Today's Message Index:
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1. 03:50 PM - Re: Re: Help on this situation. (Galin Hernandez)
2. 06:08 PM - Re: Re: Help on this situation. (Robert Reed)
3. 08:31 PM - Re: Help on this situation. (Owen Baker)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Help on this situation. |
Bob, I agree that the entire area needs to be beefed up. I am thinking
about putting a 1/4" aluminum or 3/16" steel plate on the top part to
spread the load out over a significantly larger area after the repair.
Something in the order of about 4" on either side. I will also place large
area washers and 1/2" thick rubber pad in the top and bottom as OC
indicated.
I am so sorry but completely forgot to ask about the vinyl wrap while I was
at Sun N Fun. :(
On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 10:09 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote:
> Galin,
>
> The amount of distortion on the washers both front and back on both sides
> indicates a substantial pull on those bolts resulting either from a
> twisting of the landing gear or from some rebound of the gear following a
> landing. Were there rubber pads under all of those washers or were they
> anchored directly against the fiberglass? If there were rubber pads under
> the washers, how thick were they? The ones that are there look rather thin
> and would not have allowed much compression. I seem to remember that I
> had to order longer bolts to allow for the length needed to include a 1/2
> inch rubber pad under all four washers and between the gear and the
> underside of the fuselage.
>
> After seeing those washers I am thinking the whole thing needs to be
> beefed up allow compression of the pads without distortion of the washers
> by using either thicker washers or multiple washers.
>
> By the way, any information on vinyl wraps from Sun-N-Fun?
>
> Bob Reed
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>ow
> *To:* "kis-list@matronics.com" <kis-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 14, 2015 11:36 AM
> *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: Re: Help on this situation.
>
> I started the disassembling and found that the bolt area I thought was the
> front one was actually the rear bolt. From what I can tell the damage to
> the front bolt area isn't nearly as bad as the rear bolt area. Both sides
> seem to have the same amount of damage with the worst of it to the rear
> bolt area. I guess when I get the landing gear completely off I will find
> out.
>
> I attached photos of the top part of both the left & right bolts.
>
>
> On Thursday, May 7, 2015, Tim Yoder <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com> wrote:
>
>
> Mark,
>
> I have a TR-1, is the vital modification you speak of in the last
> paragraph,
> The wedge canting the gear forward? If it is, how thick is the wedge?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim KIT#49
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mark_trickel
> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2015 9:34 AM
> To: kis-list@matronics.com
> Subject: KIS-List: Re: Help on this situation.
>
>
> I am a fan of the radius blocks however these things do nothing to absorb
> the impact other than facilitating the flexing of the landing gear. If you
> use one of these blocks in the stack you will be narrowing the support area
> with which the landing gear has to operate within. We already have cracks
> and fiber crushing at the bolts I would not want to aggravate the situation
> by reducing the support area.
>
> Attached are two pics from R Reeds site of Harry Herst's TR-4 showing the
> width of the surface involved here. You see how wide the Butyl rubber pad
> is
> - two or three time the width of the radius block. I am pretty sure the
> radius block were developed for metal airplanes. A radius block could be
> custom designed for the TR-4 but it would be much cheaper to add another
> layer of rubber if you were that concerned about the gear being able to
> flex. The other pic shows what a good wedge should look like.
>
> Speaking of the main gear flexing...the term I use because I never
> considered aluminum to be springy - believe me these aluminum gears will
> flex a hellen. If you left the boots off, and hit hard enough you'd have
> black tire marks on the underside of the wings. Really!
>
> OC - Unfortunately the recess for the landing gear on the TR-1 is too small
> and the gear will not fit within the space once it has been canted forward
> leaving out the possibility of a radius block....you would be surprised at
> the number of builds out there that do not have this vital modification!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441838#441838
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/tr_4_lg1_752.png
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/tr_4_lg2_147.jpg
>
>
> ---
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Help on this situation. |
Galin,
I agree with beefing up the fiberglass portion but my concern is with the u
pper washer which appears to be subject to deformation even with the rubber
pad.=C2- Once deformed it=C2-will result in=C2-the reduction in the
clamping provided by the bolts.=C2- Once=C2-that happens the slack will
result in more deformation with each=C2-additional landing.=C2- I thin
k you=C2-(we) need to beef up the washers as well but not by making a lar
ger washer but maybe doubling the washers.=C2- You sill want the deflecti
on provided by the rubber pad but don't want to reduce it by using oversize
d washers.=C2-
Hope that made some sense.
No problem on the vinyl wrap, I am going to order some samples and material
s and give it a try.=C2-
Bob
=C2- From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
To: "kis-list@matronics.com" <kis-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Help on this situation.
Bob, I agree that the entire area needs to be beefed up. I am thinking abou
t putting a 1/4" aluminum or 3/16" steel plate on the top part to spread th
e load out over a significantly larger area after the repair. Something in
the order of about 4" on either side. I will also place=C2-large area was
hers and 1/2" thick rubber pad in the top and bottom=C2-as OC indicated.
