2 > 013-04-30&Archive=KIS > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapt er > 13-04-30&Archive=KIS > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > KIS-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Tue 04/30/13: 5 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 03:27 AM - Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 (Kevin Alderma n) > 2. 06:08 AM - Catto Propeller (Galin Hernandez) > 3. 06:10 AM - Re: Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 (Graham > Brighton) > 4. 06:46 AM - Re: Catto Propeller (William Schertz) > 5. 05:11 PM - Re: Catto Propeller (Galin Hernandez) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:27:12 AM PST US > Subject: KIS-List: Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 > From: Kevin Alderman > > A turbine is a good engine, but not for our general use. The biggest fact or > is fuel burn There is a small helicopter that uses a 100 hp SOLAS turbine > for power. It is small, light and responsive. It burns 9 GPH at idle on t he > ground, and making 100 HP it burns closer to 14 GPH. Turbines are great f or > high altitude high speed flight, for flight in our normal flight regime i t > will work but the fuel costs are multitudes higher. > > Also, turbines such as the SOLAS operate at high speeds around 50,000 RPM , > and as such need a gearbox to reduce the engine speed to prop speed. The > Helicopter supplier makes their own, you would have to find one somewhere .. > > Turbines have a very very narrow power and engine speed range. The power is > varied by a CS prop. Your gearbox will have to be able to support a CS pr op > and include a governor. The engine itself will (or should) have a > controller that controls/ limits engine RPM, but you will still need a > method of controlling the prop pitch. > > In a turboprop like a Pilatus, it goes like this: The engine is started a t > ground idle, which is a turbine speed of around 80% of flight speed, i.e. > 40K RPM. After warm up and taxi, the engine is brought up to flight cruis e > power and the prop is cycled somewhat similar to our run-up with a piston > recip. For takeoff, the throttle is pushed to takeoff and the prop full > forward for maximum THRUST. At altitude, the throttle is pulled back to > flight cruise, the prop placed in cruise and off we go. > > Turbine engines are only cost efficient at high altitudes and high speeds .. > Most jet operators will tell you that if they had to fly below 30K feet a ll > the time they couldn't afford the fuel. > > Another added benefit of a turbine is pressurization- they take compresse d > high pressure air from the cold- compressor- section and send it into the > cabin. The air is hot from compression, and doubles as cabin heat. If you > aren't going to fly at the flight levels, this is another waste of power. > > I am building a Wheeler Express- after flights to Central America, the > Bahamas, and other places that do not have Avgas, I thought about a 300HP > turbine. My plane with a 300 HP gas engine will burn around 12 gph at 180 > kts at 14,500 ft. My 100 gal fuel capacity will give me more than a 1000 > mile range. The 300 HP turbine fuel burn is closer to 28 GPH in flight ev en > at FL 180. Cuts my range in half, even though I gain 30 kts in speed. > > Kevin Alderman > Avionics Tech/ Aircraft restoration > Building a Wheeler Express with a Mazda Rotary 13B turbo- 300 HP- 3 movin g > parts. > > > On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 3:00 AM, KIS-List Digest Server < > kis-list@matronics.com> wrote: > >> > * >> > >> > ======================= >> > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive >> > ======================= >> > >> > Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the >> > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest format ted >> > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexe s >> > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII versio n >> > of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor >> > such as Notepad or with a web browser. >> > >> > HTML Version: >> > >> > >> > >> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Cha pter >> 13-04-29&Archive=KIS >> > >> > Text Version: >> > >> > >> > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Ch apter >> 13-04-29&Archive=KIS >> > >> > >> > ===================== >> > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive >> > ===================== >> > >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------- >> > KIS-List Digest Archive >> > --- >> > Total Messages Posted Mon 04/29/13: 2 >> > ---------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > >> > Today's Message Index: >> > ---------------------- >> > >> > 1. 04:59 AM - Re: Turbine (ALFRED ROSA) >> > 2. 