Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:15 AM - Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure (Keith.Miller@esa.int)
2. 05:46 AM - Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure (Galin Hernandez)
3. 06:23 AM - Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure (mark_trickel)
4. 09:29 AM - Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure (Scott Stearns)
5. 07:48 PM - Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure (Mark Kettering)
6. 08:01 PM - Oshkosh (Mark Kettering)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure |
Galin,
I know how your feeling , since i had a nose gear failure on my KIS (2)
just after i completed her . It was a very bad nights sleep for me , and
even worse after the insurance man turned up , since it doesn't take much
for the insurance company to consider a right off , but i was not accepting
that and made a deal with them to settle for a lower amount plus the plane
back . in the end it took an engine strip down and rebuild, new Prop, a new
nose gear from Lyle ,a bit of glass fibre and paint and she has been flying
great for the last 11 years. The engine strip down showed no internal
damage and was completed for just 3500 pounds ( 5.5K$). it took me 6 months
to get back in the air but i ended up about 6 K pounds in profit . i would
be surprised if there was any damage to the firewall from a slow taxi nose
gear failure.
The good thing is that the airframe and wings were not damaged, take the
wings off , rent a trailer and get her home and into the workshop , pour
yourself a stiff drink and make a list of what is required to get back in
the air
Engine strip and rebuild( 6K), (plus maybe 2K for parts).
New Prop and spinner (8K)
New Nose gear (1K)
Bit of paint ( 1K )
Repairs to the cowling (1K)
Labour ( if you can't do it yourself ) 5K max
Seriously consider making a deal with the insurance to get back the plane
if they tell you it's scrap . even if you cant do the work yourself there
are plenty of people out there with the skill who can.
Does any body know if Lyle is still making parts ? and does anyone want up
update/ correct my estimates above .
Keith
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
To: "kis-list@matronics.com" <kis-list@matronics.com>,
Date: 07/23/2014 06:41 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
The RV-10 nosegear looks like it would be a possible conversion, if vans will
sell them... Or a taildragger conversion....
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_1BUCUXrqtsE/TJqBGCqCJYI/AAAAAAAAAR8/eL7IweRFt3A/s800/rv-10.jpg
Scott
On Jul 22, 2014, at 4:28 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
I am not smart enough to design anything like that on my own. If it was
electrical or electronic THAT I can do. ;)
On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Conners, Jerry L <
jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote:
I would design myself and then have it fabricated in a manner that
Lyle has done in the pastno short cuts in the construction and using
Paul Lamars worst case math to determine the loads on impact.
From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:53 PM
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
Jerry; Do you know where to get a "new and improved" nose gear? One
rated for about 150,000lbs? ;)
On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Conners, Jerry L <
jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote:
The damage looks minimaltear down inspection being the most costly
repair (with resulting needed replacement parts)then a new and
improved new nose gearhope the aircraft returns to the air soon
From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:44 PM
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
With it being insured at only $75,000, it might wind up being more
than 50% just to repair it. If I do part it out, a GREAT plug-n-play
instrument panel for a TR-4 will be available real soon.
;)
On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com>
wrote:
So sorry to hear this Galin. It doesn't look bad enough to part-out
but I know how insurance companies are.
Al Rosa
On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
wrote:
Yesterday, after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed
just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were
super smooth, which is not very common for me. I am not a mechanical
engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminary
check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When
I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then
failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left.
Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold
the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed.
The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it would
have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since I
taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened on the runway so
now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well in
aviation".
Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair than
the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they are
going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or to
part the airplane out.
Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway.
:(
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure |
THANKS for the info. I am meeting with a mechanic today for his opinion. I
have decided not to do the work myself (too emotionally involved) and have
an impartial person help me with the decision. At least the airplane is in
my hangar already so there is no need to move it.
I don't think it will be written off as a total loss but lets see what
happens. I like the idea of maybe using the RV-10 nose gear but am afraid
it might be too heavy making the nose drop during landing even more
pronounced.
