Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:52 AM - Re: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo (Galin Hernandez)
2. 11:45 AM - Re: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo (Tim Yoder)
3. 01:39 PM - Re: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo (Bill Schertz)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo |
*On July 21, 2014 the nose gear on my TR-4 failed just as I exited the
runway. The landings (three that day) were super smooth, which is not very
common for me. The front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When I went
to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then failed which let
the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left. Once the assembly was
180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold the stress, it failed and the
whole thing collapsed. The a new nose gear assembly was replaced but with
shear bolts instead of a stainless steel pin, a major overhaul was done on
the engine and installed a new CATTO 3 bladed composite propeller.* There
was a lot of posting on the forum during the repairs.
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=104460
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 10:59 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com> wrote:
> What happened with your nose gear?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 1, 2016, at 6:32 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Al; here is the photo of the area in question as seen from the inside. I
> wonder if it could be an undetected problem stemming from the nose gear
> failure of 2014. I am concerned at what could have caused the issue so I
> can make sure it won't happen again.
>
> On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Make sure you rough the area good using 60 grit paper. See if you can
>> force the joint open a bit with a blade or something and squeeze some resin
>> into it from inside the fuselage. You can make one patch of 4 or more plys
>> and slap it on. There are no shear forces so it needn't be outrages. I
>> don't think you need to do anything to the outside other than cosmetic
>> work. You can always add some glass to the outside if the separation
>> reoccurs.
>> I don't think this was ever a dangerous structural failure.
>>
>> Al Rosa
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Here is a photo of where the separation is happening as seen from inside
>>> the cockpit on the pilot side. In order to get the picture I had to clean
>>> and sand the area which was not fun. Even then, the separation is very hard
>>> to see but you can feel it with your finger. Al Rosa correctly noted it was
>>> almost perfectly aligned to where the top engine bolt enters the firewall.
>>> I drew a line to highlight where the separation is happening.
>>>
>>> I first noticed it about 30hrs ago but thought it was a paint defect not
>>> a fiberglass one. I wonder why it suddenly appeared after all these years
>>> and with so many hours flown? I also wonder if it could have something to
>>> do with the nose gear failure I had back in 2014? Do you guys think a good
>>> structural repair can be done in such a hard to get area. ARGHHHHHHH
>>>
>>
>>
> <Separation Left Inside View.jpg>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Fuselage Separation Inside Photo |
Galin,
I would put at least one light weight fiberglass layer over the exterior
separation prior to final refinish. The open seam will most likely cause the
paint to open up again. you might want to leave the exterior untouched until
you have flown your plane several hours post interior lay-ups in order to
confirm that the exterior crack is not growing, confirming that the repair
was successful.
Tim
_____
From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 4:52 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo
On July 21, 2014 the nose gear on my TR-4 failed just as I exited the
runway. The landings (three that day) were super smooth, which is not very
common for me. The front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When I went
to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then failed which let
the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left. Once the assembly was
180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold the stress, it failed and the
whole thing collapsed. The a new nose gear assembly was replaced but with
shear bolts instead of a stainless steel pin, a major overhaul was done on
the engine and installed a new CATTO 3 bladed composite propeller. There was
a lot of posting on the forum during the repairs.
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=104460
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 10:59 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com> wrote:
What happened with your nose gear?
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 1, 2016, at 6:32 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
Al; here is the photo of the area in question as seen from the inside. I
wonder if it could be an undetected problem stemming from the nose gear
failure of 2014. I am concerned at what could have caused the issue so I can
make sure it won't happen again.
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com> wrote:
Make sure you rough the area good using 60 grit paper. See if you can force
the joint open a bit with a blade or something and squeeze some resin into
it from inside the fuselage. You can make one patch of 4 or more plys and
slap it on. There are no shear forces so it needn't be outrages. I don't
think you need to do anything to the outside other than cosmetic work. You
can always add some glass to the outside if the separation reoccurs.
