Today's Message Index:
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1. 07:08 AM - Re: Help on this situation. (mark_trickel)
2. 01:40 PM - Re: TR-1 gear (Owen Baker)
3. 02:36 PM - Re: Re: TR-1 gear (Galin Hernandez)
4. 08:33 PM - Re: Re: TR-1 gear (Jesse Wright)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Help on this situation. |
The KIS fleet was sold mostly before 1997. Many examples were flying before we
figured out what was going on. Pilots with a great feel for flying could figure
the TR-1 out, an were very happy. Some low time guys like me ...well it didn't
go so good. If you are a member of the ladder the mods are a good idea. Many
of our experienced pilot made the mods, but many still did not make change simply
because they never found out. And so the mission is spread the word, and
try, and save lives, and equipment.
The vital modification for the TR-1 are:
Door latches - solid bar stock needs to replace the cable and spring loaded pin
set up, or better yet get a set of latches from Lyle Hendriks.
Main Gear - Moving the main gear forward to 70.5" I think OC has an excel file
posted here on the forum somewhere of the various main gear changes that other
builders made. Attached is a sketch of one builders gear mod.
Extension of the elevator by 3".
Landing gear, and elevator mods will make life easier in ground effect.
Tim - You have been flying the TR-1 a long time I am reasonably certain you have
it figured out.
Robert - keep going - for inspiration think of Elden Lorah, 88, no chance for
a medical but he continues to put the finsidhing touches on his 15 year old TR-1
project. We all need a reson to live
MT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441888#441888
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/kis_tr_1_main_gear_mod_129.jpg
Message 2
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5/8/2015
Hello Tim, Thank you for the opportunity to clarify and comment on this
subject. You wrote:
A) How thick of a Butyl rubber pad do you recommend under the gear.....
1) I never used the term butyl rubber pad. Someone else attributed that to
me. I wrote: Do you have some sort of thin elastomeric sheet between the
top of the landing gear cross bar and the bottom of the fuselage flox bed
that the cross bar fits up against? This is required to keep the relatively
hard aluminum cross bar from crumbling any cured flox high spots.
2) My initial elastomeric pad was a piece of red rubber farm machinery
belting of unknown progeny and Durometer (hardness) purchased from a local
hardware store. It eventually wore out and I replaced it. I dont remember
the thickness, but there is still a scrap of it lying around someplace that
could be measured if anyone cares.
3) I replaced the belting with this from McMaster-Carr: 8461K423
Adhesive-Black Medium-Strength Neoprene Rubber, 1/8 Thick, 4 Wide, 36 L,
Black, 40A Durometer This material was trimmed to fit the entire top of the
landing gear cross bar where the cross bar came into contact with the flox
bed on the bottom of the fuselage. I would think that either 1/8 inch or 1/4
inch thickness would be acceptable.
4) I believe that contact between the entire top of the landing gear cross
bar and the flox bed with the elastomeric sheet in between is the best
(only?) way to install the KIS TR-1 landing gear. This may not be the case
with the 4 place KIS.
5) Because of 4 above I do not believe that Grove radius plates can be used
properly between the top of the landing gear cross bar and the landing gear
flox bed of the KIS TR-1 fuselage. This may not be true of the 4 place KIS.
http://www.groveaircraft.com/radiusplates.html
6) While Grove radius plates may be used on only the bottom of the KIS TR-1
landing gear cross bar to hold the landing gear cross bar up into the recess
on the bottom of the KIS TR-1 fuselage I question their contributing value
for that purpose. Note that all of the Grove illustrations and words have
either radius plates or radius blocks paired in use both above and below the
cross bar.
7) I could not use the Grove radius blocks to hold the landing gear cross
bar up into the recess on the bottom of the KIS TR-1 fuselage because none
of the hole spacing in the radius blocks matched the already existing hole
spacing in my KIS TR-1 fuselage recess.
B) ....... have you canted the gear forward on your KIS?
Yes, my flox bed is wedge shaped to accomplish this. See the attached spread
sheet for measurements. With the flox wedging used to bias the main gear
forward my landing gear main axles centerlines are at Station 72.25 inches.
Note that page FUS 3-12, dated November 6, 1992, of the Builders Manual
calls for the main axles centerlines to be at Station 73.5 inches, so I
gained a forward movement of 1.25 inches for the main axle location with
that wedge. I am curious what other KIS TR-1 builders have for their main
gear centerline locations.