I am so sorry but completely forgot to ask about the vinyl wrap while I was
at Sun N Fun. :(
On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 10:09 PM, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote:
Galin,=C2-The amount of distortion on the washers both front and back on
both sides indicates a substantial pull on those bolts resulting either fro
m a twisting of the landing gear or from some rebound of the gear following
a landing.=C2- Were there rubber pads under all of those washers or were
they anchored directly against the fiberglass?=C2- If there were=C2-ru
bber pads under the washers, how thick were they?=C2- The ones that are t
here look rather thin and would not have allowed much=C2-compression.=C2
- =C2-I seem to remember that I had to order longer bolts to allow for
the length needed to include a 1/2 inch=C2-rubber pad under all four wash
ers and between the gear and the underside of the fuselage.=C2-After seei
ng those washers I am thinking the whole thing needs to be beefed up allow
compression of the pads without distortion of the washers by using either t
hicker washers or multiple washers.=C2-By the way, any information on vin
yl wraps from Sun-N-Fun?=C2-Bob Reed
From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>ow
To: "kis-list@matronics.com" <kis-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Help on this situation.
I started the disassembling and found that the bolt area=C2-I thought was
the front one was actually=C2-the rear bolt. From what I=C2-can tell t
he damage to the=C2-front=C2-bolt area=C2-isn't nearly=C2-as bad as
the rear bolt area. Both sides seem to have the same amount of=C2-damage
with=C2-the worst of it=C2-to the rear bolt area. I guess when I get t
he landing gear completely off I will find out.
I attached photos of the top part of both=C2-the left & right=C2-bolts.
On Thursday, May 7, 2015, Tim Yoder <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com> wrote:
Mark,
I have a TR-1, is the vital modification you speak of in the last paragraph
,
The wedge canting the gear forward? If it is, how thick is the wedge?
Thanks,
Tim KIT#49
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mark_trickel
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2015 9:34 AM
Subject: KIS-List: Re: Help on this situation.
I am a fan of the radius blocks however these things do nothing to absorb
the impact other than facilitating the flexing of the landing gear. If you
use one of these blocks in the stack you will be narrowing the support area
with which the landing gear has to operate within. We already have cracks
and fiber crushing at the bolts I would not want to aggravate the situation
by reducing the support area.
Attached are two pics from R Reeds site of Harry Herst's TR-4 showing the
width of the surface involved here. You see how wide the Butyl rubber pad i
s
- two or three time the width of the radius block. I am pretty sure=C2- t
he
radius block were developed for metal airplanes. A radius block could be
custom designed for the TR-4 but it would be much cheaper to add another
layer of rubber if you were that concerned about the gear being able to
flex. The other pic shows what a good wedge should look like.
Speaking of the main gear flexing...the term I use because I never
considered aluminum to be springy - believe me these aluminum gears will
flex a hellen. If you left the boots off, and hit hard enough you'd have
black tire marks on the underside of the wings. Really!
OC - Unfortunately the recess for the landing gear on the TR-1 is too small
and the gear will not fit within the space once it has been canted forward
leaving out the possibility of a radius block....you would be surprised at
the number of builds out there that do not have this vital modification!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441838#441838
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tr_4_lg1_752.png
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tr_4_lg2_147.jpg
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com
List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
FORUMS -
_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
b Site -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Help on this situation. |
5/15/2015
Hello Galin, You wrote: =9CI will also place large area washers
and 1/2" thick rubber pad in the top and bottom as OC
indicated.=9D
Just to clarify: The only elastomeric / rubber / neoprene material that
I used in the fastening of my KIS TR-1 aluminum main landing gear to the
groove in the bottom of the fuselage was a single 1/8 or 1/4 inch thick
sheet of such material inserted between the entire top of the cross bar
of the aluminum landing gear and the bottom of the fuselage groove. The
main benefit that I was attempting to achieve with this insertion was to
prevent the hard aluminum cross bar from crushing and crumbling any high
spots that may exist in the wedging flox bed placed between the cross
bar and the fuselage groove.
It should be noted that since the cross bar and elastomeric material was
embedded into the flox wedge while the flox wedge was still wet and
uncured the match up between the surface of the elastomeric material and
the cured flox should have been very intimate.
This clarification is in no way intended to pass judgment on the merits
of placing elastomeric material of any thickness or Durometer (hardness)
in any location on the fastening of aluminum main landing gear on the 4
place KIS airplane.
OC
From: Galin Hernandez
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Help on this situation.
Bob, I agree that the entire area needs to be beefed up. I am thinking
about putting a 1/4" aluminum or 3/16" steel plate on the top part to
spread the load out over a significantly larger area after the repair.
Something in the order of about 4" on either side. I will also place
large area washers and 1/2" thick rubber pad in the top and bottom as OC
indicated.
I am so sorry but completely forgot to ask about the vinyl wrap while I
was at Sun N Fun. :(
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