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1. 01:27 AM - Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure (Keith.Miller@esa.int)
2. 02:20 PM - Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure (Galin Hernandez)
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| Subject: | Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure |
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure |
Bob; The pin, fuselage brackets and the "H" brackets are all new. I have to
verify with the mechanic working on this but it is possible that the rear
pin is stainless steel not aluminum but I am not sure. This would make a
big difference in shear strength. I could have just gotten a bad pin. Feces
occurs.
however, I need to insure the two fuselage brackets are properly aligned
because if not this can put a different stress on that pin it isn't
designed to take. But either way I am going to follow Al Rosa and Keith
Miller's lead by using aircraft bolts instead of a long pin. I think it
would be a wise thing for everyone to do.
On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 12:12 AM, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote:
> Galin,
>
> I have been thinking about this since you first reported the
> gear failure. I can't help but wonder if the exhaust failure had an effe
ct
> on the H-Bracket that wouldn't have been so obvious. Since the bracket i
s
> formed from Aluminum and you had to replace the pin was it possible that
> the hole in the bracket was somehow compromised allowing movement of the
> pin that resulted in the failure. My thought is that the heating of the
> bracket might have allowed the hole to expand or elongate allowing excess
> movement of the pin.
>
> I am just suspicious that the pin failed after such a short period
> following the exhaust problem even though it has lasted for a long time
> prior to that event.
>
> Just some ramblings of an old fool so feel free to ignore.
>
> Bob
> *From:* Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
> *To:* "kis-list@matronics.com" <kis-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, August 1, 2014 10:35 AM
>
> *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
>
> If it was your idea I think you made a wise decision.
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 11:20 AM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Galin, I'm out of town and can't send pictures till I get back in 10 days
.
> My H does connect to the firewall brackets with two short AN bolts which
> are almost impossible to break.
> Don't remember if that was the design or my beefing up mod.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Aug 1, 2014, at 11:03 AM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Al; Here is a photo of the "H" bracket where you can see the rear aluminu
m
> pin just underneath the fuselage.
>
> Can you send a photo of your set up? I wonder if they changed the design
> and now use 2 steel bolts instead of one aluminum pin. This would really
> strengthen the point where the "H" bracket connect to the firewall bracke
ts
> which is what I was thinking with my idea of a steel pin.
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 6:24 AM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Galin,
> I'm having a hard time trying to understand what you mean by the rear pin
.
> My H bracket connects to the firewall brackets with two bolts.
> Al
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 31, 2014, at 10:38 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I contacted CATTO Props today but they are all at OSH so if somebody gets
> to talk to them ask about a 3 bladed composite for a KIS4 with Lycoming
> O360 180HP engine. :)
>
> Now for the ongoing nose gear saga:
> It turns out the rear pin on the nose gear assembly sheared which caused
> the gear to collapse. The shear was clean and it was obvious (corrosion)
> the pin had started breaking well before the failure. It sheared right
> where the "H" bracket meets the firewall bracket and this explains why th
e
> visual inspection done during the annual did not find it. To see the
> problem happening you have to remove the pin there is no other way to
> inspect the area. I recommend everyone pull and check their rear "H"
> bracket pin to see if they are experiencing the same issue or not. If you
> do please let us know what your find, good or bad, so if there is a trend
> we can identify it.
>
> I plan to pull and inspect the new pin after 50hr or 50 landing (whicheve
r
> comes first) and at the annual. If I experience a bad shimmy at any time
> (due to over grease or lack of friction) I will pull and inspect the pin
> since this places a lot of stress on that specific part of that pin. Afte
r
> a few inspections I will decide if it needs to be inspected on a continuo
us
> basis or I just got a bad pin. I am also contemplating having the new pin
> made from steel instead of aluminum even with the dissimilar metal
> corrosion issue. Steel or aluminum I will do the above inspections no
> matter what the pin is eventually made from.
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Tim Yoder <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com> wrote
:
>
> Galin,
>
> You might talk to Scott Stearns, he had a Prince prop on his carbon
> TR-1C with a 220 HP O-360 and has changed to a different prop. A friend g
ot
> a three blade Catto for his RV7 that took six months to get but he likes
> it. The Prince P-Tip is not the most efficient design and I'm sure you kn
ow
> that two blades are more efficient than three, as Bob mentioned, assuming
> you have ground clearance. I also believe that MT has a mandatory 10 yr.
> overhaul on it's adjustable props. That cost allot also.
>
> Tim
>
> *From:* owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Galin Hernandez
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 1:08 PM
> *To:* kis-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
>
> THANKS for the info Bob.
>
> Is anybody running a fixed pitch composite 3 bladed prop on a TR-4? I wan
t
> some basic inputs from actual use before I make a decision. MT, Prince an
d
> even Sensenich are high on my list.
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:26 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote:
>
> Galin,
>
> Catto didn't have a model number for the prop, he basically did a custom
> based on engine horsepower, RPM, and airspeed for the aircraft. He also
> included desired two blade or three blade configuration. I went with thr
ee
> blade out of desire to have quite operation over power performance becaus
e
> of Sharon's migraines. Catto now has the leading edge protection on his
> props.
>
> I looked at Prince and can't remember why I excluded them but it seems
> that their prop wasn't rated for the Lycoming 360 engine at that time. I
> also looked at MT Props but they were a bit on the expensive side as I
> recall. I really liked their electric constant speed option though and
> would probably have gone with that if money weren't a primary concern.
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> Bob
>
>
> *From:* Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
> *To:* "kis-list@matronics.com" <kis-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 1:08 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
>
> Bob; What model prop did you wind up buying from Catto? Does it have a
> particular model number/designation?
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
>
> 7/24/2014
>
> Hello Galin, You wrote: =9C.... composite props and rain don't mix
very
> well....=9D
>
> Would you consider a prince propeller with leading edge protection?
>
> http://www.princeaircraft.com/
>
> OC
>
> ========
>
> *From:* Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 24, 2014 8:46 AM
> *To:* kis-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure
>
> Initial check by the mechanic indicates no firewall damage at all, so
> the actual damage is not a big deal. Engine will be completely overhauled
,
> a new nose gear installed, a new propeller installed, some fiberglass wor
k
> done and the airplane will be better than before. The airplane is a whole
> lot stronger than it looks.
>
> The rear pin on the landing gear "H" bracket broke letting the entire
> assembly rotate 180 degrees backwards. Once this happened the main tube
> held up for a little bit but eventually collapsed under the different
> stress. I will ask Lyle if he can make the landing gear rear pin a little
> bigger to better withstand the landing loads.
>
> I will definitely look at moving the main gear an inch or two further
> forward but not sure if it can be done at this stage. The other option is
> to go with a CATTO composite prop, which is lighter than the SENSENICH
> aluminum prop I have, but composite props and rain don't mix very well an
d
> I fly real IMC.
>
>
> *
>
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