---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 09/23/13: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:28 AM - Re: Horizontal Tail Span (fasilpereira) 2. 04:06 AM - Re: Flight Hours Since New? (Mike and Michele Patten) 3. 08:02 AM - Re: Re: Horizontal Tail Span (Galin Hernandez) 4. 09:35 AM - Re: Closing the fuselage (Robert Reed) 5. 03:55 PM - Re: Closing the fuselage (jerzy krasinski) 6. 04:08 PM - Re: Closing the fuselage (Robert Reed) 7. 04:33 PM - Re: Closing the fuselage (Scott Stearns) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:28:04 AM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Re: Horizontal Tail Span From: "fasilpereira" I have an old TR-4 specs file from Contact Magazine where the horizontal tail span is listed at 8'9". Galin's Aircraft Manual also has 8'9". But if you take a look at the KIS TR-4 sales Brochure, the horizontal tail span is 10'3" (see attatched file). On the ZU-BKK aircrafy manual also has the same span for the horizontal tail. That's what I though that the tail span was increased during the development of the kits. Best, Fabricio -------- Fabricio Pereira Engineer / Pilot Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409031#409031 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/kis_tr4_sales_brochure_923.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:06:22 AM PST US From: "Mike and Michele Patten" Subject: RE: KIS-List: Flight Hours Since New? Hi, KIS TR1 VH AIG in Australia has 1200hrs, of which I have done approx. 900hrs. Regards, Mike. From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez Sent: Monday, 23 September 2013 1:16 AM Subject: KIS-List: Flight Hours Since New? As I approach the 1,000hr point on my KIS4, I was wondering who else has 1,000 or more flight hours on their KIS airplane? AND this begs the question, who has the most flight hours on their KIS1 or KIS4? Inquiring minds want to know. Galin 947Hrs and counting. No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Horizontal Tail Span From: Galin Hernandez I recommend you increase the tail span if possible. The smaller tail runs out of elevator authority just before you land and you can't keep the nose wheel up very long. The landings wind up being a little hard on the nose gear. Since I have the smaller tail, I added vortex generators to the bottom of the elevator. Now on approach I don't run out of elevator authority and I can keep the nose wheel off the runway for quite a while after landing. The landings are significantly softer on the nose wheel because of this. Galin On Monday, September 23, 2013, fasilpereira wrote: > > > > I have an old TR-4 specs file from Contact Magazine where the horizontal > tail span is listed at 8'9". Galin's Aircraft Manual also has 8'9". > > But if you take a look at the KIS TR-4 sales Brochure, the horizontal tail > span is 10'3" (see attatched file). On the ZU-BKK aircrafy manual also has > the same span for the horizontal tail. > > That's what I though that the tail span was increased during the > development of the kits. > > Best, > > Fabricio > > -------- > Fabricio Pereira > Engineer / Pilot > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409031#409031 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/kis_tr4_sales_brochure_923.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:41 AM PST US From: Robert Reed Subject: Re: KIS-List: Closing the fuselage Mike,=0A=C2-=0AI learned my lesson in May when I tried painting the flaps , elevator and ailerons.=C2- The paint is a water based polymer that was setting up before it had a chance to flow out and resulted in brush marks =C2-needing to be sanded.=C2- The recommendation is 70 degrees or less with 60% or more humidity.=C2-=C2-The coating is so hard that sanding i t is like sanding clear epoxy.=C2- I will have no choice but to use the r oll and tip with that paint for the fuselage.=C2- There is no paint shop on the field and we are not allowed to spray in the "T" hangars for some re ason.=C2- The ONLY time of the year when those requirements might be met inside my hangar will be between late November and first of March.=C2- I want to have everything ready for the first cool wet day that will allow me to apply at least a half way decent paint job.=C2- Still hoping that I c an get the wings and all other removable parts spray painted by a professio nal though.=0A=C2-=0ALooking forward to seeing=C2-those progress photos ,=C2- =0A=C2-=0ABob=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2- =0A=0A__________________ ______________=0A From: Mike Pienaar =0ATo: kis-list@mat ronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 11:15 PM=0ASubject: Re: KIS- List: Closing the fuselage=0A =0A=0A=0A=EF=BB =0ABob, =0A=C2- =0AThan ks for your input, I have exactly the opposite =0Aproblem to you, I wanted to get the painting done before the wet and cold set in =0Abut I also wante d to finish the inside of the fuselage as much as possible. =0AAchieved nei ther during summer. =0A=C2- =0AWill post foto's of my progress soon. =0A =C2- =0AKeep well =0A=C2- =0AMike =0A----- Original Message ----- =0A> From: Robert Reed =0A>To: kis-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Sunday, Septem ber 22, 2013 6:15 PM =0A>Subject: Re: KIS-List: Closing the fuselage =0A> =0A> =0A>Mike, =0A>=C2- =0A>This is one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations.