---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 09/07/14: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:19 AM - Re: Re: Oshkosh (Ed Hanson) 2. 01:31 PM - Re: Oshkosh (mark_trickel) 3. 10:38 PM - Re: Re: Oshkosh (Randy Ott) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:19:19 AM PST US From: "Ed Hanson" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Oshkosh Gatlin, the wheel pants are RV10's from Vans. ----- Original Message ----- From: Galin Hernandez To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2014 3:28 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Oshkosh THANKS for the write-up. I loved the pics of Ed Hanson=99s TR-4. Is Ed on this forum? I would like to ask him a few questions about his wheel boots, specifically the nose wheel boot. On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 3:40 PM, mark_trickel wrote: The Complete Oshkosh Report Sorry smart phone users =93 go home and fire up your computers for this one. Mark K. was supposed to be showing at Oshkosh with another manufacture, but they were unable to attend so at the last minute we decided we would show together. Scott had planned on coming to Oshkosh anyway so we were able to convince him to put his =9CKING KIS=9D on our spot. We did not have much choice of locations so they put us in front of the tower on the runway side. First thing Monday morning a nice fellow, and his wife strolled up to our display and introduced himself, it was TR-1 owner Michael Patten from Australia. He was not the builder of his KIS, but both he, and his wife have enjoyed flying it for many years. Michael has had the airplane for sale for a long while as he is currently building a Glasair. Just by chance a guy from China came by, and is interested in the 2 TR-1s for sale in that area. We had a lot of people interested in the KIS, and many of them were interested in old kits currently for sale. While I was talking to an interest party, and I was telling him about a kit available in Oregon, I turned to point over to Scott=99s airplane, and there was Steve Ruege. I knew Steve was coming to Oshkosh, I had emailed Chuck Harrison before the show. Steve was originally from Oshkosh, and he often comes to Oshkosh to visit with the family. I introduced him to the guy I was talking to, and the two of them talked about his TR-1 kit now for sale. They exchange contact information, and who knows the guy just might buy his kit, after all you can=99t get any better than built by the original factory crew. Chuck, and Steve are doing pretty good with their composite shop. They make, and supply parts to Cessna for the Corvalis, and they did most of the tooling for a new tactical jet fighter for a subsidiary of Cessna. They have plans to add an autoclave oven very soon. Oshkosh is truly international, the next KIS guy to appear was none other than South African builder Maurits van Rooy. We had a nice long chat to catch up on things in his part of the world. Well actually he is now living in Alberta, Canada, and has been there for the last 10 years. He has a company that installs avionics like Garmin G3X and other similar upgrades. His KIS is still back in South Africa in safe hands with his brother who also has a KIS TR-1. Over the years Rich showed at Oshkosh we had many visits from the South African KIS guys, and it was always interesting to hear what was going on in that country as the blacks gained more, and more control over the country. Many whites have left the country, and that is a hard thing to do because you cannot take any money out of the country. You can take goods with you but no money. So if you are white you live in a compound with really high walls around it, and hope you don=99t become next victim. Maurits had one very in! teresting bit of information =93 Now, if you are white in South Africa you cannot be hired for work! You must be independently wealthy or be a business owner that hires blacks. There is nothing like equality! Or B, how=99s that for progress! I have been searching for the KIS fleet but for a change at Oshkosh the KIS guys were finding me. Another very nice gentleman came into our booth, and mentioned he had a flying KIS TR-1. It was Dr. John Burnett. I had his name on my list but I had no other details, I probably found his name on one of Vance=99s newsletters, I don=99t recall, but anyway he is now confirmed as a KIS builder. He hasn=99t flown the Franklin powered airplane in a couple years but it=99s he still has it. I hope he will stop by here, and let us know more information on his unusual build. He did mention he still has the jig for the Franklin motor mount should anyone come by one of those animals. John resides in Palestine, Texas. The next KIS guy to appear is a little troubling to mehis name is John Baker from Perrysville, Indiana. That may ring a bell to those following this forum. I mentioned this town a while back. That is where TR-1 builder Wally Clingan resided, and John knew Wally pretty good. He bought his first airplane, a Kitfox, and when Wally was getting too sick to fly he sold the KIS to John. I like the fact that I found this airplane but it has issues. Wally fueled it with auto gas, and I am unsure about how the wing was built. I do not know if Wally made provisions to fuel it with auto gas. The wing does have a