OC
======================================================
From: Tim Yoder
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2015 8:02 AM
Subject: TR-1 gear
Hi OC,
How thick of a Butyl rubber pad do you recommend under the gear and have you
canted the gear forward on your KIS?
Thanks,
Tim
Message 3
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EXCELLENT info OC. So if I read this right you don't have any plate (radius
or non radius) between the top of the landing gear cross bar and the
landing gear flox bed, just the elastomeric sheet. What did you use on the
bottom of the landing gear cross bar?
On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 4:40 PM, Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
> 5/8/2015
>
> Hello Tim, Thank you for the opportunity to clarify and comment on this
> subject. You wrote:
>
> A) =9CHow thick of a Butyl rubber pad do you recommend under the ge
ar.....=9D
>
> 1) I never used the term =9Cbutyl rubber pad=9D. Someone else
attributed that
> to me. I wrote: =9CDo you have some sort of thin elastomeric sheet
between
> the top of the landing gear cross bar and the bottom of the fuselage flox
> bed that the cross bar fits up against? This is required to keep the
> relatively hard aluminum cross bar from crumbling any cured flox high
> spots.=9D
>
> 2) My initial elastomeric pad was a piece of red =9Crubber
=9D farm machinery
> belting of unknown progeny and Durometer (hardness) purchased from a loca
l
> hardware store. It eventually wore out and I replaced it. I don=99t
remember
> the thickness, but there is still a scrap of it lying around someplace th
at
> could be measured if anyone cares.
>
> 3) I replaced the belting with this from McMaster-Carr: =9C8461K423
> Adhesive-Black Medium-Strength Neoprene Rubber, 1/8=9D Thick, 4
=9D Wide, 36=9D L,
> Black, 40A Durometer=9D This material was trimmed to fit the entire
top of
> the landing gear cross bar where the cross bar came into contact with the
> flox bed on the bottom of the fuselage. I would think that either 1/8 inc
h
> or 1/4 inch thickness would be acceptable.
>
> 4) I believe that contact between the entire top of the landing gear cros
s
> bar and the flox bed with the elastomeric sheet in between is the best
> (only?) way to install the KIS TR-1 landing gear. This may not be the cas
e
> with the 4 place KIS.
>
> 5) Because of 4 above I do not believe that Grove radius plates can be
> used properly between the top of the landing gear cross bar and the landi
ng
> gear flox bed of the KIS TR-1 fuselage. This may not be true of the 4 pla
ce
> KIS.
>
> http://www.groveaircraft.com/radiusplates.html
>
> 6) While Grove radius plates may be used on only the bottom of the KIS
> TR-1 landing gear cross bar to hold the landing gear cross bar up into th
e
> recess on the bottom of the KIS TR-1 fuselage I question their contributi
ng
> value for that purpose. Note that all of the Grove illustrations and word
s
> have either radius plates or radius blocks paired in use both above and
> below the cross bar.
>
> 7) I could not use the Grove radius blocks to hold the landing gear cross
> bar up into the recess on the bottom of the KIS TR-1 fuselage because non
e
> of the hole spacing in the radius blocks matched the already existing hol
e
> spacing in my KIS TR-1 fuselage recess.
>
> B) =9C....... have you canted the gear forward on your KIS?
=9D
>
> Yes, my flox bed is wedge shaped to accomplish this. See the attached
> spread sheet for measurements. With the flox wedging used to bias the mai
n
> gear forward my landing gear main axles centerlines are at Station 72.25
> inches. Note that page FUS 3-12, dated November 6, 1992, of the Builder
=99s
> Manual calls for the main axles centerlines to be at Station 73.5 inches,
> so I gained a forward movement of 1.25 inches for the main axle location
> with that wedge. I am curious what other KIS TR-1 builders have for their
> main gear centerline locations.
>
> OC
> ========================
=====
> From: Tim Yoder
> Sent: Friday, May 08, 2015 8:02 AM
> To: OC Baker
> Subject: TR-1 gear
>
> Hi OC,
>
> How thick of a Butyl rubber pad do you recommend under the gear and have
> you canted the gear forward on your KIS?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim
>
Message 4
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I don't know where I got this idea but I bought a truck inter-tube and cut
the size I needed and put that between the gear and the fuselage. I made
somewhat of a jig, very crude, to hold the gear at the angle I needed to
cant it forward. Then I used some contact spray and stuck the tube to the
gear, laid down a bed of floxed epoxy, re-positioned the gear with the jig
and then snugged down the gear bolts. This squeezed out some epoxy and I
don't think I have any high spots between the gear and the fuselage. I
don't have all that many landings but I have no sign of things breaking up.