=C2- Most of my interior is in the final, await ing installation stage with the key exception of the electrical systems. =C2- I had been planning to do all the electrical possible before closin g out the top but decided I would be better off to concentrate on completi ng ALL the glass and epoxy work during the summer and fall while I had war m weather.=C2- Primary reason being that I wanted to be ready to prime a nd paint as soon as cool wet weather allows it.=C2- A second reason bein g there is no way I want to be working inside the fuselage when it is 90 t o 100 degrees.=C2- I can work the electrical in cool weather a lot easie r than hot. =0A>=C2- =0A>I have installed hard mounting points for most o f the interior plumbing and electrical.=C2- The brake lines are all in a s well.=C2- I will be mounting the two batteries (Oddessy PC680) on eith er side of the center console with the master, starter, and crossover rela ys in the same area under the front seats.=C2- The voltage regulators wi ll also be in the same area.=C2- It makes use of a dead area that can't really=C2-be used for anything else since I am using adjustable seats an d rails.=C2- =0A>=C2- =0A>Oh, I have also done paper patterns for all of the upholstry and the seats have all been done. =0A>=C2- =0A>Bob=C2 - =0A>=0A>________________________________=0A>From: Mike Pienaar =0A>To: kis-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 6:25 PM=0A>Subject: KIS-List: Closing the fuselage=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A> =EF=BB =0A>Hi Bob =0A>=C2- =0A>I see in the foto's of your exhaust th at you have closed the fuselage. How far have you progressed on the interi or? =0A>=C2- =0A>I am holding off closing the fusealge till I have done as much as possible on the interior and I'm busy with the wiring now, =0A> would hate to have done it with the fuselage closed but not closing the fu selage delays other items. Always a difficult compromise =0A>=C2- =0A>Go od luck =0A>=C2- =0A>Mike =0A>----- Original Message ----- =0A>>From: R obert Reed =0A>>To: kis-list@matronics.com =0A>>Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:09 AM =0A>>Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Trial Fit of 4 into 1 Exha ust =0A>>=0A>> =0A>>Mark, =0A>>=C2- =0A>>A very nice looking Cruiser and it looks like I won't be the next one flying after all.=C2- =0A>>=C2- =0A>>Oh well, progress is progress and I am inching =0Aalong. =0A>>=C2- =0A>>Bob Reed =0A>>=0A>> =0A>>=0A>>________________________________=0A>>Fro m: mark_trickel =0A>>To: kis-list@matronics.com =0A> >Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:27 AM=0A>>Subject: KIS-List: Re: Tria l Fit of 4 into 1 Exhaust=0A>> =0A>>=0A>>--> KIS-List message posted =0A by: "mark_trickel" =0A>>=0A>>Wow, =0A that sure does look pretty. One more step to completion checked off the =0A list. Here=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s a little inspiration I found last =0A week :=0A>>=0A>>http://eaa104.org/documents/NL0913.pdf=0A>>=0A>>Check page 6 of =0A this chapter newsletter. I had this one as flying but it is not. App arently =0A in the eyes of some States if it is registered at the FAA it is flyable, and =0A they are entitled to sales tax, and yearly registra tion fees (unlike the =0A project car I have). In the paper work for my airplane is a stack of yearly =0A Minnesota registration receipts. In 18 years the thing never left the =0A hanger. Looks like Ed Hanson will be flying by years end.=0A>>=0A>>Mark =0A T.=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Read this topic online =0A here:=0A>>=0A>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtop ic.php?p=408727#408727 =0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>href="http://www.m atronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-Lis t=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref ="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c =0A>h ttp://www.matronics.com/================= =0A>=0A>=0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://ww w.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" ======================= ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:55:07 PM PST US From: jerzy krasinski Subject: Re: KIS-List: Closing the fuselage Bob,=0A=0AI had a very bad experience using water based polymer paint.=C2 -=0AThe damn paint was running down even in hot and dry Oklahoma. It requ ired to paint surfaces in a close to horizontal arrangement.=C2-=0AI cant imagine how to use this paint in humid Eastern and South states=0AI select ed it because it was heavily advertised as non toxic specially developed fo r home builders=0ASomehow I managed to get it painted. =C2-=0AThe real pr oblem started when =C2- the plane was exposed to the =C2-first rain. =C2-A short light =C2-rain and the whole surface developed sticking out bubbles filled with water.