---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/31/17: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:52 AM - Re: Wing walk (OC) 2. 05:21 AM - Re: Wing walk (Alfred Rosa) 3. 07:02 AM - Re: Wing walk (Robert Reed) 4. 07:11 AM - Re: Wing walk (Alfred Rosa) 5. 07:26 AM - Re: Wing walk (Robert Reed) 6. 07:48 AM - Re: Wing walk (Robert Reed) 7. 09:22 AM - Re: Wing walk (Galin Hernandez) 8. 09:26 AM - Re: Wing walk (Galin Hernandez) 9. 10:15 AM - Re: Wing walk (Ed Hanson) 10. 10:17 AM - Re: Wing walk (Ed Hanson) 11. 10:24 AM - Re: Wing walk (Ed Hanson) 12. 10:43 AM - Re: Wing walk (Robert Reed) 13. 10:43 AM - Re: Wing walk (Ed Hanson) 14. 10:52 AM - Re: Wing walk (Robert Reed) 15. 11:10 AM - Re: Wing walk (Galin Hernandez) 16. 11:18 AM - Re: Wing walk (Ed Hanson) 17. 11:38 AM - Re: Wing walk (Robert Reed) 18. 12:22 PM - Re: Wing walk (Ed Hanson) 19. 01:35 PM - Re: Wing walk (Ed Hanson) 20. 02:31 PM - Re: Wing walk (Galin Hernandez) 21. 02:39 PM - Re: Wing walk (Ed Hanson) 22. 03:40 PM - Re: Wing walk (Ed Hanson) 23. 04:39 PM - Re: Wing walk (Ed Hanson) 24. 05:43 PM - Re: Wing walk (Ed Hanson) 25. 06:47 PM - Re: Wing walk (Ed Hanson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:52:50 AM PST US From: "OC" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk 8/31/2017 Hello Robert, You wrote: OC, I agree with you and were I a younger man with a younger wife the idea of a removable mat would be at the top of my list but the reality of having to put it out and take it up every time is not appealing." a) "... were I a younger man..." Oh come on now. You are not over 84 years of age are you with a variety of medical issues? I am and I don't find the movable protection any burden at all. b) Don't think mat (heavy, difficult to fold) instead think shelf or tool tray liner (light, can easily be balled up (or folded if you insist)) and tossed behind the co pilots heels. c) Besides you are going to buy something (shelf or tool tray liner) to lay over the door sills to protect them any time that you are working on the airplane or getting in or out aren't you? If you don't do that pretty soon your door sills will look mighty shabby. So as long as you are buying some shelf or tool tray liner for the door sills you might as well cut some for wing walks also. If it doesn't work for you then you can glue some sand paper on the tops of your wings. OC =================================== From: Robert Reed Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 1:14 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk ALL, Thank you for your input and especially the photos, they are a great help. As usual there is a diverse set of opinions and solutions, all of which gave me some serious things to consider before placing something permanent or near permanent on my wing top. OC, I agree with you and were I a younger man with a younger wife the idea of a removable mat would be at the top of my list but the reality of having to put it out and take it up every time is not appealing. I also considered the black wing walk as a first choice but quickly considered the heat buildup as being a real problem here in Texas summers. White, as noted, is a dirt magnet but should be cooler. Where to start the wing walk on the leading edge or back several inches was my first question and Galin, your photo was really an eye opener. I can easily see that damage to the leading edge while getting into the plane with the retractable step would be hard to avoid. Ed, seeing you photo of the 17 inch wide walk confirmed my thought of 18 inches or a little less should be sufficient but 12" is just too narrow. Thank you all for your input, Bob Reed ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:26 AM PST US From: Alfred Rosa Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC wrote: > > gave ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:39 AM PST US From: Robert Reed Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk OR the start of many more problems..... From: Alfred Rosa To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 7:21 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC wrote: > > gave S - WIKI - - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:56 AM PST US From: Alfred Rosa Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk A few thoughts: A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection however it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple". The same could be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines. I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape of shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to step. That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size shoe or wore heels? I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of black or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see Galin's pics). If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint with a grit mixture can be used. Al On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Rosa wrote: > A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > > > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC wrote: > > > > gave > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:52 AM PST US From: Robert Reed Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk a) "... were I a younger man..." Oh come on now. You are not over 84 years of age are you with a variety of medical issues? I am and I don't find the movable protection any burden at all. NO, I am not but I may be someday soon and I believe in planning ahead rath er than regretting the past.=C2- That's why I am designing my new retirem ent home to be completely barrier free with wide doors and zero steps.=C2 - b) Don't think mat (heavy, difficult to fold) instead think shelf or tool tray liner (light, can easily be balled up (or folded if you insist)) and tossed behind the co pilots heels. Never thought heavy or difficult to fold but did think about easily forgott en or tripping hazard if not laid our properly. c) Besides=C2- you are going to buy something (shelf or tool tray liner) to lay over the door sills to protect them any time that you are working on the airplane or getting in or out aren't you? If you don't do that pretty soon your door sills will look mighty shabby. So as long as you are buying some shelf or tool tray liner for the door sills you might as well cut some for wing walks also. If it doesn't work for you then you can glue some sand paper on the tops of your wings. Door sills are one thing the wing walking area is another.