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1. 03:52 AM - Re: Re: Baggage station for W&B (Keith.Miller@esa.int)
2. 01:47 PM - Baggage station for W&B (Owen Baker)
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Subject: | Re: Baggage station for W&B |
OC
are you sure the aft face of the rear spar is at STA 92.8 ?. i re-read my
build manual and couldn't find that location specified ( since its determined
by the build jig pattern ) . i will do some measurements next time i am at
the airport , but i would have thought it was at least 5 or 6 "further
forward than that based on the build manual specifying that the top of the
seat back is at STA 93.5 and i think the displacement of the seat back is
more than 0.7" .
happy to be wrong
Keith
From: "Owen Baker" <bakerocb@cox.net>
<kis-list@matronics.com>
Subject: KIS-List: Re: Baggage station for W&B
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
4/15/2017
Hello Steve, Sorry for the slow response -- a few alligators crawled out of
the swamp and had to be beat back down.
You wrote: "The builder of my plane, Richard Kindig had the baggage station
at 91 in."
It does not appear logical to me that the center of the baggage compartment
weight would be located in front of the wing aft spar location.
If your tri cycle landing gear plane was built according to the construction
manual the baggage compartment exists from the aft face of the aft wing spar
at station 92.8 inches to the aft baggage compartment bulkhead at station
111.0 inches. That is a distance of 18.2 inches.
If you assume that the weight of the items in the baggage compartment are
distributed evenly fore and aft then the center of the weight in the baggage
compartment is going to be 9.1 inches aft of the aft face of the aft wing
spar or at station 101.9 inches.
My records show that I am using a measured 96 inches for my plane as the
centroid of the baggage weight location. Considering that the actual weight
center of what is located in the baggage compartment is reestablished every
time you reload the baggage compartment I don't think that one can determine
precisely where the weight center is located down to the exact inch.
I'd go with the 96 inches. Any questions or comments?
OC
PS: While at the airport yesterday I took some pictures of my empty left
baggage compartment -- see attached. Some comments:
0140.JPG: This photo is looking aft at the rear baggage compartment
bulkhead. The top of the seat back is in the forefront and yes, that is the
copilot's headset receptacles located behind the pilot's seat --why? So the
copilot can both see and reach his headset receptacles while strapped into
his seat. Similarly the pilot's headset receptacles are located behind the
copilot's seat. It took me many years of flying many different aircraft with
many different poorly placed headset receptacles to come up with this
preferred location.##
0143.JPG: This photo is looking forward at the aft wing spar at the bottom
of the fuselage interior and the seat back extending upward from the top of
the spar. Notice the items attached to the back of the aft wing spar that
would prevent baggage items from being placed directly against the spar.
##PS: Even when using my new Lightspeed Tango cordless headsets it is
convenient to have the Tango Panel Interface unit plugged in where it is
accessible.
http://www.lightspeedaviation.com/Tango/subgrouping.htm?cat=35717
=========================================
From: pastormac@comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 4:47 PM
Subject: Baggage station for W&B
Hi Owen,
The builder of my plane, Richard Kindig had the baggage station at 91 in.
Everything I have seen has it at 96 in. Do you know if they are different on
each individual aircraft or should I go with the 96 in ?
Thanks!
Steve.
To our success, Stephen McIntosh
[attachment "000_0140.JPG" deleted by Keith Miller/estec/ESA] [attachment
"000_0143.JPG" deleted by Keith Miller/estec/ESA]
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Message 2
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Subject: | Baggage station for W&B |
5/2/2017
Hello Keith, Thanks for your input. You wrote: "are you sure the aft face of
the rear spar is at STA 92.8 ?."
Short of doing some measuring I am going by CONSTRUCTION OF THE WING, Page
23, REV 3, of the Builder's Manual.
Here is an extract from that page:
"The aft spar must have a hole for the short push tube to go straight back
from the bellcrank to the aileron control bracket. The tube will be inch
diameter and again be fitted with ball rod ends. Cut a 1-inch hole in the
spar web using a Dremel tool and router bit. Center the hole as low as
possible on the spar. It should be at station 92.8. Check that this is where
your push tube will be located before cutting the hole. This hole can be
opened more later when the aileron is mounted and push rod is in place."
