Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:58 AM - Re: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife... (Alfred Rosa)
2. 07:06 AM - Re: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife... (Robert Reed)
3. 07:13 AM - Re: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife... (Robert Reed)
4. 07:20 AM - Re: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife... (Mark Kettering)
5. 07:51 AM - Re: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife... (Robert Reed)
6. 12:38 PM - Re: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife... (Flyinisfun@aol.com)
7. 01:06 PM - Re: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife... (Robert Reed)
8. 01:55 PM - Re: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife... (Scott Stearns)
9. 07:35 PM - KIS Cruiser Crating (fasilpereira)
10. 07:42 PM - Re: KIS Cruiser Crating (fasilpereira)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife... |
Bob,
I must be brutal- your wife was right- start over.
I dont see why the air box that came with the engine can't be adjusted to
work instead of resorting to this monstrous adaption. No offense intended.
I'm just too old to not tell it the way it is.
Al
On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 10:12 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote:
> Saturday was another hotter than hell day of work on the plane. I spent
> the morning shaping the foam down to exactly what I had planned and I
> thought it looked pretty good. I then mixed up the micro-epoxy and starte
d
> the fill in of the foam and the smoothing out of the form to the cowling.
> The fill in worked well for the first 15 or 20 minutes and then the heat
> (101 degrees) got to the epoxy and it started setting up in the cup. I
> managed to just barely finish what had to be done but had about 1/4 of th
e
> mix harden in the cup.******
> ** **
> The first photo in each of the groupings was taken following the Saturday
> session.****
> ** **
> I showed the photos to my wife that evening and she looked at all of the
> photos for several minutes, made a non-approving sound, and handed the
> iPhone back to me. Now after over 38 years of marriage I have learned to
> read her fairly well and when she doesn't like something I have done she
> never comes right out and says it "SUCKS" but I get the message just the
> same. Her response was one of those "well if you insist" it is ok but I
> would do it over. Truth was that while the results were exactly what I ha
d
> planned, they were a disappointment to me as well. My wife just reflected
> back to me what she knew I was feeling. ****
> ** **
> Sunday morning, early Sunday morning, 4:30 am on Sunday morning, I am
> awake working on the plane in my mind as I usually do when I am trying to
> work out problems. I can see every part and mentally I try everything fro
m
> tear it all out and start over to leave it as is and hope that when
> finished it will look ok. I have read several articles regarding the
> efficiency of the air inlets. One of the things I remembered was
> regarding the shape of the inside of the inlet and that the efficiency wa
s
> improved by a rolled and expanding inlet. The major issue I saw with my
> initial try was the opening just looked too oversized and needed to be
> toned down. The whole thing just looked too bulky and out of proportion.
*
> ***
> ** **
> I didn=92t want to start over. I am at the point now where unless it is
an
> issue of flight worthiness I am going to move on and NOT tear anything el
se
> down to start over. I want to get it flying! So the outcome of my 5am
> design session was to try and add some foam to the inside of the opening
> and trim down the outside to minimize the opening by a couple of inches.
I
> bonded in a couple of foam inserts to the inside of the original opening
> and then shaped them to form a very rounded transition to the inside of t
he
> scoop. I then cut down the outside of the scoop around the opening and
> rolled it back into the original shape. Mixed another batch of epoxy-mic
ro
> and filled everything in with the same problem as Saturday, almost 1/2 th
e
> batch setup before I could apply it. Can't understand, I was only 99 tod
ay.
> ****
> The second photo in each pair is the resulting design. They are still
> somewhat rough with only the epoxy-micro applied and not smoothed out yet
.
> I am much happier with the result and after showing the resulting photos
> to my wife I think I might be on fairly good ground. She liked it. The
> opening is almost 2 inches smaller in width and =BD inch in height. The
> outside shape is more rounded and aerodynamic. The changes aren=92t
> dramatic but when viewed from all angles I think it looks better. ****
> I am thinking about shaping a small bit of a fish mouth into it when
> viewed from the side but not sure how it will look. Any comments?****
> ** **
> Bob Reed****
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife... |
Jesse,=0A=C2-=0AThanks, I will give it a try this coming weekend.=C2- I
have real concerns about doing the layups with the setup time being so sho
rt and that might just give the added time I need.=C2- Part of the proble
m is that even the parts are HOT and it becomes difficult to get the epoxy
to stick and stay.=C2- =0A=C2-=0ABOB=0A =0A=0A_________________________
_______=0A From: "Flyinisfun@aol.com" <Flyinisfun@aol.com>=0ATo: kis-list@m
atronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, August 11, 2013 10:53 PM=0ASubject: Re: KIS-L
ist: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife...=0A =0A=0A=0ABob,=C2- I had the sam
e problem with epoxy and heat until I got a small =0Apan large enough and d
eep enough to handle about three large glasses of =0Aice.=C2- Put the can
s of resin and hardener in the ice, probably pour in a =0Alittle water to g
et things going.=C2- Cool down the epoxy before mixing, then =0Amix.=C2
- Have another container the size of the mixed batch and put the cup or
=0Awhatever into it.=C2- Keep the batch in the ice and mix it up there an
d use =0Aout of it as you need it.=C2- It will not flash off on you.=C2
- You can get =0Aice at McDonalds or your favorite fast foods place.=C2
- You won't need all =0Athat much ice to do the trick. =0A=0AJesse Wright
=0A=0A=0AIn a message dated 8/11/2013 8:13:11 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
=0Arobertr237@att.net writes: =0ASaturday was another hotter than hell da
y of work on the plane. I spent the morning shaping the foam down to exact
ly what I had planned and I thought it looked pretty good. I then mixed up
the micro-epoxy and started the fill in of the foam and the smoothing out
of the form to the cowling. The fill in worked well for the first 15 or 20
minutes and then the heat (101 degrees) got to the epoxy and it started
setting up in the cup. I managed to just barely finish what had to be done
but had about 1/4 of the mix harden in the cup. =0A>=C2- =0A>The first
photo in each of the groupings was taken following the Saturday session.