=C2- Safety is my first concern and looks are taking a back seat. From: OC To: kis-list@matronics.com; REED ROBERT Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 5:53 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk 8/31/2017 Hello Robert, You wrote: =9C OC, I agree with you and were I a younge r man with a younger wife the idea of a removable mat would be at the top of my list but the reality of having to put it out and take it up every time is not appealing." a) "... were I a younger man..." Oh come on now. You are not over 84 years of age are you with a variety of medical issues? I am and I don't find the movable protection any burden at all. b) Don't think mat (heavy, difficult to fold) instead think shelf or tool tray liner (light, can easily be balled up (or folded if you insist)) and tossed behind the co pilots heels. c) Besides=C2- you are going to buy something (shelf or tool tray liner) to lay over the door sills to protect them any time that you are working on the airplane or getting in or out aren't you? If you don't do that pretty soon your door sills will look mighty shabby. So as long as you are buying some shelf or tool tray liner for the door sills you might as well cut some for wing walks also. If it doesn't work for you then you can glue some sand paper on the tops of your wings. OC From: Robert Reed Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 1:14 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk ALL, Thank you for your input and especially the photos, they are a great help. As usual there is a diverse set of opinions and solutions, all of which gav e me some serious things to consider before placing something permanent or near permanent on my wing top.=C2- OC, I agree with you and were I a youn ger man with a younger wife the idea of a removable mat would be at the top of my list but the reality of having to put it out and take it up every time i s not appealing.=C2- I also considered the black wing walk as a first choic e but quickly considered the heat buildup as being a real problem here in Texas summers.=C2- White, as noted, is a dirt magnet but should be cooler.=C2 - Where to start the wing walk on the leading edge or back several inches was my first question and Galin, your photo was really an eye opener.=C2- I can easily see that damage to the leading edge while getting into the plane with the retractable step would be hard to avoid.=C2- Ed, seeing you photo of the 17 inch wide walk confirmed my thought of 18 inches or a little less should be sufficient but 12" is just too narrow. Thank you all for your input, Bob Reed S - WIKI - - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:30 AM PST US From: Robert Reed Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk Al, Totally agree with everything you said.=C2- I hate the thought of putting something on the wing that disturbs the finish or the air flow.=C2- I cr inged at the thought that the Dynon GPS 2020 antenna needed to be mounted o n the outside of the fuselage rather than on the inside.=C2- I spent many hours and years trying to build the perfect airplane with the perfect fini sh but instead of finishing and flying that airplane I spent too many hours obsessing over things that were more cosmetic than functional.=C2- As a result, it has cost me more time and money than I=C2-could ever =C2-ima gine and still it is not near perfect=C2-nor will it ever be perfect.=C2 - My only goal now is to finish the plane and make it as safe as possible .=C2- If the white wing walk turns gray from use then I will be happy as hell.=C2- Right now, I can't look at the plane without seeing every singl e flaw but that's because I can't yet enjoy the ability to lift off the gro und and fly. I know that in the future others will look at the plane and be critical of the finish on the wings, the various flaws in the paint,=C2-or the amateu r upholstery work.=C2- The lower cowling=C2-has already and will contin ue to get some critical remarks=C2-and I will be the first to say I don't like it but it solved a problem at the time.=C2-=C2-As it turns out, t he problem (FADEC)=C2-has been discarded at a very high cost and would no longer require the solution but it is done and will remain until long afte r the first flight.=C2- =C2-That once would have bothered me and I woul d have totally redone the entire thing but not now.=C2- I am resigned to the fact that finishing and flying is more important than show quality and perfection. Bob Reed PS:=C2- I apologize to every builder whom I mentally criticized for some flaw or lack of finish detail that I have seen over the years.=C2- I have now walked the mile in your shoes and have the blisters to prove it. From: Alfred Rosa To: kisbuilders Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:12 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk A few thoughts: A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection howeve r it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple".=C2- The same c ould be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines. I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape of shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to step. =C2- That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size s hoe or wore heels? I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of blac k or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see Gal in's pics).