Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:38 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana Cuba. (Galin Hernandez)
2. 07:44 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana Cuba. (M Ketteing)
3. 08:07 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana Cuba. (Alfred Rosa)
4. 08:47 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana Cuba. (Owen Baker)
5. 02:58 PM - Re: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana Cuba. (Galin Hernandez)
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| Subject: | Re: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana |
Cuba.
Adding to what others have said about IFR equipment certification, even
though "TSO'd" equipment is not required for an EAB, in order to legally
fly GPS IFR the GPS unit it must be certified to TSO-C129 or equivalent as
per AIM 1-1-19. This requirement specifically applies "*for any IFR
operation*" thus making it applicable to EAB aircraft.
The TSO covers much more than just an accurate GPS position source but also
includes the database(s) and error (RAIM) checking. If you can demonstrate
your GPS complies with the requirements of TSO-C129 then you can use it as
a GPS navigation source for your EAB aircraft. However, you will probably
find that if you went through the extensive paperwork required to prove
your GPS complies with the TSO you might as well obtain the TSO,
increase the number of aircraft you can sell to and the point will be moot.
Here are some links that cover this specific issue:
https://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/course_content.aspx?cID=38&sID=247&preview=true
A good discussion on this topic can be found on the DYNON forum:
http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1362597418
ADS-B "OUT" position sources don't have to be TSO's but must still meet the
equivalent (14CFR-91.227 amongst others) requirement. The position
source (doesn't have to be a GPS based) manufacturer must document it meets
the requirements and again is true for all aircraft, not just EAB. The
Catch-22 is that certificated aircraft require an authorization from the
aircraft manufacturer for installation and they all have required TSO'd
equipment. But nothing says you can't install a non TSO'd ADS-B position
source that meets the requirements in a certificated aircraft using an
FAA-337 as long as you have compliance documentation, an A&P or avionics
repair station signs off on it and the local FSDO agrees.
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC%2020-165.pdf
.
Now for navigation based on VOR, LOC, ILS and NDB's the TSO requirement
does not apply to EAB aircraft. Remember, VOR's, NDB's and ILS' were in use
long before TSO certification even existed and some older aircraft still
have working non TSO'd equipment that came with the airplane.
On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 11:11 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
wrote:
> FWIW here is a link to a video my wife took while I had my hands full as
> we approached to land in to Havana.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcCFVaueyqI
>
> On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 9:11 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> The DYNON is not a navigator but flight instruments. The Garmin 430W and
>> the VAL INS-429 are both IFR certified navigation systems. The DYNON
>> provides the flight instruments and displays the navigation data from the
>> G430W with the VAL INS-429 as a completely independent IFR navigator.
>>
>> :)
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 8:39 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Cool panel. I knew you got the 2 Dynon EFIS recently and since they're
>>> not IFR rated thought you were VFR equipped.
>>>
>>> Al
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 6:30 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Al; My airplane is full IFR with triple redundant flight instruments,
>>>> dual redundant certified IFR navigation equipment, two additional non
>>>> certified navigation sources and heated pitot tube. My navigation
>>>> sources are connected to my autopilot and altitude hold module so it can do
>>>> an approach if needed. You can see the instruments on the attached photo
>>>> taken while doing an approach (DME Arc to Rwy15 at MSSS) in actual IMC
>>>> conditions back in 2014.
>>>>
>>>> :)
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Galin,
>>>>> I didn't think your plane was IFR but you say you broke out of the
>>>>> clouds at 800 ft ?
>>>>> Al Rosa
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 13, 2015, at 4:32 PM, "Kent Pyle" <kentpyle@iland.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Galin, This is a real big deal. congratulations. Kent
>>>>> *From:* Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 08, 2015 2:49 PM
>>>>> *To:* kis-list@matronics.com
>>>>> *Subject:* KIS-List: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB
>>>>> into Havana Cuba.
