Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:38 AM - Re: Fw: Softness in wing? (pastormac@comcast.net)
2. 07:49 AM - Re: Soft spot on inside wing (Jesse Wright)
3. 08:09 AM - Re: Fw: Softness in wing? (Keith.Miller@esa.int)
4. 08:52 AM - Re: Fw: Softness in wing? (Robert Reed)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Softness in wing? |
Hi Guys,
I drilled a small hole over the softest area right over the fuel tank and there
was no smell of fuel!!! I was going to order some west systems epoxy, and drill
several small holes to stabilize the area. I need one that would flow well
and bond. Any suggestions would be appreciated!!
To our success, Stephen McIntosh
> On May 17, 2017, at 8:34 PM, pastormac@comcast.net wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Keith. Going to drill the small hole tomorrow.
>
> To our success, Stephen McIntosh
>
>> On May 17, 2017, at 8:04 AM, Keith.Miller@esa.int wrote:
>>
>>
>> If the soft spots are more or less inline with each other it could be that
>> the foam core has started to disintegrate for some reason, most likely fuel
>> seeping backwards . drilling a small hole ( 1/8") in the top surface aft of
>> the wing spar over the soft spot will confirm if its fuel that is causing
>> the foam to disintegrate or something else , but at least you will know and
>> we can start think about how to fix it . ( any sniff of fuel at this point
>> will confirm it) . Doing nothing, if it is fuel, will only make the problem
>> bigger over time.
>>
>>
>> From: pastormac@comcast.net
>> To: kis-list@matronics.com
>> Date: 05/17/2017 12:46 PM
>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: Fw: Softness in wing?
>> Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks Keith. Hoping it's not a fuel cell leak. I have a soft spot on towards
>> the front where I do not step.
>>
>> To our success, Stephen McIntosh
>>
>>> On May 17, 2017, at 4:28 AM, Keith.Miller@esa.int wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> The wing in that area where you step on , has no wing ribs supporting it
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Soft spot on inside wing |
Stephen,
I strongly suggest you do not fill just the holes you drill. Your
problem is going to require removing the honey comb material inside
the area that has come loose, replacing it with new honey comb
material, matted in epoxy. Before this though, for sure, is it over
the gas tank? If so you will want to glass the bottom first with
wetted cloth, sealing the area. If it won't support this process first
then cut our the bottom glass and glass the bottom of the area with
rings of cloth, getting small with each layer because you will need to
have your hand under the glass to place it until you get the hole
small enough you can now span it from on top. This would take about
three layers to get the hole small enough that the glass you put on
from the top will complete the cover. This I would make about three
layers. Put this in place after it has just began to set, depending
on the temperature. It might sage some but mat it in with fresh
epoxy. When this is still tacky but hard enough to press against, lay
in new honeycomb that one side has been removed. Again put this in
place with a fresh layer of epoxy. In all this, because the epoxy
layers are somewhat thick, always mix fiber or fox in the resins.
Don't use just epoxy. When this hardens for a couple of days, but no
more, after having hand sanded the top of the surrounding area, put a
lay-up of three glass layers, feather this out wider than the hole you
worked with. Let this set for maybe a week or so and see if it will
hold while hand pressing down on it. Feather all this out so it is
not visible.
Maybe the other guys will venture an evaluation of this process
as to what they think. If it is not over the gas tank, then there are
holes in the ribes that you can work through but would require
removing the wing to get to.
Good luck,
Jesse Wright
On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 2:06 PM, <pastormac@comcast.net> wrote:
> Hi Bob,
> Do you know what type of form core is in the wing? How many layers of fiber
> glass cloth on the external skin?
