Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:27 AM - Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body airbox? (mark_trickel)
2. 09:16 AM - Re: Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body airbox? (Robert Reed)
3. 10:29 AM - SV: TR-1 Nose gear leg - again (Hans Christian Erstad)
4. 11:08 AM - Re: Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body airbox? (Tim Yoder)
5. 11:40 AM - Re: Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body airbox? (Alfred Rosa)
6. 12:55 PM - Re: Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body airbox? (Mark Kettering)
7. 01:20 PM - Re: Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body airbox? (Robert Reed)
8. 07:56 PM - Re: Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body airbox? (Scott Stearns)
9. 08:03 PM - Re: Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body airbox? (Scott Stearns)
10. 09:07 PM - Re: Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body airbox? (Robert Reed)
11. 11:08 PM - Re: Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body airbox? (Scott Stearns)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body airbox? |
Hello Robert,
I just return from a wilderness canoe camping trip in New York's Adirondack Park
to find you have overcome yet another problem. I like your idea of ducting cabin
heat off the airbox intake. I also know how hard it is to work in extreme
heat and humidity conditions. My dad and I rebuilt an Ercoupe and when we brought
it back to the hanger to finish it off over a couple of summers the heat
inside the back tar coated roof was unbearable no matter how early we arrived
to work on the airplane. I hope I have as good as results as you when it comes
to solving some of my dilemmas. I have attached a few pics of a couple of things
I need to address:
Underside of wing-the scrap on the right is from the time Ken ran over the runway
light at Oshkosh. The scrap on the left from the hole in the tank is from Kens
last flight when he hit a fence post, maybe a result of the tail being cut
off. The way hole is cut in is a lesson on how not to prepare to patch a laminated
composite structure.
Flap hinge-as the airplane rolled over the fence post it caught on the flap hinge
and bent it. The wing came to rest on the post about a foot out board on the
flap. That gouge has been patched.
Inside the slosh tank-Ken took a different tack on the fuel tanks, they do not
have to standard flapper system to close the tank, it has some kind of metal ball
in a track that seals off the tank. He also did not coat the tank with the
prescribed two coats of resin he used a slosh compound. A cool idea but after
20 years it is peeling of in areas like the tank filler and bottom fuel tester
drain where the resin is real smooth from gluing in these parts.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406238#406238
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/bog_river_to_lows_lake_173.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/km3_slosh_tank_599.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/km3_flap_hinge_123.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/km3_wing_392.jpg
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body airbox? |
Mark,=0A-=0ALooks like you had a great trip, wish I had been there, looks
great.=0A-=0ARegarding the fuel tank....Good luck with that.- I have N
O idea how to fix except sand and try to recoat with Jeffcoat or something.
- The flaking looks really bad and I wonder if the second bay is as bad.
- Makes me want to scope out mine before I go any further.=0A-=0AThe fl
ap hinge doesn't look too bad from the photo but may need replacement if bi
nding.=0A-=0AThe hole in the wing looks like a reverse construction proce
ss.- Layup two or three ply flat sheet of fiberglass with peel ply on one
side to make good bonding surface.- Fit the sheet to the inside of the w
ing hole and bond all the way around.- Fill in the middle with foam and b
ond to the inside skin.- Finally, glass over the outside-and flair into
existing skin.- The result should be just as strong as the original skin
if not a bit more so.=0A-=0ASounds so easy doesn't it?- The devil is a
lways in the details though.- =0A-=0AI am having to do much the same op
eration on the cowling trying to fabricate an air scoop.- It sure looks f
unny in the intermediate stages but I am hopeful the final result won't loo
k quite so odd.- It would have looked a lot better if I has used the same
color foam.- I will try to get back to it this weekend-and start the s
haping with a rasp and sandpaper.- I figure it will take a couple of week
ends to shape it, fill it, shape it some more, fill it some more, and then
start the glass work.--Followed by-more sanding, filling, and repeat
until sick of it.- The foam I am using can-easily be shaped, filled wit
h epoxy micro mix for a bondable surface and then-be dissolved with Aceto
ne when finished.- It won't look pretty on the inside but I can live with
that.- I am doing it all in place to make sure the air inlet is properly
positioned for the air box attachment.=0A-=0AIt is hard to see from the
photos but the underside is a flat sheet of 4-ply fiberglass that I fabrica
ted for some other parts that I cut to form the bottom of the scoop and cow
ling.- I used pop rivets and bonded- (belt and suspenders) it to the ex
isting cowling bottom.- When it took the rounded shape it carried it forw
ard to help flair into the existing-contours.- I will post additional p
hotos of the process and the completed-cowling.- (BUT ONLY IF IT COMES
OUT LOOKING RIGHT)=0A-=0ABob Reed=0AMaking slow but steady progress.=0A
-=0A-=0A-=0A- =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: mark_
trickel <marktrickel@gmail.com>S=0ATo: kis-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Thur
sday, August 8, 2013 10:26 AM=0ASubject: KIS-List: Re: How long does it tak
e to build an throttle body airbox?=0A =0A=0A--> KIS-List message posted b
y: "mark_trickel" <marktrickel@gmail.com>=0A=0AHello Robert,=0A=0AI just re
turn from a wilderness canoe camping trip in New York's Adirondack Park to
find you have overcome yet another problem. I like your idea of ducting cab
in heat off the airbox intake. I also know how hard it is to work in extrem
e heat and humidity conditions. My dad and I rebuilt an Ercoupe and when we
brought it back to the hanger to finish it off over a couple of summers th
e heat inside the back tar coated roof was unbearable no matter how early w
e arrived to work on the airplane. I hope I have as good as results as you
when it comes to solving some of my dilemmas. I have attached a few pics of
a couple of things I need to address:=0A=0AUnderside of wing-the scrap on
the right is from the time Ken ran over the runway light at Oshkosh. The sc
rap on the left from the hole in the tank is from Kens last flight when he
hit a fence post, maybe a result of the tail being cut off. The way hole is
cut in is a lesson on how not to prepare to patch a laminated composite st
ructure.=0A=0AFlap hinge-as the airplane rolled over the fence post it caug
ht on the flap hinge and bent it. The wing came to rest on the post about a
foot out board on the flap. That gouge has been patched.=0A=0AInside the s
losh tank-Ken took a different tack on the fuel tanks, they do not have to
standard flapper system to close the tank, it has some kind of metal ball i
n a track that seals off the tank. He also did not coat the tank with the p
rescribed two coats of resin he used a slosh compound. A cool idea but afte
r 20 years it is peeling of in areas like the tank filler and bottom fuel t
ester drain where the resin is real smooth from gluing in these parts.=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/v
iewtopic.php?p=406238#406238=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAttachments: =0A=0Ahttp://foru
ms.matronics.com//files/bog_river_to_lows_lake_173.jpg=0Ahttp://forums.matr
onics.com//files/km3_slosh_tank_599.jpg=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//file
s/km3_flap_hinge_123.jpg=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/km3_wing_392.