>>>>>
>>>>> I had the privilege of receiving permission from the Cuban Civil
>>>>> Aviation Authority to land my KIS Cruiser EAB (N819PR) in to Havana which
I
>>>>> did on December 4, 2015 thus being, as far as I can tell, the 1st US
>>>>> registered EAB to land in Cuba. As far as I can tell the 1st EAB to arrive
>>>>> in Cuba was a Canadian registered Seawind flown by either Vincent Rossi or
>>>>> Dimitrios Mamais who landed in to Havana sometime between 1996 and 1999.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will get around to doing a write up of the whole trip but I have to
>>>>> figure out my notes first. In the mean time here is a link to a photobucket
>>>>> album showing how bad the weather was when we arrived. We didn't have any
>>>>> lightning just torrential rain and a bumpy ride. We saw the runway lights
>>>>> at about 1,200ft and finally broke out about 800ft.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/ghrmsr/library/1st%20US%20Experimental%20to%20Havana
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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| Subject: | Re: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana |
Cuba.
Good thing the the AIM and Advisory Circulars (and Dynon web page) are informational
and not regulations. Or your "system" would not be legal for use IFR.
Keep in mind that for the TSO-C129 GPS to meet the TSO it must be connected to
an approved CDI, etc. So you would need to look up what CDI's have been approved
(when Garmin got the TSO they made a required list) for your make and model
GPS and use one of those. Dynon is not one of those, hence the TSO-C129 is
not valid for your installation.
As the owner/builder you do need to make sure your "system" meets the applicable
requirements of TSO-C129 or similar but absolutely there is no regulation that
it needs to be certified to meet TSO-C129 or others nor is there a requirement
to prove it, unless there is an enforcement issue due to a demonstrated problem.
The whole point being is the owner/builder/pilot is the responsible party.
But as I said before you will get a different answer from everyone you ask.
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 12/14/15, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana
Cuba.
To: "kis-list@matronics.com" <kis-list@matronics.com>
Date: Monday, December 14, 2015, 9:36 AM
Adding to what others have said about IFR
equipment certification, even though "TSO'd"
equipment is not required for an EAB, in order to legally
fly GPS IFRthe GPS unit it must be certified to TSO-C129
or equivalent as per AIM 1-1-19. This requirement
specifically applies "for any IFR
operation" thusmaking it applicable toEAB
aircraft.
The TSO
coversmuch more than just an accurateGPS position source
but also includes the database(s) and error (RAIM) checking.
If you can demonstrate your GPS complies with the
requirements of TSO-C129 then you can use it as a GPS
navigation source for your EAB aircraft. However, you will
probably find that if you went through the extensive
paperwork required to prove your GPS complies with the TSO
you might as well obtain the TSO, increasethe number of
aircraft you can sell toand the point will be
moot.
Here are some
links that cover this specific issue:https://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/course_content.aspx?cID=38&sID=247&preview=true
A good discussion on this topic can
be found on the DYNON forum: http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1362597418
ADS-B "OUT" position
sources don't have to beTSO's but must still meet
the equivalent (14CFR-91.227 amongst others)requirement.
The position source(doesn't have to be a GPS based)
manufacturer must document itmeets the requirements and
again is true for all aircraft, not just EAB. The Catch-22
is that certificated aircraft require an authorization from
the aircraft manufacturer for installation and they
allhaverequired TSO'd equipment. But nothing says
you can't install a non TSO'd ADS-B position source
that meets the requirements in a certificated aircraft using
an FAA-337 as long as you have compliance documentation, an
A&P or avionics repair station signs off on it and the
local FSDO agrees.
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC%2020-165.pdf.Now
for navigation based on VOR, LOC, ILS and NDB'sthe TSO
requirement does not apply to EAB aircraft. Remember,
VOR's, NDB's and ILS' were in use long
beforeTSOcertification even existed and someolder
aircraft still haveworking non TSO'd equipment that
came with the airplane.