=0AI had to grind and peel off the whole paint =0AI painted the whole thing again with a regular automotive paint with org anic isocyanate as a hardener. The spray of this paint is toxic but it has low vapor pressure so you do not have to worry about vapor poisoning. I mad e a wind tunnel of plastic sheets and a large blower to direct the flow of spray particles out of the painting room. I painted in a gas mask protectin g my eyes and lungs.=0AThe automotive paint worked as a charm. No compariso n with the troubles caused by the other =C2-crappy stuff.=0ADo not buy fa lse argument that automotive paint is not good for airplanes! These argumen t were spread by producers of the useless water based paint.=0AI forgot the name of the company that sold me that water based paint, they are not wort h remembering anyway.=C2-=0AIt was something starting with POLY.... =C2 - and they specialized in home build plane market, mostly fabric for the wings.=C2-=0A=0AJerzy=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: R obert Reed =0ATo: "kis-list@matronics.com" =0ASent: Monday, September 23, 2013 11:35 AM=0ASubject: Re: KI S-List: Closing the fuselage=0A =0A=0A=0AMike,=0A=C2-=0AI learned my less on in May when I tried painting the flaps, elevator and ailerons.=C2- The paint is a water based polymer that was setting up before it had a chance to flow out and resulted in brush marks=C2-needing to be sanded.=C2- Th e recommendation is 70 degrees or less with 60% or more humidity.=C2-=C2 -The coating is so hard that sanding it is like sanding clear epoxy.=C2 - I will have no choice but to use the roll and tip with that paint for t he fuselage.=C2- There is no paint shop on the field and we are not allow ed to spray in the "T" hangars for some reason.=C2- The ONLY time of the year when those requirements might be met inside my hangar will be between late November and first of March.=C2- I want to have everything ready for the first cool wet day that will allow me to apply at least a half way dec ent paint job.=C2- Still hoping that I can get the wings and all other re movable parts spray painted by a professional though.=0A=C2-=0ALooking fo rward to seeing=C2-those progress photos,=C2- =0A=C2-=0ABob=0A=C2- =0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0AFrom: Mike Pienaar =0ATo: kis-list@ matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 11:15 PM=0ASubject: Re: K IS-List: Closing the fuselage=0A =0A=0A=0A=EF=BB =0ABob,=0A=C2-=0AThan ks for your input, I have exactly the opposite =0Aproblem to you, I wanted to get the painting done before the wet and cold set in =0Abut I also wante d to finish the inside of the fuselage as much as possible. =0AAchieved nei ther during summer.=0A=C2-=0AWill post foto's of my progress soon.=0A=C2 -=0AKeep well=0A=C2-=0AMike=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>From: Ro bert Reed =0A>To: kis-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Sunday, September 22, 20 13 6:15 PM=0A>Subject: Re: KIS-List: Closing the fuselage=0A>=0A>=0A>Mike ,=0A>=C2-=0A>This is one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations.=C2- Most of my interior is in the final, awaiting installatio n stage with the key exception of the electrical systems.=C2- I had been planning to do all the electrical possible before closing out the top but decided I would be better off to concentrate on completing ALL the glass and epoxy work during the summer and fall while I had warm weather.=C2- Primary reason being that I wanted to be ready to prime and paint as soon as cool wet weather allows it.=C2- A second reason being there is no way I want to be working inside the fuselage when it is 90 to 100 degrees.=C2 - I can work the electrical in cool weather a lot easier than hot.=0A> =C2-=0A>I have installed hard mounting points for most of the interior p lumbing and electrical.=C2- The brake lines are all in as well.=C2- I will be mounting the two batteries (Oddessy PC680) on either side of the c enter console with the master, starter, and crossover relays in the same ar ea under the front seats.=C2- The voltage regulators will also be in the same area.=C2- It makes use of a dead area that can't really=C2-be us ed for anything else since I am using adjustable seats and rails.=C2- =0A>=C2-=0A>Oh, I have also done paper patterns for all of the upholstry and the seats have all been done.=0A>=C2-=0A>Bob=C2- =0A>From: Mike Pi enaar =0A>To: kis-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 6:25 PM=0A>Subject: KIS-List: Closing the fuselage=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>=EF=BB =0A>Hi Bob=0A>=C2-=0A>I see in the foto's of your exhaust that you have closed the fuselage. How far have you progressed on the interior?