I note that the manual does not say whether that dimension is to the front
or rear of the aft spar, but considering that the aft spar is made from 1/4
inch thick plywood plus some 6 ply BID on both faces of the spar the aft
face of the spar must be not much more than an inch in either direction from
the 92.8 dimension and 92.8 is probably precise enough to use for baggage
weight and balance information.
Please let us know what your measurements reveal.
OC
PS: I became overwhelmed with fatigue while searching through the Builder's
Manual. I just can not believe that I went to all that work over 6 1/2 years
starting back in 1997. Any thoughts of starting to build another plane at my
now starting age of 84 is pure fantasy.
=================================
From: Keith.Miller@esa.int
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2017 6:51 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Baggage station for W&B
OC
are you sure the aft face of the rear spar is at STA 92.8 ?. i re-read my
build manual and couldn't find that location specified ( since its
determined
by the build jig pattern ) . i will do some measurements next time i am at
the airport , but i would have thought it was at least 5 or 6 "further
forward than that based on the build manual specifying that the top of the
seat back is at STA 93.5 and i think the displacement of the seat back is
more than 0.7" .
happy to be wrong
Keith
========================================
From: "Owen Baker" <bakerocb@cox.net>
<kis-list@matronics.com>
Subject: KIS-List: Re: Baggage station for W&B
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
4/15/2017
Hello Steve, Sorry for the slow response -- a few alligators crawled out of
the swamp and had to be beat back down.
You wrote: "The builder of my plane, Richard Kindig had the baggage station
at 91 in."
It does not appear logical to me that the center of the baggage compartment
weight would be located in front of the wing aft spar location.
If your tri cycle landing gear plane was built according to the construction
manual the baggage compartment exists from the aft face of the aft wing spar
at station 92.8 inches to the aft baggage compartment bulkhead at station
111.0 inches. That is a distance of 18.2 inches.
If you assume that the weight of the items in the baggage compartment are
distributed evenly fore and aft then the center of the weight in the baggage
compartment is going to be 9.1 inches aft of the aft face of the aft wing
spar or at station 101.9 inches.
My records show that I am using a measured 96 inches for my plane as the
centroid of the baggage weight location. Considering that the actual weight
center of what is located in the baggage compartment is reestablished every
time you reload the baggage compartment I don't think that one can determine
precisely where the weight center is located down to the exact inch.
I'd go with the 96 inches. Any questions or comments?
OC
PS: While at the airport yesterday I took some pictures of my empty left
baggage compartment -- see attached. Some comments:
0140.JPG: This photo is looking aft at the rear baggage compartment
bulkhead. The top of the seat back is in the forefront and yes, that is the
copilot's headset receptacles located behind the pilot's seat --why? So the
copilot can both see and reach his headset receptacles while strapped into
his seat. Similarly the pilot's headset receptacles are located behind the
copilot's seat. It took me many years of flying many different aircraft with
many different poorly placed headset receptacles to come up with this
preferred location.##
0143.JPG: This photo is looking forward at the aft wing spar at the bottom
of the fuselage interior and the seat back extending upward from the top of
the spar. Notice the items attached to the back of the aft wing spar that
would prevent baggage items from being placed directly against the spar.
##PS: Even when using my new Lightspeed Tango cordless headsets it is
convenient to have the Tango Panel Interface unit plugged in where it is
accessible.
http://www.lightspeedaviation.com/Tango/subgrouping.htm?cat=35717
=========================================
From: pastormac@comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 4:47 PM
Subject: Baggage station for W&B
Hi Owen,
The builder of my plane, Richard Kindig had the baggage station at 91 in.
Everything I have seen has it at 96 in. Do you know if they are different on
each individual aircraft or should I go with the 96 in ?
Thanks!
Steve.
To our success, Stephen McIntosh
[attachment "000_0140.JPG" deleted by Keith Miller/estec/ESA] [attachment
"000_0143.JPG" deleted by Keith Miller/estec/ESA]
This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee
or addressees only.
The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole
or in part) of its
content is not permitted.
If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete
it from your system.
Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the
sender.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.
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