---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 03/30/17: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:54 AM - Wheel pants? (pastormac@comcast.net) 2. 04:09 AM - Re: Wheel pants? (Owen Baker) 3. 05:28 AM - Re: Wheel pants? (pastormac@comcast.net) 4. 07:53 AM - Re: Can anybody confirm this? (mark_trickel) 5. 02:47 PM - Re: Wheel pants? (Owen Baker) 6. 03:16 PM - Re: Re: Can anybody confirm this? (Owen Baker) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:02 AM PST US From: pastormac@comcast.net Subject: KIS-List: Wheel pants? Hi Guys! I'm wanting to get some wheel pants for my TR-1 two seater. Any suggestions? I heard RV's 7 work?? Thanks! To our success, Stephen McIntosh ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:09:57 AM PST US From: "Owen Baker " Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wheel pants? 3/30/2017 Hello Steve, If done right this will be a major project: a) Need some fairings for the main gear legs. b) Need to make interface between wheel pants and main gear leg fairings. c) Need a fairing for the nose strut. d) Need interface between nose strut fairing and nose wheel pant. (Took me years to develop and make mine.) I'll shoot you some pictures next chance I get. This is a huge tar baby once you touch it. OC PS: How goes solving the shimmy problem? ================================ From: pastormac@comcast.net Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:47 AM Subject: KIS-List: Wheel pants? Hi Guys! I'm wanting to get some wheel pants for my TR-1 two seater. Any suggestions? I heard RV's 7 work?? Thanks! To our success, Stephen McIntosh ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:02 AM PST US Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wheel pants? From: pastormac@comcast.net Thanks Owen! Don't know if I'm that gifted to create all that sounds necessary for the wheel pants. As far as the shimmy goes, I took off the nose wheel and there were two washers that were flat. It was very sloppy and couldn't tighten the nut enough to get any torque. I ordered two Belleville washers and hope to have them today. Galin helped me on those! To our success, Stephen McIntosh > On Mar 30, 2017, at 7:09 AM, Owen Baker wrote: > > > 3/30/2017 > > Hello Steve, If done right this will be a major project: > > a) Need some fairings for the main gear legs. > > b) Need to make interface between wheel pants and main gear leg fairings. > > c) Need a fairing for the nose strut. > > d) Need interface between nose strut fairing and nose wheel pant. (Took me years to develop and make mine.) > > I'll shoot you some pictures next chance I get. This is a huge tar baby once you touch it. > > OC > > PS: How goes solving the shimmy problem? > > ================================ > > From: pastormac@comcast.net > Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:47 AM > To: kis-list@matronics.com > Subject: KIS-List: Wheel pants? > > > Hi Guys! > I'm wanting to get some wheel pants for my TR-1 two seater. Any suggestions? I heard RV's 7 work?? Thanks! > > To our success, Stephen McIntosh > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:46 AM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Re: Can anybody confirm this? From: "mark_trickel" OC, Yes, there was one TR-4 sale from Oshkosh in 1999. The guy took delivery and a couple of months later he wanted to return the kit and he wasnt going to ask for the shipping cost back either (so thoughtful). Lawyers got involved and it turned into a mess. The bottom line was (IMO) the guy bit off more than he could chew and was looking for an out. The out was the original TR-4 prototype was sold and shipped to China, and the clam in the law suit was the airplane would not perform as advertised, because legally he could not return the kit plus the guy did a lot of work before he decided to quit on the project. In the judges eyes the Super Cruiser prorated was not good enough so Rich lost the suit. Richs lawyer sucked! Wayne Gifford still had his TR-4 in flying condition and would have gladly helped Rich out in a heartbeat. For that matter, it should have never been a law suit Rich should have worked out sometime with the idiot before lawyers with greedy hands were called out. I cant say for certain that Rich didnt try to negotiate with the guy but if I remember correctly that did not happen. The guy eventually attached the company bank account and he cleaned out a whopping $4800.00 from the High Tech checking account (I am not sure how he could have done that since Tri R was the KIS airplane company not High Tech, I guess because Tri R had no money). I would not worry about taking any responsibility for this guy, I had a bad feeling from him also. You know if Martin Hollmann did not like you or he thought you werent going to build his airplane the way he wanted you to he would not sell you one period! There were other extenuating circumstances at the time with Rich personally, mainly a nasty divorce that went on for six long years. But fact remains sales were just not there. If a few other sales were happening it would have worked out. The law suit happened at the worst possible time and after surviving for so many years this time Rich couldnt. Perhaps instead of concentrating on the 4-place he should have done the TR-2 a bigger version of the TR-1 for robust real world sized people RV sure did. 4-place homebuilts are a very very small segment of our world even though the TR-4 is a great airplane possibly even greater than the TR-1. If you want to do the main gear Id be happy to put it on for you, I cant imagine it would take more than a weekend to remove the current gear grind off the wedge and install a modified main gear and line everything up. It will cost you a couple of rides plus my Corgi, Piper Cub, will have to come with me and hang out in the hanger, she hates hanging out with my wife. MT Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467837#467837 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:47:28 PM PST US From: "Owen Baker " Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wheel pants? 3/30/2017 Hello Steve, You wrote: 1) "Don't know if I'm that gifted to create all that sounds necessary for the wheel pants." It was daunting to me and I had the benefit of all the composite work experience gained in building my plane over a 6 1/2 year period. Of course part of the challenge was trying to remember what I had learned several years ago (and then had forgotten). I'll still try to remember to send you some pictures. 