small leak, and John can see here it is leaking from the top corner for the tank where the spar fits up against the upper wing skin. Fuel is leaking into the bay rearward of the spar, not a good thing. John is concerned about how the fly the airplane, I=99m concerned the wing might fail. I spent the rest of the show discussing this with the engineer, and I hope I can get John! to join us here. Maybe we can get him through this otherwise he may have to wait until I can get a new TR-1 wing going. Scotts =9CKING OF ALL KISes=9D was a real draw, and another nice gentleman rolled up, and mentioned he had one of those. He is the new owner of N924C the prototype TR-1C, and his name is Victor Sobrado. He recently bought the airplane from Ken Hibler. Ken lost his medical but has been helping Victor transition into the taildragger. It=99s a real man=99s airplane, it has a stock elevator, and will probably never be extended. I guess I=99m not very manly, every time I plot a new elevator airfoil for mine it keeps getting bigger (but I=99m trying to land mine at 39 kts.)! As of Oshkosh Victor has not soloed the TR-1C yet. I am sure will be stopping by to see us here. It was sure nice to finally meet Kent. Being from Missouri the state I was born in, Kent is one of the nicest people you=99d ever meet. He had a person really interested in his airplane so he sent him to see us at our booth. That was Jarod (He=99s with us here on the forum), and we talked to him for a long while about Kent=99s airplane, and others for sale in the fleet. Making an investment in an airplane is a big decision, but I hope we can get Jarod to join our society of KIS owners real soon. Our fleet is small but it stands up to any RV can (term coined by Mark K.) Kent=99s airplane was started by Kirby Jefferson, and he finished the build, and got it flying. One morning while I was out on the flight line talking to Kent at his airplane this guy came up, and was intently looking at Kent=99s airplane. I looked at the guy, and said you really look familiar, and the guy said well, he was building one of these for Solly. It was Jay Braymer who had done a large part of the building on that ill-fated P300-TR-4. I asked him about many of the changes they had made in the airplane but he never saw the end result. I sent him a few pics of the fine work he had done. He mentioned he did a lot of re-contouring to get the six place vertical tail to fit onto the Cruiser. Jay is still in the composite business in Boerne, Texas. We manned (and wo-manned) our booth the best we could, but when you are showing at Oshkosh it doesn=99t leave a lot of time to look around at things. We sort of had to take turns venturing around the show to see things. At one point Mark, and I were out checking stuff out, and we got a call from the booth that yet another KIS guy found us, so we had to rush back to find out who it might be. Now, here I am at Oshkosh 900+ miles from home, and a TR-1 builder comes to our booth who lives a mire 30 minutes or so from my house in Newark, Delaware. Larry Keating is building a Lycoming O-235 powered TR-1, and he is the second owner of this project. He bought the airplane from a guy by the name of Ben Pierce or Pierson (Larry could not recall the exact name). The project is a bit stalled out at the moment but maybe we can inspire him to get back to building. He is definitely interested in the changes builders have developed to make the KIS a better performing aircraft, like the exte! nded elevator, and repositioned landing gear. We had a great time at the show, and for a last minute thing I think we did a pretty good job getting the word out about KIS, and AeroMomentum. Many people came by our booth that knew Rich, and were good friends of Rich. I believe there were a lot of people genuinely interested in KIS aircraft. One last note, these days instead of collecting brochures many people used their cell phones to take pictures of our signs and brochures. Key to photographs: KIS TR-1 MKII =93 This is what the next generation KIS may look like (shown with a LSA wing). A larger door opening, a different tail, a more level stance, and a little more head room. One thing is for certain that tail will be on my airplane. After taking measurements off of Scott=99s airplane I know now there was a full 10=9D cut off my TR-1C vertical tail. My new vertical tail, and surfaces will use the Eppler EA 6(-1)-012 airfoil. It has that concave line similar to the RVcan wheel pants. These airfoils are starting to appear on wind power generating blades, and I may be the one of the first to adapt them for homebuilt aircraft use. OSH02, and 03 =93 Ed Hanson=99s beautiful TR-4. The pics speak for themselves. The paint on this one is as nice as Galin=99s. OSH04, and 05 =93 Our display =93 where are the people? Air showing doesn=99t start as early as it did back in the ol=99 KIS days. OSH06 =93 We all know Kent=99s airplane, and here=99s a pic of Kent, and his KIS Cruiser. OSH07, and 08 =93 Meet the new Bede, much like the ol=99 Bede. I think this is the Bede 22, a new 2 place, a bit on the boxy side. Note the composite gear leg same as the Yankee. KIS guys may not know Rich=99s TR-1 originally had a carbon fiber main gear. I have no idea why he went with the aluminum deal other than the fact that everyone else was