---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/02/16: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:52 AM - Re: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo (Galin Hernandez) 2. 11:45 AM - Re: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo (Tim Yoder) 3. 01:39 PM - Re: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo (Bill Schertz) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:24 AM PST US From: Galin Hernandez Subject: Re: KIS-List: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo *On July 21, 2014 the nose gear on my TR-4 failed just as I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were super smooth, which is not very common for me. The front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left. Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed. The a new nose gear assembly was replaced but with shear bolts instead of a stainless steel pin, a major overhaul was done on the engine and installed a new CATTO 3 bladed composite propeller.* There was a lot of posting on the forum during the repairs. http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=104460 On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 10:59 PM, Alfred Rosa wrote: > What happened with your nose gear? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 1, 2016, at 6:32 PM, Galin Hernandez wrote: > > Al; here is the photo of the area in question as seen from the inside. I > wonder if it could be an undetected problem stemming from the nose gear > failure of 2014. I am concerned at what could have caused the issue so I > can make sure it won't happen again. > > On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Alfred Rosa wrote: > >> Make sure you rough the area good using 60 grit paper. See if you can >> force the joint open a bit with a blade or something and squeeze some resin >> into it from inside the fuselage. You can make one patch of 4 or more plys >> and slap it on. There are no shear forces so it needn't be outrages. I >> don't think you need to do anything to the outside other than cosmetic >> work. You can always add some glass to the outside if the separation >> reoccurs. >> I don't think this was ever a dangerous structural failure. >> >> Al Rosa >> >> On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Galin Hernandez >> wrote: >> >>> Here is a photo of where the separation is happening as seen from inside >>> the cockpit on the pilot side. In order to get the picture I had to clean >>> and sand the area which was not fun. Even then, the separation is very hard >>> to see but you can feel it with your finger. Al Rosa correctly noted it was >>> almost perfectly aligned to where the top engine bolt enters the firewall. >>> I drew a line to highlight where the separation is happening. >>> >>> I first noticed it about 30hrs ago but thought it was a paint defect not >>> a fiberglass one. I wonder why it suddenly appeared after all these years >>> and with so many hours flown? I also wonder if it could have something to >>> do with the nose gear failure I had back in 2014? Do you guys think a good >>> structural repair can be done in such a hard to get area. ARGHHHHHHH >>> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:45:13 AM PST US From: "Tim Yoder" Subject: RE: KIS-List: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo Galin, I would put at least one light weight fiberglass layer over the exterior separation prior to final refinish. The open seam will most likely cause the paint to open up again. you might want to leave the exterior untouched until you have flown your plane several hours post interior lay-ups in order to confirm that the exterior crack is not growing, confirming that the repair was successful. Tim _____ From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 4:52 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo On July 21, 2014 the nose gear on my TR-4 failed just as I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were super smooth, which is not very common for me. The front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left. Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed. The a new nose gear assembly was replaced but with shear bolts instead of a stainless steel pin, a major overhaul was done on the engine and installed a new CATTO 3 bladed composite propeller. There was a lot of posting on the forum during the repairs. http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=104460 On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 10:59 PM, Alfred Rosa wrote: What happened with your nose gear? Sent from my iPhone On Aug 1, 2016, at 6:32 PM, Galin Hernandez wrote: Al; here is the photo of the area in question as seen from the inside. I wonder if it could be an undetected problem stemming from the nose gear failure of 2014. I am concerned at what could have caused the issue so I can make sure it won't happen again. On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Alfred Rosa wrote: Make sure you rough the area good using 60 grit paper. See if you can force the joint open a bit with a blade or something and squeeze some resin into it from inside the fuselage. You can make one patch of 4 or more plys and slap it on. There are no shear forces so it needn't be outrages. I don't think you need to do anything to the outside other than cosmetic work. You can always add some glass to the outside if the separation reoccurs. I don't think this was ever a dangerous structural failure. Al Rosa On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Galin Hernandez wrote: Here is a photo of where the separation is happening as seen from inside the cockpit on the pilot side. In order to get the picture I had to clean and sand the area which was not fun. Even then, the separation is very hard to see but you can feel it with your finger. Al Rosa correctly noted it was almost perfectly aligned to where the top engine bolt enters the firewall. I drew a line to highlight where the separation is happening. I first noticed it about 30hrs ago but thought it was a paint defect not a fiberglass one. I wonder why it suddenly appeared after all these years and with so many hours flown? I also wonder if it could have something to do with the nose gear failure I had back in 2014? Do you guys think a good structural repair can be done in such a hard to get area. ARGHHHHHHH --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:39:28 PM PST US From: "Bill Schertz" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo Let me chime in on this also. I believe that you need to fill the void between the separated layers, or it provides a place for the crack to propagate from. To do this, use a 1/8=9D drill, and drill from the outside through the outer layer in several places. Then load a syringe or caulking gun with (warm so it is fluid) Hysol. place the tip against an end hole, and pump in the adhesive till it comes out the other end. I have done this with epoxy on some layups that ended up with an included bubble that needed to be filled and it worked surprisingly well. It may also be useful to use a hair dryer (not a high temp heat gun) to warm the surface so the adhesive will flow better. Your drilled holes will be covered by the applied layer of fiberglass referred to by Tim Bill Schertz From: Tim Yoder Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 12:44 PM Subject: RE: KIS-List: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo Galin, I would put at least one light weight fiberglass layer over the exterior separation prior to final refinish. The open seam will most likely cause the paint to open up again. you might want to leave the exterior untouched until you have flown your plane several hours post interior lay-ups in order to confirm that the exterior crack is not growing, confirming that the repair was successful. Tim ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 4:52 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo On July 21, 2014 the nose gear on my TR-4 failed just as I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were super smooth, which is not very common for me. The front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left. Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed. The a new nose gear assembly was replaced but with shear bolts instead of a stainless steel pin, a major overhaul was done on the engine and installed a new CATTO 3 bladed composite propeller. There was a lot of posting on the forum during the repairs. http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=104460 On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 10:59 PM, Alfred Rosa wrote: What happened with your nose gear? Sent from my iPhone On Aug 1, 2016, at 6:32 PM, Galin Hernandez wrote: Al; here is the photo of the area in question as seen from the inside. I wonder if it could be an undetected problem stemming from the nose gear failure of 2014. I am concerned at what could have caused the issue so I can make sure it won't happen again. On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Alfred Rosa wrote: Make sure you rough the area good using 60 grit paper. See if you can force the joint open a bit with a blade or something and squeeze some resin into it from inside the fuselage. You can make one patch of 4 or more plys and slap it on. There are no shear forces so it needn't be outrages. I don't think you need to do anything to the outside other than cosmetic work. You can always add some glass to the outside if the separation reoccurs. I don't think this was ever a dangerous structural failure. Al Rosa On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Galin Hernandez wrote: Here is a photo of where the separation is happening as seen from inside the cockpit on the pilot side. In order to get the picture I had to clean and sand the area which was not fun. Even then, the separation is very hard to see but you can feel it with your finger. Al Rosa correctly noted it was almost perfectly aligned to where the top engine bolt enters the firewall. I drew a line to highlight where the separation is happening. I first noticed it about 30hrs ago but thought it was a paint defect not a fiberglass one. I wonder why it suddenly appeared after all these years and with so many hours flown? I also wonder if it could have something to do with the nose gear failure I had back in 2014? Do you guys think a good structural repair can be done in such a hard to get area. ARGHHHHHHH Virus-free. www.avast.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.