Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:25 AM - Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure (Alfred Rosa)
2. 04:55 AM - Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure (fasilpereira)
3. 05:55 AM - Re: Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure (Galin Hernandez)
4. 08:04 AM - Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure (Galin Hernandez)
5. 08:04 AM - Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure (Galin Hernandez)
6. 08:22 AM - Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure (Alfred Rosa)
7. 08:36 AM - Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure (Galin Hernandez)
8. 08:07 PM - KIS TR-1 Flap Sectors (Owen Baker)
9. 11:01 PM - Official KIS-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
10. 11:05 PM - Official KIS-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure |
Galin,
I'm having a hard time trying to understand what you mean by the rear pin. M
y H bracket connects to the firewall brackets with two bolts.
Al
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 31, 2014, at 10:38 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I contacted CATTO Props today but they are all at OSH so if somebody gets t
o talk to them ask about a 3 bladed composite for a KIS4 with Lycoming O360 1
80HP engine. :)
>
> Now for the ongoing nose gear saga:
> It turns out the rear pin on the nose gear assembly sheared which caused t
he gear to collapse. The shear was clean and it was obvious (corrosion) the p
in had started breaking well before the failure. It sheared right where the "
H" bracket meets the firewall bracket and this explains why the visual inspe
ction done during the annual did not find it. To see the problem happening y
ou have to remove the pin there is no other way to inspect the area. I recom
mend everyone pull and check their rear "H" bracket pin to see if they are e
xperiencing the same issue or not. If you do please let us know what your fi
nd, good or bad, so if there is a trend we can identify it.
>
> I plan to pull and inspect the new pin after 50hr or 50 landing (whichever
comes first) and at the annual. If I experience a bad shimmy at any time (d
ue to over grease or lack of friction) I will pull and inspect the pin since
this places a lot of stress on that specific part of that pin. After a few i
nspections I will decide if it needs to be inspected on a continuous basis o
r I just got a bad pin. I am also contemplating having the new pin made from
steel instead of aluminum even with the dissimilar metal corrosion issue. S
teel or aluminum I will do the above inspections no matter what the pin is e
ventually made from.
>
>
>
>
>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Tim Yoder <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com> wrote
:
>> Galin,
>>
>> You might talk to Scott Stearns, he had a Prince prop on his carbon TR-1C
with a 220 HP O-360 and has changed to a different prop. A friend got a thr
ee blade Catto for his RV7 that took six months to get but he likes it. The P
rince P-Tip is not the most efficient design and I'm sure you know that two b
lades are more efficient than three, as Bob mentioned, assuming you have gro
und clearance. I also believe that MT has a mandatory 10 yr. overhaul on it'
s adjustable props. That cost allot also.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 1:08 PM
>> To: kis-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
>>
>> THANKS for the info Bob.
>>
>> Is anybody running a fixed pitch composite 3 bladed prop on a TR-4? I wan
t some basic inputs from actual use before I make a decision. MT, Prince and
even Sensenich are high on my list.
>>
>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:26 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote:
>>> Galin,
>>>
>>> Catto didn't have a model number for the prop, he basically did a custom
based on engine horsepower, RPM, and airspeed for the aircraft. He also in
cluded desired two blade or three blade configuration. I went with three bl
ade out of desire to have quite operation over power performance because of S
haron's migraines. Catto now has the leading edge protection on his props.
>>>
>>> I looked at Prince and can't remember why I excluded them but it seems t
hat their prop wasn't rated for the Lycoming 360 engine at that time. I als
o looked at MT Props but they were a bit on the expensive side as I recall.
I really liked their electric constant speed option though and would probab
ly have gone with that if money weren't a primary concern.
>>>
>>> Hope that helps,
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
>>> To: "kis-list@matronics.com" <kis-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 1:08 PM
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
>>>
>>> Bob; What model prop did you wind up buying from Catto? Does it have a p
articular model number/designation?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
>>> 7/24/2014
>>>
>>> Hello Galin, You wrote: =9C.... composite props and rain don't mix
very well....=9D
>>>
>>> Would you consider a prince propeller with leading edge protection?