=0A>=C2-=0A>I am holding off closing the fusealge till I hav e done as much as possible on the interior and I'm busy with the wiring n ow,=0A>would hate to have done it with the fuselage closed but not closing the fuselage delays other items. Always a difficult compromise=0A>=C2- =0A>Good luck=0A>=C2-=0A>Mike=0A>----- Original Message ----- =0A>>From: Robert Reed =0A>>To: kis-list@matronics.com =0A>>Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:09 AM=0A>>Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Trial Fit of 4 into 1 Exhau st=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Mark,=0A>>=C2-=0A>>A very nice looking Cruiser and it lo oks like I won't be the next one flying after all.=C2- =0A>>=C2-=0A>>O h well, progress is progress and I am inching =0Aalong.=0A>>=C2-=0A>>Bob Reed=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>From: mark_trickel =0A>>To: kis-l ist@matronics.com =0A>>Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:27 AM=0A>>Subje ct: KIS-List: Re: Trial Fit of 4 into 1 Exhaust=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>--> KIS-List message posted =0A by: "mark_trickel" =0A>>=0A>>W ow, =0A that sure does look pretty. One more step to completion checked off the =0A list. Here=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s a little inspiration I f ound last =0A week:=0A>>=0A>>http://eaa104.org/documents/NL0913.pdf=0A>> =0A>>Check page 6 of =0A this chapter newsletter. I had this one as flyi ng but it is not. Apparently =0A in the eyes of some States if it is reg istered at the FAA it is flyable, and =0A they are entitled to sales tax , and yearly registration fees (unlike the =0A project car I have). In t he paper work for my airplane is a stack of yearly =0A Minnesota registr ation receipts. In 18 years the thing never left the =0A hanger. Looks l ike Ed Hanson will be flying by years end.=0A>>=0A>>Mark =0A T.=0A>>=0A> >=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Read this topic online =0A here:=0A>>=0A>>http://forums. matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408727#408727 =0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A> >href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?KIS-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums .matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www. matronics.com/c =0A>http://www.matronics.com/========== ======= =0A>=0A>=0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigato r?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List=0Ahref="http://fo rums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matron ics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c =0Ahttp://www.matronics.co ======= ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:08:16 PM PST US From: Robert Reed Subject: Re: KIS-List: Closing the fuselage You are talking about PolyFiber paint and I had researched that paint befor e.=C2- Everything I could find out about their paint for Fiberglass was i ndicating problems.=C2- They seem to have a better record for fabric base d aircraft.=0A=C2-=0AWhat I am using is the System Three WR-LPU paint tha t is sold primarily for marine coatings so I am not too concerned about rai n.=C2- The problem for me wasn't running but setting up too fast to flow out correctly.=C2- That being said, I would have preferred an auto based coating if I could have done so.=C2- I have contacted three local AUTO pa int shops to see if they would do the spraying of the wings and surprise, t wo of the three are using water based paints for cars.=C2- (Mostly due to =C2-environmental rules.)=0A=C2-=0ABob=0A =0A=0A_______________________ _________=0A From: jerzy krasinski =0ATo: "k is-list@matronics.com" =0ASent: Monday, September 23, 2013 5:54 PM=0ASubject: Re: KIS-List: Closing the fuselage=0A =0A=0A =0ABob,=0A=0AI had a very bad experience using water based polymer paint. =C2-=0AThe damn paint was running down even in hot and dry Oklahoma. It r equired to paint surfaces in a close to horizontal arrangement.=C2-=0AI c ant imagine how to use this paint in humid Eastern and South states=0AI sel ected it because it was heavily advertised as non toxic specially developed for home builders=0ASomehow I managed to get it painted. =C2-=0AThe real problem started when =C2- the plane was exposed to the =C2-first rain. =C2-A short light =C2-rain and the whole surface developed sticking ou t bubbles filled with water.=0AI had to grind and peel off the whole paint =0AI painted the whole thing again with a regular automotive paint with org anic isocyanate as a hardener. The spray of this paint is toxic but it has low vapor pressure so you do not have to worry about vapor poisoning. I mad e a wind tunnel of plastic sheets and a large blower to direct the flow of spray particles out of the painting room. I painted in a gas mask protectin g my eyes and lungs.=0AThe automotive paint worked as a charm. No compariso n with the troubles caused by the other =C2-crappy stuff.=0ADo not buy fa lse argument that automotive paint is not good for airplanes! These argumen t were spread by producers of the useless water based paint.=0AI forgot the name of the company that sold me that water based paint, they are not wort h remembering anyway.=C2-=0AIt was something starting with POLY.... =C2 - and they specialized in home build plane market, mostly fabric for the wings.