On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 4:15 AM, <Keith.Miller@esa.int> wrote:
>
> Galin,
>
> I know how your feeling , since i had a nose gear failure on my KIS (2)
> just after i completed her . It was a very bad nights sleep for me , an
d
> even worse after the insurance man turned up , since it doesn't take muc
h
> for the insurance company to consider a right off , but i was not
> accepting
> that and made a deal with them to settle for a lower amount plus the plan
e
> back . in the end it took an engine strip down and rebuild, new Prop, a
> new
> nose gear from Lyle ,a bit of glass fibre and paint and she has been
> flying
> great for the last 11 years. The engine strip down showed no interna
l
> damage and was completed for just 3500 pounds ( 5.5K$). it took me 6
> months
> to get back in the air but i ended up about 6 K pounds in profit . i
> would
> be surprised if there was any damage to the firewall from a slow taxi
> nose
> gear failure.
> The good thing is that the airframe and wings were not damaged, take the
> wings off , rent a trailer and get her home and into the workshop , pou
r
> yourself a stiff drink and make a list of what is required to get back i
n
> the air
> Engine strip and rebuild( 6K), (plus maybe 2K for parts).
> New Prop and spinner (8K)
> New Nose gear (1K)
> Bit of paint ( 1K )
> Repairs to the cowling (1K)
> Labour ( if you can't do it yourself ) 5K max
>
> Seriously consider making a deal with the insurance to get back the
> plane
> if they tell you it's scrap . even if you cant do the work yourself ther
e
> are plenty of people out there with the skill who can.
>
> Does any body know if Lyle is still making parts ? and does anyone want
> up
> update/ correct my estimates above .
>
> Keith
>
>
> From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
> To: "kis-list@matronics.com" <kis-list@matronics.com>,
> Date: 07/23/2014 06:41 AM
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
> Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
>
>
> The RV-10 nosegear looks like it would be a possible conversion, if vans
> will
> sell them... Or a taildragger conversion....
>
>
> http://lh5.ggpht.com/_1BUCUXrqtsE/TJqBGCqCJYI/AAAAAAAAAR8/eL7IweRFt3A/s80
0/rv-10.jpg
>
> Scott
>
> On Jul 22, 2014, at 4:28 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am not smart enough to design anything like that on my own. If it
> was
> electrical or electronic THAT I can do. ;)
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Conners, Jerry L <
> jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote:
> I would design myself and then have it fabricated in a manner tha
t
> Lyle has done in the pastno short cuts in the constructi
on and
> using
> Paul Lamar=99s worst case math to determine the loads on im
pact.
>
>
> From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez
> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:53 PM
>
>
> To: kis-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
>
>
> Jerry; Do you know where to get a "new and improved" nose gear? O
ne
> rated for about 150,000lbs? ;)
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Conners, Jerry L <
> jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote:
>
>
> The damage looks minimaltear down inspection being the m
ost costly
> repair (with resulting needed replacement parts)then a n
ew and
> improved new nose gearhope the aircraft returns to the a
ir soon
>
>
> From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez
> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:44 PM
> To: kis-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
>
>
> With it being insured at only $75,000, it might wind up being mor
e
> than 50% just to repair it. If I do part it out, a GREAT
> plug-n-play
> instrument panel for a TR-4 will be available real soon.
>
>
> ;)
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com
>
> wrote:
>
>
> So sorry to hear this Galin. It doesn't look bad enough to
> part-out
> but I know how insurance companies are.
>
>
> Al Rosa
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Galin Hernandez <
> galinhdz@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> Yesterday, after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed
> just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) we
re
> super smooth, which is not very common for me. I am not a
> mechanical
> engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminar
y
> check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed.
> When
> I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then
> failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the
> left.
> Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't ho
ld
> the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed.
>
>
> The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it woul
d
> have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since
I
> taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened on the runway s
o
> now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well i
n
> aviation".
>
>
> Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair
> than
> the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they
> are
> going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or t
o
> part the airplane out.
>
>
> Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway.