>>>
>>> http://www.princeaircraft.com/
>>>
>>> OC
>>>
>>> ========================
=========
>>>
>>> From: Galin Hernandez
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 8:46 AM
>>> To: kis-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
>>>
>>> Initial check by the mechanic indicates no firewall damage at all, so th
e actual damage is not a big deal. Engine will be completely overhauled, a n
ew nose gear installed, a new propeller installed, some fiberglass work done
and the airplane will be better than before. The airplane is a whole lot st
ronger than it looks.
>>>
>>> The rear pin on the landing gear "H" bracket broke letting the entire as
sembly rotate 180 degrees backwards. Once this happened the main tube held u
p for a little bit but eventually collapsed under the different stress. I wi
ll ask Lyle if he can make the landing gear rear pin a little bigger to bett
er withstand the landing loads.
>>>
>>> I will definitely look at moving the main gear an inch or two further fo
rward but not sure if it can be done at this stage. The other option is to g
o with a CATTO composite prop, which is lighter than the SENSENICH aluminum p
rop I have, but composite props and rain don't mix very well and I fly real I
MC.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
>>>
>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.matro://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofol
low">http://forums.=========
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
>> ics.com
>> .matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus prot
ection is active.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
>>
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
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| Subject: | Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure |
Galin,
Looking at your website I can see that you have removed the pin when you had the
broken exhaust issue. Am I right?
Couldn't you see the pin damage at that time?
Did you installed a new pin? If not, do you think that the pin may have been damaged
due to hot exhaust blast?
Fabricio
--------
Fabricio Pereira
Engineer / Pilot
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427694#427694
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure |
I replaced the old pin with a new one after the exhaust problem. It was the
new one that failed after only 110hrs and 115 landings.
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 7:55 AM, fasilpereira <fasilpereira@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Galin,
>
> Looking at your website I can see that you have removed the pin when you
> had the broken exhaust issue. Am I right?
> Couldn't you see the pin damage at that time?
> Did you installed a new pin? If not, do you think that the pin may have
> been damaged due to hot exhaust blast?
>
> Fabricio
>
> --------
> Fabricio Pereira
> Engineer / Pilot
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427694#427694
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure |
Al; Here is a photo of the "H" bracket where you can see the rear aluminum
pin just underneath the fuselage.
Can you send a photo of your set up? I wonder if they changed the design
and now use 2 steel bolts instead of one aluminum pin. This would really
strengthen the point where the "H" bracket connect to the firewall brackets
which is what I was thinking with my idea of a steel pin.
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 6:24 AM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com> wrote:
> Galin,
> I'm having a hard time trying to understand what you mean by the rear pin
.
> My H bracket connects to the firewall brackets with two bolts.
> Al
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 31, 2014, at 10:38 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I contacted CATTO Props today but they are all at OSH so if somebody gets
> to talk to them ask about a 3 bladed composite for a KIS4 with Lycoming
> O360 180HP engine. :)
>
> Now for the ongoing nose gear saga:
> It turns out the rear pin on the nose gear assembly sheared which caused
> the gear to collapse. The shear was clean and it was obvious (corrosion)
> the pin had started breaking well before the failure. It sheared right
> where the "H" bracket meets the firewall bracket and this explains why th
e
> visual inspection done during the annual did not find it. To see the
> problem happening you have to remove the pin there is no other way to
> inspect the area. I recommend everyone pull and check their rear "H"
> bracket pin to see if they are experiencing the same issue or not. If you
> do please let us know what your find, good or bad, so if there is a trend
> we can identify it.
>
> I plan to pull and inspect the new pin after 50hr or 50 landing (whicheve
r
> comes first) and at the annual. If I experience a bad shimmy at any time
> (due to over grease or lack of friction) I will pull and inspect the pin
> since this places a lot of stress on that specific part of that pin. Afte
r
> a few inspections I will decide if it needs to be inspected on a continuo
us
> basis or I just got a bad pin. I am also contemplating having the new pin
> made from steel instead of aluminum even with the dissimilar metal
> corrosion issue. Steel or aluminum I will do the above inspections no
> matter what the pin is eventually made from.