=0A>=C2- =0A>I showed the photos to my wife that evening and she looked
at all of the photos for several minutes, made a non-approving sound, and
handed the iPhone back to me. Now after over 38 years of marriage I have
learned to read her fairly well and when she doesn't like something I have
done she never comes right out and says it "SUCKS" but I get the message
just the same. Her response was one of those "well if you insist" it is ok
but I would do it over. Truth was that while the results were exactly wha
t I had planned, they were a disappointment to me as well. My wife just re
flected back to me what she knew I was feeling. =0A>=C2- =0A>Sunday mo
rning, early Sunday morning, 4:30 am on Sunday morning, I am awake working
on the plane in my mind as I usually do when I am trying to work out probl
ems. I can see every part and mentally I try everything from tear it all o
ut and start over to leave it as is and hope that when finished it will lo
ok ok. I have read several articles regarding the efficiency of the air in
lets.=C2- One of the things I remembered was regarding the shape of the
inside of the inlet and that the efficiency was improved by a rolled and e
xpanding inlet. =C2-The major issue I saw with my initial try was the op
ening just looked too oversized and needed to be toned down.=C2- The who
le thing just looked too bulky and out of proportion. =0A>=C2- =0A>I di
dn=99t want to start over.=C2- I am at the point now where unless
it is an issue of flight worthiness I am going to move on and NOT tear an
ything else down to start over.=C2- I want to get it flying!=C2- So the
outcome of my 5am design session was to try and add some foam to the insi
de of the opening and trim down the outside to minimize the opening by a c
ouple of inches.=C2- I bonded in a couple of foam inserts to the inside
of the original opening and then shaped them to form a very rounded transi
tion to the inside of the scoop.=C2- I then cut down the outside of the
scoop around the opening and rolled it back into the original shape.=C2-
Mixed another batch of epoxy-micro and filled everything in with the same
problem as Saturday, almost 1/2 the batch setup before I could apply it.
=C2- Can't understand, I was only 99 today. =0A>The second photo in ea
ch pair is the resulting design. =C2-They are still somewhat rough with
only the epoxy-micro applied and not smoothed out yet.=C2- I am much ha
ppier with the result and after showing the resulting photos to my wife I
think I might be on fairly good ground.=C2- She liked it. The opening i
s almost 2 inches smaller in width and =C2=BD inch in height.=C2- The out
side shape is more rounded and aerodynamic.=C2- The changes aren
=99t dramatic but when viewed from all angles I think it looks better.=C2
- =0A>I am thinking about shaping a small bit of a fish mouth into it w
hen viewed from the side but not sure how it will look.=C2- Any comment
=========================0A
=======================
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife... |
Al,=0A=C2-=0ANO air box came with the engine and the throttle body that c
ame with it was almost three inches longer than the standard so there was n
o choice.=C2- I found the smallest adaptable filtered air box I could=C2
-but it still required cutting out the bottom of the cowling and stuck ou
t to the front.=C2- I had the NACA vent installed but by the time I trimm
ed it out of the way and cut the bottom of the cowling for the air box ther
e was no way to even try and adapt it.=C2- The alternatives were to custo
m fabricate and little else.=0A=C2-=0AI am sorry YOU don't like it but to
be equally brutal, unless you are willing to come and do it yourself it wi
ll have to do.=C2- I am tired of trying to make this a perfect plane and
I just want to get it flying.=C2- =0A=C2-=0ABOB=0A =0A=0A______________
__________________=0A From: Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com>=0ATo: kisbuil
ders <kis-list@matronics.com> =0ASent: Monday, August 12, 2013 7:57 AM=0ASu
bject: Re: KIS-List: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife...=0A =0A=0A=0ABob,=0A
=0A=0AI must be brutal- your wife was right- =C2-start over. =C2-=0AI d
ont see why the air box that came with the engine can't be adjusted to work
instead of resorting to this monstrous adaption. =C2-No offense intended
. =C2-I'm just too old to not tell it the way it is. =0A=0AAl=0A=0A=0A=0A
On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 10:12 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote:
=0A=0ASaturday was another hotter than=0Ahell day of work on the plane. I s
pent the morning shaping the foam down to=0Aexactly what I had planned and
I thought it looked pretty good. I then mixed up=0Athe micro-epoxy and star
ted the fill in of the foam and the smoothing out of=0Athe form to the cowl
ing. The fill in worked well for the first 15 or 20 minutes=0Aand then the
heat (101 degrees) got to the epoxy and it started setting up in=0Athe cup.