>
>
> To our success, Stephen McIntosh
>
> On May 16, 2017, at 10:15 AM, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote:
>
> Steve,
>
> Can you determine if the soft spot is over the fuel bay or not? If it is
> over the fuel bay area then I would recommend drilling a small 1/8 inch hole
> thru the outer skin (carefully) in the center of the soft spot and checking
> for fuel contamination. If you find that the foam core has been
> contaminated with fuel the soft spot will spread as the fuel eats more of
> the foam. The solution would be to open up a small part of the outer skin
> of the wing just big enough to ensure access to the affected area, repair
> the leak in the fuel cell and then fill the area with foam and glass over.
>
> If it is not a fuel contamination problem the drilled opening should allow
> you to inject an epoxy mix into the cavity. The hole will be simple to
> repair with a bit of epoxy and flox.
>
> Just my .02 cents worth.
>
> Bob Reed
>
>
> PS: I am making an assumption that the TR-1 Wings used the foam core like
> the TR-4.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "pastormac@comcast.net" <pastormac@comcast.net>
> To: kis-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 7:12 AM
> Subject: KIS-List: Soft spot on inside wing
>
> Hi Guys,
> My plane has developed a soft spot on the wing where I step up to enter the
> cockpit on the pilots side. The copilot's side is fine as is the rest of the
> wings. I have a stepping strip placed over the paint where I step up and
> that is where I can actually push in with my hand and the composite gives
> in. I've included a pic. Not that good of one, put you can see where the
> black strip is. The soft spot is right in the middle of the black strip. Any
> suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!
>
> To our success, Stephen McIntosh
>
>> On May 16, 2017, at 3:02 AM, KIS-List Digest Server
>> <kis-list@matronics.com> wrote:
>>
>> *
>>
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>> Total Messages Posted Mon 05/15/17: 4
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>> Today's Message Index:
>> ----------------------
>>
>> 1. 04:46 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser WindDancer flies (pastormac@comcast.net)
>> 2. 06:04 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser WindDancer flies (M Ketteing)
>> 3. 10:32 AM - Re: KIS Cruiser WindDancer flies (Randy Ott)
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Softness in wing? |
That is good news, maybe the foam has been damaged ( crushed) just where
people have been stepping on and off the wing .
Cant comment on any glues , its been far too long since i had any experience
with any , and the original epoxy ( HEXEL 2427 / Eploite 2427/ also known
as SAF-T-POXY), no longer exists , but maybe a call to West systems will
find something equivalent, but i doubt its necessary to find a certified
avaition glue since your just filling a gap , not adding any structural
strength. The HEXEL 2427 flowed nicely - probably too easy when warm. A few
micro-balloons would thicken it up for your application and not add too much
weight. I would suggest forcing the glue in with a syringe.
let me know how you get on
From: pastormac@comcast.net
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Fw: Softness in wing?
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
Hi Guys,
I drilled a small hole over the softest area right over the fuel tank and
there was no smell of fuel!!! I was going to order some west systems epoxy,
and drill several small holes to stabilize the area. I need one that would
flow well and bond. Any suggestions would be appreciated!!
To our success, Stephen McIntosh
> On May 17, 2017, at 8:34 PM, pastormac@comcast.net wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Keith. Going to drill the small hole tomorrow.
>
> To our success, Stephen McIntosh
>
>> On May 17, 2017, at 8:04 AM, Keith.Miller@esa.int wrote:
>>
>>
>> If the soft spots are more or less inline with each other it could be
that
>> the foam core has started to disintegrate for some reason, most likely
fuel
>> seeping backwards . drilling a small hole ( 1/8") in the top surface aft
of
>> the wing spar over the soft spot will confirm if its fuel that is causing
>> the foam to disintegrate or something else , but at least you will know
and
>> we can start think about how to fix it . ( any sniff of fuel at this
point
>> will confirm it) . Doing nothing, if it is fuel, will only make the
problem
>> bigger over time.
>>
>>
>> From: pastormac@comcast.net
>> To: kis-list@matronics.com
>> Date: 05/17/2017 12:46 PM
>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: Fw: Softness in wing?
>> Sent by: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks Keith. Hoping it's not a fuel cell leak. I have a soft spot on
towards
>> the front where I do not step.