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Tim Yoder <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com> wrote
:
>
>> Galin,
>>
>> You might talk to Scott Stearns, he had a Prince prop on his carbon
>> TR-1C with a 220 HP O-360 and has changed to a different prop. A friend
got
>> a three blade Catto for his RV7 that took six months to get but he likes
>> it. The Prince P-Tip is not the most efficient design and I'm sure you k
now
>> that two blades are more efficient than three, as Bob mentioned, assumin
g
>> you have ground clearance. I also believe that MT has a mandatory 10 yr.
>> overhaul on it's adjustable props. That cost allot also.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Galin Hernandez
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 1:08 PM
>> *To:* kis-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
>>
>> THANKS for the info Bob.
>>
>> Is anybody running a fixed pitch composite 3 bladed prop on a TR-4? I
>> want some basic inputs from actual use before I make a decision. MT, Pri
nce
>> and even Sensenich are high on my list.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:26 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Galin,
>>>
>>> Catto didn't have a model number for the prop, he basically did a custo
m
>>> based on engine horsepower, RPM, and airspeed for the aircraft. He als
o
>>> included desired two blade or three blade configuration. I went with t
hree
>>> blade out of desire to have quite operation over power performance beca
use
>>> of Sharon's migraines. Catto now has the leading edge protection on hi
s
>>> props.
>>>
>>> I looked at Prince and can't remember why I excluded them but it seems
>>> that their prop wasn't rated for the Lycoming 360 engine at that time.
I
>>> also looked at MT Props but they were a bit on the expensive side as I
>>> recall. I really liked their electric constant speed option though and
>>> would probably have gone with that if money weren't a primary concern.
>>>
>>> Hope that helps,
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
>>> *To:* "kis-list@matronics.com" <kis-list@matronics.com>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 1:08 PM
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
>>>
>>> Bob; What model prop did you wind up buying from Catto? Does it have a
>>> particular model number/designation?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> 7/24/2014
>>>
>>> Hello Galin, You wrote: =9C.... composite props and rain don't mi
x very
>>> well....=9D
>>>
>>> Would you consider a prince propeller with leading edge protection?
>>>
>>> http://www.princeaircraft.com/
>>>
>>> OC
>>>
>>> =======================
>>>
>>> *From:* Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 24, 2014 8:46 AM
>>> *To:* kis-list@matronics.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
>>>
>>> Initial check by the mechanic indicates no firewall damage at all, so
>>> the actual damage is not a big deal. Engine will be completely overhaul
ed,
>>> a new nose gear installed, a new propeller installed, some fiberglass w
ork
>>> done and the airplane will be better than before. The airplane is a who
le
>>> lot stronger than it looks.
>>>
>>> The rear pin on the landing gear "H" bracket broke letting the entire
>>> assembly rotate 180 degrees backwards. Once this happened the main tube
>>> held up for a little bit but eventually collapsed under the different
>>> stress. I will ask Lyle if he can make the landing gear rear pin a litt
le
>>> bigger to better withstand the landing loads.
>>>
>>> I will definitely look at moving the main gear an inch or two further
>>> forward but not sure if it can be done at this stage. The other option
is
>>> to go with a CATTO composite prop, which is lighter than the SENSENICH
>>> aluminum prop I have, but composite props and rain don't mix very well
and
>>> I fly real IMC.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List <http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List>
>>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com
/contribution>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *http://www.matro:// <http://www.matro://>forums.matronics.com/ <http:/
/forums.matronics.com/>" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.
<http://forums.>=========
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List <http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List>
>>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com
/contribution>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>> *
>>
>> ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List <http://www.matronics.com/Naviga
tor?KIS-List>
>> ics.com <http://ics.com>
>> .matronics.com/contribution <http://matronics.com/contribution>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> <http://www.avast.com/>
>>
>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>> <http://www.avast.com/> protection is active.
