---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/13/13: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:06 AM - Re: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife... (Keith.Miller@esa.int) 2. 06:13 AM - Re: Re: KIS Cruiser Crating (Galin Hernandez) 3. 07:19 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser Crating (Mike Pienaar) 4. 07:23 AM - Re: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife... (Mike Pienaar) 5. 07:31 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser Crating (mark_trickel) 6. 08:06 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser Crating (Robert Reed) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:27 AM PST US Subject: Re: KIS-List: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife... 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From: Galin Hernandez Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: KIS Cruiser Crating It was 5 years ago so I don't remember very well. I do remember it was a tight fit but I think when they took the wings off it actually fit inside the container. The made a frame that held the fuselage so it would not move during transit. They also made a second frame that held the wings along the side of the container. However, my Cruiser is an original design fuselage and yours might be a little wider, especially the horizontal stabilizer and tail portion. Measure the width of the Horizontal Stabilizer and this will tell you if it fits within the container. If so, then you will have to make the wood frame hold the fuselage at an angle while inside the container. Either way I would highly recommend a wood frame securing the fuselage and wings. I hope this helps. Galin On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 10:42 PM, fasilpereira wrote: > > Galin, > > I just saw a picture on your website where you show your Cruiser arriving > at Pulsar factory in El Salvador in a container. > Do you have pictures showing how it was placed and attached inside the > container? Could you give me some details about this process? > Best, > > Fabricio > > -------- > Fabricio Pereira > Engineer / Pilot > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406570#406570 > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:35 AM PST US From: "Mike Pienaar" Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Cruiser Crating Hi Fabricio I built a wooden frame that would fit through the doors of the container. It was basically a rectangle of 6ft by 18ft on the floor and a "wall" 6 ft by 18 ft. I then crossed braced from the bottom to the top corners and bolted the main spar to the frame. You can then slide the frame into the container. The frame with the plane on is not heavy and you can easily secure the frame to the container. You have to remove the landing gear. I will look for a photo Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "fasilpereira" Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 7:35 PM Subject: KIS-List: KIS Cruiser Crating > > I'll be in US by the end of August to look at Ted Scott's KIS Cruiser. If > I confirm the purchase, I'll need to crate it inside a Container to ship > it to Brazil. > I was looking at the spar and horizontal tail dimensions and found that it > is not possible to put the aircraft in a container on it's wheels. I'll > probably have to remove the main and nose landing gears and attach the > fuselage with the spars tips at the container corners (45 degrees). The > wings will probably be attatched to the container side walls. > Have anybody done that with a KIS Cruiser? Any better idea? > Thanks, > > Fabricio > > -------- > Fabricio Pereira > Engineer / Pilot > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406568#406568 > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:52 AM PST US From: "Mike Pienaar" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife... Bob, I know how you feel, also got the wake-up call that there are not too many years left. I wasted too much time trying to do do it perfectly and have now decided not to correct any issues that can wait. You have plenty of winters ahead of you to correct whatever you are not happy with. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Reed To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 1:05 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife... Jesse, For the mold formation I am using 80 grit to scuff the micro mix after cure before applying more or applying the layups. I am shaping using several different Perma-Grit tools. It works great for free form molding if you don't mind getting covered in foam and dust in 100 degree heat. The problem with the last coating of micro-epoxy was probably a result of too dry a mixture combined with the heat. I had some problems with the first application sagging so I probably over compensated a little. Thanks, BOB From: "Flyinisfun@aol.com" To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 2:37 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife... Bob, Are you scuffing up the part you are working with. Go over it with about 100 grit. Cool down the epoxy more than to room tempt so it will cool down the part some as well. Be sure not to reuse any vessel you put ice and epoxy cans in, for cooking or eating. Their contaminated. (Just a reminder) Good luck Jesse Jesse, Thanks, I will give it a try this coming weekend. I have real concerns about doing the layups with the setup time being so short and that might just give the added time I need. Part of the problem is that even the parts are HOT and it becomes difficult to get the epoxy to stick and stay. BOB From: "Flyinisfun@aol.com" To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2013 10:53 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Cowling Air Scoop and my wife... Bob, I had the same problem with epoxy and heat until I got a small pan large enough and deep enough to handle about three large glasses of ice. Put the cans of resin and hardener in the ice, probably pour in a little water to get things going. Cool down the epoxy before mixing, then mix. Have another container the size of the mixed batch and put the cup or whatever into it. Keep the batch in the ice and mix it up there and use out of it as you need it. It will not flash off on you. You can get ice at McDonalds or your favorite fast foods place. You won't need all that much ice to do the trick. Jesse Wright In a message dated 8/11/2013 8:13:11 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, robertr237@att.net writes: Saturday was another hotter than hell day of work on the plane. I spent the morning shaping the foam down to exactly what I had planned and I thought it looked pretty good. I then mixed up the micro-epoxy and started the fill in of the foam and the smoothing out of the form to the cowling. The fill in worked well for the first 15 or 20 minutes and then the heat (101 degrees) got to the epoxy and it started setting up in the cup. I managed to just barely finish what had to be done but had about 1/4 of the mix harden in the cup. The first photo in each of the groupings was taken following the Saturday session. I showed the photos to my wife that evening and she looked at all of the photos for several minutes, made a non-approving sound, and handed the iPhone back to me. Now after over 38 years of marriage I have learned to read her fairly well and when she doesn't like something I have done she never comes right out and says it "SUCKS" but I get the message just the same. Her response was one of those "well if you insist" it is ok but I would do it over. Truth was that while the