I don't think this was ever a dangerous structural failure.
Al Rosa
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
Here is a photo of where the separation is happening as seen from inside the
cockpit on the pilot side. In order to get the picture I had to clean and
sand the area which was not fun. Even then, the separation is very hard to
see but you can feel it with your finger. Al Rosa correctly noted it was
almost perfectly aligned to where the top engine bolt enters the firewall. I
drew a line to highlight where the separation is happening.
I first noticed it about 30hrs ago but thought it was a paint defect not a
fiberglass one. I wonder why it suddenly appeared after all these years and
with so many hours flown? I also wonder if it could have something to do
with the nose gear failure I had back in 2014? Do you guys think a good
structural repair can be done in such a hard to get area. ARGHHHHHHH
<Separation Left Inside View.jpg>
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo |
Let me chime in on this also. I believe that you need to fill the void
between the separated layers, or it provides a place for the crack to
propagate from. To do this, use a 1/8=9D drill, and drill from the
outside through the outer layer in several places. Then load a syringe
or caulking gun with (warm so it is fluid) Hysol. place the tip against
an end hole, and pump in the adhesive till it comes out the other end. I
have done this with epoxy on some layups that ended up with an included
bubble that needed to be filled and it worked surprisingly well. It may
also be useful to use a hair dryer (not a high temp heat gun) to warm
the surface so the adhesive will flow better.
Your drilled holes will be covered by the applied layer of fiberglass
referred to by Tim
Bill Schertz
From: Tim Yoder
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 12:44 PM
Subject: RE: KIS-List: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo
Galin,
I would put at least one light weight fiberglass layer over the exterior
separation prior to final refinish. The open seam will most likely cause
the paint to open up again. you might want to leave the exterior
untouched until you have flown your plane several hours post interior
lay-ups in order to confirm that the exterior crack is not growing,
confirming that the repair was successful.
Tim
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin
Hernandez
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 4:52 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo
On July 21, 2014 the nose gear on my TR-4 failed just as I exited the
runway. The landings (three that day) were super smooth, which is not
very common for me. The front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When
I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then failed
which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left. Once the
assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold the stress,
it failed and the whole thing collapsed. The a new nose gear assembly
was replaced but with shear bolts instead of a stainless steel pin, a
major overhaul was done on the engine and installed a new CATTO 3 bladed
composite propeller. There was a lot of posting on the forum during the
repairs.
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=104460
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 10:59 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com>
wrote:
What happened with your nose gear?
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 1, 2016, at 6:32 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com>
wrote:
Al; here is the photo of the area in question as seen from the
inside. I wonder if it could be an undetected problem stemming from the
nose gear failure of 2014. I am concerned at what could have caused the
issue so I can make sure it won't happen again.
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa@gmail.com>
wrote:
Make sure you rough the area good using 60 grit paper. See if you
can force the joint open a bit with a blade or something and squeeze
some resin into it from inside the fuselage. You can make one patch of
4 or more plys and slap it on. There are no shear forces so it needn't
be outrages. I don't think you need to do anything to the outside other
than cosmetic work. You can always add some glass to the outside if the
separation reoccurs.
I don't think this was ever a dangerous structural failure.
Al Rosa
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Galin Hernandez
<galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
Here is a photo of where the separation is happening as seen
from inside the cockpit on the pilot side. In order to get the picture I
had to clean and sand the area which was not fun. Even then, the
separation is very hard to see but you can feel it with your finger. Al
Rosa correctly noted it was almost perfectly aligned to where the top
engine bolt enters the firewall. I drew a line to highlight where the
separation is happening.
I first noticed it about 30hrs ago but thought it was a paint
defect not a fiberglass one. I wonder why it suddenly appeared after all
these years and with so many hours flown? I also wonder if it could have
something to do with the nose gear failure I had back in 2014? Do you
guys think a good structural repair can be done in such a hard to get
area. ARGHHHHHHH
<Separation Left Inside View.jpg>
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