=C2- If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint wi th a grit mixture can be used. Al On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Rosa wrote: A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC wrote: > > gave ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:22:26 AM PST US From: Galin Hernandez Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk Here is a photo of my GPS antennas (Dynon and Garmin 430W) installation under the glareshield. If you make the glareshield out of fiberglass, you don't even need the phonelic cut outs. On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 12:14 PM, Galin Hernandez wrote: > What says you have to mount the DYNON GPS-2020 on the outside of the > fuselage? I have had mine mounted under the glare shield inside the > airplane since 2012 with no problem. REMEMBER you are flying inside a big > fiberglass radome which is 100% transparent to RF signals. > > On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Robert Reed wrote: > >> Al, >> >> Totally agree with everything you said. I hate the thought of putting >> something on the wing that disturbs the finish or the air flow. I cringed >> at the thought that the Dynon GPS 2020 antenna needed to be mounted on the >> outside of the fuselage rather than on the inside. I spent many hours and >> years trying to build the perfect airplane with the perfect finish but >> instead of finishing and flying that airplane I spent too many hours >> obsessing over things that were more cosmetic than functional. As a >> result, it has cost me more time and money than I could ever imagine and >> still it is not near perfect nor will it ever be perfect. My only goal now >> is to finish the plane and make it as safe as possible. If the white wing >> walk turns gray from use then I will be happy as hell. Right now, I can't >> look at the plane without seeing every single flaw but that's because I >> can't yet enjoy the ability to lift off the ground and fly. >> >> I know that in the future others will look at the plane and be critical >> of the finish on the wings, the various flaws in the paint, or the amateur >> upholstery work. The lower cowling has already and will continue to get >> some critical remarks and I will be the first to say I don't like it but it >> solved a problem at the time. As it turns out, the problem (FADEC) has >> been discarded at a very high cost and would no longer require the solution >> but it is done and will remain until long after the first flight. That >> once would have bothered me and I would have totally redone the entire >> thing but not now. I am resigned to the fact that finishing and flying is >> more important than show quality and perfection. >> >> >> Bob Reed >> >> PS: I apologize to every builder whom I mentally criticized for some >> flaw or lack of finish detail that I have seen over the years. I have now >> walked the mile in your shoes and have the blisters to prove it. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Alfred Rosa >> *To:* kisbuilders >> *Sent:* Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:12 AM >> *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: Wing walk >> >> A few thoughts: >> >> A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection >> however it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple". The same >> could be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines. >> >> I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape >> of shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to >> step. That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size >> shoe or wore heels? >> >> I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of >> black or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see >> Galin's pics). If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint with >> a grit mixture can be used. >> >> Al >> >> On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Rosa wrote: >> >> A younger wife is the answer to many problems. >> >> > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC wrote: >> > >> > gave >> >> >> >> >> > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:26:16 AM PST US From: Galin Hernandez Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk What says you have to mount the DYNON GPS-2020 on the outside of the fuselage? I have had mine mounted under the glare shield inside the airplane since 2012 with no problem. REMEMBER you are flying inside a big fiberglass radome which is 100% transparent to RF signals. On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Robert Reed wrote: > Al, > > Totally agree with everything you said. I hate the thought of putting > something on the wing that disturbs the finish or the air flow. I cringed > at the thought that the Dynon GPS 2020 antenna needed to be mounted on the > outside of the fuselage rather than on the inside. I spent many hours and > years trying to build the perfect airplane with the perfect finish but > instead of finishing and flying that airplane I spent too many hours > obsessing over things that were more cosmetic than functional. As a > result, it has cost me more time and money than I could ever imagine and > still it is not near perfect nor will it ever be perfect. My only goal now > is to finish the plane and make it as safe as possible. If the white wing > walk turns gray from use then I will be happy as hell. Right now, I can't > look at the plane without seeing every single flaw but that's because I > can't yet enjoy the ability to lift off the ground and fly. > > I know that in the future others will look at the plane and be critical of > the finish on the wings, the various flaws in the paint, or the amateur > upholstery work. The lower cowling has already and will continue to get > some critical remarks and I will be the first to say I don't like it but it > solved a problem at the time. As it turns out, the problem (FADEC) has > been discarded at a very high cost and would no longer require the solution > but it is done and will remain until long after the first flight. That > once would have bothered me and I would have totally redone the entire > thing but not now. I am resigned to the fact that finishing and flying is > more important than show quality and perfection. > > > Bob Reed > > PS: I apologize to every builder whom I mentally criticized for some flaw > or lack of finish detail that I have seen over the years. I have now > walked the mile in your shoes and have the blisters to prove it. > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alfred Rosa > *To:* kisbuilders > *Sent:* Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:12 AM > *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: Wing walk > > A