==================
Message 3
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Subject: | TR-1 Nose gear leg - again |
I knew this Mark, but I have not gotten around to do that modification.
It now moves upward on my to-do list :)
Thanks everyone else for sharing the experiences with the gear leg, and
the
advices.
I think the way to go is to remove the leg, remove the paint and get
someone
competent to re-shape or replace the bent part. Then modify the Pilot
handbook to say "stay away from grass runways"!
Regards
Hans Christian
-----Opprinnelig melding-----
Fra: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] P=E5 vegne av Mark
Kettering
Sendt: 8. august 2013 04:34
Til: kis-list@matronics.com
Emne: Re: KIS-List: TR-1 Nose gear leg - again
The main issue with the nose gear is the main gear location!
On most trigear aircraft the main gear is placed so that about 85% to
92% of
the load is carried by the main gear and only 8% to 15% is carried by
the
nose gear with a loaded aircraft. On the TR-1 with the stock main gear
location the nose gear has about 30% of the load! Twice what it should
and
twice what the nose gear is designed to hold.
So if you have not done so already move your main gear forward. The
simplest way is to angle it forward by making a flox wedge shim between
the
gear and the gear tunnel. Not only will this reduce the load on your
nose
gear it will make takeoffs and landing much more smooth.
If your nose loads are what they should be and you land on the mains you
should have no problem with the original nose gear.
Regards,
Mark Kettering
-----Original Message-----
From: Hans Christian Erstad
Sent: Aug 7, 2013 2:06 PM
Subject: KIS-List: TR-1 Nose gear leg - again
I have the original
design round tube nose gear leg. As I remember it was said it was heat
treated, but I no not really know .
Since all the bad experiences with the nose grear, I have been careful,
and
only operated from asphalt runways. However, on the weekend I flew to an
airfield with grass runway. When arriving home I discovered that the leg
have been bent. The straight portion of the leg is still straight, so it
must be the bend at the lower end that have been bent further.
The bending
is not much, and I could keep on flying, but I should really do
something.
Have it checked for cracking, and then keep on flying (never from grass
again) or have it bent back to its original chape, or have the bent part
replaced, or..............
This topic have been
covered well in the past, but if anyone have some experience to share
with
me?
regards
Hans
Christian
List
7-Day
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body airbox? |
Mark,
I had to repair a fuel leak in my TR-1 and I decided to cut an access hole
in the top of the wing and then patched it just like fabricating a access
panel. This would allow you to reinforce the repair of the bottom of the
tank and even recoat with epoxy or other tank sealer. The patch on the top
has very little head pressure compared to the bottom, when the tank is full.
Tim
_____
From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Reed
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body
airbox?
Mark,
Looks like you had a great trip, wish I had been there, looks great.
Regarding the fuel tank....Good luck with that. I have NO idea how to fix
except sand and try to recoat with Jeffcoat or something. The flaking looks
really bad and I wonder if the second bay is as bad. Makes me want to scope
out mine before I go any further.
The flap hinge doesn't look too bad from the photo but may need replacement
if binding.
The hole in the wing looks like a reverse construction process. Layup two
or three ply flat sheet of fiberglass with peel ply on one side to make good
bonding surface. Fit the sheet to the inside of the wing hole and bond all
the way around. Fill in the middle with foam and bond to the inside skin.
Finally, glass over the outside and flair into existing skin. The result
should be just as strong as the original skin if not a bit more so.
Sounds so easy doesn't it? The devil is always in the details though.
I am having to do much the same operation on the cowling trying to fabricate
an air scoop. It sure looks funny in the intermediate stages but I am
hopeful the final result won't look quite so odd. It would have looked a
lot better if I has used the same color foam. I will try to get back to it
this weekend and start the shaping with a rasp and sandpaper. I figure it
will take a couple of weekends to shape it, fill it, shape it some more,
fill it some more, and then start the glass work. Followed by more sanding,
filling, and repeat until sick of it. The foam I am using can easily be
shaped, filled with epoxy micro mix for a bondable surface and then be
dissolved with Acetone when finished. It won't look pretty on the inside
but I can live with that. I am doing it all in place to make sure the air
inlet is properly positioned for the air box attachment.
It is hard to see from the photos but the underside is a flat sheet of 4-ply
fiberglass that I fabricated for some other parts that I cut to form the
bottom of the scoop and cowling. I used pop rivets and bonded (belt and
suspenders) it to the existing cowling bottom. When it took the rounded
shape it carried it forward to help flair into the existing contours. I
will post additional photos of the process and the completed cowling. (BUT
ONLY IF IT COMES OUT LOOKING RIGHT)
Bob Reed
Making slow but steady progress.
From: mark_trickel <marktrickel@gmail.com>S
Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2013 10:26 AM
Subject: KIS-List: Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body
airbox?
Hello Robert,
I just return from a wilderness canoe camping trip in New York's Adirondack
Park to find you have overcome yet another problem. I like your idea of
ducting cabin heat off the airbox intake. I also know how hard it is to work
in extreme heat and humidity conditions. My dad and I rebuilt an Ercoupe and
when we brought it back to the hanger to finish it off over a couple of
summers the heat inside the back tar coated roof was unbearable no matter
how early we arrived to work on the airplane. I hope I have as good as
results as you when it comes to solving some of my dilemmas. I have attached
a few pics of a couple of things I need to address:
Underside of wing-the scrap on the right is from the time Ken ran over the
runway light at Oshkosh. The scrap on the left from the hole in the tank is
from Kens last flight when he hit a fence post, maybe a result of the tail
being cut off. The way hole is cut in is a lesson on how not to prepare to
patch a laminated composite structure.