I managed to just barely finish what had to be done but had about 1/4=0Aof
the mix harden in the cup.=0A>=C2-=0A>The=0Afirst photo in each of the g
roupings was taken following the Saturday session.=0A>=C2-=0A>I=0Ashowed
the photos to my wife that evening and she looked at all of the photos=0Afo
r several minutes, made a non-approving sound, and handed the iPhone back t
o=0Ame. Now after over 38 years of marriage I have learned to read her fair
ly well=0Aand when she doesn't like something I have done she never comes r
ight out and=0Asays it "SUCKS" but I get the message just the same. Her res
ponse was=0Aone of those "well if you insist" it is ok but I would do it ov
er.=0ATruth was that while the results were exactly what I had planned, the
y were a=0Adisappointment to me as well. My wife just reflected back to me
what she knew I=0Awas feeling. =0A>=C2-=0A>Sunday=0Amorning, early Sunday
morning, 4:30 am on Sunday morning, I am awake working on=0Athe plane in m
y mind as I usually do when I am trying to work out problems. I=0Acan see e
very part and mentally I try everything from tear it all out and start=0Aov
er to leave it as is and hope that when finished it will look ok. I have re
ad=0Aseveral articles regarding the efficiency of the air inlets.=C2- One
of the things I remembered was regarding=0Athe shape of the inside of the
inlet and that the efficiency was improved by a=0Arolled and expanding inle
t. =C2-The major=0Aissue I saw with my initial try was the opening just l
ooked too oversized and=0Aneeded to be toned down.=C2- The whole thing=0A
just looked too bulky and out of proportion.=0A>=C2-=0A>I didn=99t
want to start over.=C2- I am at the point now where unless it is an=0Aiss
ue of flight worthiness I am going to move on and NOT tear anything else=0A
down to start over.=C2- I want to get it=0Aflying!=C2- So the outcome o
f my 5am design=0Asession was to try and add some foam to the inside of the
opening and trim down=0Athe outside to minimize the opening by a couple of
inches.=C2- I bonded in a couple of foam inserts to the=0Ainside of the
original opening and then shaped them to form a very rounded=0Atransition t
o the inside of the scoop.=C2- I=0Athen cut down the outside of the scoop
around the opening and rolled it back=0Ainto the original shape.=C2- Mix
ed another batch of epoxy-micro and filled everything in with the same prob
lem as Saturday, almost 1/2 the batch setup before I could apply it.=C2-
Can't understand, I was only 99 today. =0A>The second photo in each pair is
=0Athe resulting design. =C2-They are still=0Asomewhat rough with only th
e epoxy-micro applied and not smoothed out yet.=C2- I am much happier wit
h the result and after=0Ashowing the resulting photos to my wife I think I
might be on fairly good=0Aground.=C2- She liked it. The opening is=0Aalmo
st 2 inches smaller in width and =C2=BD inch in height.=C2- The outside s
hape is more rounded and=0Aaerodynamic.=C2- The changes aren=99t dr
amatic=0Abut when viewed from all angles I think it looks better.=C2- =0A
>I am thinking about shaping a small bit of a fish mouth into=0Ait when vie
wed from the side but not sure how it will look.=C2- Any comments?=0A>=C2
===================
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife... |
Hi Bob,
It is large and maybe not in line with the local airflow but it looks good and
should work well. Kind of like a turbine inlet!
Mark K
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Reed
Sent: Aug 12, 2013 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife...
Al, NO air box came with the engine and the throttle body that came with it was
almost three inches longer than the standard so there was no choice. I found
the smallest adaptable filtered air box I could but it still required cutting
out the bottom of the cowling and stuck out to the front. I had the NACA vent
installed but by the time I trimmed it out of the way and cut the bottom of
the cowling for the air box there was no way to even try and adapt it. The alternatives
were to custom fabricate and little else. I am sorry YOU don't like
it but to be equally brutal, unless you are willing to come and do it yourself
it will have to do. I am tired of trying to make this a perfect plane
and I just want to get it flying. BOB
From: Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com>
To: kisbuilders <kis-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 7:57 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife...
Bob,
I must be brutal- your wife was right- start over. I dont see why the air box
that came with the engine can't be adjusted to work instead of resorting to this
monstrous adaption. No offense intended. I'm just too old to not tell it
the way it is.
Al
On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 10:12 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote:
Saturday was another hotter than
hell day of work on the plane. I spent the morning shaping the foam down to
exactly what I had planned and I thought it looked pretty good. I then mixed up
the micro-epoxy and started the fill in of the foam and the smoothing out of
the form to the cowling. The fill in worked well for the first 15 or 20 minutes
and then the heat (101 degrees) got to the epoxy and it started setting up in
the cup. I managed to just barely finish what had to be done but had about 1/4
of the mix harden in the cup.
The
first photo in each of the groupings was taken following the Saturday session.