going with aluminum main gears. You might see something like this on a KIS out of my shop. The Bede guys were down at our booth ogling Mark=99s engine a few times, they want to put it in the Bede 17. OSH09 =93 Oshkosh is not as much about airplanes as it is entertainment these days. Kenny Loggins opened the airshow big stage on Monday. That=99s him, the little spec in the middle of the stage, but there were no jets flying when he did the Top Gun theme. Every night after the airshow there was a concert, but after a long day of air showing all you want to do is go back to your tent, and sleeeeep. Yes our entire crew camped out, Mark, and Scott with wives in tow, in the north 40 camped next to Mark=99s lobster plane, and I was in camp Scholler. There was this tent bar with bikini waitresses set up near my camp. Several nights they had loud bands that played into the late night, and by the end of the show I was in bad shape from lack of sleep. OSH10 =93 GeeBee Q.E.D. pics don=99t do this thing justice, the bad boy is huge. The wing leading edge is 6 feet off the ground. One morning it did a fly by, very impressive in deed. OSH11 =93 A beautiful Jenny someone spent loads of time on this one. Too nice to put covering on it. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430131#430131 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/tr_1_mkii_751.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/osh02_129.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/osh03_200.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/osh04_206.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/osh04_207.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/osh05_501.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/osh06_170.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/osh07_350.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/osh08_735.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/osh09_205.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/osh10_202.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/osh11_197.jpg ========== List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List ========== FORUMS - _blank">http://forums.matronics.com ========== b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:31:43 PM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Re: Oshkosh From: "mark_trickel" Galin, I have a couple of "boot" pics from Ed's Cruiser I will send along to you. Tim, Thanks - The current KIS engineering department informed me the Bede main gear idea could be adapted to the new KIS saving mucho pounds. So builders can either go faster or eat more tomato sandwiches. The gear legs can be made of e-glass, and not break the bank. Ed H., welcome back to KIS central. We still have a few TR-4 builders that could use your help. Mark T. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430165#430165 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:38:03 PM PST US From: Randy Ott Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Oshkosh It was much appreciated ! Randy N96bt Sent from my iPad > On Sep 7, 2014, at 10:18 AM, "Ed Hanson" wrote: > > Gatlin, the wheel pants are RV10's from Vans. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Galin Hernandez > To: kis-list@matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2014 3:28 PM > Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Oshkosh > > THANKS for the write-up. I loved the pics of Ed Hanson=99s TR-4. Is E d on this forum? I would like to ask him a few questions about his wheel boo ts, specifically the nose wheel boot. > > >> On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 3:40 PM, mark_trickel wrot e: >> >> The Complete Oshkosh Report >> Sorry smart phone users =93 go home and fire up your computers for t his one. >> >> Mark K. was supposed to be showing at Oshkosh with another manufacture, b ut they were unable to attend so at the last minute we decided we would show together. Scott had planned on coming to Oshkosh anyway so we were able to c onvince him to put his =9CKING KIS=9D on our spot. We did not ha ve much choice of locations so they put us in front of the tower on the runw ay side. >> >> First thing Monday morning a nice fellow, and his wife strolled up to our display and introduced himself, it was TR-1 owner Michael Patten from Austr alia. He was not the builder of his KIS, but both he, and his wife have enjo yed flying it for many years. Michael has had the airplane for sale for a lo ng while as he is currently building a Glasair. Just by chance a guy from Ch ina came by, and is interested in the 2 TR-1s for sale in that area. >> >> We had a lot of people interested in the KIS, and many of them were inter ested in old kits currently for sale. While I was talking to an interest par ty, and I was telling him about a kit available in Oregon, I turned to point over to Scott=99s airplane, and there was Steve Ruege. I knew Steve w as coming to Oshkosh, I had emailed Chuck Harrison before the show. Steve wa s originally from Oshkosh, and he often comes to Oshkosh to visit with the f amily. I introduced him to the guy I was talking to, and the two of them tal ked about his TR-1 kit now for sale. They exchange contact information, and w ho knows the guy just might buy his kit, after all you can=99t get any better than built