Flap hinge-as the airplane rolled over the fence post it caught on the flap
hinge and bent it. The wing came to rest on the post about a foot out board
on the flap. That gouge has been patched.
Inside the slosh tank-Ken took a different tack on the fuel tanks, they do
not have to standard flapper system to close the tank, it has some kind of
metal ball in a track that seals off the tank. He also did not coat the tank
with the prescribed two coats of resin he used a slosh compound. A cool idea
but after 20 years it is peeling of in areas like the tank filler and bottom
fuel tester drain where the resin is real smooth from gluing in these parts.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406238#406238
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/bog_river_to_lows_lake_173.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/km3_slosh_tank_599.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/km3_flap_hinge_123.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/km3_wing_392.jpg
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body airbox? |
Bob,
I'm sure that will be an efficient air scoop but the front of your plane is
beginning to resemble a locomotive rather than a streamlined airplane.
Couldn't the scoop be curved upward and follow the the cowling shape
somewhat? Just a thought from a retired industrial designer.
Al
On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote:
> Mark,
>
> Looks like you had a great trip, wish I had been there, looks great.
>
> Regarding the fuel tank....Good luck with that. I have NO idea how to fix
> except sand and try to recoat with Jeffcoat or something. The flaking
> looks really bad and I wonder if the second bay is as bad. Makes me want
> to scope out mine before I go any further.
>
> The flap hinge doesn't look too bad from the photo but may need
> replacement if binding.
>
> The hole in the wing looks like a reverse construction process. Layup two
> or three ply flat sheet of fiberglass with peel ply on one side to make
> good bonding surface. Fit the sheet to the inside of the wing hole and
> bond all the way around. Fill in the middle with foam and bond to the
> inside skin. Finally, glass over the outside and flair into existing
> skin. The result should be just as strong as the original skin if not a
> bit more so.
>
> Sounds so easy doesn't it? The devil is always in the details though.
>
> I am having to do much the same operation on the cowling trying to
> fabricate an air scoop. It sure looks funny in the intermediate stages but
> I am hopeful the final result won't look quite so odd. It would have
> looked a lot better if I has used the same color foam. I will try to get
> back to it this weekend and start the shaping with a rasp and sandpaper. I
> figure it will take a couple of weekends to shape it, fill it, shape it
> some more, fill it some more, and then start the glass work. Followed
> by more sanding, filling, and repeat until sick of it. The foam I am using
> can easily be shaped, filled with epoxy micro mix for a bondable surface
> and then be dissolved with Acetone when finished. It won't look pretty on
> the inside but I can live with that. I am doing it all in place to make
> sure the air inlet is properly positioned for the air box attachment.
>
> It is hard to see from the photos but the underside is a flat sheet of
> 4-ply fiberglass that I fabricated for some other parts that I cut to form
> the bottom of the scoop and cowling. I used pop rivets and bonded (belt
> and suspenders) it to the existing cowling bottom. When it took the
> rounded shape it carried it forward to help flair into the
> existing contours. I will post additional photos of the process and the
> completed cowling. (BUT ONLY IF IT COMES OUT LOOKING RIGHT)
>
> Bob Reed
> Making slow but steady progress.
>
>
> *From:* mark_trickel <marktrickel@gmail.com>S
> *To:* kis-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 8, 2013 10:26 AM
> *Subject:* KIS-List: Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body
> airbox?
>
>
> Hello Robert,
>
> I just return from a wilderness canoe camping trip in New York's
> Adirondack Park to find you have overcome yet another problem. I like your
> idea of ducting cabin heat off the airbox intake. I also know how hard it
> is to work in extreme heat and humidity conditions. My dad and I rebuilt an
> Ercoupe and when we brought it back to the hanger to finish it off over a
> couple of summers the heat inside the back tar coated roof was unbearable
> no matter how early we arrived to work on the airplane. I hope I have as
> good as results as you when it comes to solving some of my dilemmas. I have
> attached a few pics of a couple of things I need to address:
>
> Underside of wing-the scrap on the right is from the time Ken ran over the
> runway light at Oshkosh. The scrap on the left from the hole in the tank is
> from Kens last flight when he hit a fence post, maybe a result of the tail
> being cut off. The way hole is cut in is a lesson on how not to prepare to
> patch a laminated composite structure.
>
> Flap hinge-as the airplane rolled over the fence post it caught on the
> flap hinge and bent it. The wing came to rest on the post about a foot out
> board on the flap. That gouge has been patched.
>
> Inside the slosh tank-Ken took a different tack on the fuel tanks, they do
> not have to standard flapper system to close the tank, it has some kind of
> metal ball in a track that seals off the tank. He also did not coat the
> tank with the prescribed two coats of resin he used a slosh compound. A
> cool idea but after 20 years it is peeling of in areas like the tank filler
> and bottom fuel tester drain where the resin is real smooth from gluing in
> these parts.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406238#406238
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/bog_river_to_lows_lake_173.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/km3_slosh_tank_599.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/km3_flap_hinge_123.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/km3_wing_392.jpg
>
>
> **
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body airbox? |
Hello Mark,
I would remove the old inboard flap hinge and replace it with a length of piano
hinge just like the other two hinges. You may need to add plies just like is
done for the other two hinges. This is actually stronger.
For the fuel tanks, one method to consider is to make or have made metal tanks.
One method of this is to use tube tanks. A tube 5" dia by 9 feet long will
be about 9 gallons. You can install one in front of the spar and one just behind
for a total of 18 gal/side. These can be interconnected at both ends so they
are in effect one tank. If you can find 0.065 wall then each tank will be
about 11 lbs. Not a trivial amount of added weight but they will not leak and
you can use auto fuel with alcohol. To install use a 5" hole saw and a very
long extension.
Mark Kettering
-----Original Message-----
>From: mark_trickel <marktrickel@gmail.com>
>Sent: Aug 8, 2013 11:26 AM
>To: kis-list@matronics.com
>Subject: KIS-List: Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body airbox?