>>
>> *
>>
>> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List <http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List>
>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/
contribution>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
> *
>
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
> ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List <http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?KIS-List>
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
> //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/cont
ribution>
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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=3D
>
> *
>
> *
>
===========
nics.com/Navigator?KIS-List>
===========
===========
om/contribution>
===========
>
> *
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure |
Al: Can you send a photo of your set up? I wonder if they changed the
design and now use 2 steel bolts instead of one aluminum pin. This would
really strengthen the point where the "H" bracket connect to the firewall
brackets which is what I was thinking with my idea of a steel pin.
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote
:
> Al; Here is a photo of the "H" bracket where you can see the rear aluminu
m
> pin just underneath the fuselage.
>
> Can you send a photo of your set up? I wonder if they changed the design
> and now use 2 steel bolts instead of one aluminum pin. This would really
> strengthen the point where the "H" bracket connect to the firewall bracke
ts
> which is what I was thinking with my idea of a steel pin.
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 6:24 AM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Galin,
>> I'm having a hard time trying to understand what you mean by the rear
>> pin. My H bracket connects to the firewall brackets with two bolts.
>> Al
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 31, 2014, at 10:38 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote
:
>>
>> I contacted CATTO Props today but they are all at OSH so if somebody get
s
>> to talk to them ask about a 3 bladed composite for a KIS4 with Lycoming
>> O360 180HP engine. :)
>>
>> Now for the ongoing nose gear saga:
>> It turns out the rear pin on the nose gear assembly sheared which caused
>> the gear to collapse. The shear was clean and it was obvious (corrosion)
>> the pin had started breaking well before the failure. It sheared right
>> where the "H" bracket meets the firewall bracket and this explains why t
he
>> visual inspection done during the annual did not find it. To see the
>> problem happening you have to remove the pin there is no other way to
>> inspect the area. I recommend everyone pull and check their rear "H"
>> bracket pin to see if they are experiencing the same issue or not. If yo
u
>> do please let us know what your find, good or bad, so if there is a tren
d
>> we can identify it.
>>
>> I plan to pull and inspect the new pin after 50hr or 50 landing
>> (whichever comes first) and at the annual. If I experience a bad shimmy
at
>> any time (due to over grease or lack of friction) I will pull and inspec
t
>> the pin since this places a lot of stress on that specific part of that
>> pin. After a few inspections I will decide if it needs to be inspected o
n a
>> continuous basis or I just got a bad pin. I am also contemplating having
>> the new pin made from steel instead of aluminum even with the dissimilar
>> metal corrosion issue. Steel or aluminum I will do the above inspections
no
>> matter what the pin is eventually made from.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Tim Yoder <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Galin,
>>>
>>> You might talk to Scott Stearns, he had a Prince prop on his carbon
>>> TR-1C with a 220 HP O-360 and has changed to a different prop. A friend
got
>>> a three blade Catto for his RV7 that took six months to get but he like
s
>>> it. The Prince P-Tip is not the most efficient design and I'm sure you
know
>>> that two blades are more efficient than three, as Bob mentioned, assumi
ng
>>> you have ground clearance. I also believe that MT has a mandatory 10 yr
.
>>> overhaul on it's adjustable props. That cost allot also.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
>>> owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Galin Hernandez
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 1:08 PM
>>> *To:* kis-list@matronics.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
>>>
>>> THANKS for the info Bob.
>>>
>>> Is anybody running a fixed pitch composite 3 bladed prop on a TR-4? I
>>> want some basic inputs from actual use before I make a decision. MT, Pr
ince
>>> and even Sensenich are high on my list.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:26 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote
:
>>>
>>>> Galin,
>>>>
>>>> Catto didn't have a model number for the prop, he basically did a
>>>> custom based on engine horsepower, RPM, and airspeed for the aircraft.