I
showed the photos to my wife that evening and she looked at all of the photos
for several minutes, made a non-approving sound, and handed the iPhone back to
me. Now after over 38 years of marriage I have learned to read her fairly well
and when she doesn't like something I have done she never comes right out and
says it "SUCKS" but I get the message just the same. Her response was
one of those "well if you insist" it is ok but I would do it over.
Truth was that while the results were exactly what I had planned, they were a
disappointment to me as well. My wife just reflected back to me what she knew I
was feeling.
Sunday
morning, early Sunday morning, 4:30 am on Sunday morning, I am awake working on
the plane in my mind as I usually do when I am trying to work out problems. I
can see every part and mentally I try everything from tear it all out and start
over to leave it as is and hope that when finished it will look ok. I have read
several articles regarding the efficiency of the air inlets. One of the things
I remembered was regarding
the shape of the inside of the inlet and that the efficiency was improved by a
rolled and expanding inlet. The major
issue I saw with my initial try was the opening just looked too oversized and
needed to be toned down. The whole thing
just looked too bulky and out of proportion.
I didnt want to start over. I am at the point now where unless it is an
issue of flight worthiness I am going to move on and NOT tear anything else
down to start over. I want to get it
flying! So the outcome of my 5am design
session was to try and add some foam to the inside of the opening and trim down
the outside to minimize the opening by a couple of inches. I bonded in a couple
of foam inserts to the
inside of the original opening and then shaped them to form a very rounded
transition to the inside of the scoop. I
then cut down the outside of the scoop around the opening and rolled it back
into the original shape. Mixed another batch of epoxy-micro and filled everything
in with the same problem as Saturday, almost 1/2 the batch setup before I
could apply it. Can't understand, I was only 99 today.
The second photo in each pair is
the resulting design. They are still
somewhat rough with only the epoxy-micro applied and not smoothed out yet. I am
much happier with the result and after
showing the resulting photos to my wife I think I might be on fairly good
ground. She liked it. The opening is
almost 2 inches smaller in width and inch in height. The outside shape is more
rounded and
aerodynamic. The changes arent dramatic
but when viewed from all angles I think it looks better.
I am thinking about shaping a small bit of a fish mouth into
it when viewed from the side but not sure how it will look. Any comments?
Bob Reed
http://www.ma====================
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife... |
Mark,=0A=C2-=0AWhat I tried to do was blend the scoop into the existing c
owling as smoothly as possible using the existing profiles while providing
the needed openings.=C2- That involves a lot of different compound curves
in each part.=C2- I cut back the profile repeatedly to meet the objectiv
es while keeping the airflow as smooth as possible.=C2- Yes it is bigger
than I had wanted but that is dictated more by the required opening size an
d the knowledge that layups don't turn tight radius curves very well.=C2-
I think it will look better when smoothed out and painted but even if it d
oesn't, it will perform effectively.=0A=C2-=0AI enjoy building projects b
ut more important, I enjoy completing and using those projects.=C2- Over
the years I have built a large deck, gazebo, swimming pool, greenhouse, and
room additions onto my home.=C2- I have gutted and remodeled master bath
s and kitchens and built all the cabinets myself.=C2- Many of those proje
cts were done while I was working on this plane.=C2- All of them have bee
n FINISHED except the airplane.=C2- All of them also shared a couple of c
ommon elements... I have never finished a project that I didn't have someth
ing that I knew I could have done better but, and this is the important par
t, they were all finished and I got the pleasure of using them.=C2- That
is where I am at with this airplane, I can continue and finish it while I c
an still enjoy flying it or work on it forever and get noting out of it.=C2
- When Ted had to essentially give his airplane away because of health is
sues that prevented him from finishing and enjoying it that was the
wakeup call for me.=C2- Al has also tried to sell his project because of
age and commitment issues but found no takers without substantial loss of
investment.=C2- =0A=C2-=0AGET IT FINISHED!!!=0A=C2-=0ABob=0A =0A=0A__
______________________________=0A From: Mark Kettering <mantafs@earthlink.n
et>=0ATo: kis-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, August 12, 2013 9:20 AM
=0ASubject: Re: KIS-List: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife...=0A =0A=0A--> KI
S-List message posted by: Mark Kettering <mantafs@earthlink.net>=0A=0AHi Bo
b,=0A=0AIt is large and maybe not in line with the local airflow but it loo
ks good and should work well.=C2- Kind of like a turbine inlet!=0A=0AMark
K=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0A=0AFrom: Robert Reed =0A=0ASent: Au
g 12, 2013 10:12 AM=0A=0ATo: "kis-list@matronics.com" =0A=0ASubject: Re: KI
S-List: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife...=0A=0A=0A=0AAl, NO air box came wit
h the engine and the throttle body that came with it was almost three inche
s longer than the standard so there was no choice.=C2- I found the smalle
st adaptable filtered air box I could but it still required cutting out the
bottom of the cowling and stuck out to the front.=C2- I had the NACA ven
t installed but by the time I trimmed it out of the way and cut the bottom
of the cowling for the air box there was no way to even try and adapt it.