>
>
>Hello Robert,
>
>I just return from a wilderness canoe camping trip in New York's Adirondack Park
to find you have overcome yet another problem. I like your idea of ducting
cabin heat off the airbox intake. I also know how hard it is to work in extreme
heat and humidity conditions. My dad and I rebuilt an Ercoupe and when we brought
it back to the hanger to finish it off over a couple of summers the heat
inside the back tar coated roof was unbearable no matter how early we arrived
to work on the airplane. I hope I have as good as results as you when it comes
to solving some of my dilemmas. I have attached a few pics of a couple of things
I need to address:
>
>Underside of wing-the scrap on the right is from the time Ken ran over the runway
light at Oshkosh. The scrap on the left from the hole in the tank is from
Kens last flight when he hit a fence post, maybe a result of the tail being cut
off. The way hole is cut in is a lesson on how not to prepare to patch a laminated
composite structure.
>
>Flap hinge-as the airplane rolled over the fence post it caught on the flap hinge
and bent it. The wing came to rest on the post about a foot out board on the
flap. That gouge has been patched.
>
>Inside the slosh tank-Ken took a different tack on the fuel tanks, they do not
have to standard flapper system to close the tank, it has some kind of metal
ball in a track that seals off the tank. He also did not coat the tank with the
prescribed two coats of resin he used a slosh compound. A cool idea but after
20 years it is peeling of in areas like the tank filler and bottom fuel tester
drain where the resin is real smooth from gluing in these parts.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406238#406238
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/bog_river_to_lows_lake_173.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/km3_slosh_tank_599.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/km3_flap_hinge_123.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/km3_wing_392.jpg
>
>
Message 7
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|
Subject: | Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body airbox? |
Al,=0A-=0AThe air box ended up an inch below the bottom of the cowling be
fore I started with the connection-to the scoop.- I was able to bring t
hat up a little and keep the bottom aligned with the bottom of the cowling.
- The air inlet-extended the connection forward even further below the
original cowling shape.- The current layup gives me some wiggle room to s
hape it and cut it back some but my main goal was to keep the smooth flow.
- What you see right now is a lot of extra foam that will be cut away as
the shape is developed.- The attached photo shows the basic shape that I
am going for and that will transition into the existing cowling-shape as
much as possible.- =0A-=0APlease let me finish it before you start labe
ling it a steam locomotive.=0A-=0ABOB=0A =0A=0A__________________________
______=0A From: Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com>=0ATo: kisbuilders <kis-li
st@matronics.com> =0ASent: Thursday, August 8, 2013 1:40 PM=0ASubject: Re:
KIS-List: Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body airbox?=0A
=0A=0A=0ABob,=0AI'm sure that will be an efficient air scoop but the front
of your plane is beginning to resemble a locomotive rather than a streamlin
ed airplane. -Couldn't the scoop be curved upward and follow the the cowl
ing shape somewhat? -Just a thought from a retired industrial designer.
=0A=0AAl-=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Robert Reed <robert
r237@att.net> wrote:=0A=0AMark,=0A>- =0A>Looks like you had a great trip,
wish I had been there, looks great.=0A>-=0A>Regarding the fuel tank....G
ood luck with that.- I have NO idea how to fix except sand and try to rec
oat with Jeffcoat or something.- The flaking looks really bad and I wonde
r if the second bay is as bad.- Makes me want to scope out mine before I
go any further. =0A>-=0A>The flap hinge doesn't look too bad from the pho
to but may need replacement if binding.=0A>-=0A>The hole in the wing look
s like a reverse construction process.- Layup two or three ply flat sheet
of fiberglass with peel ply on one side to make good bonding surface.- F
it the sheet to the inside of the wing hole and bond all the way around.-
Fill in the middle with foam and bond to the inside skin.- Finally, glas
s over the outside-and flair into existing skin.- The result should be
just as strong as the original skin if not a bit more so. =0A>=0A>Sounds so
easy doesn't it?- The devil is always in the details though.- =0A>=0A>
I am having to do much the same operation on the cowling trying to fabricat
e an air scoop.- It sure looks funny in the intermediate stages but I am
hopeful the final result won't look quite so odd.- It would have looked a
lot better if I has used the same color foam.- I will try to get back to
it this weekend-and start the shaping with a rasp and sandpaper.- I fi
gure it will take a couple of weekends to shape it, fill it, shape it some
more, fill it some more, and then start the glass work.--Followed by-
more sanding, filling, and repeat until sick of it.- The foam I am using
can-easily be shaped, filled with epoxy micro mix for a bondable surface
and then-be dissolved with Acetone when finished.- It won't look pretty
on the inside but I can live with that.- I am doing it all in place to m
ake sure the air inlet is properly positioned for the air box attachment.
=0A>=0A>It is hard to see from the photos but the underside is a flat sheet
of 4-ply fiberglass that I fabricated for some other parts that I cut to f
orm the bottom of the scoop and cowling.- I used pop rivets and bonded-
(belt and suspenders) it to the existing cowling bottom.- When it took t
he rounded shape it carried it forward to help flair into the existing-co
ntours.- I will post additional photos of the process and the completed
-cowling.- (BUT ONLY IF IT COMES OUT LOOKING RIGHT)=0A>=0A>Bob Reed=0A>
Making slow but steady progress.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> From: mark_trickel <ma
rktrickel@gmail.com>S=0A>To: kis-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Thursday, Aug
ust 8, 2013 10:26 AM=0A>Subject: KIS-List: Re: How long does it take to bui
rk_trickel" <marktrickel@gmail.com>=0A>=0A>Hello Robert,=0A>=0A>I just retu
rn from a wilderness canoe camping trip in New York's Adirondack Park to fi
nd you have overcome yet another problem. I like your idea of ducting cabin
heat off the airbox intake. I also know how hard it is to work in extreme
heat and humidity conditions. My dad and I rebuilt an Ercoupe and when we b
rought it back to the hanger to finish it off over a couple of summers the
heat inside the back tar coated roof was unbearable no matter how early we
arrived to work on the airplane. I hope I have as good as results as you wh
en it comes to solving some of my dilemmas. I have attached a few pics of a
couple of things I need to address:=0A>=0A>Underside of wing-the scrap on
the right is from the time Ken ran over the runway light at Oshkosh. The sc
rap on the left=0A from the hole in the tank is from Kens last flight when
he hit a fence post, maybe a result of the tail being cut off. The way hole
is cut in is a lesson on how not to prepare to patch a laminated composite
structure.=0A>=0A>Flap hinge-as the airplane rolled over the fence post it
caught on the flap hinge and bent it. The wing came to rest on the post ab
out a foot out board on the flap. That gouge has been patched.=0A>=0A>Insid
e the slosh tank-Ken took a different tack on the fuel tanks, they do not h
ave to standard flapper system to close the tank, it has some kind of metal
ball in a track that seals off the tank. He also did not coat the tank wit
h the prescribed two coats of resin he used a slosh compound. A cool idea b
ut after 20 years it is peeling of in areas like the tank filler and bottom
fuel tester drain where the resin is real smooth from gluing in these part
s.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Read this topic online=0A here:=0A>=0A>http://forums.
matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406238#406238=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Attachment
s: =0A>=0A>http://forums.matronics.com//files/bog_river_to_lows_lake_173.jp
g=0A>http://forums.matronics.com//files/km3_slosh_tank_599.jpg=0A>http://fo
rums.matronics.com//files/km3_flap_hinge_123.jpg=0A>http://forums.matronics
.com//files/km3_wing_392.jpg=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A =0A
===========
Message 8
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|
Subject: | Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body airbox? |
Hi Mark,
I have all piano hinges on my flaps and no problems. I also run about 35 degrees
of flap.
If you go with the jeffco fuel sealer then Lancair has by far the best price as
of a couple months ago.
Larry out in CA had the same problem with the sealer pealing off on this airplane.
He used a 6 inch hole saw to access the tanks.
Scott
On Aug 8, 2013, at 10:26 AM, "mark_trickel" <marktrickel@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Robert,
>
> I just return from a wilderness canoe camping trip in New York's Adirondack Park
to find you have overcome yet another problem. I like your idea of ducting
cabin heat off the airbox intake. I also know how hard it is to work in extreme
heat and humidity conditions. My dad and I rebuilt an Ercoupe and when we brought
it back to the hanger to finish it off over a couple of summers the heat
inside the back tar coated roof was unbearable no matter how early we arrived
to work on the airplane. I hope I have as good as results as you when it comes
to solving some of my dilemmas. I have attached a few pics of a couple of things
I need to address:
>
> Underside of wing-the scrap on the right is from the time Ken ran over the runway
light at Oshkosh. The scrap on the left from the hole in the tank is from
Kens last flight when he hit a fence post, maybe a result of the tail being cut
off. The way hole is cut in is a lesson on how not to prepare to patch a laminated
composite structure.
>
> Flap hinge-as the airplane rolled over the fence post it caught on the flap hinge
and bent it. The wing came to rest on the post about a foot out board on
the flap. That gouge has been patched.
>
> Inside the slosh tank-Ken took a different tack on the fuel tanks, they do not
have to standard flapper system to close the tank, it has some kind of metal
ball in a track that seals off the tank. He also did not coat the tank with the
prescribed two coats of resin he used a slosh compound. A cool idea but after
20 years it is peeling of in areas like the tank filler and bottom fuel tester
drain where the resin is real smooth from gluing in these parts.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406238#406238
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/bog_river_to_lows_lake_173.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/km3_slosh_tank_599.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/km3_flap_hinge_123.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/km3_wing_392.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
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LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
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|
Subject: | Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body airbox? |
I used the airbox, air scoop, and baffle kit from vans on my airplane. I ha
d to modify them in places and graft the scoop onto the existing cowl, but i
t was a great starting point. The baffle kit saves tons of time.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?ident=1376017121-472-6&brows
e=engines
Why is the throttle body so long? mine is half that long...
Scott
On Aug 8, 2013, at 3:20 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote:
> Al,
>
> The air box ended up an inch below the bottom of the cowling before I star
ted with the connection to the scoop. I was able to bring that up a little a
nd keep the bottom aligned with the bottom of the cowling. The air inlet ex
tended the connection forward even further below the original cowling shape.
The current layup gives me some wiggle room to shape it and cut it back so
me but my main goal was to keep the smooth flow. What you see right now is a
lot of extra foam that will be cut away as the shape is developed. The att
ached photo shows the basic shape that I am going for and that will transiti
on into the existing cowling shape as much as possible.
>
> Please let me finish it before you start labeling it a steam locomotive.
>
> BOB
>
> From: Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com>
> To: kisbuilders <kis-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2013 1:40 PM
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body
airbox?
>
> Bob,
> I'm sure that will be an efficient air scoop but the front of your plane i
s beginning to resemble a locomotive rather than a streamlined airplane. Co
uldn't the scoop be curved upward and follow the the cowling shape somewhat?
Just a thought from a retired industrial designer.
>
> Al
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote:
> Mark,
>
> Looks like you had a great trip, wish I had been there, looks great.
>
> Regarding the fuel tank....Good luck with that. I have NO idea how to fix
except sand and try to recoat with Jeffcoat or something. The flaking look
s really bad and I wonder if the second bay is as bad. Makes me want to sco
pe out mine before I go any further.
>
> The flap hinge doesn't look too bad from the photo but may need replacemen
t if binding.
>
> The hole in the wing looks like a reverse construction process. Layup two
or three ply flat sheet of fiberglass with peel ply on one side to make goo
d bonding surface. Fit the sheet to the inside of the wing hole and bond al
l the way around. Fill in the middle with foam and bond to the inside skin.
Finally, glass over the outside and flair into existing skin. The result s
hould be just as strong as the original skin if not a bit more so.
>
> Sounds so easy doesn't it? The devil is always in the details though.
>
> I am having to do much the same operation on the cowling trying to fabrica
te an air scoop. It sure looks funny in the intermediate stages but I am ho
peful the final result won't look quite so odd. It would have looked a lot b
etter if I has used the same color foam. I will try to get back to it this w
eekend and start the shaping with a rasp and sandpaper. I figure it will ta
ke a couple of weekends to shape it, fill it, shape it some more, fill it so
me more, and then start the glass work. Followed by more sanding, filling, a
nd repeat until sick of it. The foam I am using can easily be shaped, fille
d with epoxy micro mix for a bondable surface and then be dissolved with Ace
tone when finished. It won't look pretty on the inside but I can live with t
hat. I am doing it all in place to make sure the air inlet is properly posi
tioned for the air box attachment.