results were exactly what I had planned, they were a disappointment to me as well. My wife just reflected back to me what she knew I was feeling. Sunday morning, early Sunday morning, 4:30 am on Sunday morning, I am awake working on the plane in my mind as I usually do when I am trying to work out problems. I can see every part and mentally I try everything from tear it all out and start over to leave it as is and hope that when finished it will look ok. I have read several articles regarding the efficiency of the air inlets. One of the things I remembered was regarding the shape of the inside of the inlet and that the efficiency was improved by a rolled and expanding inlet. The major issue I saw with my initial try was the opening just looked too oversized and needed to be toned down. The whole thing just looked too bulky and out of proportion. I didn=99t want to start over. I am at the point now where unless it is an issue of flight worthiness I am going to move on and NOT tear anything else down to start over. I want to get it flying! So the outcome of my 5am design session was to try and add some foam to the inside of the opening and trim down the outside to minimize the opening by a couple of inches. I bonded in a couple of foam inserts to the inside of the original opening and then shaped them to form a very rounded transition to the inside of the scoop. I then cut down the outside of the scoop around the opening and rolled it back into the original shape. Mixed another batch of epoxy-micro and filled everything in with the same problem as Saturday, almost 1/2 the batch setup before I could apply it. Can't understand, I was only 99 today. The second photo in each pair is the resulting design. They are still somewhat rough with only the epoxy-micro applied and not smoothed out yet. I am much happier with the result and after showing the resulting photos to my wife I think I might be on fairly good ground. She liked it. The opening is almost 2 inches smaller in width and =C2=BD inch in height. The outside shape is more rounded and aerodynamic. The changes aren=99t dramatic but when viewed from all angles I think it looks better. I am thinking about shaping a small bit of a fish mouth into it when viewed from the side but not sure how it will look. Any comments? Bob Reed http://www.matron://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.========= ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?KIS-List s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigatnics.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.matronics.com/< ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:31:38 AM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Re: KIS Cruiser Crating From: "mark_trickel" Hello Fabricio, I am the brother of Richard Trickel, the designer and manufacture of KIS aircraft. Congratulations on your purchase of Teds Scotts TR-4 (that is should you go through with the deal). Although I have no experience shipping in a container I did recently move my TR-1C 1200 miles across the USA. I took me a few months to plan the move and a solid month to prepare the rigging to mount to airplane onto a trailer. My brother had vast amount of container shipping experience, he shipped airplanes all over the world. Most of them were in kit form but a few were completed airplanes. In 2006 (I think) He shipped two TR-4s to the big Oshkosh airshow located in the Northern middle of the USA from Pulsars shops in El Salvador. You are correct, the only way to fit a TR-4 in a container is mounting it on a frame to hold it at a 45 degree angle with a slight nose up attitude. Attached is a picture I found on the web of the airplane in the frame. Sorry the resolution of the picture is bad but it shows the frame style you will need to fabricate. It is hard to see much detail but the main landing gear has been removed to fit it into the container. When this airplane was returned to El Salvador somewhere along the way the container was dropped. There were many areas on the wings and fuselage where to cores of the laminated composite skins were crushed and needed extensive repairs. The prop hub was hit so hard they treated it like a prop strike, and they pulled the engine off the airplane for repairs. So I caution you to take extra care and add a lot of padding around all the components, and make sure that everything will remain stationary. There is one other TR-4 (from Pulsar) in Bauru, Brazil. This airplane should be flying by now. There is also a KIS TR-1 somewhere in Brazil but I am not sure where it is. If you have any other questions feel free to ask. Good Luck, Mark Trickel Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406620#406620 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/pulsar300_tr_4b_174.jpg ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:02 AM PST US From: Robert Reed Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Cruiser Crating Fabricio,=0A-=0AI have read several of the replies and your comments as w ell.- =0A-=0AI agree totally that the gear should be removed but I also would suggest that you make sure the engine is also removed and packed sep arately.- (Yeah, I know you already thought of that but I will not make a ny assumptions.)--I don't see much alternative to loading the fuselage on a 45degree angle inside a frame.- I would both strap the plane to the frame and pad it as well.- The fuselage will be essentially floating with in the framework.- Removing the engine and landing gear removes much of t he weight mass.- The wings are big and bulky but easily padded and secure d.- =0A-=0AI have moved my plane twice, once from Houston to Dallas (27 5 miles) and from one side of Dallas to the other (50 miles).- Both were gut wrenching experiences.- Even though I had tied down, strapped down, a nd done everything to secure the plane in both cases the length of the trip combined with wind, vibration, bouncing around,-road hazards including s ome very stupid drivers who nearly collided with the trailer-looking-at it, and in one case a broken hitch made for near disasters.- For that re ason I can't emphasize enough the importance of both padding and tightly st rapping-everything down with backup to the backup.- Expect that the con tainer, trailer, whatever is going to get some very rough handling along th e way.- Everything that can be taken off and packed separately and secure ly should be.- Finally, nothing should be able to move about separately w ithin the container.- =0A-=0AGOOD LUCK and welcome to the kisbuilders. =0A-=0ABob Reed =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: fasilpere ira =0ATo: kis-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday , August 12, 2013 9:35 PM=0ASubject: KIS-List: KIS Cruiser Crating=0A =0A >=0A=0AI'll be in US by the end of August to look at Ted Scott's KIS Cruise r. If I confirm the purchase, I'll need to crate it inside a Container to s hip it to Brazil.=0AI was looking at the spar and horizontal tail dimension s and found that it is not possible to put the aircraft in a container on i t's wheels. I'll probably have to remove the main and nose landing gears an d attach the fuselage with the spars tips at the container corners (45 degr ees). The wings will probably be attatched to the container side walls.=0AH ave anybody done that with a KIS Cruiser? Any better idea?=0AThanks,=0A=0AF abricio=0A=0A--------=0AFabricio Pereira=0AEngineer / Pilot=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AR ead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php? = ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.