=C2- The alternatives were to custom fabricate and little else. I am sorr
y YOU don't like it but to be equally brutal, unless you are willing to com
e and do it yourself it will have to do.=C2- I am tired of trying to make
this a perfect plane=0Aand I just want to get it flying.=C2- BOB=0A=C2
- =C2- =C2- =C2- From: Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com>=0ATo: kisb
uilders <kis-list@matronics.com> =0ASent: Monday, August 12, 2013 7:57 AM
=0ASubject: Re: KIS-List: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife...=0A=C2- =0A=0AB
ob,=0AI must be brutal- your wife was right-=C2- start over.=C2- I dont
see why the air box that came with the engine can't be adjusted to work in
stead of resorting to this monstrous adaption.=C2- No offense intended.
=C2- I'm just too old to not tell it the way it is.=0A=0AAl=0A=0AOn Sun,
Aug 11, 2013 at 10:12 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote:=0A=0A=0A
=0ASaturday was another hotter than=0Ahell day of work on the plane. I spen
t the morning shaping the foam down to=0Aexactly what I had planned and I t
hought it looked pretty good. I then mixed up=0Athe micro-epoxy and started
the fill in of the foam and the smoothing out of=0Athe form to the cowling
. The fill in worked well for the first 15 or 20 minutes=0Aand then the hea
t (101 degrees) got to the epoxy and it started setting up in=0Athe cup. I
managed to just barely finish what had to be done but had about 1/4=0Aof th
e mix harden in the cup.=0A=0A=0A=0AThe=0Afirst photo in each of the groupi
ngs was taken following the Saturday session.=0A=0A=0A=0AI=0Ashowed the pho
tos to my wife that evening and she looked at all of the photos=0Afor sever
al minutes, made a non-approving sound, and handed the iPhone back to=0Ame.
Now after over 38 years of marriage I have learned to read her fairly well
=0Aand when she doesn't like something I have done she never comes right ou
t and=0Asays it "SUCKS" but I get the message just the same. Her response w
as=0Aone of those "well if you insist" it is ok but I would do it over.=0AT
ruth was that while the results were exactly what I had planned, they were
a=0Adisappointment to me as well. My wife just reflected back to me what sh
e knew I=0Awas feeling. =0A=0A=0A=0ASunday=0Amorning, early Sunday morning,
4:30 am on Sunday morning, I am awake working on=0Athe plane in my mind as
I usually do when I am trying to work out problems. I=0Acan see every part
and mentally I try everything from tear it all out and start=0Aover to lea
ve it as is and hope that when finished it will look ok. I have read=0Aseve
ral articles regarding the efficiency of the air inlets.=C2- One of the t
hings I remembered was regarding=0Athe shape of the inside of the inlet and
that the efficiency was improved by a=0Arolled and expanding inlet.=C2-
The major=0Aissue I saw with my initial try was the opening just looked too
oversized and=0Aneeded to be toned down.=C2- The whole thing=0Ajust look
ed too bulky and out of proportion.=0A=0A=0A=0AI didn=99t want to sta
rt over.=C2- I am at the point now where unless it is an=0Aissue of fligh
t worthiness I am going to move on and NOT tear anything else=0Adown to sta
rt over.=C2- I want to get it=0Aflying!=C2- So the outcome of my 5am de
sign=0Asession was to try and add some foam to the inside of the opening an
d trim down=0Athe outside to minimize the opening by a couple of inches.=C2
- I bonded in a couple of foam inserts to the=0Ainside of the original op
ening and then shaped them to form a very rounded=0Atransition to the insid
e of the scoop.=C2- I=0Athen cut down the outside of the scoop around the
opening and rolled it back=0Ainto the original shape.=C2- Mixed another
batch of epoxy-micro and filled everything in with the same problem as Satu
rday, almost 1/2 the batch setup before I could apply it.=C2- Can't under
stand, I was only 99 today.=0A=0A=0AThe second photo in each pair is=0Athe
resulting design.=C2- They are still=0Asomewhat rough with only the epoxy
-micro applied and not smoothed out yet.=C2- I am much happier with the r
esult and after=0Ashowing the resulting photos to my wife I think I might b
e on fairly good=0Aground.=C2- She liked it. The opening is=0Aalmost 2 in
ches smaller in width and =C2=BD inch in height.=C2- The outside shape is
more rounded and=0Aaerodynamic.=C2- The changes aren=99t dramatic
=0Abut when viewed from all angles I think it looks better.=C2- =0A=0AI a
m thinking about shaping a small bit of a fish mouth into=0Ait when viewed
from the side but not sure how it will look.=C2- Any comments?=0A=0A=0A
=0ABob Reed=0A=0A=0A=0A=0Ahttp://www.ma============
- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
=======================
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife... |
Bob,
Are you scuffing up the part you are working with. Go over it with about
100 grit. Cool down the epoxy more than to room tempt so it will cool dow
n
the part some as well. Be sure not to reuse any vessel you put ice and
epoxy cans in, for cooking or eating. Their contaminated. (Just a remind
er)
Good luck
Jesse
Jesse,
Thanks, I will give it a try this coming weekend. I have real concerns
about doing the layups with the setup time being so short and that might j
ust
give the added time I need. Part of the problem is that even the parts
are HOT and it becomes difficult to get the epoxy to stick and stay.
BOB
From: "Flyinisfun@aol.com" <Flyinisfun@aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2013 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife...