>
> It is hard to see from the photos but the underside is a flat sheet of 4-p
ly fiberglass that I fabricated for some other parts that I cut to form the b
ottom of the scoop and cowling. I used pop rivets and bonded (belt and sus
penders) it to the existing cowling bottom. When it took the rounded shape i
t carried it forward to help flair into the existing contours. I will post a
dditional photos of the process and the completed cowling. (BUT ONLY IF IT C
OMES OUT LOOKING RIGHT)
>
> Bob Reed
> Making slow but steady progress.
>
>
>
>
> From: mark_trickel <marktrickel@gmail.com>S
> To: kis-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2013 10:26 AM
> Subject: KIS-List: Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body air
box?
>
>
> Hello Robert,
>
> I just return from a wilderness canoe camping trip in New York's Adirondac
k Park to find you have overcome yet another problem. I like your idea of du
cting cabin heat off the airbox intake. I also know how hard it is to work i
n extreme heat and humidity conditions. My dad and I rebuilt an Ercoupe and w
hen we brought it back to the hanger to finish it off over a couple of summe
rs the heat inside the back tar coated roof was unbearable no matter how ear
ly we arrived to work on the airplane. I hope I have as good as results as y
ou when it comes to solving some of my dilemmas. I have attached a few pics o
f a couple of things I need to address:
>
> Underside of wing-the scrap on the right is from the time Ken ran over the
runway light at Oshkosh. The scrap on the left from the hole in the tank is
from Kens last flight when he hit a fence post, maybe a result of the tail b
eing cut off. The way hole is cut in is a lesson on how not to prepare to pa
tch a laminated composite structure.
>
> Flap hinge-as the airplane rolled over the fence post it caught on the fla
p hinge and bent it. The wing came to rest on the post about a foot out boar
d on the flap. That gouge has been patched.
>
> Inside the slosh tank-Ken took a different tack on the fuel tanks, they do
not have to standard flapper system to close the tank, it has some kind of m
etal ball in a track that seals off the tank. He also did not coat the tank w
ith the prescribed two coats of resin he used a slosh compound. A cool idea b
ut after 20 years it is peeling of in areas like the tank filler and bottom f
uel tester drain where the resin is real smooth from gluing in these parts.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406238#406238
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/bog_river_to_lows_lake_173.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/km3_slosh_tank_599.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/km3_flap_hinge_123.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/km3_wing_392.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contri===============
>
>
>
> <ESMSPITF-89F-47.jpg>
Message 10
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|
Subject: | Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body airbox? |
Scott,=0A-=0AThe throttle body is just an air control unit which in my mi
nd should be shorter but the dual sensors for manifold pressure and tempera
ture required for the FADEC system take up a large portion of the height.
- The blue tape is covering the mounts for the censors in the photo.- T
hey also protrude out several inches from the throttle body not including t
he wiring.- I looked at the filtered air box from Vans.- Another builde
r on the field has one and I looked at the measurements and they would have
required me to also cut the bottom out of the cowling.- I might have bee
n able to use the Vans scoop but it would have required almost as much surg
ery on the cowling.- The main difference though is going to come down to
cost.- When I am done the total cost for the air box, scoop, and modifica
tions will be about $75 vs several hundred for any other option.- Cost in
time should be about the same overall.=0A-=0AI did get the baffle kit fr
om Vans and you are right, it was a great starting point and saved consider
able time.- I used it to create a pressure cowling shown in the photo.-
Used piano hinges to provide quick easy access.- My concern living in Te
xas is getting maximum cooling to the engine which is why I am using a pres
sure cowling along with vents-on the side of the cowling.- I am still c
oncerned about getting enough air through the engine with the use of 4 into
1 exhaust.- I am a bit concerned the exhaust system will block the air f
rom the rear of the cowling.- I am hoping I will have enough air flow.=0A
-=0ABob=0A-=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Scott St
earns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>=0ATo: "kis-list@matronics.com" <kis-list@matron
ics.com> =0ASent: Thursday, August 8, 2013 10:02 PM=0ASubject: Re: KIS-List
: Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body airbox?=0A =0A=0A=0A
I used the airbox, air scoop, and baffle kit from vans on my airplane. -I
had to modify them in places and graft the scoop onto the existing cowl, b
ut it was a great starting point. -The baffle kit saves tons of time.=0A
=0Ahttp://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?ident=1376017121-472-6&b
rowse=engines=0A=0AWhy is the throttle body so long? -mine is half that
long...=0A=0AScott=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Aug 8, 2013, at 3:20 PM, Robert Reed <
robertr237@att.net> wrote:=0A=0A=0AAl,=0A>-=0A>The air box ended up an in
ch below the bottom of the cowling before I started with the connection-t
o the scoop.- I was able to bring that up a little and keep the bottom al
igned with the bottom of the cowling.- The air inlet-extended the conne
ction forward even further below the original cowling shape.- The current
layup gives me some wiggle room to shape it and cut it back some but my ma
in goal was to keep the smooth flow.- What you see right now is a lot of
extra foam that will be cut away as the shape is developed.- The attached
photo shows the basic shape that I am going for and that will transition i
nto the existing cowling-shape as much as possible.- =0A>-=0A>Please
let me finish it before you start labeling it a steam locomotive.=0A>-=0A
>BOB=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>________________________________=0A> From: Alfred Rosa
<fredorosa@gmail.com>=0A>To: kisbuilders <kis-list@matronics.com> =0A>Sent
: Thursday, August 8, 2013 1:40 PM=0A>Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: How long d
oes it take to build an throttle body airbox?=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>Bob,=0A>I'm
sure that will be an efficient air scoop but the front of your plane is beg
inning to resemble a locomotive rather than a streamlined airplane. -Coul
dn't the scoop be curved upward and follow the the cowling shape somewhat?