=C2-=0A=0AJerzy=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Robert Reed =0ATo: "kis-list@matronics.com" =0ASent: Monday, September 23, 2013 11:35 AM=0ASubject: Re: K IS-List: Closing the fuselage=0A =0A=0A=0AMike,=0A=C2-=0AI learned my le sson in May when I tried painting the flaps, elevator and ailerons.=C2- T he paint is a water based polymer that was setting up before it had a chanc e to flow out and resulted in brush marks=C2-needing to be sanded.=C2- The recommendation is 70 degrees or less with 60% or more humidity.=C2- =C2-The coating is so hard that sanding it is like sanding clear epoxy. =C2- I will have no choice but to use the roll and tip with that paint fo r the fuselage.=C2- There is no paint shop on the field and we are not al lowed to spray in the "T" hangars for some reason.=C2- The ONLY time of t he year when those requirements might be met inside my hangar will be betwe en late November and first of March.=C2- I want to have everything ready for the first cool wet day that will allow me to apply at least a half way decent paint job.=C2- Still hoping that I can get the wings and all other removable parts spray painted by a professional though.=0A=C2-=0ALooking forward to seeing=C2-those progress photos,=C2- =0A=0ABob=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A________________________________=0A From: Mike Pienaar =0ATo: kis-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 11:15 P M=0ASubject: Re: KIS-List: Closing the fuselage=0A =0A=0A=0A=EF=BB =0AB ob, =0A=C2- =0AThanks for your input, I have exactly the opposite =0Aprob lem to you, I wanted to get the painting done before the wet and cold set i n =0Abut I also wanted to finish the inside of the fuselage as much as poss ible. =0AAchieved neither during summer. =0A=C2- =0AWill post foto's of m y progress soon. =0A=C2- =0AKeep well =0A=C2- =0AMike =0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>From: Robert Reed =0A>To: kis-list@matronics.com =0A> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 6:15 PM =0A>Subject: Re: KIS-List: Closin g the fuselage =0A>=0A> =0A>Mike, =0A>=C2- =0A>This is one of those damn ed if you do, damned if you don't situations.=C2- Most of my interior is in the final, awaiting installation stage with the key exception of the e lectrical systems.=C2- I had been planning to do all the electrical poss ible before closing out the top but decided I would be better off to conce ntrate on completing ALL the glass and epoxy work during the summer and fa ll while I had warm weather.=C2- Primary reason being that I wanted to b e ready to prime and paint as soon as cool wet weather allows it.=C2- A second reason being there is no way I want to be working inside the fusela ge when it is 90 to 100 degrees.=C2- I can work the electrical in cool w eather a lot easier than hot. =0A>=C2- =0A>I have installed hard mounting points for most of the interior plumbing and electrical.=C2- The brake lines are all in as well.=C2- I will be mounting the two batteries (Odde ssy PC680) on either side of the center console with the master, starter, and crossover relays in the same area under the front seats.=C2- The vol tage regulators will also be in the same area.=C2- It makes use of a dea d area that can't really=C2-be used for anything else since I am using a djustable seats and rails.=C2- =0A>=C2- =0A>Oh, I have also done paper patterns for all of the upholstry and the seats have all been done. =0A> =C2- =0A>Bob=C2- =0A>=0A>________________________________=0A>From: Mike Pienaar =0A>To: kis-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Sunda y, September 22, 2013 6:25 PM=0A>Subject: KIS-List: Closing the fuselage =0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>=EF=BB =0A>Hi Bob =0A>=C2- =0A>I see in the foto's o f your exhaust that you have closed the fuselage. How far have you progres sed on the interior? =0A>=C2- =0A>I am holding off closing the fusealge t ill I have done as much as possible on the interior and I'm busy with the wiring now, =0A>would hate to have done it with the fuselage closed but n ot closing the fuselage delays other items. Always a difficult compromise =0A>=C2- =0A>Good luck =0A>=C2- =0A>Mike =0A>----- Original Message -- --- =0A>>From: Robert Reed =0A>>To: kis-list@matronics.com =0A>>Sent: Tu esday, September 17, 2013 8:09 AM =0A>>Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Trial Fit of 4 into 1 Exhaust =0A>>=0A>> =0A>>Mark, =0A>>=C2- =0A>>A very nice loo king Cruiser and it looks like I won't be the next one flying after all. =C2- =0A>>=C2- =0A>>Oh well, progress is progress and I am inching =0A along. =0A>>=C2- =0A>>Bob Reed =0A>>=0A>> =0A>>=0A>>_____________________ ___________=0A>>From: mark_trickel =0A>>To: kis-list @matronics.com =0A>>Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:27 AM=0A>>Subject: KIS-List: Re: Trial Fit of 4 into 1 Exhaust=0A>> =0A>>=0A>>--> KIS-List me ssage posted =0A by: "mark_trickel" =0A>>=0A>>Wow , =0A that sure does look pretty. One more step to completion checked of f the =0A list. Here=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s a little inspiration I fou nd last =0A week:=0A>>=0A>>http://eaa104.org/documents/NL0913.pdf=0A>> =0A>>Check page 6 of =0A this chapter newsletter. I had this one as flyi ng but it is not. Apparently =0A in the eyes of some States if it is reg istered at the FAA it is flyable, and =0A they are entitled to sales tax , and yearly registration fees (unlike the =0A project car I have). In t he paper work for my airplane is a stack of yearly =0A Minnesota registr ation receipts. In 18 years the thing never left the =0A hanger. Looks l ike Ed Hanson will be flying by years end.