Bob, I had the same problem with epoxy and heat until I got a small pan
large enough and deep enough to handle about three large glasses of ice.
Put the cans of resin and hardener in the ice, probably pour in a little
water to get things going. Cool down the epoxy before mixing, then mix.
Have
another container the size of the mixed batch and put the cup or whatever
into it. Keep the batch in the ice and mix it up there and use out of it
as
you need it. It will not flash off on you. You can get ice at McDonalds
or your favorite fast foods place. You won't need all that much ice to do
the trick.
Jesse Wright
In a message dated 8/11/2013 8:13:11 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
robertr237@att.net writes:
Saturday was another hotter than hell day of work on the plane. I spent
the morning shaping the foam down to exactly what I had planned and I thou
ght
it looked pretty good. I then mixed up the micro-epoxy and started the
fill in of the foam and the smoothing out of the form to the cowling. The
fill
in worked well for the first 15 or 20 minutes and then the heat (101
degrees) got to the epoxy and it started setting up in the cup. I managed
to
just barely finish what had to be done but had about 1/4 of the mix harden
in
the cup.
The first photo in each of the groupings was taken following the Saturday
session.
I showed the photos to my wife that evening and she looked at all of the
photos for several minutes, made a non-approving sound, and handed the
iPhone back to me. Now after over 38 years of marriage I have learned to r
ead
her fairly well and when she doesn't like something I have done she never
comes right out and says it "SUCKS" but I get the message just the same. H
er
response was one of those "well if you insist" it is ok but I would do it
over. Truth was that while the results were exactly what I had planned, th
ey
were a disappointment to me as well. My wife just reflected back to me
what she knew I was feeling.
Sunday morning, early Sunday morning, 4:30 am on Sunday morning, I am
awake working on the plane in my mind as I usually do when I am trying to
work
out problems. I can see every part and mentally I try everything from tear
it all out and start over to leave it as is and hope that when finished it
will look ok. I have read several articles regarding the efficiency of the
air inlets. One of the things I remembered was regarding the shape of th
e
inside of the inlet and that the efficiency was improved by a rolled and
expanding inlet. The major issue I saw with my initial try was the openin
g
just looked too oversized and needed to be toned down. The whole thing
just looked too bulky and out of proportion.
I didn=99t want to start over. I am at the point now where unless
it is an
issue of flight worthiness I am going to move on and NOT tear anything
else down to start over. I want to get it flying! So the outcome of my 5
am
design session was to try and add some foam to the inside of the opening a
nd
trim down the outside to minimize the opening by a couple of inches. I
bonded in a couple of foam inserts to the inside of the original opening a
nd
then shaped them to form a very rounded transition to the inside of the
scoop. I then cut down the outside of the scoop around the opening and
rolled it back into the original shape. Mixed another batch of epoxy-micr
o and
filled everything in with the same problem as Saturday, almost 1/2 the
batch setup before I could apply it. Can't understand, I was only 99 toda
y.
The second photo in each pair is the resulting design. They are still
somewhat rough with only the epoxy-micro applied and not smoothed out yet
. I
am much happier with the result and after showing the resulting photos to
my wife I think I might be on fairly good ground. She liked it. The
opening is almost 2 inches smaller in width and =C2=BD inch in height. Th
e outside
shape is more rounded and aerodynamic. The changes aren=99t dramat
ic but when
viewed from all angles I think it looks better.
I am thinking about shaping a small bit of a fish mouth into it when
viewed from the side but not sure how it will look. Any comments?
Bob Reed
http://www.matron://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank"
rel="nofollow">http://forums.=========
Message 7
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|
| Subject: | Re: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife... |
Jesse,=0A=C2-=0AFor the mold formation I am using 80 grit to scuff the mi
cro mix after cure before applying more or applying the layups.=C2- I am
shaping using several different Perma-Grit tools.=C2- It works great for
free form molding if you don't mind getting covered in foam and dust in 100
degree heat.=C2- The problem with the last coating of micro-epoxy was pr
obably a result of too dry a mixture combined with the heat.=C2- I had so
me problems with the first application sagging so I probably over compensat
ed a little.=C2- =0A=C2-=0AThanks,=0A=C2-=0ABOB=0A =0A=0A____________
____________________=0A From: "Flyinisfun@aol.com" <Flyinisfun@aol.com>=0AT
o: kis-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, August 12, 2013 2:37 PM=0ASubjec
t: Re: KIS-List: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife...=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0ABob,
=C2- =0AAre you scuffing up the part you are working with.=C2- Go over
it with =0Aabout 100 grit.=C2- Cool down the epoxy more than to room tem
pt so it will =0Acool down the part some as well.=C2- Be sure not to reus
e any vessel you put =0Aice=C2-and epoxy cans in, for cooking or eating.