few thoughts: > > A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection > however it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple". The same > could be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines. > > I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape of > shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to > step. That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size > shoe or wore heels? > > I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of > black or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see > Galin's pics). If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint with > a grit mixture can be used. > > Al > > On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Rosa wrote: > > A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > > > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC wrote: > > > > gave > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:15:20 AM PST US From: "Ed Hanson" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk Bob, I would try mounting the GPS antennas under the glare shield as Galin says. I have a fiberglass glare shield and mine works fine with GPS and ADS-B in. You can always move it to outside later if need be. ----- Original Message ----- From: Galin Hernandez To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:14 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk What says you have to mount the DYNON GPS-2020 on the outside of the fuselage? I have had mine mounted under the glare shield inside the airplane since 2012 with no problem. REMEMBER you are flying inside a big fiberglass radome which is 100% transparent to RF signals. On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Robert Reed wrote: Al, Totally agree with everything you said. I hate the thought of putting something on the wing that disturbs the finish or the air flow. I cringed at the thought that the Dynon GPS 2020 antenna needed to be mounted on the outside of the fuselage rather than on the inside. I spent many hours and years trying to build the perfect airplane with the perfect finish but instead of finishing and flying that airplane I spent too many hours obsessing over things that were more cosmetic than functional. As a result, it has cost me more time and money than I could ever imagine and still it is not near perfect nor will it ever be perfect. My only goal now is to finish the plane and make it as safe as possible. If the white wing walk turns gray from use then I will be happy as hell. Right now, I can't look at the plane without seeing every single flaw but that's because I can't yet enjoy the ability to lift off the ground and fly. I know that in the future others will look at the plane and be critical of the finish on the wings, the various flaws in the paint, or the amateur upholstery work. The lower cowling has already and will continue to get some critical remarks and I will be the first to say I don't like it but it solved a problem at the time. As it turns out, the problem (FADEC) has been discarded at a very high cost and would no longer require the solution but it is done and will remain until long after the first flight. That once would have bothered me and I would have totally redone the entire thing but not now. I am resigned to the fact that finishing and flying is more important than show quality and perfection. Bob Reed PS: I apologize to every builder whom I mentally criticized for some flaw or lack of finish detail that I have seen over the years. I have now walked the mile in your shoes and have the blisters to prove it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: Alfred Rosa To: kisbuilders Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:12 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk A few thoughts: A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection however it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple". The same could be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines. I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape of shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to step. That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size shoe or wore heels? I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of black or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see Galin's pics). If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint with a grit mixture can be used. Al On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Rosa wrote: A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC wrote: > > gave ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:25 AM PST US From: "Ed Hanson" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk Bob, I would try mounting the GPS antennas under the glare shield as Galin says. I have a fiberglass glare shield and mine works fine with GPS and ADS-B in. You can always move it to outside later if need be. ----- Original Message ----- From: Galin Hernandez To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:14 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk What says you have to mount the DYNON GPS-2020 on the outside of the fuselage? I have had mine mounted under the glare shield inside the airplane since 2012 with no problem. REMEMBER you are flying inside a big fiberglass radome which is 100% transparent to RF signals. On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Robert Reed wrote: Al, Totally agree with everything you said. I hate the thought of putting something on the wing that disturbs the finish or the air flow. I cringed at the thought that the Dynon GPS 2020 antenna needed to be mounted on the outside of the fuselage rather than on the inside. I spent many hours and years trying to build the perfect airplane with the perfect finish but instead of finishing and flying that airplane I spent too many hours obsessing over things that were more cosmetic than functional. As a result, it has cost me more time and money than I could ever imagine and still it is not near perfect nor will it ever be perfect. My only goal now is to finish the plane and make it as safe as possible. If the white wing walk turns gray from use then I will be happy as hell. Right now, I can't