>
>
> :(
>
>
> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> =============
>
>
> IS-List Email Forum -
>
>
> u>
>
>
> >
>
>
> tor?KIS-List" target="_blank">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
>
>
> =============
>
>
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>
>
> u>
>
>
> rget="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
> =============
>
>
> - List Contribution Web Site -
>
>
> /pre> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
> bution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> =============
>
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> This communication, including any attachments, may contain
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| Subject: | Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure |
Hello Galin,
Words cannot express how sorry I am to learn of your nose gear failure. I know
you have invested a lot of time, effort, and funds into you airplane, and I would
sure hate to see it end up in the total out column. As bad as you may fell
at the present it does not appear to me to be a total loss. I am surprised that
no excessive wear showed up in the gear linkage when you had it off the airplane
during your broken exhaust incident. Denise F. from Texas, bought a new
nose gear from Lyle a little over a year ago, the cost was $2800.00. You may want
to consider having Lyle increase the bolt size on the linkage.
Mark T.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427202#427202
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure |
Hi Galin,
Good to hear the airplane is back in the hangar. At least this happened cl
ose to home.
The RV-10 gear may not be any heavier. The cruiser nosegear is nearly 40 lb
s. A grumman tiger gear may work too if you can find one. The AL prop is p
retty heavy. You could save 15+ lbs off the nose by going to the whirlwind g
round adjustable prop and be able to tweek the pitch for best performance.
I am sure everyone is very interested in seeing more detailed pictures when y
ou are ready for that.
Scott
> On Jul 23, 2014, at 6:45 AM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> THANKS for the info. I am meeting with a mechanic today for his opinion. I
have decided not to do the work myself (too emotionally involved) and have a
n impartial person help me with the decision. At least the airplane is in my
hangar already so there is no need to move it.
>
> I don't think it will be written off as a total loss but lets see what hap
pens. I like the idea of maybe using the RV-10 nose gear but am afraid it mi
ght be too heavy making the nose drop during landing even more pronounced.
>
>
>> On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 4:15 AM, <Keith.Miller@esa.int> wrote:
>>
>> Galin,
>>
>> I know how your feeling , since i had a nose gear failure on my KIS (2)
>> just after i completed her . It was a very bad nights sleep for me , an
d
>> even worse after the insurance man turned up , since it doesn't take muc
h
>> for the insurance company to consider a right off , but i was not accept
ing
>> that and made a deal with them to settle for a lower amount plus the plan
e
>> back . in the end it took an engine strip down and rebuild, new Prop, a
new
>> nose gear from Lyle ,a bit of glass fibre and paint and she has been fly
ing
>> great for the last 11 years. The engine strip down showed no interna
l
>> damage and was completed for just 3500 pounds ( 5.5K$). it took me 6 mo
nths
>> to get back in the air but i ended up about 6 K pounds in profit . i wo
uld
>> be surprised if there was any damage to the firewall from a slow taxi n
ose
>> gear failure.
>> The good thing is that the airframe and wings were not damaged, take the
>> wings off , rent a trailer and get her home and into the workshop , pou
r
>> yourself a stiff drink and make a list of what is required to get back i
n
>> the air
>> Engine strip and rebuild( 6K), (plus maybe 2K for parts).
>> New Prop and spinner (8K)
>> New Nose gear (1K)
>> Bit of paint ( 1K )
>> Repairs to the cowling (1K)
>> Labour ( if you can't do it yourself ) 5K max
>>
>> Seriously consider making a deal with the insurance to get back the pl
ane
>> if they tell you it's scrap . even if you cant do the work yourself ther
e
>> are plenty of people out there with the skill who can.
>>
>> Does any body know if Lyle is still making parts ? and does anyone want
up
>> update/ correct my estimates above .
>>
>> Keith
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
>> To: "kis-list@matronics.com" <kis-list@matronics.com>,
>> Date: 07/23/2014 06:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
>> Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>> The RV-10 nosegear looks like it would be a possible conversion, if vans w
ill
>> sell them... Or a taildragger conversion....