=C2- Their =0Acontaminated.=C2- (Just a reminder)=C2- Good luck =0A
=0A=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Jesse =0AJesse, =0A>=C2
- =0A>Thanks, I will give it a try this coming weekend.=C2- I have real
concerns about doing the layups with the setup time being so short and th
at might just give the added time I need.=C2- Part of the problem is tha
t even the parts are HOT and it becomes difficult to get the epoxy to stic
k and stay.=C2- =0A>=C2- =0A>BOB =0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>___________________
_____________=0A>From: "Flyinisfun@aol.com" <Flyinisfun@aol.com>=0A>To: kis
-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2013 10:53 PM=0A>Subject:
Re: KIS-List: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife...=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>Bob,=C2-
I had the same problem with epoxy and heat until I got a small pan large
enough and deep enough to handle about three large glasses of ice.=C2- P
ut the cans of resin and hardener in the ice, probably pour in a little wa
ter to get things going.=C2- Cool down the epoxy before mixing, then mix
.=C2- Have another container the size of the mixed batch and put the cup
or whatever into it.=C2- Keep the batch in the ice and mix it up there
and use out of it as you need it.=C2- It will not flash off on you.=C2-
You can get ice at McDonalds or your favorite fast foods place.=C2- You
won't need all that much ice to do the trick. =0A>=0A>Jesse Wright =0A>
=0A>=0A>In a message dated 8/11/2013 8:13:11 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
robertr237@att.net writes: =0A>Saturday was another hotter than hell day o
f work on the plane. I spent the morning shaping the foam down to exactly
what I had planned and I thought it looked pretty good. I then mixed up th
e micro-epoxy and started the fill in of the foam and the smoothing out of
the form to the cowling. The fill in worked well for the first 15 or 20 m
inutes and then the heat (101 degrees) got to the epoxy and it started set
ting up in the cup. I managed to just barely finish what had to be done bu
t had about 1/4 of the mix harden in the cup. =0A>>=C2- =0A>>The first
photo in each of the groupings was taken following the Saturday session.
=0A>>=C2- =0A>>I showed the photos to my wife that evening and she looke
d at all of the photos for several minutes, made a non-approving sound, an
d handed the iPhone back to me. Now after over 38 years of marriage I have
learned to read her fairly well and when she doesn't like something I hav
e done she never comes right out and says it "SUCKS" but I get the message
just the same. Her response was one of those "well if you insist" it is o
k but I would do it over. Truth was that while the results were exactly wh
at I had planned, they were a disappointment to me as well. My wife just r
eflected back to me what she knew I was feeling. =0A>>=C2- =0A>>Sunday
morning, early Sunday morning, 4:30 am on Sunday morning, I am awake work
ing on the plane in my mind as I usually do when I am trying to work out
problems. I can see every part and mentally I try everything from tear it
all out and start over to leave it as is and hope that when finished it wil
l look ok. I have read several articles regarding the efficiency of the ai
r inlets.=C2- One of the things I remembered was regarding the shape of
the inside of the inlet and that the efficiency was improved by a rolled
and expanding inlet. =C2-The major issue I saw with my initial try was t
he opening just looked too oversized and needed to be toned down.=C2- Th
e whole thing just looked too bulky and out of proportion. =0A>>=C2-
=0A>>I didn=99t want to start over.=C2- I am at the point now wher
e unless it is an issue of flight worthiness I am going to move on and NOT
tear anything else down to start over.=C2- I want to get it flying!=C2
- So the outcome of my 5am design session was to try and add some foam t
o the inside of the opening and trim down the outside to minimize the open
ing by a couple of inches.=C2- I bonded in a couple of foam inserts to t
he inside of the original opening and then shaped them to form a very roun
ded transition to the inside of the scoop.=C2- I then cut down the outsi
de of the scoop around the opening and rolled it back into the original sh
ape.=C2- Mixed another batch of epoxy-micro and filled everything in wit
h the same problem as Saturday, almost 1/2 the batch setup before I could
apply it.=C2- Can't understand, I was only 99 today. =0A>>The second p
hoto in each pair is the resulting design. =C2-They are still somewhat
rough with only the epoxy-micro applied and not smoothed out yet.=C2- I
am much happier with the result and after showing the resulting photos to
my wife I think I might be on fairly good ground.=C2- She liked it. The
opening is almost 2 inches smaller in width and =C2=BD inch in height.=C2
- The outside shape is more rounded and aerodynamic.=C2- The changes a
ren=99t dramatic but when viewed from all angles I think it looks b
etter.=C2- =0A>>I am thinking about shaping a small bit of a fish mout
h into it when viewed from the side but not sure how it will look.=C2- A
ny comments? =0A>>=C2- =0A>>Bob Reed=0A>http://www.matron://forums.mat
ronics.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.====
====== =0A>=0A>=0A>="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-L
ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List=0As.matronics.com/">http:/
/forums.matronics.com=0Ap://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matr
====================
Message 8
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|
| Subject: | Re: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife... |
It will look so much better when painted and just tell people you want it re
ady for the turbine conersion!
Covering the foam with aluminum tape instead of micro/sanding might be easie
r. And work at night!
Scott
On Aug 12, 2013, at 12:37 PM, Flyinisfun@aol.com wrote:
>
> Bob,
> Are you scuffing up the part you are working with. Go over it with about 1
00 grit. Cool down the epoxy more than to room tempt so it will cool down t
he part some as well. Be sure not to reuse any vessel you put ice and epoxy
cans in, for cooking or eating. Their contaminated. (Just a reminder) Go
od luck
>
> Jesse
> Jesse,
>
> Thanks, I will give it a try this coming weekend. I have real concerns ab
out doing the layups with the setup time being so short and that might just g
ive the added time I need. Part of the problem is that even the parts are H
OT and it becomes difficult to get the epoxy to stick and stay.