06:45 AM - Re: Turbine (Galin Hernandez) >> > >> > >> > ________________________________ Message 1 >> > _____________________________________ >> > >> > >> > Time: 04:59:55 AM PST US >> > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Turbine >> > From: ALFRED ROSA >> > >> > Just wondering what advantage you are hoping to achieve with a turbine ? >> > Also, If you need a Cruiser without engine and avionics, I have one in my >> > garage. >> > >> > Al >> > >> > On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 12:55 AM, John Petrie >> > >wrote: >> > >>> > > >>> > > Hi all, >>> > > >>> > > It's been a while since I last posted on this group, largely due to the >>> > > fact that I sold my KIS Cruiser. >>> > > I am now looking for a new project and am considering buying my Cru iser >>> > > back and fitting a turbine engine. I know absolutely nothing about >>> > > turbines, and hence the reason for this post. If anyone can point me in >>> > > the right direction or provide some other useful information, I'm a ll >> > ears. >>> > > Thanks a mil. >>> > > >>> > > John Petrie >>> > > Sonic Factory >>> > > 082 574 6190 >>> > > Sent from my mobile >>> > > >>> > > >> > >> > ________________________________ Message 2 >> > _____________________________________ >> > >> > >> > Time: 06:45:52 AM PST US >> > From: Galin Hernandez >> > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Turbine >> > >> > Now THAT sounds like a cool project. I think 100LL will eventually go away >> > and a Jet-A type alternative is a good idea. Besides, it sounds like f un to >> > do. >> > >> > >> > On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 11:55 PM, John Petrie >> > >wrote: >> > >>> > > >>> > > Hi all, >>> > > >>> > > It's been a while since I last posted on this group, largely due to the >>> > > fact that I sold my KIS Cruiser. >>> > > I am now looking for a new project and am considering buying my Cru iser >>> > > back and fitting a turbine engine. I know absolutely nothing about >>> > > turbines, and hence the reason for this post. If anyone can point me in >>> > > the right direction or provide some other useful information, I'm a ll >> > ears. >>> > > Thanks a mil. >>> > > >>> > > John Petrie >>> > > Sonic Factory >>> > > 082 574 6190 >>> > > Sent from my mobile >>> > > >>> > > >> > >> > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:08:01 AM PST US > From: Galin Hernandez > Subject: KIS-List: Catto Propeller > > Is anyone flying with a Catto propeller? I know Bob Reed has one but is n ot > flying yet. > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:10:21 AM PST US > From: "Graham Brighton" > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 > > Great Reply Kevin , > But few more moving parts than 3 hey > ..!! ... with the Turbo ... and gearbox too .. and what gearbox are u > intending use/try .... ? not much available with proven hours and or > tested TV analysis ..!!?? > Graham > > .. > > > From: Kevin Alderman > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:26 PM > Subject: KIS-List: Re: KIS-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 04/29/13 > > > A turbine is a good engine, but not for our general use. The biggest > factor is fuel burn There is a small helicopter that uses a 100 hp SOLAS > turbine for power. It is small, light and responsive. It burns 9 GPH at > idle on the ground, and making 100 HP it burns closer to 14 GPH. > Turbines are great for high altitude high speed flight, for flight in > our normal flight regime it will work but the fuel costs are multitudes > higher. > > > Also, turbines such as the SOLAS operate at high speeds around 50,000 > RPM, and as such need a gearbox to reduce the engine speed to prop > speed. The Helicopter supplier makes their own, you would have to find > one somewhere. > > > Turbines have a very very narrow power and engine speed range. The power > is varied by a CS prop. Your gearbox will have to be able to support a > CS prop and include a governor. The engine itself will (or should) have > a controller that controls/ limits engine RPM, but you will still need a > method of controlling the prop pitch. > > > In a turboprop like a Pilatus, it goes like this: The engine is started > at ground idle, which is a turbine speed of around 80% of flight speed, > i.e. 40K RPM. After warm up and taxi, the engine is brought up to flight > cruise power and the prop is cycled somewhat similar to our run-up with > a piston recip. For takeoff, the throttle is pushed to takeoff and the > prop full forward for maximum THRUST. At altitude, the throttle is > pulled back to flight cruise, the prop placed in cruise and off we go. > > > Turbine engines are only cost efficient at high altitudes and high > speeds. Most jet operators will tell you that if they had to fly below > 30K feet all the time they couldn't afford the fuel. > > > Another added benefit of a turbine is pressurization- they take > compressed high pressure air from the cold- compressor- section and send > it into the cabin. The air is hot from compression, and doubles as cabin > heat. If you aren't going to fly at the flight levels, this is another > waste of power. > > > I am building a Wheeler Express- after flights to Central America, the > Bahamas, and other places that do not have Avgas, I thought about a > 300HP turbine. My plane with a 300 HP gas engine will burn around 12 gph > at 180 kts at 14,500 ft. My 