look at the plane without seeing every single flaw but that's because I can't yet enjoy the ability to lift off the ground and fly. I know that in the future others will look at the plane and be critical of the finish on the wings, the various flaws in the paint, or the amateur upholstery work. The lower cowling has already and will continue to get some critical remarks and I will be the first to say I don't like it but it solved a problem at the time. As it turns out, the problem (FADEC) has been discarded at a very high cost and would no longer require the solution but it is done and will remain until long after the first flight. That once would have bothered me and I would have totally redone the entire thing but not now. I am resigned to the fact that finishing and flying is more important than show quality and perfection. Bob Reed PS: I apologize to every builder whom I mentally criticized for some flaw or lack of finish detail that I have seen over the years. I have now walked the mile in your shoes and have the blisters to prove it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: Alfred Rosa To: kisbuilders Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:12 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk A few thoughts: A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection however it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple". The same could be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines. I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape of shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to step. That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size shoe or wore heels? I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of black or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see Galin's pics). If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint with a grit mixture can be used. Al On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Rosa wrote: A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC wrote: > > gave ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:37 AM PST US From: "Ed Hanson" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk Bob, I would try mounting the GPS antennas under the glare shield as Galin says. I have a fiberglass glare shield and mine works fine with GPS and ADS-B in. You can always move it to outside later if need be. ----- Original Message ----- From: Galin Hernandez To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:14 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk What says you have to mount the DYNON GPS-2020 on the outside of the fuselage? I have had mine mounted under the glare shield inside the airplane since 2012 with no problem. REMEMBER you are flying inside a big fiberglass radome which is 100% transparent to RF signals. On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Robert Reed wrote: Al, Totally agree with everything you said. I hate the thought of putting something on the wing that disturbs the finish or the air flow. I cringed at the thought that the Dynon GPS 2020 antenna needed to be mounted on the outside of the fuselage rather than on the inside. I spent many hours and years trying to build the perfect airplane with the perfect finish but instead of finishing and flying that airplane I spent too many hours obsessing over things that were more cosmetic than functional. As a result, it has cost me more time and money than I could ever imagine and still it is not near perfect nor will it ever be perfect. My only goal now is to finish the plane and make it as safe as possible. If the white wing walk turns gray from use then I will be happy as hell. Right now, I can't look at the plane without seeing every single flaw but that's because I can't yet enjoy the ability to lift off the ground and fly. I know that in the future others will look at the plane and be critical of the finish on the wings, the various flaws in the paint, or the amateur upholstery work. The lower cowling has already and will continue to get some critical remarks and I will be the first to say I don't like it but it solved a problem at the time. As it turns out, the problem (FADEC) has been discarded at a very high cost and would no longer require the solution but it is done and will remain until long after the first flight. That once would have bothered me and I would have totally redone the entire thing but not now. I am resigned to the fact that finishing and flying is more important than show quality and perfection. Bob Reed PS: I apologize to every builder whom I mentally criticized for some flaw or lack of finish detail that I have seen over the years. I have now walked the mile in your shoes and have the blisters to prove it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: Alfred Rosa To: kisbuilders Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:12 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk A few thoughts: A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection however it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple". The same could be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines. I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape of shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to step. That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size shoe or wore heels? I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of black or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see Galin's pics). If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint with a grit mixture can be used. Al On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Rosa wrote: A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC wrote: > > gave ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:06 AM PST US From: Robert Reed Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk Galin, I had planned and purchased the GPS-2020 prior to mounting the overhead con sole with every intent to mount it inside the overhead console but then I r ead the following. The SV-GPS-2020 is limited to ground speeds of 400 knots and below. To meet the integrity level required for an ADS-B position source, the SV-GPS-2020 needs a stronger GPS signal than the SV-GPS-250 and may not work acceptabl y unless mounted on the outside of the aircraft. I called Dynon to confirm their recommendation included fiberglass aircraft and they confirmed.