>
> BOB
>
> From: "Flyinisfun@aol.com" <Flyinisfun@aol.com>
> To: kis-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2013 10:53 PM
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife...
>
> Bob, I had the same problem with epoxy and heat until I got a small pan l
arge enough and deep enough to handle about three large glasses of ice. Put
the cans of resin and hardener in the ice, probably pour in a little water t
o get things going. Cool down the epoxy before mixing, then mix. Have anot
her container the size of the mixed batch and put the cup or whatever into i
t. Keep the batch in the ice and mix it up there and use out of it as you n
eed it. It will not flash off on you. You can get ice at McDonalds or your
favorite fast foods place. You won't need all that much ice to do the tric
k.
>
> Jesse Wright
>
>
> In a message dated 8/11/2013 8:13:11 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, robertr2
37@att.net writes:
> Saturday was another hotter than hell day of work on the plane. I spent th
e morning shaping the foam down to exactly what I had planned and I thought i
t looked pretty good. I then mixed up the micro-epoxy and started the fill i
n of the foam and the smoothing out of the form to the cowling. The fill in w
orked well for the first 15 or 20 minutes and then the heat (101 degrees) go
t to the epoxy and it started setting up in the cup. I managed to just barel
y finish what had to be done but had about 1/4 of the mix harden in the cup.
>
> The first photo in each of the groupings was taken following the Saturday s
ession.
>
> I showed the photos to my wife that evening and she looked at all of the p
hotos for several minutes, made a non-approving sound, and handed the iPhone
back to me. Now after over 38 years of marriage I have learned to read her f
airly well and when she doesn't like something I have done she never comes r
ight out and says it "SUCKS" but I get the message just the same. Her respon
se was one of those "well if you insist" it is ok but I would do it over. Tr
uth was that while the results were exactly what I had planned, they were a d
isappointment to me as well. My wife just reflected back to me what she knew
I was feeling.
>
> Sunday morning, early Sunday morning, 4:30 am on Sunday morning, I am awak
e working on the plane in my mind as I usually do when I am trying to work o
ut problems. I can see every part and mentally I try everything from tear it
all out and start over to leave it as is and hope that when finished it wil
l look ok. I have read several articles regarding the efficiency of the air i
nlets. One of the things I remembered was regarding the shape of the inside
of the inlet and that the efficiency was improved by a rolled and expanding
inlet. The major issue I saw with my initial try was the opening just look
ed too oversized and needed to be toned down. The whole thing just looked t
oo bulky and out of proportion.
>
> I didn=99t want to start over. I am at the point now where unless i
t is an issue of flight worthiness I am going to move on and NOT tear anythi
ng else down to start over. I want to get it flying! So the outcome of my 5
am design session was to try and add some foam to the inside of the opening a
nd trim down the outside to minimize the opening by a couple of inches. I b
onded in a couple of foam inserts to the inside of the original opening and t
hen shaped them to form a very rounded transition to the inside of the scoop
. I then cut down the outside of the scoop around the opening and rolled it
back into the original shape. Mixed another batch of epoxy-micro and fille
d everything in with the same problem as Saturday, almost 1/2 the batch setu
p before I could apply it. Can't understand, I was only 99 today.
> The second photo in each pair is the resulting design. They are still som
ewhat rough with only the epoxy-micro applied and not smoothed out yet. I a
m much happier with the result and after showing the resulting photos to my w
ife I think I might be on fairly good ground. She liked it. The opening is a
lmost 2 inches smaller in width and =C2=BD inch in height. The outside shap
e is more rounded and aerodynamic. The changes aren=99t dramatic
but when viewed from all angles I think it looks better.
> I am thinking about shaping a small bit of a fish mouth into it when viewe
d from the side but not sure how it will look. Any comments?
>
> Bob Reed
> http://www.matron://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofoll
ow">http://forums.=========
>
>
>
>
>
> ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?KIS-List
> s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | KIS Cruiser Crating |
I'll be in US by the end of August to look at Ted Scott's KIS Cruiser. If I confirm
the purchase, I'll need to crate it inside a Container to ship it to Brazil.
I was looking at the spar and horizontal tail dimensions and found that it is not
possible to put the aircraft in a container on it's wheels. I'll probably have
to remove the main and nose landing gears and attach the fuselage with the
spars tips at the container corners (45 degrees). The wings will probably be
attatched to the container side walls.
Have anybody done that with a KIS Cruiser? Any better idea?
Thanks,
Fabricio
--------
Fabricio Pereira
Engineer / Pilot
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406568#406568
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: KIS Cruiser Crating |
Galin,
I just saw a picture on your website where you show your Cruiser arriving at Pulsar
factory in El Salvador in a container.
Do you have pictures showing how it was placed and attached inside the container?
Could you give me some details about this process?
Best,
Fabricio
--------
Fabricio Pereira
Engineer / Pilot
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406570#406570
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