Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:29 AM - Re: Fw: Softness in wing? (Keith.Miller@esa.int)
2. 03:45 AM - Re: Fw: Softness in wing? (pastormac@comcast.net)
3. 05:04 AM - Re: Fw: Softness in wing? (Keith.Miller@esa.int)
4. 07:26 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser WindDancer flies (Robert Reed)
5. 05:35 PM - Re: Fw: Softness in wing? (pastormac@comcast.net)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Fw: Softness in wing? |
The wing in that area where you step on , has no wing ribs supporting it
from inside , the closest wing ribs at BL 24 and BL 45 ( 24 Inches from the
centre and 45" from the centre line ), which in my opinion is a design
fault , and i wonder why it was not taken into account during the initial
design, knowing that high pressure loads are going to be applied when
climbing in and out of the fuselage. Its possible to also enter from the
front of the wing and there is a rib at BL 32 which adds a bit of support.
I find entering from the front easier
The good news is that it would be relatively easy to if any damage is on
the inner part of the skin with one of those cheap flexible inspection
camera, by drilling a small hole on the underside . Assuming there is no
damage then I would as suggested drilling a series if small holes in the
upper surface and inject some expoxy / micro mix to effectively relace the
foam core with a more solid replacement. since you have wing walk paint it
shouldnt even be noticeable wit a bit of touching up .
Hope that makes sense.
From: pastormac@comcast.net
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Fw: Softness in wing?
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
Not near fuel cell. I step on the wing from the back of the wing over the
flaps which I have in down position. You can push down on the spot with
little pressure before it starts to give.
To our success, Stephen McIntosh
> On May 16, 2017, at 10:27 AM, Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> From: Owen Baker
> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:42 AM
> To: pastormac@comcast.net
> Subject: Re: Softness in wing?
>
> 5/16/2017
>
> Hello Stephen, I would not attempt to analyze the problem without actually
> seeing it personally, but it could be a very serious problem requiring some
> expert composite aircraft repair training to help solve.
>
> Apparently you meant wing ribs rather than spars in your description of the
> location of the soft spot with regard to how far it is from the fuselage.
> Just as important is where is it located fore and aft. Is it over the
> portion of the wing that contains fuel? If it is over the fuel tank you
> could find yourself stepping into fuel someday.
>
> I recommend that you ask for help from the KIS Matronics group by
forwarding
> this email to the group.
>
> Also see here:
>
> http://www.mansbergeraircraft.com/
>
>
http://www.aviationpros.com/article/11105657/the-a-b-cs-of-aircraft-composite-repair
>
>
http://www.deltatechops.com/mro-capabilities/view/category/composite-maintenance
>
> OC
>
> ==========================================
>
> From: pastormac@comcast.net
> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 8:24 PM
> To: Owen Baker
> Subject: Softness in wing?
>
> Hi Owen,
> Trust all is well? I had a question. Where I step on the Wong to enter the
> plane a soft spot has developed. I have a strip to protect the paint and
> thought about removing it and drilling a small hole and try and eject some
> epoxy in the area. Any thoughts? The area seems to be between the two
> spars. The one close to the door and the next spar. It's about a 6 by 6
area
> or a little larger.
>
> To our success,
> Stephen McIntosh
>
>
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Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Fw: Softness in wing? |
Thanks Keith. Hoping it's not a fuel cell leak. I have a soft spot on towards the
front where I do not step.
To our success, Stephen McIntosh
> On May 17, 2017, at 4:28 AM, Keith.Miller@esa.int wrote:
>
>
> The wing in that area where you step on , has no wing ribs supporting it
> from inside , the closest wing ribs at BL 24 and BL 45 ( 24 Inches from the
> centre and 45" from the centre line ), which in my opinion is a design
> fault , and i wonder why it was not taken into account during the initial
> design, knowing that high pressure loads are going to be applied when
> climbing in and out of the fuselage. Its possible to also enter from the
> front of the wing and there is a rib at BL 32 which adds a bit of support.
> I find entering from the front easier
>
> The good news is that it would be relatively easy to if any damage is on
> the inner part of the skin with one of those cheap flexible inspection
> camera, by drilling a small hole on the underside . Assuming there is no
> damage then I would as suggested drilling a series if small holes in the
> upper surface and inject some expoxy / micro mix to effectively relace the
> foam core with a more solid replacement. since you have wing walk paint it
> shouldnt even be noticeable wit a bit of touching up .
>
> Hope that makes sense.
>
>
>
>
> From: pastormac@comcast.net
> To: kis-list@matronics.com
> Date: 05/16/2017 06:20 PM
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: Fw: Softness in wing?
> Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
>
>
>
>
> Not near fuel cell. I step on the wing from the back of the wing over the
> flaps which I have in down position. You can push down on the spot with
> little pressure before it starts to give.