2) "As far as the shimmy goes, I took off the nose wheel and there were two washers that were flat. It was very sloppy and couldn't tighten the nut enough to get any torque." I am really glad that you brought this situation to our attention and that you are following through because it can be very dangerous and damaging. 3) " I ordered two Belleville washers and hope to have them today." Good. Realize also that you can use nylon washers instead of or along with the Belleville washers. I flew my plane for many years with a stack up consisting of just nylon washers (which can be obtained at a good local hardware store) and flat steel washers. Also there is the consideration of having a nylon washer against the bottom of the aluminum shoe could avoid excessive wear on the shoe. OC =================================== From: pastormac@comcast.net Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 8:27 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wheel pants? Thanks Owen! Don't know if I'm that gifted to create all that sounds necessary for the wheel pants. As far as the shimmy goes, I took off the nose wheel and there were two washers that were flat. It was very sloppy and couldn't tighten the nut enough to get any torque. I ordered two Belleville washers and hope to have them today. Galin helped me on those! To our success, Stephen McIntosh ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:16:16 PM PST US From: "Owen Baker " Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Can anybody confirm this? 3/30/2017 Hello Mark, Thanks for the report. You wrote: 1) "Yes, there was one TR-4 sale from Oshkosh in 1999." and "I would not worry about taking any responsibility for this guy, I had a bad feeling from him also." That would be the guy. Regardless of my role in the affair, large or small, I still feel sad about how it all played out. Not that it is relevant of anything, but I vaguely remember that the guy was retired US Army. 2) "If you want to do the main gear Id be happy to put it on for you," and "I cant imagine it would take more than a weekend..." That is very generous of you, but the time frame that I have in mind to consider is not just how long the installation would take, but how long I would be around or have the airplane to enjoy the results of all the effort that would be required. 3) ".... grind off the wedge ...." No need for that, we'd just design the new gear axle position to achieve whatever forward movement we wanted with the wedge left in place. Another consideration in selecting either Lyle or Grove to make the new custom gear (not that it is relevant to this pie in the sky discussion) is that I extensively modified the bottom of the kit provided landing gear so that it would permit me to install Grove axles, wheels, and brakes. I did this by lying on my back and side on a cold concrete hangar floor in the middle of the winter and used an electric drill with sanding discs and drum sanders to make the needed material removal changes to the kit provided landing gear. The thought of doing something like that today at my current age causes me to shake my head and wonder how I could ever have been so addicted. OC ==================================== From: mark_trickel Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 10:53 AM Subject: KIS-List: Re: Can anybody confirm this? OC, Yes, there was one TR-4 sale from Oshkosh in 1999. The guy took delivery and a couple of months later he wanted to return the kit and he wasnt going to ask for the shipping cost back either (so thoughtful). Lawyers got involved and it turned into a mess. The bottom line was (IMO) the guy bit off more than he could chew and was looking for an out. The out was the original TR-4 prototype was sold and shipped to China, and the clam in the law suit was the airplane would not perform as advertised, because legally he could not return the kit plus the guy did a lot of work before he decided to quit on the project. In the judges eyes the Super Cruiser prorated was not good enough so Rich lost the suit. Richs lawyer sucked! Wayne Gifford still had his TR-4 in flying condition and would have gladly helped Rich out in a heartbeat. For that matter, it should have never been a law suit Rich should have worked out sometime with the idiot before lawyers with greedy hands were called out. I cant say for certain that Rich didnt try to negotiate with the guy but if I remember correctly that did not happen. The guy eventually attached the company bank account and he cleaned out a whopping $4800.00 from the High Tech checking account (I am not sure how he could have done that since Tri R was the KIS airplane company not High Tech, I guess because Tri R had no money). I would not worry about taking any responsibility for this guy, I had a bad feeling from him also. You know if Martin Hollmann did not like you or he thought you werent going to build his airplane the way he wanted you to he would not sell you one period! There were other extenuating circumstances at the time with Rich personally, mainly a nasty divorce that went on for six long years. But fact remains sales were just not there. If a few other sales were happening it would have worked out. The law suit happened at the worst possible time and after surviving for so many years this time Rich couldnt. Perhaps instead of concentrating on the 4-place he should have done the TR-2 a bigger version of the TR-1 for robust real world sized people RV sure did. 4-place homebuilts are a very very small segment of our world even though the TR-4 is a great airplane possibly even greater than the TR-1. If you want to do the main gear Id be happy to put it on for you, I cant imagine it would take more than a weekend to remove the current gear grind off the wedge and install a modified main gear and line everything up. It will cost you a couple of rides plus my Corgi, Piper Cub, will have to come with me and hang out in the hanger, she hates hanging out with my wife. MT Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467837#467837 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.