KIS-List Digest Archive

Tue 05/02/17


Total Messages Posted: 2



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:52 AM - Re: Re: Baggage station for W&B (Keith.Miller@esa.int)
     2. 01:47 PM - Baggage station for W&B (Owen Baker)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 03:52:04 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Baggage station for W&B
    From: Keith.Miller@esa.int
    OC are you sure the aft face of the rear spar is at STA 92.8 ?. i re-read my build manual and couldn't find that location specified ( since its determined by the build jig pattern ) . i will do some measurements next time i am at the airport , but i would have thought it was at least 5 or 6 "further forward than that based on the build manual specifying that the top of the seat back is at STA 93.5 and i think the displacement of the seat back is more than 0.7" . happy to be wrong Keith From: "Owen Baker" <bakerocb@cox.net> <kis-list@matronics.com> Subject: KIS-List: Re: Baggage station for W&B Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com 4/15/2017 Hello Steve, Sorry for the slow response -- a few alligators crawled out of the swamp and had to be beat back down. You wrote: "The builder of my plane, Richard Kindig had the baggage station at 91 in." It does not appear logical to me that the center of the baggage compartment weight would be located in front of the wing aft spar location. If your tri cycle landing gear plane was built according to the construction manual the baggage compartment exists from the aft face of the aft wing spar at station 92.8 inches to the aft baggage compartment bulkhead at station 111.0 inches. That is a distance of 18.2 inches. If you assume that the weight of the items in the baggage compartment are distributed evenly fore and aft then the center of the weight in the baggage compartment is going to be 9.1 inches aft of the aft face of the aft wing spar or at station 101.9 inches. My records show that I am using a measured 96 inches for my plane as the centroid of the baggage weight location. Considering that the actual weight center of what is located in the baggage compartment is reestablished every time you reload the baggage compartment I don't think that one can determine precisely where the weight center is located down to the exact inch. I'd go with the 96 inches. Any questions or comments? OC PS: While at the airport yesterday I took some pictures of my empty left baggage compartment -- see attached. Some comments: 0140.JPG: This photo is looking aft at the rear baggage compartment bulkhead. The top of the seat back is in the forefront and yes, that is the copilot's headset receptacles located behind the pilot's seat --why? So the copilot can both see and reach his headset receptacles while strapped into his seat. Similarly the pilot's headset receptacles are located behind the copilot's seat. It took me many years of flying many different aircraft with many different poorly placed headset receptacles to come up with this preferred location.## 0143.JPG: This photo is looking forward at the aft wing spar at the bottom of the fuselage interior and the seat back extending upward from the top of the spar. Notice the items attached to the back of the aft wing spar that would prevent baggage items from being placed directly against the spar. ##PS: Even when using my new Lightspeed Tango cordless headsets it is convenient to have the Tango Panel Interface unit plugged in where it is accessible. http://www.lightspeedaviation.com/Tango/subgrouping.htm?cat=35717 ========================================= From: pastormac@comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 4:47 PM Subject: Baggage station for W&B Hi Owen, The builder of my plane, Richard Kindig had the baggage station at 91 in. Everything I have seen has it at 96 in. Do you know if they are different on each individual aircraft or should I go with the 96 in ? Thanks! Steve. To our success, Stephen McIntosh [attachment "000_0140.JPG" deleted by Keith Miller/estec/ESA] [attachment "000_0143.JPG" deleted by Keith Miller/estec/ESA] This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only. The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its content is not permitted. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender. Please consider the environment before printing this email.