>>
>> http://lh5.ggpht.com/_1BUCUXrqtsE/TJqBGCqCJYI/AAAAAAAAAR8/eL7IweRFt3A/s80
0/rv-10.jpg
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> On Jul 22, 2014, at 4:28 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I am not smart enough to design anything like that on my own. If it
was
>> electrical or electronic THAT I can do. ;)
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Conners, Jerry L <
>> jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote:
>> I would design myself and then have it fabricated in a manner tha
t
>> Lyle has done in the pastno short cuts in the constructi
on and using
>> Paul Lamar=99s worst case math to determine the loads on im
pact.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:53 PM
>>
>>
>>
>> To: kis-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jerry; Do you know where to get a "new and improved" nose gear? O
ne
>> rated for about 150,000lbs? ;)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Conners, Jerry L <
>> jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote:
>>
>>
>> The damage looks minimaltear down inspection being the m
ost costly
>> repair (with resulting needed replacement parts)then a n
ew and
>> improved new nose gearhope the aircraft returns to the a
ir soon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:44 PM
>> To: kis-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> With it being insured at only $75,000, it might wind up being mor
e
>> than 50% just to repair it. If I do part it out, a GREAT plug-n-p
lay
>> instrument panel for a TR-4 will be available real soon.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ;)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com
>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> So sorry to hear this Galin. It doesn't look bad enough to part-
out
>> but I know how insurance companies are.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Al Rosa
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.
com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Yesterday, after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed
>> just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) we
re
>> super smooth, which is not very common for me. I am not a mechani
cal
>> engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminar
y
>> check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. W
hen
>> I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then
>> failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the le
ft.
>> Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't ho
ld
>> the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it woul
d
>> have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since I
>> taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened on the runway s
o
>> now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well i
n
>> aviation".
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair t
han
>> the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they a
re
>> going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or t
o
>> part the airplane out.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> :(
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> =============
>>
>>
>> IS-List Email Forum -
>>
>>
>> u>
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>>
>> tor?KIS-List" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
>>
>>
>> =============
>>
>>
>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>>
>>
>> u>
>>
>>
>> rget="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>>
>> =============
>>
>>
>> - List Contribution Web Site -
>>
>>
>> /pre> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>
>>
>> bution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>> =============
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This communication, including any attachments, may contain
>> confidential information and is intended only for the individual o
r
>> entity to whom it is addressed. Any review, dissemination or copy
ing
>> of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient
is
>> strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, pleas
e
>> contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of the
>> original message.
>>
>>
>> =C2=AD=C2=AD
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> ============== IS-List Email Forum - u
> > tor?KIS-List"
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
>> ============== - MATRONICS WEB FO
RUMS - u> rget="_blank">
>> http://forums.matronics.com =============
= - List Contribution Web
>> Site - /pre> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. bution
"
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ===
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> This communication, including any attachments, may contain
>> confidential information and is intended only for the individual o
r
>> entity to whom it is addressed. Any review, dissemination or copy
ing
>> of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient
is
>> strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, pleas
e
>> contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of the
>> original message.
>>
>>
>> =C2=AD=C2=AD
>>
>>
>>
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
>>
>> ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
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=3D
>>
>> //forums.matronics.com
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
>>
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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>>
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>>
>>
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>> This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addresse
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>> The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in who
le or in part) of its
>> content is not permitted.
>> If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delet
e it from your system.
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der.
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>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
>> ==========
>> MS -
>> k">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> e -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>
>
>
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>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure |
Hello Galin,
I have seen quotes from under $2000 to about $4000 for a tear down and inspection
on a certified IO-360 so while not cheap it is not too expensive.
I know I am about to sound like a broken record but the issue with the nose gear
is the main gear placement. As designed and as most are built the main gear
is WAY too far back. This places much more load on the nose gear and contributes
to nose slam and Pilot induced oscillation. Currently the TR-4 has about
33% of the weight on the nose gear empty. At no time should it be over 25% (most
forward CG) and typically should be about 10% at mid aft CG. At far aft
CG it should be in the single digits. Actually if you load to absolute aft CG
and push the tail to the ground it should almost or even stay there.
Everyone, move your main gear forward to save your nose gear, engine and prop.
This is an easy and cheap change and I know you will love it once you have done
it. And so will your nose gear.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Galin Hernandez
Sent: Jul 23, 2014 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
THANKS for the info. I am meeting with a mechanic today for his opinion. I have
decided not to do the work myself (too emotionally involved) and have an impartial
person help me with the decision. At least the airplane is in my hangar
already so there is no need to move it.
I don't think it will be written off as a total loss but lets see what happens.
I like the idea of maybe using the RV-10 nose gear but am afraid it might be
too heavy making the nose drop during landing even more pronounced.