On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at
11:11 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
wrote:
FWIW here is a link to a video my wife took
while I had my hands fullas we approached to land in to
Havana.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcCFVaueyqI
On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at
9:11 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
wrote:
The DYNON is notanavigator but
flightinstruments.The Garmin 430W and the VAL INS-429
are both IFR certified navigation systems. The DYNON
provides the flight instruments and displays the navigation
data from the G430W with the VAL INS-429 as acompletely
independent IFR navigator.
:)
On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at
8:39 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com>
wrote:
Cool panel. I knew you got the 2 Dynon EFIS
recently and since they're not IFR rated thought you
were VFR equipped.
Al
On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at
6:30 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
wrote:
Al; My airplane is full IFR with triple
redundant flightinstruments, dual redundant certified IFR
navigation equipment,two additional non certified
navigation sources and heated pitot tube. My navigation
sourcesare connected to my autopilot and altitude hold
module so it can do an approach if needed. You can see the
instruments on the attached photo taken while doing
anapproach (DME Arc to Rwy15 at MSSS) in actual IMC
conditions back in 2014.
:)
On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at
5:26 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com>
wrote:
Galin,I
didn't think your plane was IFR but you say you broke
out of the clouds at 800 ft ?Al
Rosa
Sent from my
iPhone
On Dec 13, 2015,
at 4:32 PM, "Kent Pyle" <kentpyle@iland.net>
wrote:
Galin, This is a real big deal. congratulations.
Kent
From: Galin
Hernandez
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 2:49 PM
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Subject: KIS-List: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st
US Registered EAB
into Havana Cuba.
I had the privilege of receiving permission from the
Cuban Civil Aviation
Authority to land my KIS Cruiser EAB (N819PR) in to Havana
which I did on
December 4, 2015 thus being, as far as I can tell, the 1st
US registered EAB to
land in Cuba. As far as I can tell the 1st EAB to arrive in
Cuba was a Canadian
registered Seawind flown by either Vincent Rossi or
Dimitrios Mamais who landed
in to Havana sometime between 1996 and 1999.
I will get around to doing a write up of the whole trip
but I have to
figure out my notes first. In the mean time here is a link
to a photobucket
album showing how bad the weather was when we arrived. We
didn't have any
lightning just torrential rain and a bumpy ride. We saw the
runway lights at
about 1,200ft and finally broke out about 800ft.
http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/ghrmsr/library/1st%20US%20Experimental%20to%20Havana
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana |
Cuba.
Wow, a post that would make OC Baker proud. Thanks.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 14, 2015, at 9:36 AM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Adding to what others have said about IFR equipment certification, even th
ough "TSO'd" equipment is not required for an EAB, in order to legally fly G
PS IFR the GPS unit it must be certified to TSO-C129 or equivalent as per AI
M 1-1-19. This requirement specifically applies "for any IFR operation" thus
making it applicable to EAB aircraft.
>
> The TSO covers much more than just an accurate GPS position source but als
o includes the database(s) and error (RAIM) checking. If you can demonstrate
your GPS complies with the requirements of TSO-C129 then you can use it as a
GPS navigation source for your EAB aircraft. However, you will probably fi
nd that if you went through the extensive paperwork required to prove your G
PS complies with the TSO you might as well obtain the TSO, increase the numb
er of aircraft you can sell to and the point will be moot.
>
> Here are some links that cover this specific issue:
> https://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/course_content.aspx?cID=38&sID=247
&preview=true
>
> A good discussion on this topic can be found on the DYNON forum:
> http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1362597418
>
> ADS-B "OUT" position sources don't have to be TSO's but must still meet th
e equivalent (14CFR-91.227 amongst others) requirement. The position source (
doesn't have to be a GPS based) manufacturer must document it meets the requ
irements and again is true for all aircraft, not just EAB. The Catch-22 is t
hat certificated aircraft require an authorization from the aircraft manufac
turer for installation and they all have required TSO'd equipment. But nothi
ng says you can't install a non TSO'd ADS-B position source that meets the r
equirements in a certificated aircraft using an FAA-337 as long as you have c
ompliance documentation, an A&P or avionics repair station signs off on it a
nd the local FSDO agrees.