He
>>>> also included desired two blade or three blade configuration. I went
with
>>>> three blade out of desire to have quite operation over power performan
ce
>>>> because of Sharon's migraines. Catto now has the leading edge protect
ion
>>>> on his props.
>>>>
>>>> I looked at Prince and can't remember why I excluded them but it seems
>>>> that their prop wasn't rated for the Lycoming 360 engine at that time.
I
>>>> also looked at MT Props but they were a bit on the expensive side as I
>>>> recall. I really liked their electric constant speed option though an
d
>>>> would probably have gone with that if money weren't a primary concern.
>>>>
>>>> Hope that helps,
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
>>>> *To:* "kis-list@matronics.com" <kis-list@matronics.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 1:08 PM
>>>>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
>>>>
>>>> Bob; What model prop did you wind up buying from Catto? Does it have
>>>> a particular model number/designation?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 7/24/2014
>>>>
>>>> Hello Galin, You wrote: =9C.... composite props and rain don't m
ix very
>>>> well....=9D
>>>>
>>>> Would you consider a prince propeller with leading edge protection?
>>>>
>>>> http://www.princeaircraft.com/
>>>>
>>>> OC
>>>>
>>>> =======================
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 24, 2014 8:46 AM
>>>> *To:* kis-list@matronics.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
>>>>
>>>> Initial check by the mechanic indicates no firewall damage at all,
>>>> so the actual damage is not a big deal. Engine will be completely
>>>> overhauled, a new nose gear installed, a new propeller installed, some
>>>> fiberglass work done and the airplane will be better than before. The
>>>> airplane is a whole lot stronger than it looks.
>>>>
>>>> The rear pin on the landing gear "H" bracket broke letting the entire
>>>> assembly rotate 180 degrees backwards. Once this happened the main tub
e
>>>> held up for a little bit but eventually collapsed under the different
>>>> stress. I will ask Lyle if he can make the landing gear rear pin a lit
tle
>>>> bigger to better withstand the landing loads.
>>>>
>>>> I will definitely look at moving the main gear an inch or two further
>>>> forward but not sure if it can be done at this stage. The other option
is
>>>> to go with a CATTO composite prop, which is lighter than the SENSENICH
>>>> aluminum prop I have, but composite props and rain don't mix very well
and
>>>> I fly real IMC.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List <http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List>
>>>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.co
m/contribution>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *http://www.matro:// <http://www.matro://>forums.matronics.com/ <http:
//forums.matronics.com/>" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.
<http://forums.>=========
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List <http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List>
>>>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.co
m/contribution>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navig
ator?KIS-List>
>>> ics.com <http://ics.com>
>>> .matronics.com/contribution <http://matronics.com/contribution>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> <http://www.avast.com/>
>>>
>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>>> <http://www.avast.com/> protection is active.
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List <http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List>
>>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com
/contribution>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>> *
>>
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
>> ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List <http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?KIS-List>
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
>> //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/con
tribution>
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
===========
onics.com/Navigator?KIS-List>
===========
===========
com/contribution>
===========
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
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| Subject: | Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure |
Galin, I'm out of town and can't send pictures till I get back in 10 days. M
y H does connect to the firewall brackets with two short AN bolts which are a
lmost impossible to break.
Don't remember if that was the design or my beefing up mod.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 1, 2014, at 11:03 AM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Al; Here is a photo of the "H" bracket where you can see the rear aluminum
pin just underneath the fuselage.
>
> Can you send a photo of your set up? I wonder if they changed the design a
nd now use 2 steel bolts instead of one aluminum pin. This would really stre
ngthen the point where the "H" bracket connect to the firewall brackets whic
h is what I was thinking with my idea of a steel pin.
>
>
>> On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 6:24 AM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Galin,
>> I'm having a hard time trying to understand what you mean by the rear pin
. My H bracket connects to the firewall brackets with two bolts.