    Message 2


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    Time: 01:47:43 PM PST US
    From: "Owen Baker " <bakerocb@cox.net>
    Subject: Baggage station for W&B
    5/2/2017 Hello Keith, Thanks for your input. You wrote: "are you sure the aft face of the rear spar is at STA 92.8 ?." Short of doing some measuring I am going by CONSTRUCTION OF THE WING, Page 23, REV 3, of the Builder's Manual. Here is an extract from that page: "The aft spar must have a hole for the short push tube to go straight back from the bellcrank to the aileron control bracket. The tube will be inch diameter and again be fitted with ball rod ends. Cut a 1-inch hole in the spar web using a Dremel tool and router bit. Center the hole as low as possible on the spar. It should be at station 92.8. Check that this is where your push tube will be located before cutting the hole. This hole can be opened more later when the aileron is mounted and push rod is in place." I note that the manual does not say whether that dimension is to the front or rear of the aft spar, but considering that the aft spar is made from 1/4 inch thick plywood plus some 6 ply BID on both faces of the spar the aft face of the spar must be not much more than an inch in either direction from the 92.8 dimension and 92.8 is probably precise enough to use for baggage weight and balance information. Please let us know what your measurements reveal. OC PS: I became overwhelmed with fatigue while searching through the Builder's Manual. I just can not believe that I went to all that work over 6 1/2 years starting back in 1997. Any thoughts of starting to build another plane at my now starting age of 84 is pure fantasy. ================================= From: Keith.Miller@esa.int Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 6:51 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Baggage station for W&B OC are you sure the aft face of the rear spar is at STA 92.8 ?. i re-read my build manual and couldn't find that location specified ( since its determined by the build jig pattern ) . i will do some measurements next time i am at the airport , but i would have thought it was at least 5 or 6 "further forward than that based on the build manual specifying that the top of the seat back is at STA 93.5 and i think the displacement of the seat back is more than 0.7" . happy to be wrong Keith ======================================== From: "Owen Baker" <bakerocb@cox.net> <kis-list@matronics.com> Subject: KIS-List: Re: Baggage station for W&B Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com 4/15/2017 Hello Steve, Sorry for the slow response -- a few alligators crawled out of the swamp and had to be beat back down. You wrote: "The builder of my plane, Richard Kindig had the baggage station at 91 in." It does not appear logical to me that the center of the baggage compartment weight would be located in front of the wing aft spar location. If your tri cycle landing gear plane was built according to the construction manual the baggage compartment exists from the aft face of the aft wing spar at station 92.8 inches to the aft baggage compartment bulkhead at station 111.0 inches. That is a distance of 18.2 inches. If you assume that the weight of the items in the baggage compartment are distributed evenly fore and aft then the center of the weight in the baggage compartment is going to be 9.1 inches aft of the aft face of the aft wing spar or at station 101.9 inches. My records show that I am using a measured 96 inches for my plane as the centroid of the baggage weight location. Considering that the actual weight center of what is located in the baggage compartment is reestablished every time you reload the baggage compartment I don't think that one can determine precisely where the weight center is located down to the exact inch. I'd go with the 96 inches. Any questions or comments? OC PS: While at the airport yesterday I took some pictures of my empty left baggage compartment -- see attached. Some comments: 0140.JPG: This photo is looking aft at the rear baggage compartment bulkhead. The top of the seat back is in the forefront and yes, that is the copilot's headset receptacles located behind the pilot's seat --why? So the copilot can both see and reach his headset receptacles while strapped into his seat. Similarly the pilot's headset receptacles are located behind the copilot's seat. It took me many years of flying many different aircraft with many different poorly placed headset receptacles to come up with this preferred location.## 0143.JPG: This photo is looking forward at the aft wing spar at the bottom of the fuselage interior and the seat back extending upward from the top of the spar. Notice the items attached to the back of the aft wing spar that would prevent baggage items from being placed directly against the spar. ##PS: Even when using my new Lightspeed Tango cordless headsets it is convenient to have the Tango Panel Interface unit plugged in where it is accessible. http://www.lightspeedaviation.com/Tango/subgrouping.htm?cat=35717 ========================================= From: pastormac@comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 4:47 PM Subject: Baggage station for W&B Hi Owen, The builder of my plane, Richard Kindig had the baggage station at 91 in. Everything I have seen has it at 96 in. Do you know if they are different on each individual aircraft or should I go with the 96 in ? Thanks! Steve. To our success, Stephen McIntosh [attachment "000_0140.JPG" deleted by Keith Miller/estec/ESA] [attachment "000_0143.JPG" deleted by Keith Miller/estec/ESA] This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only. The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its content is not permitted. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender. Please consider the environment before printing this email.




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