---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 08/04/14: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:27 AM - Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure (Keith.Miller@esa.int) 2. 02:20 PM - Re: N819PR Nose Gear Failure (Galin Hernandez) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:27:10 AM PST US Subject: Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure From: Keith.Miller@esa.int SSBuZXZlciBsaWtlZCB0aGUgaWRlYSBvZiB0aGUgcGlucyBpbiB0aGUgbm9zZSBnZWFyIHNvIGkg cmVwbGFjZWQgdGhlbSAgd2l0aA0KY2FkIHBsYXRlZCBib2x0cyBhbmQgIGdyZWFzZSB0aGVtIHVw IGVhY2ggYW5udWFsIC4NCkluIGFkZGl0aW9uIHRvIGJlaW5nIHN0cm9uZ2VyIHRoYW4gdGhlIHBp bnMgdGhleSAgYWxzbyAgdGFrZSB1cCBhIGxvdCBvZg0Kc2lkZSBtb3ZlbWVudHMgLg0KDQpoZXJl IGlzIGEgcGljdHVyZSA6DQoNCihTZWUgYXR0YWNoZWQgZmlsZTogRFNDTjAyMjUuSlBHKQ0KDQoN Cg0KDQoNCkZyb206CSJPd2VuIEJha2VyICIgPGJha2Vyb2NiQGNveC5uZXQ+DQpUbzoJPGtpcy1s 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I have to verify with the mechanic working on this but it is possible that the rear pin is stainless steel not aluminum but I am not sure. This would make a big difference in shear strength. I could have just gotten a bad pin. Feces occurs. however, I need to insure the two fuselage brackets are properly aligned because if not this can put a different stress on that pin it isn't designed to take. But either way I am going to follow Al Rosa and Keith Miller's lead by using aircraft bolts instead of a long pin. I think it would be a wise thing for everyone to do. On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 12:12 AM, Robert Reed wrote: > Galin, > > I have been thinking about this since you first reported the > gear failure. I can't help but wonder if the exhaust failure had an effe ct > on the H-Bracket that wouldn't have been so obvious. Since the bracket i s > formed from Aluminum and you had to replace the pin was it possible that > the hole in the bracket was somehow compromised allowing movement of the > pin that resulted in the failure. My thought is that the heating of the > bracket might have allowed the hole to expand or elongate allowing excess > movement of the pin. > > I am just suspicious that the pin failed after such a short period > following the exhaust problem even though it has lasted for a long time > prior to that event. > > Just some ramblings of an old fool so feel free to ignore. > > Bob > *From:* Galin Hernandez > *To:* "kis-list@matronics.com" > *Sent:* Friday, August 1, 2014 10:35 AM > > *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure > > If it was your idea I think you made a wise decision. > > > On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 11:20 AM, Alfred Rosa wrote: > > Galin, I'm out of town and can't send pictures till I get back in 10 days .. > My H does connect to the firewall brackets with two short AN bolts which > are almost impossible to break. > Don't remember if that was the design or my beefing up mod. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Aug 1, 2014, at 11:03 AM, Galin Hernandez wrote: > > Al; Here is a photo of the "H" bracket where you can see the rear aluminu m > pin just underneath the fuselage. > > Can you send a photo of your set up? I wonder if they changed the design > and now use 2 steel bolts instead of one aluminum pin. This would really > strengthen the point where the "H" bracket connect to the firewall bracke ts > which is what I was thinking with my idea of a steel pin. > > > On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 6:24 AM, Alfred Rosa wrote: > > Galin, > I'm having a hard time trying to understand what you mean by the rear pin .. > My H bracket connects to the firewall brackets with two bolts. > Al > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 31, 2014, at 10:38 PM, Galin Hernandez wrote: > > I contacted CATTO Props today but they are all at OSH so if somebody gets > to talk to them ask about a 3 bladed composite for a KIS4 with Lycoming > O360 180HP engine. :) > > Now for the ongoing nose gear saga: > It turns out the rear pin on the nose gear assembly sheared which caused > the gear to collapse. The shear was clean and it was obvious (corrosion) > the pin had started breaking well before the failure. It sheared right > where the "H" bracket meets the firewall bracket and this explains why th e > visual inspection done during the annual did not find it. To see the > problem happening you have to remove the pin there is no other way to > inspect the area. I recommend everyone pull and check their rear "H" > bracket pin to see if they are experiencing the same issue or not. If you > do please let us know what your find, good or bad, so if there is a trend > we can identify it. > > I plan to pull and inspect the new pin after 50hr or 50 landing (whicheve r > comes first) and