-Just a thought from a retired industrial designer. =0A>=0A>=0A>Al-=0A>
=0A>=0A>=0A>On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.ne
t> wrote:=0A>=0A>Mark,=0A>>- =0A>>Looks like you had a great trip, wish I
had been there, looks great.=0A>>-=0A>>Regarding the fuel tank....Good l
uck with that.- I have NO idea how to fix except sand and try to recoat w
ith Jeffcoat or something.- The flaking looks really bad and I wonder if
the second bay is as bad.- Makes me want to scope out mine before I go an
y further. =0A>>-=0A>>The flap hinge doesn't look too bad from the photo
but may need replacement if binding.=0A>>-=0A>>The hole in the wing looks
like a reverse construction process.- Layup two or three ply flat sheet
of fiberglass with peel ply on one side to make good bonding surface.- Fi
t the sheet to the inside of the wing hole and bond all the way around.-
Fill in the middle with foam and bond to the inside skin.- Finally, glass
over the outside-and flair into existing skin.- The result should be j
ust as strong as the original skin if not a bit more so. =0A>>=0A>>Sounds s
o easy doesn't it?- The devil is always in the details though.- =0A>>
=0A>>I am having to do much the same operation on the cowling trying to fab
ricate an air scoop.- It sure looks funny in the intermediate stages but
I am hopeful the final result won't look quite so odd.- It would have loo
ked a lot better if I has used the same color foam.- I will try to get ba
ck to it this weekend-and start the shaping with a rasp and sandpaper.-
I figure it will take a couple of weekends to shape it, fill it, shape it
some more, fill it some more, and then start the glass work.--Followed
by-more sanding, filling, and repeat until sick of it.- The foam I am u
sing can-easily be shaped, filled with epoxy micro mix for a bondable sur
face and then-be dissolved with Acetone when finished.- It won't look p
retty on the inside but I can live with that.- I am doing it all in place
to make sure the air inlet is properly positioned for the air box attachme
nt. =0A>>=0A>>It is hard to see from the photos but the underside is a flat
sheet of 4-ply fiberglass that I fabricated for some other parts that I cu
t to form the bottom of the scoop and cowling.- I used pop rivets and bon
ded- (belt and suspenders) it to the existing cowling bottom.- When it
took the rounded shape it carried it forward to help flair into the existin
g-contours.- I will post additional photos of the process and the compl
eted-cowling.- (BUT ONLY IF IT COMES OUT LOOKING RIGHT)=0A>>=0A>>Bob Re
ed=0A>>Making slow but steady progress.=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>> From: mark
_trickel <marktrickel@gmail.com>S=0A>>To: kis-list@matronics.com =0A>>Sent:
Thursday, August 8, 2013 10:26 AM=0A>>Subject: KIS-List: Re: How long does
it take to build an throttle body airbox?=0A>> =0A>>=0A>>--> KIS-List mess
age posted by: "mark_trickel" <marktrickel@gmail.com>=0A>>=0A>>Hello Robert
,=0A>>=0A>>I just return from a wilderness canoe camping trip in New York's
Adirondack Park to find you have overcome yet another problem. I like your
idea of ducting cabin heat off the airbox intake. I also know how hard it
is to work in extreme heat and humidity conditions. My dad and I rebuilt an
Ercoupe and when we brought it back to the hanger to finish it off over a
couple of summers the heat inside the back tar coated roof was unbearable n
o matter how early we arrived to work on the airplane. I hope I have as goo
d as results as you when it comes to solving some of my dilemmas. I have at
tached a few pics of a couple of things I need to address:=0A>>=0A>>Undersi
de of wing-the scrap on the right is from the time Ken ran over the runway
light at Oshkosh. The scrap on the left=0A from the hole in the tank is fro
m Kens last flight when he hit a fence post, maybe a result of the tail bei
ng cut off. The way hole is cut in is a lesson on how not to prepare to pat
ch a laminated composite structure.=0A>>=0A>>Flap hinge-as the airplane rol
led over the fence post it caught on the flap hinge and bent it. The wing c
ame to rest on the post about a foot out board on the flap. That gouge has
been patched.=0A>>=0A>>Inside the slosh tank-Ken took a different tack on t
he fuel tanks, they do not have to standard flapper system to close the tan
k, it has some kind of metal ball in a track that seals off the tank. He al
so did not coat the tank with the prescribed two coats of resin he used a s
losh compound. A cool idea but after 20 years it is peeling of in areas lik
e the tank filler and bottom fuel tester drain where the resin is real smoo
th from gluing in these parts.=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Read this topic onli
ne=0A here:=0A>>=0A>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406238#4
06238=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Attachments: =0A>>=0A>>http://forums.matronic
s.com//files/bog_river_to_lows_lake_173.jpg=0A>>http://forums.matronics.com
//files/km3_slosh_tank_599.jpg=0A>>http://forums.matronics.com//files/km3_f
lap_hinge_123.jpg=0A>>http://forums.matronics.com//files/km3_wing_392.jpg
=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>> =0A> =0A>http://www.matron
ics.com/contri=============== =0A>=0A> =0A<
===================
Message 11
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
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|
Subject: | Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body airbox? |
Hi Bob,
I forgot you had the FADEC engine. I had major cooling problems with my 360
in the TR-1. I have the 4 into 1 tuned exhaust and it does take up a big c
hunk of the exit area. I opened up the inlets and exit by 50% and went from
a 6 row to a 10 row oil cooler. Cooling is good now but it was a long road
. If your engine is set up to spray oil on the back of the pistons like mi
ne is then I would recommend the 10 row oil cooler. It just fits on the van
s baffles if you make the hole bigger.
Somewhere I saw a louvered cowl vent that was cockpit adjustable for airflow
, but now I cant find it. Have you seen anything like that?
Scott
On Aug 8, 2013, at 11:06 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote:
> Scott,
>
> The throttle body is just an air control unit which in my mind should be s
horter but the dual sensors for manifold pressure and temperature required f
or the FADEC system take up a large portion of the height. The blue tape is
covering the mounts for the censors in the photo. They also protrude out s
everal inches from the throttle body not including the wiring. I looked at t
he filtered air box from Vans. Another builder on the field has one and I l
ooked at the measurements and they would have required me to also cut the bo
ttom out of the cowling. I might have been able to use the Vans scoop but i
t would have required almost as much surgery on the cowling. The main diffe
rence though is going to come down to cost. When I am done the total cost f
or the air box, scoop, and modifications will be about $75 vs several hundre
d for any other option. Cost in time should be about the same overall.