>> Al
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jul 31, 2014, at 10:38 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote
:
>>>
>>> I contacted CATTO Props today but they are all at OSH so if somebody get
s to talk to them ask about a 3 bladed composite for a KIS4 with Lycoming O3
60 180HP engine. :)
>>>
>>> Now for the ongoing nose gear saga:
>>> It turns out the rear pin on the nose gear assembly sheared which caused
the gear to collapse. The shear was clean and it was obvious (corrosion) th
e pin had started breaking well before the failure. It sheared right where t
he "H" bracket meets the firewall bracket and this explains why the visual i
nspection done during the annual did not find it. To see the problem happeni
ng you have to remove the pin there is no other way to inspect the area. I r
ecommend everyone pull and check their rear "H" bracket pin to see if they a
re experiencing the same issue or not. If you do please let us know what you
r find, good or bad, so if there is a trend we can identify it.
>>>
>>> I plan to pull and inspect the new pin after 50hr or 50 landing (whichev
er comes first) and at the annual. If I experience a bad shimmy at any time (
due to over grease or lack of friction) I will pull and inspect the pin sinc
e this places a lot of stress on that specific part of that pin. After a few
inspections I will decide if it needs to be inspected on a continuous basis
or I just got a bad pin. I am also contemplating having the new pin made fr
om steel instead of aluminum even with the dissimilar metal corrosion issue.
Steel or aluminum I will do the above inspections no matter what the pin is
eventually made from.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Tim Yoder <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com> wro
te:
>>>> Galin,
>>>>
>>>> You might talk to Scott Stearns, he had a Prince prop on his carbon TR-
1C with a 220 HP O-360 and has changed to a different prop. A friend got a t
hree blade Catto for his RV7 that took six months to get but he likes it. Th
e Prince P-Tip is not the most efficient design and I'm sure you know that t
wo blades are more efficient than three, as Bob mentioned, assuming you have
ground clearance. I also believe that MT has a mandatory 10 yr. overhaul on
it's adjustable props. That cost allot also.
>>>>
>>>> Tim
>>>>
>>>> From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server
@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 1:08 PM
>>>> To: kis-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
>>>>
>>>> THANKS for the info Bob.
>>>>
>>>> Is anybody running a fixed pitch composite 3 bladed prop on a TR-4? I w
ant some basic inputs from actual use before I make a decision. MT, Prince a
nd even Sensenich are high on my list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:26 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrot
e:
>>>>> Galin,
>>>>>
>>>>> Catto didn't have a model number for the prop, he basically did a cust
om based on engine horsepower, RPM, and airspeed for the aircraft. He also i
ncluded desired two blade or three blade configuration. I went with three b
lade out of desire to have quite operation over power performance because of
Sharon's migraines. Catto now has the leading edge protection on his props
.
>>>>>
>>>>> I looked at Prince and can't remember why I excluded them but it seems
that their prop wasn't rated for the Lycoming 360 engine at that time. I a
lso looked at MT Props but they were a bit on the expensive side as I recall
. I really liked their electric constant speed option though and would prob
ably have gone with that if money weren't a primary concern.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope that helps,
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "kis-list@matronics.com" <kis-list@matronics.com>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 1:08 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob; What model prop did you wind up buying from Catto? Does it have a
particular model number/designation?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>> 7/24/2014
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello Galin, You wrote: =9C.... composite props and rain don't m
ix very well....=9D
>>>>>
>>>>> Would you consider a prince propeller with leading edge protection?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.princeaircraft.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> OC
>>>>>
>>>>> ========================
=========
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Galin Hernandez
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 8:46 AM
>>>>> To: kis-list@matronics.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
>>>>>
>>>>> Initial check by the mechanic indicates no firewall damage at all, so t
he actual damage is not a big deal. Engine will be completely overhauled, a n
ew nose gear installed, a new propeller installed, some fiberglass work done
and the airplane will be better than before. The airplane is a whole lot st
ronger than it looks.