>
> http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC%2020-165.pdf
> .
> Now for navigation based on VOR, LOC, ILS and NDB's the TSO requirement do
es not apply to EAB aircraft. Remember, VOR's, NDB's and ILS' were in use lo
ng before TSO certification even existed and some older aircraft still have w
orking non TSO'd equipment that came with the airplane.
>
>> On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 11:11 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wr
ote:
>> FWIW here is a link to a video my wife took while I had my hands full as w
e approached to land in to Havana.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcCFVaueyqI
>>
>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 9:11 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wr
ote:
>>> The DYNON is not a navigator but flight instruments. The Garmin 430W and
the VAL INS-429 are both IFR certified navigation systems. The DYNON provid
es the flight instruments and displays the navigation data from the G430W wi
th the VAL INS-429 as a completely independent IFR navigator.
>>>
>>> :)
>>>
>>>> On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 8:39 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com> wrot
e:
>>>> Cool panel. I knew you got the 2 Dynon EFIS recently and since they'r
e not IFR rated thought you were VFR equipped.
>>>>
>>>> Al
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 6:30 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> w
rote:
>>>>> Al; My airplane is full IFR with triple redundant flight instruments,
dual redundant certified IFR navigation equipment, two additional non certi
fied navigation sources and heated pitot tube. My navigation sources are con
nected to my autopilot and altitude hold module so it can do an approach if n
eeded. You can see the instruments on the attached photo taken while doing a
n approach (DME Arc to Rwy15 at MSSS) in actual IMC conditions back in 2014.
>>>>>
>>>>> :)
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com> wr
ote:
>>>>>> Galin,
>>>>>> I didn't think your plane was IFR but you say you broke out of the cl
ouds at 800 ft ?
>>>>>> Al Rosa
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Dec 13, 2015, at 4:32 PM, "Kent Pyle" <kentpyle@iland.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Galin, This is a real big deal. congratulations. Kent
>>>>>>> From: Galin Hernandez
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 2:49 PM
>>>>>>> To: kis-list@matronics.com
>>>>>>> Subject: KIS-List: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB int
o Havana Cuba.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I had the privilege of receiving permission from the Cuban Civil Avi
ation Authority to land my KIS Cruiser EAB (N819PR) in to Havana which I did
on December 4, 2015 thus being, as far as I can tell, the 1st US registered
EAB to land in Cuba. As far as I can tell the 1st EAB to arrive in Cuba was
a Canadian registered Seawind flown by either Vincent Rossi or Dimitrios Ma
mais who landed in to Havana sometime between 1996 and 1999.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I will get around to doing a write up of the whole trip but I have t
o figure out my notes first. In the mean time here is a link to a photobucke
t album showing how bad the weather was when we arrived. We didn't have any l
ightning just torrential rain and a bumpy ride. We saw the runway lights at a
bout 1,200ft and finally broke out about 800ft.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/ghrmsr/library/1st%20US%20Experime
ntal%20to%20Havana
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana |
Cuba.
12/14/2015
Hello Al, either proud or slightly overwhelmed. I=99ll need a few
days (weeks?) to digest both Galin=99s post and Mark=99s
response.
OC
PS: A person may be able to handle one slippery eel. A person may be
even able to handle one whole bucket full of slippery eels. But
when it comes to handling many buckets of slippery eels even the most
sure handed person is going to be challenged.
From: Alfred Rosa
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2015 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB
into Havana Cuba.
Wow, a post that would make OC Baker proud. Thanks.
Sent from my iPhone
=====================
On Dec 14, 2015, at 9:36 AM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
Adding to what others have said about IFR equipment certification,
even though "TSO'd" equipment is not required for an EAB, in order to
legally fly GPS IFR the GPS unit it must be certified to TSO-C129 or
equivalent as per AIM 1-1-19. This requirement specifically applies "for
any IFR operation" thus making it applicable to EAB aircraft.