=0A>>=0A>>Mark =0A T.=0A>>=0A> >=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Read this topic online =0A here:=0A>>=0A>>http://forums. matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408727#408727 =0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A> >href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?KIS-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums .matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www. matronics.com/c =0A>http://www.matronics.com/========== ======= =0A>=0A>=0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigato r?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List=0Ahref="http://fo rums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matron ics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c =0Ahttp://www.matronics.c om/================= =0A=0A =0Ahttp:// www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-Listw" target="_blank" href="http://www .matronics.com/contribution">http://============= ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:33:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: KIS-List: Closing the fuselage From: Scott Stearns I have to agree. I started with the poly... water based primer. Bg waste o f time and money. I highly recommend going to the local auto body/paint supply store and telli ng them you need a high build sandable primer and paint the you can color sand and buff out. I f you are using a roller throw it away and buy the $15 hvlp spray gun from harbor frieght. I primer and painted my airplane in pieces outside. With the hvlp gun the o verspray is pretty minmal. Primer is easy, just hose it down and block it down. Dont worry about a little dirt or dust in the paint and dont worry about the initial surface finish. Spray a thin paint coat, let it cure for 15 minutes then a medium coat, 15 m inutes, another medium coat, Let it dry for a few days and color sand it with 1000 grit, then 2000 grit, then buff it with a $40 harbor frieght paint buff er. Get some buffing pads and buffing compound from the auto paint supply place. I get compliments on the paint finish of my airplane all the time. It is a mazing what a little sanding and buffing can do. Sorry if this comes off as a little abrasive, but following this advise wou ld have saved me hundreds of hours. Scott On Sep 23, 2013, at 12:54 PM, jerzy krasinski wrote: > Bob, > > I had a very bad experience using water based polymer paint. > The damn paint was running down even in hot and dry Oklahoma. It required t o paint surfaces in a close to horizontal arrangement. > I cant imagine how to use this paint in humid Eastern and South states > I selected it because it was heavily advertised as non toxic specially dev eloped for home builders > Somehow I managed to get it painted. > The real problem started when the plane was exposed to the first rain. A short light rain and the whole surface developed sticking out bubbles fi lled with water. > I had to grind and peel off the whole paint > I painted the whole thing again with a regular automotive paint with organ ic isocyanate as a hardener. The spray of this paint is toxic but it has low vapor pressure so you do not have to worry about vapor poisoning. I made a w ind tunnel of plastic sheets and a large blower to direct the flow of spray p articles out of the painting room. I painted in a gas mask protecting my eye s and lungs. > The automotive paint worked as a charm. No comparison with the troubles ca used by the other crappy stuff. > Do not buy false argument that automotive paint is not good for airplanes! These argument were spread by producers of the useless water based paint. > I forgot the name of the company that sold me that water based paint, they are not worth remembering anyway. > It was something starting with POLY.... and they specialized in home bui ld plane market, mostly fabric for the wings. > > Jerzy > > From: Robert Reed > To: "kis-list@matronics.com" > Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 11:35 AM > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Closing the fuselage > > Mike, > > I learned my lesson in May when I tried painting the flaps, elevator and a ilerons. The paint is a water based polymer that was setting up before it h ad a chance to flow out and resulted in brush marks needing to be sanded. T he recommendation is 70 degrees or less with 60% or more humidity. The coat ing is so