Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:05 AM - IO-240 BxB Engine Mount Bushings (Owen Baker)
2. 09:15 AM - Re: IO-240 BxB Engine Mount Bushings (Scott Stearns)
3. 09:57 AM - Re: IO-240 BxB Engine Mount Bushings (Bill Schertz)
4. 10:30 AM - Re: IO-240 BxB Engine Mount Bushings (M Ketteing)
5. 03:54 PM - Re: IO-240 BxB Engine Mount Bushings (Owen Baker)
6. 04:18 PM - Kitplanes Flight Time Article (Owen Baker)
Message 1
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| Subject: | IO-240 BxB Engine Mount Bushings |
9/11/2015
Hello Fellow Owners and Builders of KIS TR-1 Airplanes Powered by the
IO-240 BxB Engine, I am going through another evolution of replacing the
elastomeric bushings in this engine mount because of engine sag.
I am disgusted by the cost, and general non availability of the 638225
elastomeric bushing. This is the center tubular bushing: 1/2 inch inner
diameter, 1 inch outer diameter.**
I am also unhappy with the fact that the elastomeric material in this
bushing is too soft and allows almost immediate engine sag. I am
considering trying to locate some rubber hose with a 1/2 inch inner
diameter and 1 inch outer diameter and cutting it into short lengths and
using that instead of the CM part #638225.
Your comments?
OC
**PS: Another particularly aggravating factor is the difficulty in
installing new elastomeric bushings.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: IO-240 BxB Engine Mount Bushings |
I think it is normal to get some sag soon after installation. =C2-I fitte
d my cowl so the spinner was 1/8 inch above the cowl knowing it was going t
o settle some. =C2-After=C2-flying for about 50 hours it settled to abo
ut 1/8 inch below the cowl. =C2-I put a large area washer under each of t
he lower engine mount points on the firewall and that aligned the spinner a
nd cowl. =C2-That was 200 hours ago and no change.
Scott
From: Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net>
To: KIS-LIST MATRONICS <kis-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 9:05 AM
Subject: KIS-List: IO-240 BxB Engine Mount Bushings
9/11/2015=C2-Hello Fellow Owners and Builders of KIS TR-1 Airplanes Power
ed by the IO-240 BxB Engine, I am going through another evolution of replac
ing the elastomeric bushings in this engine mount because of engine sag.=C2
-I am disgusted by the cost, and general non availability of the 638225 e
lastomeric bushing. This is the center tubular bushing: 1/2 inch inner diam
eter, 1 inch outer diameter.**=C2-I am also unhappy with the fact that th
e elastomeric material in this bushing is too soft and allows almost immedi
ate engine sag. I am considering trying to locate some rubber hose with a 1
/2 inch inner diameter and 1 inch outer diameter and cutting it into short
lengths and using that instead of the CM part #638225.=C2-Your comments?
=C2-OC=C2-**PS: Another particularly aggravating factor is the difficul
ty in installing new elastomeric bushings.=C2-
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: IO-240 BxB Engine Mount Bushings |
Check McMaster Carr for different bushings. They may have something of
use.
From: Owen Baker
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 10:05 AM
Subject: KIS-List: IO-240 BxB Engine Mount Bushings
9/11/2015
Hello Fellow Owners and Builders of KIS TR-1 Airplanes Powered by the
IO-240 BxB Engine, I am going through another evolution of replacing the
elastomeric bushings in this engine mount because of engine sag.
I am disgusted by the cost, and general non availability of the 638225
elastomeric bushing. This is the center tubular bushing: 1/2 inch inner
diameter, 1 inch outer diameter.**
I am also unhappy with the fact that the elastomeric material in this
bushing is too soft and allows almost immediate engine sag. I am
considering trying to locate some rubber hose with a 1/2 inch inner
diameter and 1 inch outer diameter and cutting it into short lengths and
using that instead of the CM part #638225.
Your comments?
OC
**PS: Another particularly aggravating factor is the difficulty in
installing new elastomeric bushings.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: IO-240 BxB Engine Mount Bushings |
Hello OC,
Have you tried looking at airboat suppliers? Many times they have non certified
versions for a lot less money and at times harder versions. At least for the
Lycoming style I use I can get ones that are very hard made from urethane.