100 gal fuel capacity will give me more than > a 1000 mile range. The 300 HP turbine fuel burn is closer to 28 GPH in > flight even at FL 180. Cuts my range in half, even though I gain 30 kts > in speed. > > > Kevin Alderman > Avionics Tech/ Aircraft restoration > Building a Wheeler Express with a Mazda Rotary 13B turbo- 300 HP- 3 > moving parts. > > > On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 3:00 AM, KIS-List Digest Server > wrote: > > * > > > > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > > > > Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest > formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked > Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII > version > of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html& > Chapter 13-04-29&Archive=KIS > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C > hapter 13-04-29&Archive=KIS > > > > ===================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > > ===================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > KIS-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Mon 04/29/13: 2 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 04:59 AM - Re: Turbine (ALFRED ROSA) > 2. 06:45 AM - Re: Turbine (Galin Hernandez) > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:59:55 AM PST US > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Turbine > From: ALFRED ROSA > > Just wondering what advantage you are hoping to achieve with a > turbine? > Also, If you need a Cruiser without engine and avionics, I have one > in my > garage. > > Al > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 12:55 AM, John Petrie > wrote: > >> > >> > Hi all, >> > >> > It's been a while since I last posted on this group, largely due to > the >> > fact that I sold my KIS Cruiser. >> > I am now looking for a new project and am considering buying my > Cruiser >> > back and fitting a turbine engine. I know absolutely nothing about >> > turbines, and hence the reason for this post. If anyone can point > me in >> > the right direction or provide some other useful information, I'm > all ears. >> > Thanks a mil. >> > >> > John Petrie >> > Sonic Factory >> > 082 574 6190 >> > Sent from my mobile >> > >> > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:45:52 AM PST US > From: Galin Hernandez > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Turbine > > Now THAT sounds like a cool project. I think 100LL will eventually go > away > and a Jet-A type alternative is a good idea. Besides, it sounds like > fun to > do. > > > On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 11:55 PM, John Petrie > wrote: > >> > >> > Hi all, >> > >> > It's been a while since I last posted on this group, largely due to > the >> > fact that I sold my KIS Cruiser. >> > I am now looking for a new project and am considering buying my > Cruiser >> > back and fitting a turbine engine. I know absolutely nothing about >> > turbines, and hence the reason for this post. If anyone can point > me in >> > the right direction or provide some other useful information, I'm > all ears. >> > Thanks a mil. >> > >> > John Petrie >> > Sonic Factory >> > 082 574 6190 >> > Sent from my mobile >> > >> > > > > ========= > rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > ========= > http://forums.matronics.com > ========= > le, List Admin. > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========= > > > ________________________________ Message 4 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:46:24 AM PST US > From: "William Schertz" > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Catto Propeller > > I am flying with a 76x76 Catto 2 blade prop on my Rotary powered KIS > > Bill Schertz > > > From: Galin Hernandez > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:07 AM > Subject: KIS-List: Catto Propeller > > Is anyone flying with a Catto propeller? I know Bob Reed has one but is > not flying yet. > > > ________________________________ Message 5 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:11:36 PM PST US > From: Galin Hernandez > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Catto Propeller > > Bill, How do you like the propeller? > > > On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 8:46 AM, William Schertz wr ote: > >> > I am flying with a 76x76 Catto 2 blade prop on my Rotary powered KIS >> > >> > Bill Schertz >> > >> > >> > *From:* Galin Hernandez >> > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:07 AM >> > *To:* kis-list@matronics.com >> > *Subject:* KIS-List: Catto Propeller >> > >> > Is anyone flying with a Catto propeller? I know Bob Reed has one but is >> > not flying yet. >> > >> > * >> > >> > >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics. com/N >> avigator?KIS-List >> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ c* >> > >> > * >> > >> > * >> > >> > > > > > > ========== > rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > ========== > http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > le, List Admin. > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.