>
> To our success, Stephen McIntosh
>
>> On May 16, 2017, at 10:27 AM, Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Owen Baker
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:42 AM
>> To: pastormac@comcast.net
>> Subject: Re: Softness in wing?
>>
>> 5/16/2017
>>
>> Hello Stephen, I would not attempt to analyze the problem without actually
>> seeing it personally, but it could be a very serious problem requiring some
>> expert composite aircraft repair training to help solve.
>>
>> Apparently you meant wing ribs rather than spars in your description of the
>> location of the soft spot with regard to how far it is from the fuselage.
>> Just as important is where is it located fore and aft. Is it over the
>> portion of the wing that contains fuel? If it is over the fuel tank you
>> could find yourself stepping into fuel someday.
>>
>> I recommend that you ask for help from the KIS Matronics group by
> forwarding
>> this email to the group.
>>
>> Also see here:
>>
>> http://www.mansbergeraircraft.com/
>>
>>
> http://www.aviationpros.com/article/11105657/the-a-b-cs-of-aircraft-composite-repair
>
>>
>>
> http://www.deltatechops.com/mro-capabilities/view/category/composite-maintenance
>
>>
>> OC
>>
>> ==========================================
>>
>> From: pastormac@comcast.net
>> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 8:24 PM
>> To: Owen Baker
>> Subject: Softness in wing?
>>
>> Hi Owen,
>> Trust all is well? I had a question. Where I step on the Wong to enter the
>> plane a soft spot has developed. I have a strip to protect the paint and
>> thought about removing it and drilling a small hole and try and eject some
>> epoxy in the area. Any thoughts? The area seems to be between the two
>> spars. The one close to the door and the next spar. It's about a 6 by 6
> area
>> or a little larger.
>>
>> To our success,
>> Stephen McIntosh
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or
> addressees only.
> The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole
> or in part) of its
> content is not permitted.
> If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it
> from your system.
> Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender.
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or
addressees only.
> The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or
in part) of its
> content is not permitted.
> If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it
from your system.
> Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender.
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Fw: Softness in wing? |
If the soft spots are more or less inline with each other it could be that
the foam core has started to disintegrate for some reason, most likely fuel
seeping backwards . drilling a small hole ( 1/8") in the top surface aft of
the wing spar over the soft spot will confirm if its fuel that is causing
the foam to disintegrate or something else , but at least you will know and
we can start think about how to fix it . ( any sniff of fuel at this point
will confirm it) . Doing nothing, if it is fuel, will only make the problem
bigger over time.
From: pastormac@comcast.net
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Fw: Softness in wing?
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
Thanks Keith. Hoping it's not a fuel cell leak. I have a soft spot on towards
the front where I do not step.
To our success, Stephen McIntosh
> On May 17, 2017, at 4:28 AM, Keith.Miller@esa.int wrote:
>
>
> The wing in that area where you step on , has no wing ribs supporting it
> from inside , the closest wing ribs at BL 24 and BL 45 ( 24 Inches from the
> centre and 45" from the centre line ), which in my opinion is a design
> fault , and i wonder why it was not taken into account during the initial
> design, knowing that high pressure loads are going to be applied when
> climbing in and out of the fuselage. Its possible to also enter from
the
> front of the wing and there is a rib at BL 32 which adds a bit of
support.
> I find entering from the front easier
>
> The good news is that it would be relatively easy to if any damage is on
> the inner part of the skin with one of those cheap flexible inspection
> camera, by drilling a small hole on the underside . Assuming there is no
> damage then I would as suggested drilling a series if small holes in the
> upper surface and inject some expoxy / micro mix to effectively relace
the
> foam core with a more solid replacement. since you have wing walk paint
it
> shouldnt even be noticeable wit a bit of touching up .
>
> Hope that makes sense.
>
>
> From: pastormac@comcast.net
> To: kis-list@matronics.com
> Date: 05/16/2017 06:20 PM
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: Fw: Softness in wing?
> Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
>
>
>
> Not near fuel cell. I step on the wing from the back of the wing over the
> flaps which I have in down position. You can push down on the spot with
> little pressure before it starts to give.
>
> To our success, Stephen McIntosh
>
>> On May 16, 2017, at 10:27 AM, Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Owen Baker
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:42 AM
>> To: pastormac@comcast.net
>> Subject: Re: Softness in wing?
>>
>> 5/16/2017
>>
>> Hello Stephen, I would not attempt to analyze the problem without actually
>> seeing it personally, but it could be a very serious problem requiring
some
>> expert composite aircraft repair training to help solve.
>>
>> Apparently you meant wing ribs rather than spars in your description of
the
>> location of the soft spot with regard to how far it is from the fuselage.
>> Just as important is where is it located fore and aft. Is it over the
>> portion of the wing that contains fuel? If it is over the fuel tank you
>> could find yourself stepping into fuel someday.