>>>>>
>>>>> The rear pin on the landing gear "H" bracket broke letting the entire a
ssembly rotate 180 degrees backwards. Once this happened the main tube held u
p for a little bit but eventually collapsed under the different stress. I wi
ll ask Lyle if he can make the landing gear rear pin a little bigger to
better withstand the landing loads.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will definitely look at moving the main gear an inch or two further f
orward but not sure if it can be done at this stage. The other option is to g
o with a CATTO composite prop, which is lighter than the SENSENICH aluminum p
rop I have, but composite props and rain don't mix very well and I fly real I
MC.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
>>>>>
>>>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.matro://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank" rel="nof
ollow">http://forums.=========
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
>>>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
>>>> ics.com
>>>> .matronics.com/contribution
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus pr
otection is active.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
>>>>
>>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
>>>
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> //forums.matronics.com
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>>
>>
>>
>> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
>>
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>
> <DSCN7212.JPG>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure |
If it was your idea I think you made a wise decision.
On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 11:20 AM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com> wrote:
> Galin, I'm out of town and can't send pictures till I get back in 10 days
.
> My H does connect to the firewall brackets with two short AN bolts which
> are almost impossible to break.
> Don't remember if that was the design or my beefing up mod.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 1, 2014, at 11:03 AM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Al; Here is a photo of the "H" bracket where you can see the rear aluminu
m
> pin just underneath the fuselage.
>
> Can you send a photo of your set up? I wonder if they changed the design
> and now use 2 steel bolts instead of one aluminum pin. This would really
> strengthen the point where the "H" bracket connect to the firewall bracke
ts
> which is what I was thinking with my idea of a steel pin.
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 6:24 AM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Galin,
>> I'm having a hard time trying to understand what you mean by the rear
>> pin. My H bracket connects to the firewall brackets with two bolts.
>> Al
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 31, 2014, at 10:38 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote
:
>>
>> I contacted CATTO Props today but they are all at OSH so if somebody get
s
>> to talk to them ask about a 3 bladed composite for a KIS4 with Lycoming
>> O360 180HP engine. :)
>>
>> Now for the ongoing nose gear saga:
>> It turns out the rear pin on the nose gear assembly sheared which caused
>> the gear to collapse. The shear was clean and it was obvious (corrosion)
>> the pin had started breaking well before the failure. It sheared right
>> where the "H" bracket meets the firewall bracket and this explains why t
he
>> visual inspection done during the annual did not find it. To see the
>> problem happening you have to remove the pin there is no other way to
>> inspect the area. I recommend everyone pull and check their rear "H"
>> bracket pin to see if they are experiencing the same issue or not. If yo
u
>> do please let us know what your find, good or bad, so if there is a tren
d
>> we can identify it.
>>
>> I plan to pull and inspect the new pin after 50hr or 50 landing
>> (whichever comes first) and at the annual. If I experience a bad shimmy
at
>> any time (due to over grease or lack of friction) I will pull and inspec
t
>> the pin since this places a lot of stress on that specific part of that
>> pin. After a few inspections I will decide if it needs to be inspected o
n a
>> continuous basis or I just got a bad pin. I am also contemplating having
>> the new pin made from steel instead of aluminum even with the dissimilar
>> metal corrosion issue. Steel or aluminum I will do the above inspections
no
>> matter what the pin is eventually made from.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Tim Yoder <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Galin,
>>>
>>> You might talk to Scott Stearns, he had a Prince prop on his carbon
>>> TR-1C with a 220 HP O-360 and has changed to a different prop. A friend
got
>>> a three blade Catto for his RV7 that took six months to get but he like
s
>>> it. The Prince P-Tip is not the most efficient design and I'm sure you
know
>>> that two blades are more efficient than three, as Bob mentioned, assumi
ng
>>> you have ground clearance. I also believe that MT has a mandatory 10 yr
.
>>> overhaul on it's adjustable props. That cost allot also.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
>>> owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Galin Hernandez
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 1:08 PM
>>> *To:* kis-list@matronics.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
>>>
>>> THANKS for the info Bob.