Someone on ebay sells Continental bushing adapters that may be of use.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Continental-O-200-to-C-85-Engine-Mount-Adapters-O200-/270845226093
The conical rubber bushings seem to about $22.22 for 8 on ebay:
www.ebay.com/itm/Continental-A65-A75-C75-C85-C90-O-200-engine-mounting-Bushing-P-N-SA22387-/111721088071
Mark
PS: Great Kitplane's article! Back when I was first learning to fly my instructor
told me a trick so that Hobbs time could be used for flight time directly.
He said to as you start let the aircraft move forward a foot so that the aircraft
is no longer in the parking position and has moved under it's own power.
I still do this today mainly as a brake test. Then at shut down do it so that
it is not in the final parking position. This is not really an issue most
of the time anyway since you normally need to push the plane back into it's parking
spot. I think this now meets the FAR's for logging flight time but feel
free to correct me if I am wrong.
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 9/11/15, Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
Subject: KIS-List: IO-240 BxB Engine Mount Bushings
To: "KIS-LIST MATRONICS" <kis-list@matronics.com>
Date: Friday, September 11, 2015, 12:05 PM
9/11/2015
Hello Fellow Owners and Builders of KIS TR-1 Airplanes
Powered by the
IO-240 BxB Engine, I am going through another evolution of
replacing the
elastomeric bushings in this engine mount because of engine
sag.
I am disgusted by the cost, and general non
availability of the 638225
elastomeric bushing. This is the center tubular bushing: 1/2
inch inner
diameter, 1 inch outer diameter.**
I am also unhappy with the fact that the elastomeric
material in this
bushing is too soft and allows almost immediate engine sag.
I am considering
trying to locate some rubber hose with a 1/2 inch inner
diameter and 1 inch
outer diameter and cutting it into short lengths and using
that instead of the
CM part #638225.
Your comments?
OC
**PS: Another particularly aggravating factor is the
difficulty in
installing new elastomeric bushings.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: IO-240 BxB Engine Mount Bushings |
9/11/2015
Hello Mark, Thanks for your input. You wrote:
1) "Have you tried looking at airboat suppliers?"
No, I haven't. I would be willing to look in that direction if you have any
links for me. I am not very optimistic though because the IO-240 BXB is a
relatively recent engine in the CM line and the engine mount bosses on the
IO-240 BXB engine crankcase are different than the engine mount bosses on
the CM O 200 engines and their ilk which have been around a long time.
(Because of the similar external appearance of the O 200 and the IO-240 BXB
engine crankcases I have had many people, including CM factory tech reps,
make erroneous assumptions regarding engine mounting parts for the IO-240
BXB engine.)
2) "Someone on ebay sells Continental bushing adapters that may be of use."
I found that site, including the Form 337 available on it, to be very
interesting. But only of specific value to an O 200 engine and not the
IO-240 BXB engine because of the different crankcase engine mount bosses on
those two engines.
3) "The conical rubber bushings seem to about $22.22 for 8 on ebay:"
That would be a big rip off. Those rubber bushings, CM part number 22387,
suitable for only the O 200 engine and not the IO-240 BXB engine are
available from Aircraft Spruce for $3.55 each. See here:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/enginemountbushings.php?clickkey=3789
But Spruce also has an O 200 conical rubber bushing with part number
07-03493, which I think is identical to part number 22387 for $17.50. See
reference number 4 here:**
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/contmountparts.php?recfer=14540
The comparable conical rubber bushing part made by Lord with for the IO-240
BXB is $17.50 each from Spruce. See here:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/lordenginemountscessna_07-01131.php?clickkey=41076
The CM version of this bushing is numbered 530740 and is available from
Aircraft Specialties for $28.15. See here:
http://www.aircraft-specialties.com/bushing-engine-mount-530740/
And apparently from Spruce for $37.55. See here:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/continentalnewbushing_07-03553.php?clickkey=7487
But enough about the conical rubber bushings -- my heart burn is with the
tubular bushing, part number 638225, which does not properly support the
heavier IO-240 engine, which costs around $70.00 each, and you have to scour
the country side to even find 4 available from any one dealer. See here:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/continentalnewbushing_07-04286.php?clickkey=167508
OC
**PS: Note that the tubular bushing for the O 200 ( Part number 628555-16,
reference number 1 in this diagram) is just exactly what it says -- a chunk
of hose. I wonder how much engineering went into that design.