by the original factory crew. Chuck, and Steve are doing p retty good with their composite shop. They make, and supply parts to Cessna f or the Corvalis, and they did most of the tooling for a new tactical jet fig hter for a subsidiary of Cessna. They have plans to add an autoclave oven ve ry soon. >> >> Oshkosh is truly international, the next KIS guy to appear was none other than South African builder Maurits van Rooy. We had a nice long chat to cat ch up on things in his part of the world. Well actually he is now living in A lberta, Canada, and has been there for the last 10 years. He has a company t hat installs avionics like Garmin G3X and other similar upgrades. His KIS is still back in South Africa in safe hands with his brother who also has a KI S TR-1. Over the years Rich showed at Oshkosh we had many visits from the So uth African KIS guys, and it was always interesting to hear what was going o n in that country as the blacks gained more, and more control over the count ry. Many whites have left the country, and that is a hard thing to do becaus e you cannot take any money out of the country. You can take goods with you b ut no money. So if you are white you live in a compound with really high wal ls around it, and hope you don=99t become next victim. Maurits had one very in! >> teresting bit of information =93 Now, if you are white in South Af rica you cannot be hired for work! You must be independently wealthy or be a business owner that hires blacks. There is nothing like equality! Or B , how=99s that for progress! >> >> I have been searching for the KIS fleet but for a change at Oshkosh the K IS guys were finding me. Another very nice gentleman came into our booth, an d mentioned he had a flying KIS TR-1. It was Dr. John Burnett. I had his nam e on my list but I had no other details, I probably found his name on one of Vance=99s newsletters, I don=99t recall, but anyway he is now c onfirmed as a KIS builder. He hasn=99t flown the Franklin powered airp lane in a couple years but it=99s he still has it. I hope he will stop by here, and let us know more information on his unusual build. He did ment ion he still has the jig for the Franklin motor mount should anyone come by o ne of those animals. John resides in Palestine, Texas. >> >> The next KIS guy to appear is a little troubling to mehis name i s John Baker from Perrysville, Indiana. That may ring a bell to those follow ing this forum. I mentioned this town a while back. That is where TR-1 build er Wally Clingan resided, and John knew Wally pretty good. He bought his fir st airplane, a Kitfox, and when Wally was getting too sick to fly he sold th e KIS to John. I like the fact that I found this airplane but it has issues. Wally fueled it with auto gas, and I am unsure about how the wing was built . I do not know if Wally made provisions to fuel it with auto gas. The wing d oes have a small leak, and John can see here it is leaking from the top corn er for the tank where the spar fits up against the upper wing skin. Fuel is l eaking into the bay rearward of the spar, not a good thing. John is concerne d about how the fly the airplane, I=99m concerned the wing might fail. I spent the rest of the show discussing this with the engineer, and I hope I can get John! >> to join us here. Maybe we can get him through this otherwise he may hav e to wait until I can get a new TR-1 wing going. >> >> Scotts =9CKING OF ALL KISes=9D was a real draw, and another n ice gentleman rolled up, and mentioned he had one of those. He is the new ow ner of N924C the prototype TR-1C, and his name is Victor Sobrado. He recentl y bought the airplane from Ken Hibler. Ken lost his medical but has been hel ping Victor transition into the taildragger. It=99s a real man=99 s airplane, it has a stock elevator, and will probably never be extended. I g uess I=99m not very manly, every time I plot a new elevator airfoil fo r mine it keeps getting bigger (but I=99m trying to land mine at 39 kt s.)! As of Oshkosh Victor has not soloed the TR-1C yet. I am sure will be st opping by to see us here. >> >> It was sure nice to finally meet Kent. Being from Missouri the state I wa s born in, Kent is one of the nicest people you=99d ever meet. He had a person really interested in his airplane so he sent him to see us at our bo oth. That was Jarod (He=99s with us here on the forum), and we talked t o him for a long while about Kent=99s airplane, and others for sale in the fleet. Making an investment in an airplane is a big decision, but I hop e we can get Jarod to join our society of KIS owners real soon. Our fleet is small but it stands up to any RV can (term coined by Mark K.) Kent=99 s airplane was started by Kirby Jefferson, and he finished the build, and go t it flying. >> >> One morning while I was out on the flight line talking to Kent at his air plane this guy came up, and was intently looking at Kent=99s airplane. I looked at the guy, and said you really look familiar, and the guy said we ll, he was building one of these for Solly. It was Jay Braymer who had done a large part of the building on that ill-fated P300-TR-4. I asked him about m any of the changes they had made in the airplane but he never saw the end re sult. I sent him a few pics of the fine work he had done. He mentioned he di d a lot of re-contouring