=C2- They did say that it "might" work ok and I could try it and if not acceptable then move to the outside.=C2- Personally, I am TIRED of mounting, dismounting, mounting and repeating.=C2- I mounted the GPS antenna on the outside=C2-top just behind the back of the doors. =C2- I wired and upholstered the overhead and it's IN and done, hopefully to stay in for a long time. Bob From: Galin Hernandez To: "kis-list@matronics.com" Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:28 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk What says you have to mount the DYNON GPS-2020 on the outside of the fusela ge? I have had mine mounted under the glare shield inside the airplane sinc e 2012 with no problem. REMEMBER you are flying inside a big fiberglass rad ome which is 100% transparent to RF signals. On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Robert Reed wrote: Al, Totally agree with everything you said.=C2- I hate the thought of putting something on the wing that disturbs the finish or the air flow.=C2- I cr inged at the thought that the Dynon GPS 2020 antenna needed to be mounted o n the outside of the fuselage rather than on the inside.=C2- I spent many hours and years trying to build the perfect airplane with the perfect fini sh but instead of finishing and flying that airplane I spent too many hours obsessing over things that were more cosmetic than functional.=C2- As a result, it has cost me more time and money than I=C2-could ever =C2-ima gine and still it is not near perfect=C2-nor will it ever be perfect.=C2 - My only goal now is to finish the plane and make it as safe as possible .=C2- If the white wing walk turns gray from use then I will be happy as hell.=C2- Right now, I can't look at the plane without seeing every singl e flaw but that's because I can't yet enjoy the ability to lift off the gro und and fly. I know that in the future others will look at the plane and be critical of the finish on the wings, the various flaws in the paint,=C2-or the amateu r upholstery work.=C2- The lower cowling=C2-has already and will contin ue to get some critical remarks=C2-and I will be the first to say I don't like it but it solved a problem at the time.=C2-=C2-As it turns out, t he problem (FADEC)=C2-has been discarded at a very high cost and would no longer require the solution but it is done and will remain until long afte r the first flight.=C2- =C2-That once would have bothered me and I woul d have totally redone the entire thing but not now.=C2- I am resigned to the fact that finishing and flying is more important than show quality and perfection. Bob Reed PS:=C2- I apologize to every builder whom I mentally criticized for some flaw or lack of finish detail that I have seen over the years.=C2- I have now walked the mile in your shoes and have the blisters to prove it. From: Alfred Rosa To: kisbuilders Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:12 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk A few thoughts: A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection howeve r it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple".=C2- The same c ould be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines. I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape of shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to step. =C2- That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size s hoe or wore heels? I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of blac k or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see Gal in's pics).=C2- If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint wi th a grit mixture can be used. Al On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Rosa wrote: A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC wrote: > > gave ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:10 AM PST US From: "Ed Hanson" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk Bob, I would try mounting the GPS antennas under the glare shield as Galin says. I have a fiberglass glare shield and mine works fine with GPS and ADS-B in. You can always move it to outside later if need be. ----- Original Message ----- From: Galin Hernandez To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:14 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk What says you have to mount the DYNON GPS-2020 on the outside of the fuselage? I have had mine mounted under the glare shield inside the airplane since 2012 with no problem. REMEMBER you are flying inside a big fiberglass radome which is 100% transparent to RF signals. On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Robert Reed wrote: Al, Totally agree with everything you said. I hate the thought of putting something on the wing that disturbs the finish or the air flow. I cringed at the thought that the Dynon GPS 2020 antenna needed to be mounted on the outside of the fuselage rather than on the inside. I spent many hours and years trying to build the perfect airplane with the perfect finish but instead of finishing and flying that airplane I spent too many hours obsessing over things that were more cosmetic than functional. As a result, it has cost me more time and money than I could ever imagine and still it is not near perfect nor will it ever be perfect. My only goal now is to finish the plane and make it as safe as possible. If the white wing walk turns gray from use then I will be happy as hell. Right now, I can't look at the plane without seeing every single flaw but that's because I can't yet enjoy the ability to lift off the ground and fly. I know that in the future others will look at the plane and be critical of the finish on the wings, the various flaws in the paint, or the amateur upholstery work. The lower cowling has already and will continue to get some critical remarks and I will be the first to say I don't like it but it solved a problem at the time. As it turns out, the problem (FADEC) has been discarded at a very high cost and would no longer require the solution but it is done and will remain until long after the first flight. That