>>
>> To our success, Stephen McIntosh
>>
>>> On May 17, 2017, at 4:28 AM, Keith.Miller@esa.int wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> The wing in that area where you step on , has no wing ribs supporting
it
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Softness in wing? |
Steven,
My approach and it's worth only what you are paying for it.....
1. Use the tap test to map out the extent of the void under the skin.=C2-
Your comments indicate that it is a bit larger than you first indicated an
d you will need to try and identify the affected area as best possible.=C2
- The tap test (tap on skin and listen for difference in sound.) should g
ive you a good measure of the size of the void.
2.=C2-Drill injection holes that will allow you to ensure access to the e
xtent of the open areas.=C2- They should be close enough that you can cov
er the area between them without having to force the mix into it.=C2- (Ch
eck repeatedly for any signs of FUEL)
3. Use an epoxy micro bead mix that will not run out but can still be fluid
enough for injection with a syringe.=C2- Syringes are available from mul
tiple sources with plastic tips.=C2- You may need several.=C2- You don'
t want to use just epoxy because it is too fluid and will run to and settle
in any low spots without filling the voids.=C2- It's also much heavier t
han the micro mix.=C2- I don't know how to describe the micro mix except
to say thin enough to inject but thick enough to not have the epoxy run.=C2
-
4. Be careful to provide openings for the micro mix to ooze out rather than
bulge the skin out.=C2- After application and before the mix has set, ch
eck the area and level the skin if any bulges are detected.=C2- Fill it b
ut don't over fill it.
5.=C2-After cure, do the tap test again to make sure you have it all fill
ed.=C2- (The filled areas will sound different from the void and from the
foam areas.)=C2- Repeat if necessary.
6. Clean up and fill any small holes remaining and touch up paint.
PS:=C2- I have a couple of containers of micro beads left over that I cou
ld send you one if needed.=C2- (Coffee can size)
Hope this helps,
Bob Reed
From: "pastormac@comcast.net" <pastormac@comcast.net>
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Fw: Softness in wing?
Hi Guys,
I drilled a small hole over the softest area right over the fuel tank and t
here was no smell of fuel!!!=C2- I was going to order some west systems e
poxy, and drill several small holes to stabilize the area. I need one that
would flow well and bond. Any suggestions would be appreciated!!
To our success, Stephen McIntosh
> On May 17, 2017, at 8:34 PM, pastormac@comcast.net wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Keith. Going to drill the small hole tomorrow.
>
> To our success, Stephen McIntosh
>
>> On May 17, 2017, at 8:04 AM, Keith.Miller@esa.int wrote:
>>
>>
>> If the soft spots are more or less inline with each other it could be=C2
- that
>> the foam core has=C2- started to disintegrate=C2- for some reason, m
ost likely fuel
>> seeping backwards . drilling a small hole=C2- ( 1/8") in the top surfa
ce=C2- aft of
>> the wing spar over the soft spot=C2- will confirm if its fuel that is
causing
>> the foam to disintegrate=C2- or something else , but at least you will
know and
>> we can start think about how to=C2- fix it . ( any sniff of fuel at th
is point
>> will confirm it) .=C2- Doing=C2- nothing, if it is fuel, will only m
ake the problem
>> bigger over time.
>>
>>
>> From:=C2- =C2- =C2- pastormac@comcast.net
>> To:=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- kis-list@matronics.com
>> Date:=C2- =C2- =C2- 05/17/2017 12:46 PM
>> Subject:=C2- =C2- Re: KIS-List: Fw: Softness in wing?
>> Sent by:=C2- =C2- owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks Keith. Hoping it's not a fuel cell leak. I have a soft spot on to
wards
>> the front where I do not step.
>>
>> To our success, Stephen McIntosh
>>
>>> On May 17, 2017, at 4:28 AM, Keith.Miller@esa.int wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> The=C2- wing=C2- in that area where you step on , has no=C2- wing
ribs supporting it
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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