---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 05/14/15: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:37 AM - Re: Re: Help on this situation. (Galin Hernandez) 2. 11:23 AM - Re: Re: Help on this situation. (M Ketteing) 3. 07:09 PM - Re: Re: Help on this situation. (Robert Reed) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:37:42 AM PST US Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Help on this situation. From: Galin Hernandez I started the disassembling and found that the bolt area I thought was the front one was actually the rear bolt. From what I can tell the damage to the front bolt area isn't nearly as bad as the rear bolt area. Both sides seem to have the same amount of damage with the worst of it to the rear bolt area. I guess when I get the landing gear completely off I will find out. I attached photos of the top part of both the left & right bolts. On Thursday, May 7, 2015, Tim Yoder wrote: > > > > Mark, > > I have a TR-1, is the vital modification you speak of in the last > paragraph, > The wedge canting the gear forward? If it is, how thick is the wedge? > > Thanks, > > Tim KIT#49 > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of > mark_trickel > Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2015 9:34 AM > To: kis-list@matronics.com > Subject: KIS-List: Re: Help on this situation. > > > > > I am a fan of the radius blocks however these things do nothing to absorb > the impact other than facilitating the flexing of the landing gear. If you > use one of these blocks in the stack you will be narrowing the support area > with which the landing gear has to operate within. We already have cracks > and fiber crushing at the bolts I would not want to aggravate the situation > by reducing the support area. > > Attached are two pics from R Reeds site of Harry Herst's TR-4 showing the > width of the surface involved here. You see how wide the Butyl rubber pad > is > - two or three time the width of the radius block. I am pretty sure the > radius block were developed for metal airplanes. A radius block could be > custom designed for the TR-4 but it would be much cheaper to add another > layer of rubber if you were that concerned about the gear being able to > flex. The other pic shows what a good wedge should look like. > > Speaking of the main gear flexing...the term I use because I never > considered aluminum to be springy - believe me these aluminum gears will > flex a hellen. If you left the boots off, and hit hard enough you'd have > black tire marks on the underside of the wings. Really! > > OC - Unfortunately the recess for the landing gear on the TR-1 is too small > and the gear will not fit within the space once it has been canted forward > leaving out the possibility of a radius block....you would be surprised at > the number of builds out there that do not have this vital modification! > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441838#441838 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/tr_4_lg1_752.png > http://forums.matronics.com//files/tr_4_lg2_147.jpg > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > http://www.avast.com > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:23:33 AM PST US From: M Ketteing Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Help on this situation. Hard to tell with the bolts and washers in place. There really should not be all that much load on the aft bolt even with the gear leg slanted forward. Maybe the aft bolt is getting loaded by the rebound flex of the center part of the gear leg. If this is the case radius blocks would be a huge help. Not because of the radius but just because of the added space and clearance on the center part if the gear box. Mark -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 5/14/15, Galin Hernandez wrote: Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Help on this situation. To: "kis-list@matronics.com" Date: Thursday, May 14, 2015, 12:36 PM I started the disassembling and found that the bolt areaI thought was the front one was actuallythe rear bolt. From what Ican tell the damage to thefrontbolt areaisn't nearlyas bad as the rear bolt area. Both sides seem to have the same amount ofdamage withthe worst of itto the rear bolt area. I guess when I get the landing gear completely off I will find out. I attached photos of the top part of boththe left & rightbolts. On Thursday, May 7, 2015, Tim Yoder wrote: "Tim Yoder" Mark, I have a TR-1, is the vital modification you speak of in the last paragraph, The wedge canting the gear forward? If it is, how thick is the wedge? Thanks, Tim KIT#49 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mark_trickel Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2015 9:34 AM To: kis-list@matronics.com Subject: KIS-List: Re: Help on this situation. I am a fan of the radius blocks however these things do nothing to absorb the impact other than facilitating the flexing of the landing gear. If you use one of these blocks in the stack you will be narrowing the support area with which the landing gear has to operate within. We already have cracks and fiber crushing at the bolts I would not want to aggravate the situation by reducing the support area. Attached are two pics from R Reeds site of Harry Herst's TR-4 showing the width of the surface involved here. You see how wide the Butyl