On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 4:15 AM, <Keith.Miller@esa.int> wrote:
Galin,
I know how your feeling , since i had a nose gear failure on my KIS (2)
just after i completed her . It was a very bad nights sleep for me , and
even worse after the insurance man turned up , since it doesn't take much
for the insurance company to consider a right off , but i was not accepting
that and made a deal with them to settle for a lower amount plus the plane
back . in the end it took an engine strip down and rebuild, new Prop, a new
nose gear from Lyle ,a bit of glass fibre and paint and she has been flying
great for the last 11 years. The engine strip down showed no internal
damage and was completed for just 3500 pounds ( 5.5K$). it took me 6 months
to get back in the air but i ended up about 6 K pounds in profit . i would
be surprised if there was any damage to the firewall from a slow taxi nose
gear failure.
The good thing is that the airframe and wings were not damaged, take the
wings off , rent a trailer and get her home and into the workshop , pour
yourself a stiff drink and make a list of what is required to get back in
the air
Engine strip and rebuild( 6K), (plus maybe 2K for parts).
New Prop and spinner (8K)
New Nose gear (1K)
Bit of paint ( 1K )
Repairs to the cowling (1K)
Labour ( if you can't do it yourself ) 5K max
Seriously consider making a deal with the insurance to get back the plane
if they tell you it's scrap . even if you cant do the work yourself there
are plenty of people out there with the skill who can.
Does any body know if Lyle is still making parts ? and does anyone want up
update/ correct my estimates above .
Keith
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
The RV-10 nosegear looks like it would be a possible conversion, if vans will
sell them... Or a taildragger conversion....
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_1BUCUXrqtsE/TJqBGCqCJYI/AAAAAAAAAR8/eL7IweRFt3A/s800/rv-10.jpg
Scott
On Jul 22, 2014, at 4:28 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
I am not smart enough to design anything like that on my own. If it was
electrical or electronic THAT I can do. ;)
On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Conners, Jerry L <
jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote:
I would design myself and then have it fabricated in a manner that
Lyle has done in the pastno short cuts in the construction and using
Paul Lamars worst case math to determine the loads on impact.
From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:53 PM
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
Jerry; Do you know where to get a "new and improved" nose gear? One
rated for about 150,000lbs? ;)
On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Conners, Jerry L <
jconners@dot.state.nv.us> wrote:
The damage looks minimaltear down inspection being the most costly
repair (with resulting needed replacement parts)then a new and
improved new nose gearhope the aircraft returns to the air soon
From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 1:44 PM
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
With it being insured at only $75,000, it might wind up being more
than 50% just to repair it. If I do part it out, a GREAT plug-n-play
instrument panel for a TR-4 will be available real soon.
;)
On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com>
wrote:
So sorry to hear this Galin. It doesn't look bad enough to part-out
but I know how insurance companies are.
Al Rosa
On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
wrote:
Yesterday, after a day of flying, the nose gear on my TR-4 failed
just before I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were
super smooth, which is not very common for me. I am not a mechanical
engineer and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express but preliminary
check looks like the front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When
I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then
failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left.
Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold
the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed.
The worst part is if I would have taken the previous exit it would
have happened on the non-movement area of the airport. But since I
taxied to an exit closer to my hangar it happened on the runway so
now the FAA is involved. Like I said, "Murphy is alive and well in
aviation".
Depending on the firewall condition it could cost more to repair than
the insured value. When the insurance company tells me what they are
going to do about the claim I will make a decision to repair or to
part the airplane out.
Here are some photo's of the airplane on the runway.
:(
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=============
IS-List Email Forum -
u>
>
tor?KIS-List" target="_blank">
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
=============
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
u>
rget="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
=============
- List Contribution Web Site -
/pre> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
bution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=============
This communication, including any attachments, may contain
confidential information and is intended only for the individual or
entity to whom it is addressed. Any review, dissemination or copying
of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient is
strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of the
original message.
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target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
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Site - /pre> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. bution"
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ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
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==========
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==========
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==========
Message 6
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Mark Trickel and I will be in booth 444 at Oshkosh. This is just east of the control
tower. Maybe Scott will have his plane at our space!
Sorry to out you Mark T!
Mark Kettering
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