---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/19/15: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:18 PM - Re: Re: Help on this situation. (Galin Hernandez) 2. 12:40 PM - Re: Re: Help on this situation. (Scott Stearns) 3. 12:53 PM - Lithium battery (Scott Stearns) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:18:28 PM PST US From: Galin Hernandez Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Help on this situation. Since a picture is worth 1,000 words, and it seems I am not doing a very good job of explaining myself, I decided to make a "drawing" of what I am thinking of doing. If everything goes well, I will have an "expert" do the actual repair while I watch and try to help. :) On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 9:07 PM, Robert Reed wrote: > Galin, > > I agree with beefing up the fiberglass portion but my concern is with the > upper washer which appears to be subject to deformation even with the > rubber pad. Once deformed it will result in the reduction in the clamping > provided by the bolts. Once that happens the slack will result in more > deformation with each additional landing. I think you (we) need to beef up > the washers as well but not by making a larger washer but maybe doubling > the washers. You sill want the deflection provided by the rubber pad but > don't want to reduce it by using oversized washers. > > Hope that made some sense. > > No problem on the vinyl wrap, I am going to order some samples and > materials and give it a try. > > Bob > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Galin Hernandez > *To:* "kis-list@matronics.com" > *Sent:* Friday, May 15, 2015 5:50 PM > > *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: Re: Help on this situation. > > Bob, I agree that the entire area needs to be beefed up. I am thinking > about putting a 1/4" aluminum or 3/16" steel plate on the top part to > spread the load out over a significantly larger area after the repair. > Something in the order of about 4" on either side. I will also place large > area washers and 1/2" thick rubber pad in the top and bottom as OC > indicated. > > I am so sorry but completely forgot to ask about the vinyl wrap while I > was at Sun N Fun. :( > > On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 10:09 PM, Robert Reed wrote: > > Galin, > > The amount of distortion on the washers both front and back on both sides > indicates a substantial pull on those bolts resulting either from a > twisting of the landing gear or from some rebound of the gear following a > landing. Were there rubber pads under all of those washers or were they > anchored directly against the fiberglass? If there were rubber pads under > the washers, how thick were they? The ones that are there look rather thin > and would not have allowed much compression. I seem to remember that I > had to order longer bolts to allow for the length needed to include a 1/2 > inch rubber pad under all four washers and between the gear and the > underside of the fuselage. > > After seeing those washers I am thinking the whole thing needs to be > beefed up allow compression of the pads without distortion of the washers > by using either thicker washers or multiple washers. > > By the way, any information on vinyl wraps from Sun-N-Fun? > > Bob Reed > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Galin Hernandez ow > *To:* "kis-list@matronics.com" > *Sent:* Thursday, May 14, 2015 11:36 AM > *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: Re: Help on this situation. > > I started the disassembling and found that the bolt area I thought was the > front one was actually the rear bolt. From what I can tell the damage to > the front bolt area isn't nearly as bad as the rear bolt area. Both sides > seem to have the same amount of damage with the worst of it to the rear > bolt area. I guess when I get the landing gear completely off I will find > out. > > I attached photos of the top part of both the left & right bolts. > > > On Thursday, May 7, 2015, Tim Yoder wrote: > > > Mark, > > I have a TR-1, is the vital modification you speak of in the last > paragraph, > The wedge canting the gear forward? If it is, how thick is the wedge? > > Thanks, > > Tim KIT#49 > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mark_trickel > Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2015 9:34 AM > To: kis-list@matronics.com > Subject: KIS-List: Re: Help on this situation. > > > I am a fan of the radius blocks however these things do nothing to absorb > the impact other than facilitating the flexing of the landing gear. If you > use one of these blocks in the stack you will be narrowing the support area > with which the landing gear has to operate within. We already have cracks > and fiber crushing at the bolts I would not want to aggravate the situation > by reducing the support area. > > Attached are two pics from R Reeds site of Harry Herst's TR-4 showing the > width of the surface involved here. You see how wide the Butyl rubber pad > is > - two or three time the width of the radius block. I am pretty sure the > radius block were developed for metal airplanes. A radius block could be > custom designed for the TR-4 but it would be much cheaper to add another > layer of rubber if you were that concerned about the gear being able to > flex. The other pic shows what a good wedge should look like. > > Speaking of the main gear flexing...the term I use because I never > considered aluminum to be springy - believe me these aluminum gears will > flex a hellen. If you left the boots off, and hit hard enough you'd have > black tire marks on the underside of the wings. Really! > > OC - Unfortunately the recess for the landing gear on the TR-1 is too small > and the gear will not fit within the space once it has been canted forward > leaving out the possibility of a radius block....you would be surprised at > the number of builds out there that do not have this vital modification! > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441838#441838 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/tr_4_lg1_752.png > http://forums.matronics.com//files/tr_4_lg2_147.jpg > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > http://www.avast.com > > > ========== > List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > ========== > FORUMS - > _blank">http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > b Site - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > * > > et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > > > * > > et="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List > el="nofollow" shape="rect">http://forums.matronics.com > _blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:40:47 PM PST US From: Scott Stearns Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Help on this situation. I still highly recommend using the grove radius blocks and not using any ru bber anywhere. =C2- I would use 1/8" aluminum plate instead of steel. =C2 -The steel is a pain to work with and it will rust. =C2-I would also ju st use fiberglass for the repair since carbon can react with metal and it i s difficult to tell if carbon has enough epoxy soaked into it. =C2- Scott From: Galin Hernandez To: "kis-list@matronics.com" Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 12:17 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Help on this situation. Since a picture is worth 1,000 words, and it seems I am not doing a very go od job of explaining myself, I decided to make a "drawing" of what I am thi nking of doing. If everything goes well, I will have=C2-an "expert" do th e actual repair while I watch and try to help. :) On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 9:07 PM, Robert Reed wrote: Galin, I agree with beefing up the fiberglass portion but my concern is with the u pper washer which appears to be subject to deformation even with the rubber pad.