>>
>> I recommend that you ask for help from the KIS Matronics group by
> forwarding
>> this email to the group.
>>
>> Also see here:
>>
>> http://www.mansbergeraircraft.com/
>>
>>
>
http://www.aviationpros.com/article/11105657/the-a-b-cs-of-aircraft-composite-repair
>
>>
>>
>
http://www.deltatechops.com/mro-capabilities/view/category/composite-maintenance
>
>>
>> OC
>>
>> ==========================================
>>
>> From: pastormac@comcast.net
>> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 8:24 PM
>> To: Owen Baker
>> Subject: Softness in wing?
>>
>> Hi Owen,
>> Trust all is well? I had a question. Where I step on the Wong to enter
the
>> plane a soft spot has developed. I have a strip to protect the paint and
>> thought about removing it and drilling a small hole and try and eject some
>> epoxy in the area. Any thoughts? The area seems to be between the two
>> spars. The one close to the door and the next spar. It's about a 6 by 6
> area
>> or a little larger.
>>
>> To our success,
>> Stephen McIntosh
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee
or
> addressees only.
> The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole
> or in part) of its
> content is not permitted.
> If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete
it
> from your system.
> Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the
sender.
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
> This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee
or addressees only.
> The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole
or in part) of its
> content is not permitted.
> If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete
it from your system.
> Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the
sender.
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees
only.
The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or
in part) of its
content is not permitted.
If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from
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Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: KIS Cruiser WindDancer flies |
Ed,
Thank you, I was glad to be of assistance.=C2- I tried for years to keep
the site up to date but just as it is with building the plane, life keeps g
etting in the way.=C2- I have switched lap tops and operating systems sev
eral times over the years and the program I used for maintaining the site w
ill no longer work.=C2- Learning a new program for web site maintenance j
ust has NOT been high on my priority list and thus I have let the site just
EXIST and not maintained it.=C2- I apologize to all for that but have co
me to the conclusion that the many hours needed to maintain the web site=C2
-could be better spent on building.=C2- I am glad though that what cont
ent is there is of help to other builders.
Someday...I will finish the plane and update the web site again
Bob Reed
99% done with painting, 85% done with upholstery, 10% done with wiring (mor
e if you consider designing), 40% done with final assembly (Wings, Flaps, a
nd Ailerons to go)
90% down and 90% to go....
From: Ed Hanson <hansoncp@netnitco.net>
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Cruiser WindDancer flies
Bob, I spent many an hour checking out the great information on your web si
te during the build. Thanks for the effort building the site.
----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Reed To: kis-list@matronics.co
m Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2017 10:19 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS Cruiser W
indDancer flies
Congratulations Ed, That is wonderful news and Wind Dancer is a beautiful
airplane.=C2- I am too familiar with how life can get in the way of our
projects and it's a testament to your perseverance to see it through to com
pletion.=C2- I look forward to hearing more reports on your experience wi
th the flight=C2-testing.=C2-
Bob Reed
From: Ed Hanson <hansoncp@netnitco.net>
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2017 9:48 PM
Subject: KIS-List: KIS Cruiser WindDancer flies
After a long build time interrupted by life in many ways, I was able to
finally take my Cruiser around the pattern a few times last Wednesday. I h
ad made several long and high land backs on our VPZ 7000' runway earlier so
I knew it would fly but wanted the initial pattern flight to depart east o
ver fields. Waiting for=C2-acceptable weather and trying to align schedul
es was like getting the planets to align. Light rain fell on the hangar roo
f when I pulled the plane out but the weather held off=C2-long enough to
do the deed. =C2- The plane flew very nicely and since I followed the man
ual's=C2-flight test advice for the first flight landing with no flaps, a
nd was carrying a little extra speed=C2-on this landing for pucker factor
, it just wanted to keep flying until we both decided it was time for a nic
e touchdown. I look forward to another get acquainted flight soon before st
arting the phase one testing in depth. =C2- I would like to thank all the
KIS list members and builders for their advice and help thru the years and
also Kent Pyle and Galin for letting me get some stick time in their plan
es.I felt very comfortable on the first flight. =C2- I have an injected L
ycoming experimental IO-360=C2-running dual p-mags, and factory suggested
Sensenich prop.=C2- =C2- For good luck on the first flight, I wore my
dad's 1929 flying helmet from his OX5 Swallow days and complemented it with
my Light Speed Zulu headset. Seemed to work.=C2-=C2-Post flight inspec
tion didn't turn up any problems. My tail feather N71EJ stand for the year
we were married and Ed and Judi.=C2-There is a video of the takeoff on ou
r EAA Chapter 104 Face book page.
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Fw: Softness in wing? |
Thanks Keith. Going to drill the small hole tomorrow.