once would have bothered me and I would have totally redone the entire thing but not now. I am resigned to the fact that finishing and flying is more important than show quality and perfection. Bob Reed PS: I apologize to every builder whom I mentally criticized for some flaw or lack of finish detail that I have seen over the years. I have now walked the mile in your shoes and have the blisters to prove it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: Alfred Rosa To: kisbuilders Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:12 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk A few thoughts: A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection however it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple". The same could be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines. I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape of shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to step. That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size shoe or wore heels? I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of black or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see Galin's pics). If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint with a grit mixture can be used. Al On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Rosa wrote: A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC wrote: > > gave ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:12 AM PST US From: Robert Reed Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk Galin, I had planned and purchased the GPS-2020 prior to mounting the overhead con sole with every intent to mount it inside the overhead console but then I r ead the following. The SV-GPS-2020 is limited to ground speeds of 400 knots and below. To meet the integrity level required for an ADS-B position source, the SV-GPS-2020 needs a stronger GPS signal than the SV-GPS-250 and may not work acceptabl y unless mounted on the outside of the aircraft. I called Dynon to confirm their recommendation included fiberglass aircraft and they confirmed.=C2- They did say that it "might" work ok and I could try it and if not acceptable then move to the outside.=C2- Personally, I am TIRED of mounting, dismounting, mounting and repeating.=C2- I mounted the GPS antenna on the outside=C2-top just behind the back of the doors. =C2- I wired and upholstered the overhead and it's IN and done, hopefully to stay in for a long time. Bob From: Galin Hernandez To: "kis-list@matronics.com" Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:28 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk What says you have to mount the DYNON GPS-2020 on the outside of the fusela ge? I have had mine mounted under the glare shield inside the airplane sinc e 2012 with no problem. REMEMBER you are flying inside a big fiberglass rad ome which is 100% transparent to RF signals. On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Robert Reed wrote: Al, Totally agree with everything you said.=C2- I hate the thought of putting something on the wing that disturbs the finish or the air flow.=C2- I cr inged at the thought that the Dynon GPS 2020 antenna needed to be mounted o n the outside of the fuselage rather than on the inside.=C2- I spent many hours and years trying to build the perfect airplane with the perfect fini sh but instead of finishing and flying that airplane I spent too many hours obsessing over things that were more cosmetic than functional.=C2- As a result, it has cost me more time and money than I=C2-could ever =C2-ima gine and still it is not near perfect=C2-nor will it ever be perfect.=C2 - My only goal now is to finish the plane and make it as safe as possible .=C2- If the white wing walk turns gray from use then I will be happy as hell.=C2- Right now, I can't look at the plane without seeing every singl e flaw but that's because I can't yet enjoy the ability to lift off the gro und and fly. I know that in the future others will look at the plane and be critical of the finish on the wings, the various flaws in the paint,=C2-or the amateu r upholstery work.=C2- The lower cowling=C2-has already and will contin ue to get some critical remarks=C2-and I will be the first to say I don't like it but it solved a problem at the time.=C2-=C2-As it turns out, t he problem (FADEC)=C2-has been discarded at a very high cost and would no longer require the solution but it is done and will remain until long afte r the first flight.=C2- =C2-That once would have bothered me and I woul d have totally redone the entire thing but not now.=C2- I am resigned to the fact that finishing and flying is more important than show quality and perfection. Bob Reed PS:=C2- I apologize to every builder whom I mentally criticized for some flaw or lack of finish detail that I have seen over the years.=C2- I have now walked the mile in your shoes and have the blisters to prove it. From: Alfred Rosa To: kisbuilders Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:12 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk A few thoughts: A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection howeve r it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple".=C2- The same c ould be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines. I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape of shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to step. =C2- That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size s hoe or wore heels? I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of blac k or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see Gal in's pics).