to get the six place vertical tail to fit onto the C ruiser. Jay is still in the composite business in Boerne, Texas. >> >> We manned (and wo-manned) our booth the best we could, but when you are s howing at Oshkosh it doesn=99t leave a lot of time to look around at t hings. We sort of had to take turns venturing around the show to see things. At one point Mark, and I were out checking stuff out, and we got a call fro m the booth that yet another KIS guy found us, so we had to rush back to fin d out who it might be. Now, here I am at Oshkosh 900+ miles from home, and a TR-1 builder comes to our booth who lives a mire 30 minutes or so from my h ouse in Newark, Delaware. Larry Keating is building a Lycoming O-235 powered TR-1, and he is the second owner of this project. He bought the airplane fr om a guy by the name of Ben Pierce or Pierson (Larry could not recall the ex act name). The project is a bit stalled out at the moment but maybe we can i nspire him to get back to building. He is definitely interested in the chang es builders have developed to make the KIS a better performing aircraft, lik e the exte! >> nded elevator, and repositioned landing gear. >> >> We had a great time at the show, and for a last minute thing I think we d id a pretty good job getting the word out about KIS, and AeroMomentum. Many p eople came by our booth that knew Rich, and were good friends of Rich. I bel ieve there were a lot of people genuinely interested in KIS aircraft. One la st note, these days instead of collecting brochures many people used their c ell phones to take pictures of our signs and brochures. >> >> Key to photographs: >> >> KIS TR-1 MKII =93 This is what the next generation KIS may look lik e (shown with a LSA wing). A larger door opening, a different tail, a more l evel stance, and a little more head room. One thing is for certain that tail will be on my airplane. After taking measurements off of Scott=99s ai rplane I know now there was a full 10=9D cut off my TR-1C vertical tai l. My new vertical tail, and surfaces will use the Eppler EA 6(-1)-012 airfo il. It has that concave line similar to the RVcan wheel pants. These airfoil s are starting to appear on wind power generating blades, and I may be the o ne of the first to adapt them for homebuilt aircraft use. >> >> OSH02, and 03 =93 Ed Hanson=99s beautiful TR-4. The pics spea k for themselves. The paint on this one is as nice as Galin=99s. >> >> OSH04, and 05 =93 Our display =93 where are the people? Air s howing doesn=99t start as early as it did back in the ol=99 KIS d ays. >> >> OSH06 =93 We all know Kent=99s airplane, and here=99s a pic of Kent, and his KIS Cruiser. >> >> OSH07, and 08 =93 Meet the new Bede, much like the ol=99 Bede . I think this is the Bede 22, a new 2 place, a bit on the boxy side. Note t he composite gear leg same as the Yankee. KIS guys may not know Rich=99 s TR-1 originally had a carbon fiber main gear. I have no idea why he went w ith the aluminum deal other than the fact that everyone else was going with a luminum main gears. You might see something like this on a KIS out of my sho p. The Bede guys were down at our booth ogling Mark=99s engine a few t imes, they want to put it in the Bede 17. >> >> OSH09 =93 Oshkosh is not as much about airplanes as it is entertain ment these days. Kenny Loggins opened the airshow big stage on Monday. That =99s him, the little spec in the middle of the stage, but there were no j ets flying when he did the Top Gun theme. Every night after the airshow ther e was a concert, but after a long day of air showing all you want to do is g o back to your tent, and sleeeeep. Yes our entire crew camped out, Mark, and Scott with wives in tow, in the north 40 camped next to Mark=99s lobs ter plane, and I was in camp Scholler. There was this tent bar with bikini w aitresses set up near my camp. Several nights they had loud bands that playe d into the late night, and by the end of the show I was in bad shape from la ck of sleep. >> >> OSH10 =93 GeeBee Q.E.D. pics don=99t do this thing justice, t he bad boy is huge. The wing leading edge is 6 feet off the ground. One morn ing it did a fly by, very impressive in deed. >> >> OSH11 =93 A beautiful Jenny someone spent loads of time on this one . Too nice to put covering on it. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430131#430131 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/tr_1_mkii_751.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/osh02_129.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/osh03_200.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/osh04_206.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/osh04_207.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/osh05_501.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/osh06_170.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/osh07_350.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/osh08_735.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/osh09_205.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/osh10_202.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/osh11_197.jpg >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List >> ========== >> FORUMS - >> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?KIS-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.