=C2- Once deformed it=C2-will result in=C2-the reduction in the clamping provided by the bolts.=C2- Once=C2-that happens the slack will result in more deformation with each=C2-additional landing.=C2- I thin k you=C2-(we) need to beef up the washers as well but not by making a lar ger washer but maybe doubling the washers.=C2- You sill want the deflecti on provided by the rubber pad but don't want to reduce it by using oversize d washers.=C2- Hope that made some sense. No problem on the vinyl wrap, I am going to order some samples and material s and give it a try.=C2- Bob =C2- From: Galin Hernandez To: "kis-list@matronics.com" Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 5:50 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Help on this situation. Bob, I agree that the entire area needs to be beefed up. I am thinking abou t putting a 1/4" aluminum or 3/16" steel plate on the top part to spread th e load out over a significantly larger area after the repair. Something in the order of about 4" on either side. I will also place=C2-large area was hers and 1/2" thick rubber pad in the top and bottom=C2-as OC indicated. I am so sorry but completely forgot to ask about the vinyl wrap while I was at Sun N Fun. :( On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 10:09 PM, Robert Reed wrote: Galin,=C2-The amount of distortion on the washers both front and back on both sides indicates a substantial pull on those bolts resulting either fro m a twisting of the landing gear or from some rebound of the gear following a landing.=C2- Were there rubber pads under all of those washers or were they anchored directly against the fiberglass?=C2- If there were=C2-ru bber pads under the washers, how thick were they?=C2- The ones that are t here look rather thin and would not have allowed much=C2-compression.=C2 - =C2-I seem to remember that I had to order longer bolts to allow for the length needed to include a 1/2 inch=C2-rubber pad under all four wash ers and between the gear and the underside of the fuselage.=C2-After seei ng those washers I am thinking the whole thing needs to be beefed up allow compression of the pads without distortion of the washers by using either t hicker washers or multiple washers.=C2-By the way, any information on vin yl wraps from Sun-N-Fun?=C2-Bob Reed From: Galin Hernandez ow To: "kis-list@matronics.com" Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 11:36 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Help on this situation. I started the disassembling and found that the bolt area=C2-I thought was the front one was actually=C2-the rear bolt. From what I=C2-can tell t he damage to the=C2-front=C2-bolt area=C2-isn't nearly=C2-as bad as the rear bolt area. Both sides seem to have the same amount of=C2-damage with=C2-the worst of it=C2-to the rear bolt area. I guess when I get t he landing gear completely off I will find out. I attached photos of the top part of both=C2-the left & right=C2-bolts. On Thursday, May 7, 2015, Tim Yoder wrote: Mark, I have a TR-1, is the vital modification you speak of in the last paragraph , The wedge canting the gear forward? If it is, how thick is the wedge? Thanks, Tim KIT#49 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mark_trickel Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2015 9:34 AM Subject: KIS-List: Re: Help on this situation. I am a fan of the radius blocks however these things do nothing to absorb the impact other than facilitating the flexing of the landing gear. If you use one of these blocks in the stack you will be narrowing the support area with which the landing gear has to operate within. We already have cracks and fiber crushing at the bolts I would not want to aggravate the situation by reducing the support area. Attached are two pics from R Reeds site of Harry Herst's TR-4 showing the width of the surface involved here. You see how wide the Butyl rubber pad i s - two or three time the width of the radius block. I am pretty sure=C2- t he radius block were developed for metal airplanes. A radius block could be custom designed for the TR-4 but it would be much cheaper to add another layer of rubber if you were that concerned about the gear being able to flex. The other pic shows what a good wedge should look like. Speaking of the main gear flexing...the term I use because I never considered aluminum to be springy - believe me these aluminum gears will flex a hellen. If you left the boots off, and hit hard enough you'd have black tire marks on the underside of the wings. Really! OC - Unfortunately the recess for the landing gear on the TR-1 is too small and the gear will not fit within the space once it has been canted forward leaving out the possibility of a radius block....you would be surprised at the number of builds out there that do not have this vital modification! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441838#441838 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/tr_4_lg1_752.png http://forums.matronics.com//files/tr_4_lg2_147.jpg --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List FORUMS - _blank">http://forums.matronics.com b Site - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution et="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.matronics.com/Navi gator?KIS-List el="nofollow" shape="rect">http://forums.matronics.com _blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">http://www.matronics.com/contributi on et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:53:32 PM PST US From: Scott Stearns Subject: KIS-List: Lithium battery I just put an EarthX Lithium battery in my TR-1. =C2-I replaced an odysse y 680 battery with an earthX =C2-ETX-36, 4 pounds . =C2-The lithium is 12 pounds lighter which really helped my CG. =C2- It cranks the engine li ke crazy. =C2-Engine is an IO-360 with 10:1 compression. =C2-It really cranks it, way better than the lead/acid. =C2- $400 for the ETX-36 with charger. =C2-Not cheap, but it really helped wit h my CG. =C2-=C2- This is the much safer Lithium Iron Phosphate chemistry not the Lithium Cob alt chemistry that Boeing had all the problems with. =C2-The EarthX batte ries have built in logic to balance the cells and protect from over or unde r voltage. =C2-=C2- Scott ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.