=============================================
From: M Ketteing
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: IO-240 BxB Engine Mount Bushings
Hello OC,
Have you tried looking at airboat suppliers? Many times they have non
certified versions for a lot less money and at times harder versions. At
least for the Lycoming style I use I can get ones that are very hard made
from urethane.
Someone on ebay sells Continental bushing adapters that may be of use.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Continental-O-200-to-C-85-Engine-Mount-Adapters-O200-/270845226093
The conical rubber bushings seem to about $22.22 for 8 on ebay:
www.ebay.com/itm/Continental-A65-A75-C75-C85-C90-O-200-engine-mounting-Bushing-P-N-SA22387-/111721088071
Mark
PS: Great Kitplane's article! Back when I was first learning to fly my
instructor told me a trick so that Hobbs time could be used for flight time
directly. He said to as you start let the aircraft move forward a foot so
that the aircraft is no longer in the parking position and has moved under
it's own power. I still do this today mainly as a brake test. Then at shut
down do it so that it is not in the final parking position. This is not
really an issue most of the time anyway since you normally need to push the
plane back into it's parking spot. I think this now meets the FAR's for
logging flight time but feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 9/11/15, Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
Subject: KIS-List: IO-240 BxB Engine Mount Bushings
9/11/2015
Hello Fellow Owners and Builders of KIS TR-1 Airplanes
Powered by the
IO-240 BxB Engine, I am going through another evolution of
replacing the
elastomeric bushings in this engine mount because of engine
sag.
I am disgusted by the cost, and general non
availability of the 638225
elastomeric bushing. This is the center tubular bushing: 1/2
inch inner
diameter, 1 inch outer diameter.**
I am also unhappy with the fact that the elastomeric
material in this
bushing is too soft and allows almost immediate engine sag.
I am considering
trying to locate some rubber hose with a 1/2 inch inner
diameter and 1 inch
outer diameter and cutting it into short lengths and using
that instead of the
CM part #638225.
Your comments?
OC
**PS: Another particularly aggravating factor is the
difficulty in
installing new elastomeric bushings.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Kitplanes Flight Time Article |
9/11/2015
Hello Mark, You wrote:
1) "PS: Great Kitplane's article!"
Thank you for the kind words. Apparently you have read the article that I
wrote for Kitplanes magazine on pilot flight time. I have not seen that
issue yet.
2) "I think this now meets the FAR's for logging flight time but feel free
to correct me if I am wrong."
I think that the primary message of my article was that almost nobody kept,
or could keep, pilot flight time in strict compliance with the regulations
so therefore (almost) everybody is doing it wrong. If (almost) everybody is
doing it wrong then we must all be part of one big happy (non compliant)
family and we should enjoy the number that we write down or give out for
pilot flight time and not get all wrapped around the axle about the exact
size of that number.
OC
PS: I have another pending Kitplanes article on maintenance logbooks for EAB
(Experimental Amateur Built Aircraft). Will be looking forward to your (and
others) reaction.
==============================================
From: M Ketteing
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: IO-240 BxB Engine Mount Bushings
Hello OC,
BIG SKIP
Mark
PS: Great Kitplane's article! Back when I was first learning to fly my
instructor told me a trick so that Hobbs time could be used for flight time
directly. He said to as you start let the aircraft move forward a foot so
that the aircraft is no longer in the parking position and has moved under
it's own power. I still do this today mainly as a brake test. Then at shut
down do it so that it is not in the final parking position. This is not
really an issue most of the time anyway since you normally need to push the
plane back into it's parking spot. I think this now meets the FAR's for
logging flight time but feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
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