The TSO covers much more than just an accurate GPS position source but
also includes the database(s) and error (RAIM) checking. If you can
demonstrate your GPS complies with the requirements of TSO-C129 then you
can use it as a GPS navigation source for your EAB aircraft. However,
you will probably find that if you went through the extensive paperwork
required to prove your GPS complies with the TSO you might as well
obtain the TSO, increase the number of aircraft you can sell to and the
point will be moot.
Here are some links that cover this specific issue:
https://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/course_content.aspx?cID=38&sID=24
7&preview=true
A good discussion on this topic can be found on the DYNON forum:
http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1362597418
ADS-B "OUT" position sources don't have to be TSO's but must still
meet the equivalent (14CFR-91.227 amongst others) requirement. The
position source (doesn't have to be a GPS based) manufacturer must
document it meets the requirements and again is true for all aircraft,
not just EAB. The Catch-22 is that certificated aircraft require an
authorization from the aircraft manufacturer for installation and they
all have required TSO'd equipment. But nothing says you can't install a
non TSO'd ADS-B position source that meets the requirements in a
certificated aircraft using an FAA-337 as long as you have compliance
documentation, an A&P or avionics repair station signs off on it and the
local FSDO agrees.
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC%2020-165.pd
f
.
Now for navigation based on VOR, LOC, ILS and NDB's the TSO
requirement does not apply to EAB aircraft. Remember, VOR's, NDB's and
ILS' were in use long before TSO certification even existed and some
older aircraft still have working non TSO'd equipment that came with the
airplane.
=======
From: M Ketteing
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2015 10:43 AM
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB
into Havana Cuba.
Good thing the the AIM and Advisory Circulars (and Dynon web page) are
informational and not regulations. Or your "system" would not be legal
for use IFR. Keep in mind that for the TSO-C129 GPS to meet the TSO it
must be connected to an approved CDI, etc. So you would need to look up
what CDI's have been approved (when Garmin got the TSO they made a
required list) for your make and model GPS and use one of those. Dynon
is not one of those, hence the TSO-C129 is not valid for your
installation.
As the owner/builder you do need to make sure your "system" meets the
applicable requirements of TSO-C129 or similar but absolutely there is
no regulation that it needs to be certified to meet TSO-C129 or others
nor is there a requirement to prove it, unless there is an enforcement
issue due to a demonstrated problem.
The whole point being is the owner/builder/pilot is the responsible
party.
But as I said before you will get a different answer from everyone you
ask.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into Havana |
Cuba.
Well, yes and no at the same time. The Garmin 430W navigation box complies
with the TSO but the TSO does not specify which external display must be
used only that it have an external display with certain features. The
Supplemental Type Certificate (STC) Garmin obtained for specific airframes
indicates which external displays can be used and the displays can be
different depending on airframe. Since an EAB does not have a type
certificate, there is no supplement for a non-existent certificate the
specific equipment list Garmin provides in their STC(s) not apply. The
airframe STC is a different animal from equipment TSO requirement.
This brings us right back to the fact that if the equipment (in this case
the external display) meets the requirements of the TSO it can be used in
an EAB as long as the manufacturer has documentation proving this. DYNON
has repeatedly stated the SkyView external display meets the requirement,
have the documentation on file and the FAA is fine with it. This is why you
can use the DYNON or any other EFIS (Garmin G3X for example) external
display in an EAB and still be legal to fly GPS IFR with it. This
requirement does not apply to the VOR, ILS, LOC or NDB receivers, just GPS
Navigators.
In my specific case, in addition to the SkyView EFIS I have a TSO'd VAL
INS-429 unit that is also an external navigation information display. I can
actually display my G430W information on both the DYNON SkyView and the VAL
INS-429 at the same time. This way I have two independent external displays
for my G430W, one TSO'd and the other non-TSO'd. Since I fly real IFR I did
this as part of my multiple redundancy quest not just to make sure I
complied with the FAA.