>
> I did get the baffle kit from Vans and you are right, it was a great start
ing point and saved considerable time. I used it to create a pressure cowli
ng shown in the photo. Used piano hinges to provide quick easy access. My c
oncern living in Texas is getting maximum cooling to the engine which is why
I am using a pressure cowling along with vents on the side of the cowling.
I am still concerned about getting enough air through the engine with the u
se of 4 into 1 exhaust. I am a bit concerned the exhaust system will block t
he air from the rear of the cowling. I am hoping I will have enough air flo
w.
>
> Bob
>
>
> From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
> To: "kis-list@matronics.com" <kis-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2013 10:02 PM
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body
airbox?
>
> I used the airbox, air scoop, and baffle kit from vans on my airplane. I h
ad to modify them in places and graft the scoop onto the existing cowl, but i
t was a great starting point. The baffle kit saves tons of time.
>
> http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?ident=1376017121-472-6&bro
wse=engines
>
> Why is the throttle body so long? mine is half that long...
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> On Aug 8, 2013, at 3:20 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote:
>
>> Al,
>>
>> The air box ended up an inch below the bottom of the cowling before I sta
rted with the connection to the scoop. I was able to bring that up a little
and keep the bottom aligned with the bottom of the cowling. The air inlet e
xtended the connection forward even further below the original cowling shape
. The current layup gives me some wiggle room to shape it and cut it back s
ome but my main goal was to keep the smooth flow. What you see right now is
a lot of extra foam that will be cut away as the shape is developed. The a
ttached photo shows the basic shape that I am going for and that will transi
tion into the existing cowling shape as much as possible.
>>
>> Please let me finish it before you start labeling it a steam locomotive.
>>
>> BOB
>>
>> From: Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com>
>> To: kisbuilders <kis-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2013 1:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: How long does it take to build an throttle bod
y airbox?
>>
>> Bob,
>> I'm sure that will be an efficient air scoop but the front of your plane i
s beginning to resemble a locomotive rather than a streamlined airplane. Co
uldn't the scoop be curved upward and follow the the cowling shape somewhat?
Just a thought from a retired industrial designer.
>>
>> Al
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote:
>> Mark,
>>
>> Looks like you had a great trip, wish I had been there, looks great.
>>
>> Regarding the fuel tank....Good luck with that. I have NO idea how to fi
x except sand and try to recoat with Jeffcoat or something. The flaking loo
ks really bad and I wonder if the second bay is as bad. Makes me want to sc
ope out mine before I go any further.
>>
>> The flap hinge doesn't look too bad from the photo but may need replaceme
nt if binding.
>>
>> The hole in the wing looks like a reverse construction process. Layup tw
o or three ply flat sheet of fiberglass with peel ply on one side to make go
od bonding surface. Fit the sheet to the inside of the wing hole and bond a
ll the way around. Fill in the middle with foam and bond to the inside skin
. Finally, glass over the outside and flair into existing skin. The result
should be just as strong as the original skin if not a bit more so.
>>
>> Sounds so easy doesn't it? The devil is always in the details though.
>>
>> I am having to do much the same operation on the cowling trying to fabric
ate an air scoop. It sure looks funny in the intermediate stages but I am h
opeful the final result won't look quite so odd. It would have looked a lot
better if I has used the same color foam. I will try to get back to it thi
s weekend and start the shaping with a rasp and sandpaper. I figure it will
take a couple of weekends to shape it, fill it, shape it some more, fill it
some more, and then start the glass work. Followed by more sanding, fillin
g, and repeat until sick of it. The foam I am using can easily be shaped, f
illed with epoxy micro mix for a bondable surface and then be dissolved with
Acetone when finished. It won't look pretty on the inside but I can live w
ith that. I am doing it all in place to make sure the air inlet is properly
positioned for the air box attachment.
>>
>> It is hard to see from the photos but the underside is a flat sheet of 4-
ply fiberglass that I fabricated for some other parts that I cut to form the
bottom of the scoop and cowling. I used pop rivets and bonded (belt and s
uspenders) it to the existing cowling bottom. When it took the rounded shap
e it carried it forward to help flair into the existing contours. I will po
st additional photos of the process and the completed cowling. (BUT ONLY IF
IT COMES OUT LOOKING RIGHT)
>>
>> Bob Reed
>> Making slow but steady progress.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: mark_trickel <marktrickel@gmail.com>S
>> To: kis-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2013 10:26 AM
>> Subject: KIS-List: Re: How long does it take to build an throttle body ai
rbox?
>>
>>
>> Hello Robert,
>>
>> I just return from a wilderness canoe camping trip in New York's Adironda
ck Park to find you have overcome yet another problem. I like your idea of d
ucting cabin heat off the airbox intake. I also know how hard it is to work i
n extreme heat and humidity conditions. My dad and I rebuilt an Ercoupe and w
hen we brought it back to the hanger to finish it off over a couple of summe
rs the heat inside the back tar coated roof was unbearable no matter how ear
ly we arrived to work on the airplane. I hope I have as good as results as y
ou when it comes to solving some of my dilemmas. I have attached a few pics o
f a couple of things I need to address:
>>
>> Underside of wing-the scrap on the right is from the time Ken ran over th
e runway light at Oshkosh. The scrap on the left from the hole in the tank i
s from Kens last flight when he hit a fence post, maybe a result of the tail
being cut off. The way hole is cut in is a lesson on how not to prepare to p
atch a laminated composite structure.
>>
>> Flap hinge-as the airplane rolled over the fence post it caught on the fl
ap hinge and bent it. The wing came to rest on the post about a foot out boa
rd on the flap. That gouge has been patched.
>>
>> Inside the slosh tank-Ken took a different tack on the fuel tanks, they d
o not have to standard flapper system to close the tank, it has some kind of
metal ball in a track that seals off the tank. He also did not coat the tan
k with the prescribed two coats of resin he used a slosh compound. A cool id
ea but after 20 years it is peeling of in areas like the tank filler and bot
tom fuel tester drain where the resin is real smooth from gluing in these pa
rts.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406238#406238
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Attachments:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/bog_river_to_lows_lake_173.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/km3_slosh_tank_599.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/km3_flap_hinge_123.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/km3_wing_392.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/contri==============
>>
>>
>>
>> <ESMSPITF-89F-47.jpg>
> http://www.matronics.c==================
>
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> <IMG_0202_Small.jpg>
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