>>>
>>> Is anybody running a fixed pitch composite 3 bladed prop on a TR-4? I
>>> want some basic inputs from actual use before I make a decision. MT, Pr
ince
>>> and even Sensenich are high on my list.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:26 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote
:
>>>
>>>> Galin,
>>>>
>>>> Catto didn't have a model number for the prop, he basically did a
>>>> custom based on engine horsepower, RPM, and airspeed for the aircraft.
He
>>>> also included desired two blade or three blade configuration. I went
with
>>>> three blade out of desire to have quite operation over power performan
ce
>>>> because of Sharon's migraines. Catto now has the leading edge protect
ion
>>>> on his props.
>>>>
>>>> I looked at Prince and can't remember why I excluded them but it seems
>>>> that their prop wasn't rated for the Lycoming 360 engine at that time.
I
>>>> also looked at MT Props but they were a bit on the expensive side as I
>>>> recall. I really liked their electric constant speed option though an
d
>>>> would probably have gone with that if money weren't a primary concern.
>>>>
>>>> Hope that helps,
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
>>>> *To:* "kis-list@matronics.com" <kis-list@matronics.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 1:08 PM
>>>>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
>>>>
>>>> Bob; What model prop did you wind up buying from Catto? Does it have
>>>> a particular model number/designation?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 7/24/2014
>>>>
>>>> Hello Galin, You wrote: =9C.... composite props and rain don't m
ix very
>>>> well....=9D
>>>>
>>>> Would you consider a prince propeller with leading edge protection?
>>>>
>>>> http://www.princeaircraft.com/
>>>>
>>>> OC
>>>>
>>>> =======================
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 24, 2014 8:46 AM
>>>> *To:* kis-list@matronics.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
>>>>
>>>> Initial check by the mechanic indicates no firewall damage at all,
>>>> so the actual damage is not a big deal. Engine will be completely
>>>> overhauled, a new nose gear installed, a new propeller installed, some
>>>> fiberglass work done and the airplane will be better than before. The
>>>> airplane is a whole lot stronger than it looks.
>>>>
>>>> The rear pin on the landing gear "H" bracket broke letting the entire
>>>> assembly rotate 180 degrees backwards. Once this happened the main tub
e
>>>> held up for a little bit but eventually collapsed under the different
>>>> stress. I will ask Lyle if he can make the landing gear rear pin a lit
tle
>>>> bigger to better withstand the landing loads.
>>>>
>>>> I will definitely look at moving the main gear an inch or two further
>>>> forward but not sure if it can be done at this stage. The other option
is
>>>> to go with a CATTO composite prop, which is lighter than the SENSENICH
>>>> aluminum prop I have, but composite props and rain don't mix very well
and
>>>> I fly real IMC.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List <http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List>
>>>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.co
m/contribution>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *http://www.matro:// <http://www.matro://>forums.matronics.com/ <http:
//forums.matronics.com/>" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.
<http://forums.>=========
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List <http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List>
>>>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.co
m/contribution>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navig
ator?KIS-List>
>>> ics.com <http://ics.com>
>>> .matronics.com/contribution <http://matronics.com/contribution>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> <http://www.avast.com/>
>>>
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Message 8
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|
| Subject: | KIS TR-1 Flap Sectors |
8/1/2014
Hello Tim, Your motivational words have yielded results. See the
attached photo of my modified flap sectors with the additional fourth
notch for increasing the amount of flaps down.
Plan now is to test fly it and if working properly have the hardware
powder coated for final installation.
Thanks for your help.
OC
Message 9
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|
| Subject: | Official KIS-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the KIS-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete KIS-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/KIS-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains KIS-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the KIS-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the KIS-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
kis-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "kis-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the KIS-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the KIS-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/kis-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all KIS-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the KIS-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* KIS-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the KIS-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* KIS-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* KIS-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* KIS-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the KIS-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* KIS-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the KIS-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the KIS-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?KIS
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
KIS-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the KIS-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the KIS-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
KIS-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the KIS-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 10
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| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
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| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Official KIS-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the KIS-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
KIS-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/KIS-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
KIS-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the KIS-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the KIS-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
KIS-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the KIS-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
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