hard that sanding it is like sanding clear epoxy. I will have no c hoice but to use the roll and tip with that paint for the fuselage. There i s no paint shop on the field and we are not allowed to spray in the "T" hang ars for some reason. The ONLY time of the year when those requirements migh t be met inside my hangar will be between late November and first of March. I want to have everything ready for the first cool wet day that will allow m e to apply at least a half way decent paint job. Still hoping that I can ge t the wings and all other removable parts spray painted by a professional th ough. > > Looking forward to seeing those progress photos, > > Bob > > > > From: Mike Pienaar > To: kis-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 11:15 PM > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Closing the fuselage > > =EF=BB > Bob, > > Thanks for your input, I have exactly the opposite problem to you, I wante d to get the painting done before the wet and cold set in but I also wanted t o finish the inside of the fuselage as much as possible. Achieved neither du ring summer. > > Will post foto's of my progress soon. > > Keep well > > Mike > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert Reed > To: kis-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 6:15 PM > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Closing the fuselage > > Mike, > > This is one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations. Mo st of my interior is in the final, awaiting installation stage with the key e xception of the electrical systems. I had been planning to do all the elect rical possible before closing out the top but decided I would be better off t o concentrate on completing ALL the glass and epoxy work during the summer a nd fall while I had warm weather. Primary reason being that I wanted to be r eady to prime and paint as soon as cool wet weather allows it. A second rea son being there is no way I want to be working inside the fuselage when it i s 90 to 100 degrees. I can work the electrical in cool weather a lot easier than hot. > > I have installed hard mounting points for most of the interior plumbing an d electrical. The brake lines are all in as well. I will be mounting the t wo batteries (Oddessy PC680) on either side of the center console with the m aster, starter, and crossover relays in the same area under the front seats. The voltage regulators will also be in the same area. It makes use of a d ead area that can't really be used for anything else since I am using adjust able seats and rails. > > Oh, I have also done paper patterns for all of the upholstry and the seats have all been done. > > Bob > > From: Mike Pienaar > To: kis-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 6:25 PM > Subject: KIS-List: Closing the fuselage > > =EF=BB > Hi Bob > > I see in the foto's of your exhaust that you have closed the fuselage. How far have you progressed on the interior? > > I am holding off closing the fusealge till I have done as much as possible on the interior and I'm busy with the wiring now, > would hate to have done it with the fuselage closed but not closing the fu selage delays other items. Always a difficult compromise > > Good luck > > Mike > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert Reed > To: kis-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:09 AM > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Trial Fit of 4 into 1 Exhaust > > Mark, > > A very nice looking Cruiser and it looks like I won't be the next one flyi ng after all. > > Oh well, progress is progress and I am inching along. > > Bob Reed > > From: mark_trickel > To: kis-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:27 AM > Subject: KIS-List: Re: Trial Fit of 4 into 1 Exhaust > > > Wow, that sure does look pretty. One more step to completion checked off t he list. Here=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s a little inspiration I found last wee k: > > http://eaa104.org/documents/NL0913.pdf > > Check page 6 of this chapter newsletter. I had this one as flying but it i s not. Apparently in the eyes of some States if it is registered at the FAA i t is flyable, and they are entitled to sales tax, and yearly registration fe es (unlike the project car I have). In the paper work for my airplane is a s tack of yearly Minnesota registration receipts. In 18 years the thing never l eft the hanger. Looks like Ed Hanson will be flying by years end. > > Mark T. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408727#408727 > > > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?KIS-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > http://www.matronics.com/================= > > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?KIS-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > http://www.matronics.com/================= > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-Listw" target="_blank" href="ht tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://=========== =========== > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.