To our success, Stephen McIntosh
> On May 17, 2017, at 8:04 AM, Keith.Miller@esa.int wrote:
>
>
> If the soft spots are more or less inline with each other it could be that
> the foam core has started to disintegrate for some reason, most likely fuel
> seeping backwards . drilling a small hole ( 1/8") in the top surface aft of
> the wing spar over the soft spot will confirm if its fuel that is causing
> the foam to disintegrate or something else , but at least you will know and
> we can start think about how to fix it . ( any sniff of fuel at this point
> will confirm it) . Doing nothing, if it is fuel, will only make the problem
> bigger over time.
>
>
> From: pastormac@comcast.net
> To: kis-list@matronics.com
> Date: 05/17/2017 12:46 PM
> Subject: Re: KIS-List: Fw: Softness in wing?
> Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
>
>
>
>
> Thanks Keith. Hoping it's not a fuel cell leak. I have a soft spot on towards
> the front where I do not step.
>
> To our success, Stephen McIntosh
>
>> On May 17, 2017, at 4:28 AM, Keith.Miller@esa.int wrote:
>>
>>
>> The wing in that area where you step on , has no wing ribs supporting it
>> from inside , the closest wing ribs at BL 24 and BL 45 ( 24 Inches from the
>> centre and 45" from the centre line ), which in my opinion is a design
>> fault , and i wonder why it was not taken into account during the initial
>> design, knowing that high pressure loads are going to be applied when
>> climbing in and out of the fuselage. Its possible to also enter from
> the
>> front of the wing and there is a rib at BL 32 which adds a bit of
> support.
>> I find entering from the front easier
>>
>> The good news is that it would be relatively easy to if any damage is on
>> the inner part of the skin with one of those cheap flexible inspection
>> camera, by drilling a small hole on the underside . Assuming there is no
>> damage then I would as suggested drilling a series if small holes in the
>> upper surface and inject some expoxy / micro mix to effectively relace
> the
>> foam core with a more solid replacement. since you have wing walk paint
> it
>> shouldnt even be noticeable wit a bit of touching up .
>>
>> Hope that makes sense.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: pastormac@comcast.net
>> To: kis-list@matronics.com
>> Date: 05/16/2017 06:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: Fw: Softness in wing?
>> Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Not near fuel cell. I step on the wing from the back of the wing over the
>> flaps which I have in down position. You can push down on the spot with
>> little pressure before it starts to give.
>>
>> To our success, Stephen McIntosh
>>
>>> On May 16, 2017, at 10:27 AM, Owen Baker <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Owen Baker
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:42 AM
>>> To: pastormac@comcast.net
>>> Subject: Re: Softness in wing?
>>>
>>> 5/16/2017
>>>
>>> Hello Stephen, I would not attempt to analyze the problem without actually
>>> seeing it personally, but it could be a very serious problem requiring
> some
>>> expert composite aircraft repair training to help solve.
>>>
>>> Apparently you meant wing ribs rather than spars in your description of
> the
>>> location of the soft spot with regard to how far it is from the fuselage.
>>> Just as important is where is it located fore and aft. Is it over the
>>> portion of the wing that contains fuel? If it is over the fuel tank you
>>> could find yourself stepping into fuel someday.
>>>
>>> I recommend that you ask for help from the KIS Matronics group by
>> forwarding
>>> this email to the group.
>>>
>>> Also see here:
>>>
>>> http://www.mansbergeraircraft.com/
>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.aviationpros.com/article/11105657/the-a-b-cs-of-aircraft-composite-repair
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.deltatechops.com/mro-capabilities/view/category/composite-maintenance
>
>>
>>>
>>> OC
>>>
>>> ==========================================
>>>
>>> From: pastormac@comcast.net
>>> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 8:24 PM
>>> To: Owen Baker
>>> Subject: Softness in wing?
>>>
>>> Hi Owen,
>>> Trust all is well? I had a question. Where I step on the Wong to enter
> the
>>> plane a soft spot has developed. I have a strip to protect the paint and
>>> thought about removing it and drilling a small hole and try and eject some
>>> epoxy in the area. Any thoughts? The area seems to be between the two
>>> spars. The one close to the door and the next spar. It's about a 6 by 6
>> area
>>> or a little larger.
>>>
>>> To our success,
>>> Stephen McIntosh
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee
> or
>> addressees only.
>> The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole
>> or in part) of its
>> content is not permitted.
>> If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete
> it
>> from your system.
>> Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the
> sender.
>>
>> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee
> or addressees only.
>> The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole
> or in part) of its
>> content is not permitted.
>> If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete
> it from your system.
>> Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the
> sender.
>>
>> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or
addressees only.
> The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or
in part) of its
> content is not permitted.
> If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it
from your system.
> Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender.
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
>
>
>
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