rubber pad is - two or three time the width of the radius block. I am pretty sure the radius block were developed for metal airplanes. A radius block could be custom designed for the TR-4 but it would be much cheaper to add another layer of rubber if you were that concerned about the gear being able to flex. The other pic shows what a good wedge should look like. Speaking of the main gear flexing...the term I use because I never considered aluminum to be springy - believe me these aluminum gears will flex a hellen. If you left the boots off, and hit hard enough you'd have black tire marks on the underside of the wings. Really! OC - Unfortunately the recess for the landing gear on the TR-1 is too small and the gear will not fit within the space once it has been canted forward leaving out the possibility of a radius block....you would be surprised at the number of builds out there that do not have this vital modification! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441838#441838 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/tr_4_lg1_752.png http://forums.matronics.com//files/tr_4_lg2_147.jpg --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ========== List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List ========== FORUMS - _blank">http://forums.matronics.com ========== b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:34 PM PST US From: Robert Reed Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Help on this situation. Galin,=C2-The amount of distortion on the washers both front and back on both sides indicates a substantial pull on those bolts resulting either fro m a twisting of the landing gear or from some rebound of the gear following a landing.=C2- Were there rubber pads under all of those washers or were they anchored directly against the fiberglass?=C2- If there were=C2-ru bber pads under the washers, how thick were they?=C2- The ones that are t here look rather thin and would not have allowed much=C2-compression.=C2 - =C2-I seem to remember that I had to order longer bolts to allow for the length needed to include a 1/2 inch=C2-rubber pad under all four wash ers and between the gear and the underside of the fuselage.=C2-After seei ng those washers I am thinking the whole thing needs to be beefed up allow compression of the pads without distortion of the washers by using either t hicker washers or multiple washers.=C2-By the way, any information on vin yl wraps from Sun-N-Fun?=C2-Bob Reed From: Galin Hernandez ow To: "kis-list@matronics.com" Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 11:36 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Help on this situation. I started the disassembling and found that the bolt area=C2-I thought was the front one was actually=C2-the rear bolt. From what I=C2-can tell t he damage to the=C2-front=C2-bolt area=C2-isn't nearly=C2-as bad as the rear bolt area. Both sides seem to have the same amount of=C2-damage with=C2-the worst of it=C2-to the rear bolt area. I guess when I get t he landing gear completely off I will find out. I attached photos of the top part of both=C2-the left & right=C2-bolts. On Thursday, May 7, 2015, Tim Yoder wrote: Mark, I have a TR-1, is the vital modification you speak of in the last paragraph , The wedge canting the gear forward? If it is, how thick is the wedge? Thanks, Tim KIT#49 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mark_trickel Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2015 9:34 AM Subject: KIS-List: Re: Help on this situation. I am a fan of the radius blocks however these things do nothing to absorb the impact other than facilitating the flexing of the landing gear. If you use one of these blocks in the stack you will be narrowing the support area with which the landing gear has to operate within. We already have cracks and fiber crushing at the bolts I would not want to aggravate the situation by reducing the support area. Attached are two pics from R Reeds site of Harry Herst's TR-4 showing the width of the surface involved here. You see how wide the Butyl rubber pad i s - two or three time the width of the radius block. I am pretty sure=C2- t he radius block were developed for metal airplanes. A radius block could be custom designed for the TR-4 but it would be much cheaper to add another layer of rubber if you were that concerned about the gear being able to flex. The other pic shows what a good wedge should look like. Speaking of the main gear flexing...the term I use because I never considered aluminum to be springy - believe me these aluminum gears will flex a hellen. If you left the boots off, and hit hard enough you'd have black tire marks on the underside of the wings. Really! OC - Unfortunately the recess for the landing gear on the TR-1 is too small and the gear will not fit within the space once it has been canted forward leaving out the possibility of a radius block....you would be surprised at the number of builds out there that do not have this vital modification! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441838#441838 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/tr_4_lg1_752.png http://forums.matronics.com//files/tr_4_lg2_147.jpg --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List FORUMS - _blank">http://forums.matronics.com b Site - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.