---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 06/06/14: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:03 AM - Re: Mishap (Owen Baker) 2. 03:59 PM - Re: Re: Mishap (Maurice Wright) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:42 AM PST US From: "Owen Baker " Subject: KIS-List: Re: Mishap 6/6/2014 Hello Julian, Thank you for your response. Your description of the landing difficulties for the KIS TR-1 is apt: 1) One has to accept that the KIS TR-1 is not a good short field airplane and that considerable skill is required to land it consistently on short runways. 2) A very skilled pilot may be able to land it short field successfully by looking at the side of the runway (because the view over the nose is blocked late in the landing flare). 3) A very skilled pilot may be able to land it short field successfully by carrying some small amount of engine power during the landing flare (which does add to landing roll out distance) until just before main landing gear touch down. I have concluded that I am no longer a very skilled pilot (maybe I never was) and it has taken me years to come up with an approach and landng method that works for me with my KIS TR-1. Along with avoiding short fields or short field landing attempts here is my technique: A) I observe very close airspeed control (between 75 and 80 knots indicated for my airplane) during the landing approach. 75 KIAS is OK if the airplane is light. B) I fly a very flat approach and set my engine RPM between 1200 and 1300 late in the approach. C) During the landing flare I try to never raise the nose above the far end of the runway or a spot on the horizon beyond the far end of the runway. D) If I do reduce the engine power any further during the landing flare it is very gradually and very close to main landing gear touch down. OC PS: Hang in there with building the Glastar. We have a few that have been built in our EAA Chapter and the owners are happy with them. ============ From: Julian Bone Sent: Monday, June 02, 2014 8:04 AM Subject: RE: Mishap Hi Owen Thanks for the email. I damaged the KIS in a minor overrun landing approx ten years ago and decided not to repair it. Visibility is poor on approach at the correct speed as the direction of travel is through the floor, it really does need an airbrake to lower the nose or more attack on the wing, mine was set to 3 degrees as I remember. Climbout is also pretty poor as designed. I guess I just got tired of it! I regret not repairing it but having had a number of near misses I decided enough was enough. I am nearing completion of a Glastar, however it is a ludicrously complex kit compared to the KIS! The doors are unbelievably overbuilt. The KIS was a more fun aeroplane but a pig to land in extreme circumstances. I hope you are well. Regards Julian ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- From: Owen Baker [mailto:bakerocb@cox.net] Sent: 31 May 2014 12:01 Subject: Mishap 5/31/2014 Hello Julian, Sorry to hear about the mishap with your KIS. Can you please tell me anything about the circumstances? Thanks, OC PS: Are you on any Glasair builders internet list? ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:59:27 PM PST US From: "Maurice Wright" Subject: RE: KIS-List: Re: Mishap _____ From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Owen Baker Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 9:03 AM Subject: KIS-List: Re: Mishap 6/6/2014 Hello Julian, Thank you for your response. Your description of the landing difficulties for the KIS TR-1 is apt: 1) One has to accept that the KIS TR-1 is not a good short field airplane and that considerable skill is required to land it consistently on short runways. 2) A very skilled pilot may be able to land it short field successfully by looking at the side of the runway (because the view over the nose is blocked late in the landing flare). 3) A very skilled pilot may be able to land it short field successfully by carrying some small amount of engine power during the landing flare (which does add to landing roll out distance) until just before main landing gear touch down. I have concluded that I am no longer a very skilled pilot (maybe I never was) and it has taken me years to come up with an approach and landng method that works for me with my KIS TR-1. Along with avoiding short fields or short field landing attempts here is my technique: A) I observe very close airspeed control (between 75 and 80 knots indicated for my airplane) during the landing approach. 75 KIAS is OK if the airplane is light. B) I fly a very flat approach and set my engine RPM between 1200 and 1300 late in the approach. C) During the landing flare I try to never raise the nose above the far end of the runway or a spot on the horizon beyond the far end of the runway. D) If I do reduce the engine power any further during the landing flare it is very gradually and very close to main landing gear touch down. OC PS: Hang in there with building the Glastar. We have a few that have been built in our EAA Chapter and the owners are happy with them. This is Jesse Wright, I am flying my Kis TR-1 on final at about 80 indicated. I was not at all comfortable doing this until I reset the flaps and ailerons. I stretched a string from front to back on the wing and found about a =BD=94 gap at the hinge line. I think this was planned but I am re-doing the trailing edge so the string touches at the hinge line. This means changing the wing fillets and wing tips trailing edge. I have experimented landing with half flaps and am experiencing a little float near touch down. Before doing this it dropped through and banged on the runway. Am I dreaming or does everyone else have their trailing edge lowered. I don=92t care about top speed any more, I want a soft touch down. Any comments? Jesse Wright ============ From: Julian Bone Sent: Monday, June 02, 2014 8:04 AM Subject: RE: Mishap Hi Owen Thanks for the email. I damaged the KIS in a minor overrun landing approx ten years ago and decided not to repair it. Visibility is poor on approach at the correct speed as the direction of travel is through the floor, it really does need an airbrake to lower the nose or more attack on the wing, mine was set to 3 degrees as I remember. Climbout is also pretty poor as designed. I guess I just got tired of it! I regret not repairing it but having had a number of near misses I decided enough was enough. I am nearing completion of a Glastar, however it is a ludicrously complex kit compared to the KIS! The doors are unbelievably overbuilt. The KIS was a more fun aeroplane but a pig to land in extreme circumstances. I hope you are well. Regards Julian _____ From: Owen Baker [mailto:bakerocb@cox.net] Sent: 31 May 2014 12:01 Subject: Mishap 5/31/2014 Hello Julian, Sorry to hear about the mishap with your KIS. Can you please tell me anything about the circumstances? Thanks, OC PS: Are you on any Glasair builders internet list? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.