I took it all apart after it hardened and rubbed the rubber down with
silicone grease.
One person's approach,
Jesse
On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 3:34 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
> EXCELLENT info OC. So if I read this right you don't have any plate
> (radius or non radius) between the top of the landing gear cross bar and
> the landing gear flox bed, just the elastomeric sheet. What did you use o
n
> the bottom of the landing gear cross bar?
>
> On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 4:40 PM, Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> 5/8/2015
>>
>> Hello Tim, Thank you for the opportunity to clarify and comment on this
>> subject. You wrote:
>>
>> A) =9CHow thick of a Butyl rubber pad do you recommend under the g
ear.....=9D
>>
>> 1) I never used the term =9Cbutyl rubber pad=9D. Someone els
e attributed that
>> to me. I wrote: =9CDo you have some sort of thin elastomeric sheet
between
>> the top of the landing gear cross bar and the bottom of the fuselage flo
x
>> bed that the cross bar fits up against? This is required to keep the
>> relatively hard aluminum cross bar from crumbling any cured flox high
>> spots.=9D
>>
>> 2) My initial elastomeric pad was a piece of red =9Crubber
=9D farm machinery
>> belting of unknown progeny and Durometer (hardness) purchased from a loc
al
>> hardware store. It eventually wore out and I replaced it. I don=99
t remember
>> the thickness, but there is still a scrap of it lying around someplace t
hat
>> could be measured if anyone cares.
>>
>> 3) I replaced the belting with this from McMaster-Carr: =9C8461K42
3
>> Adhesive-Black Medium-Strength Neoprene Rubber, 1/8=9D Thick, 4
=9D Wide, 36=9D L,
>> Black, 40A Durometer=9D This material was trimmed to fit the entir
e top of
>> the landing gear cross bar where the cross bar came into contact with th
e
>> flox bed on the bottom of the fuselage. I would think that either 1/8 in
ch
>> or 1/4 inch thickness would be acceptable.
>>
>> 4) I believe that contact between the entire top of the landing gear
>> cross bar and the flox bed with the elastomeric sheet in between is the
>> best (only?) way to install the KIS TR-1 landing gear. This may not be t
he
>> case with the 4 place KIS.
>>
>> 5) Because of 4 above I do not believe that Grove radius plates can be
>> used properly between the top of the landing gear cross bar and the land
ing
>> gear flox bed of the KIS TR-1 fuselage. This may not be true of the 4 pl
ace
>> KIS.
>>
>> http://www.groveaircraft.com/radiusplates.html
>>
>> 6) While Grove radius plates may be used on only the bottom of the KIS
>> TR-1 landing gear cross bar to hold the landing gear cross bar up into t
he
>> recess on the bottom of the KIS TR-1 fuselage I question their contribut
ing
>> value for that purpose. Note that all of the Grove illustrations and wor
ds
>> have either radius plates or radius blocks paired in use both above and
>> below the cross bar.
>>
>> 7) I could not use the Grove radius blocks to hold the landing gear cros
s
>> bar up into the recess on the bottom of the KIS TR-1 fuselage because no
ne
>> of the hole spacing in the radius blocks matched the already existing ho
le
>> spacing in my KIS TR-1 fuselage recess.
>>
>> B) =9C....... have you canted the gear forward on your KIS?
=9D
>>
>> Yes, my flox bed is wedge shaped to accomplish this. See the attached
>> spread sheet for measurements. With the flox wedging used to bias the ma
in
>> gear forward my landing gear main axles centerlines are at Station 72.25
>> inches. Note that page FUS 3-12, dated November 6, 1992, of the Builder
=99s
>> Manual calls for the main axles centerlines to be at Station 73.5 inches
,
>> so I gained a forward movement of 1.25 inches for the main axle location
>> with that wedge. I am curious what other KIS TR-1 builders have for thei
r
>> main gear centerline locations.
>>
>> OC
>> ====
>> From: Tim Yoder
>> Sent: Friday, May 08, 2015 8:02 AM
>> To: OC Baker
>> Subject: TR-1 gear
>>
>> Hi OC,
>>
>> How thick of a Butyl rubber pad do you recommend under the gear and have
>> you canted the gear forward on your KIS?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Tim
>>
>
> *
>
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