On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 11:46 AM, Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
> 12/14/2015
>
> Hello Al, either proud or slightly overwhelmed. I=99ll need a few d
ays
> (weeks?) to digest both Galin=99s post and Mark=99s response.
>
> OC
>
> PS: A person may be able to handle one slippery eel. A person may be even
> able to handle one whole bucket full of slippery eels. But
> when it comes to handling many buckets of slippery eels even the most sur
e
> handed person is going to be challenged.
>
> ========================
===========
>
> *From:* Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, December 14, 2015 11:07 AM
> *To:* kis-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB
> into Havana Cuba.
>
> Wow, a post that would make OC Baker proud. Thanks.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> ========================
======================
>
> On Dec 14, 2015, at 9:36 AM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Adding to what others have said about IFR equipment certification, even
> though "TSO'd" equipment is not required for an EAB, in order to legally
> fly GPS IFR the GPS unit it must be certified to TSO-C129 or equivalent a
s
> per AIM 1-1-19. This requirement specifically applies "*for any IFR
> operation*" thus making it applicable to EAB aircraft.
>
> The TSO covers much more than just an accurate GPS position source but
> also includes the database(s) and error (RAIM) checking. If you can
> demonstrate your GPS complies with the requirements of TSO-C129 then you
> can use it as a GPS navigation source for your EAB aircraft. However, yo
u
> will probably find that if you went through the extensive paperwork
> required to prove your GPS complies with the TSO you might as well obtain
> the TSO, increase the number of aircraft you can sell to and the point wi
ll
> be moot.
>
> Here are some links that cover this specific issue:
>
> https://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/course_content.aspx?cID=38&sID=24
7&preview=true
>
> A good discussion on this topic can be found on the DYNON forum:
> http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1362597418
>
> ADS-B "OUT" position sources don't have to be TSO's but must still meet
> the equivalent (14CFR-91.227 amongst others) requirement. The position
> source (doesn't have to be a GPS based) manufacturer must document it mee
ts
> the requirements and again is true for all aircraft, not just EAB. The
> Catch-22 is that certificated aircraft require an authorization from the
> aircraft manufacturer for installation and they all have required TSO'd
> equipment. But nothing says you can't install a non TSO'd ADS-B position
> source that meets the requirements in a certificated aircraft using an
> FAA-337 as long as you have compliance documentation, an A&P or avionics
> repair station signs off on it and the local FSDO agrees.
>
> http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC%2020-165.pd
f
> .
> Now for navigation based on VOR, LOC, ILS and NDB's the TSO requirement
> does not apply to EAB aircraft. Remember, VOR's, NDB's and ILS' were in u
se
> long before TSO certification even existed and some older aircraft still
> have working non TSO'd equipment that came with the airplane.
>
> ========================
========
>
> From: M Ketteing
> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2015 10:43 AM
> To: kis-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Cruiser becomes the 1st US Registered EAB into
> Havana Cuba.
>
>
> Good thing the the AIM and Advisory Circulars (and Dynon web page) are
> informational and not regulations. Or your "system" would not be legal f
or
> use IFR. Keep in mind that for the TSO-C129 GPS to meet the TSO it must
be
> connected to an approved CDI, etc. So you would need to look up what CDI
's
> have been approved (when Garmin got the TSO they made a required list) fo
r
> your make and model GPS and use one of those. Dynon is not one of those,
> hence the TSO-C129 is not valid for your installation.
>
> As the owner/builder you do need to make sure your "system" meets the
> applicable requirements of TSO-C129 or similar but absolutely there is no
> regulation that it needs to be certified to meet TSO-C129 or others nor i
s
> there a requirement to prove it, unless there is an enforcement issue due
> to a demonstrated problem.
>
> The whole point being is the owner/builder/pilot is the responsible party
.
>
> But as I said before you will get a different answer from everyone you as
k.
>
>
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