at the annual. If I experience a bad shimmy at any time > (due to over grease or lack of friction) I will pull and inspect the pin > since this places a lot of stress on that specific part of that pin. Afte r > a few inspections I will decide if it needs to be inspected on a continuo us > basis or I just got a bad pin. I am also contemplating having the new pin > made from steel instead of aluminum even with the dissimilar metal > corrosion issue. Steel or aluminum I will do the above inspections no > matter what the pin is eventually made from. > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Tim Yoder wrote : > > Galin, > > You might talk to Scott Stearns, he had a Prince prop on his carbon > TR-1C with a 220 HP O-360 and has changed to a different prop. A friend g ot > a three blade Catto for his RV7 that took six months to get but he likes > it. The Prince P-Tip is not the most efficient design and I'm sure you kn ow > that two blades are more efficient than three, as Bob mentioned, assuming > you have ground clearance. I also believe that MT has a mandatory 10 yr. > overhaul on it's adjustable props. That cost allot also. > > Tim > > *From:* owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Galin Hernandez > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 1:08 PM > *To:* kis-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure > > THANKS for the info Bob. > > Is anybody running a fixed pitch composite 3 bladed prop on a TR-4? I wan t > some basic inputs from actual use before I make a decision. MT, Prince an d > even Sensenich are high on my list. > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:26 PM, Robert Reed wrote: > > Galin, > > Catto didn't have a model number for the prop, he basically did a custom > based on engine horsepower, RPM, and airspeed for the aircraft. He also > included desired two blade or three blade configuration. I went with thr ee > blade out of desire to have quite operation over power performance becaus e > of Sharon's migraines. Catto now has the leading edge protection on his > props. > > I looked at Prince and can't remember why I excluded them but it seems > that their prop wasn't rated for the Lycoming 360 engine at that time. I > also looked at MT Props but they were a bit on the expensive side as I > recall. I really liked their electric constant speed option though and > would probably have gone with that if money weren't a primary concern. > > Hope that helps, > > Bob > > > *From:* Galin Hernandez > *To:* "kis-list@matronics.com" > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 1:08 PM > > *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure > > Bob; What model prop did you wind up buying from Catto? Does it have a > particular model number/designation? > > > On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Owen Baker wrote: > > 7/24/2014 > > Hello Galin, You wrote: =9C.... composite props and rain don't mix very > well....=9D > > Would you consider a prince propeller with leading edge protection? > > http://www.princeaircraft.com/ > > OC > > ======== > > *From:* Galin Hernandez > *Sent:* Thursday, July 24, 2014 8:46 AM > *To:* kis-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: N819PR Nose Gear Failure > > Initial check by the mechanic indicates no firewall damage at all, so > the actual damage is not a big deal. Engine will be completely overhauled , > a new nose gear installed, a new propeller installed, some fiberglass wor k > done and the airplane will be better than before. The airplane is a whole > lot stronger than it looks. > > The rear pin on the landing gear "H" bracket broke letting the entire > assembly rotate 180 degrees backwards. Once this happened the main tube > held up for a little bit but eventually collapsed under the different > stress. I will ask Lyle if he can make the landing gear rear pin a little > bigger to better withstand the landing loads. > > I will definitely look at moving the main gear an inch or two further > forward but not sure if it can be done at this stage. The other option is > to go with a CATTO composite prop, which is lighter than the SENSENICH > aluminum prop I have, but composite props and rain don't mix very well an d > I fly real IMC. > > > * > > et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List * > > * tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > > *http://www.matro// forums.matronics.com/ " target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums./ ========= > > * > > > * > > et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > > > * > > ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > ics.com > .matronics.com/contribution > > * > > > > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! 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