=C2- If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint wi th a grit mixture can be used. Al On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Rosa wrote: A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC wrote: > > gave ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:10:15 AM PST US From: Galin Hernandez Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk Take it from someone who has studies and worked in RF propagation for over 40yrs, it makes no noticeable difference. Otherwise fiberglass radomes would not exist over the majority of radar sites/installations. But if it is done then don't worry about it and continue forward. Except for aesthetics, there will be little to no difference in aerodynamics or RF reception and we all want to see your bird flying. On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Robert Reed wrote: > Galin, > > I had planned and purchased the GPS-2020 prior to mounting the overhead > console with every intent to mount it inside the overhead console but then > I read the following. > > The SV-GPS-2020 is limited to ground speeds of 400 knots and below. To > meet the integrity level required for an ADS-B position source, the > SV-GPS-2020 needs a stronger GPS signal than the SV-GPS-250 and may not > work acceptably unless mounted on the outside of the aircraft. > > > I called Dynon to confirm their recommendation included fiberglass > aircraft and they confirmed. They did say that it "might" work ok and I > could try it and if not acceptable then move to the outside. Personally, > I am TIRED of mounting, dismounting, mounting and repeating. I mounted the > GPS antenna on the outside top just behind the back of the doors. I wired > and upholstered the overhead and it's IN and done, hopefully to stay in for > a long time. > > Bob > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Galin Hernandez > *To:* "kis-list@matronics.com" > *Sent:* Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:28 AM > *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: Wing walk > > What says you have to mount the DYNON GPS-2020 on the outside of the > fuselage? I have had mine mounted under the glare shield inside the > airplane since 2012 with no problem. REMEMBER you are flying inside a big > fiberglass radome which is 100% transparent to RF signals. > > On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Robert Reed wrote: > > Al, > > Totally agree with everything you said. I hate the thought of putting > something on the wing that disturbs the finish or the air flow. I cringed > at the thought that the Dynon GPS 2020 antenna needed to be mounted on the > outside of the fuselage rather than on the inside. I spent many hours and > years trying to build the perfect airplane with the perfect finish but > instead of finishing and flying that airplane I spent too many hours > obsessing over things that were more cosmetic than functional. As a > result, it has cost me more time and money than I could ever imagine and > still it is not near perfect nor will it ever be perfect. My only goal now > is to finish the plane and make it as safe as possible. If the white wing > walk turns gray from use then I will be happy as hell. Right now, I can't > look at the plane without seeing every single flaw but that's because I > can't yet enjoy the ability to lift off the ground and fly. > > I know that in the future others will look at the plane and be critical of > the finish on the wings, the various flaws in the paint, or the amateur > upholstery work. The lower cowling has already and will continue to get > some critical remarks and I will be the first to say I don't like it but it > solved a problem at the time. As it turns out, the problem (FADEC) has > been discarded at a very high cost and would no longer require the solution > but it is done and will remain until long after the first flight. That > once would have bothered me and I would have totally redone the entire > thing but not now. I am resigned to the fact that finishing and flying is > more important than show quality and perfection. > > > Bob Reed > > PS: I apologize to every builder whom I mentally criticized for some flaw > or lack of finish detail that I have seen over the years. I have now > walked the mile in your shoes and have the blisters to prove it. > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alfred Rosa > *To:* kisbuilders > *Sent:* Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:12 AM > *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: Wing walk > > A few thoughts: > > A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection > however it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple". The same > could be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines. > > I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape of > shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to > step. That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size > shoe or wore heels? > > I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of > black or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see > Galin's pics). If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint with > a grit mixture can be used. > > Al > > On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Rosa wrote: > > A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > > > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC wrote: > > > > gave > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:57 AM PST US From: "Ed Hanson" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk Bob, I would try mounting the GPS antennas under the glare shield as Galin says. I have a fiberglass glare shield and mine works fine with GPS and ADS-B in. You can always move it to outside later if need be. ----- Original Message ----- From: Galin Hernandez To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:14 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk What says you have to mount the DYNON GPS-2020 on the outside of the fuselage? I have had mine mounted under the glare shield inside the airplane since 2012 with no problem. REMEMBER you are flying inside a big fiberglass radome which is 100% transparent to RF signals. On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Robert Reed wrote: Al, Totally agree with everything you said. I hate the thought of putting something on the wing that disturbs the finish or the air flow. I cringed at the thought that the Dynon GPS 2020 antenna needed to be mounted on the outside of the fuselage rather than on the inside. I spent many hours and years trying to build the perfect airplane with the perfect finish but instead of finishing and flying that airplane I spent too many hours obsessing over things that were more cosmetic than functional. As a result, it has cost me more time and money than I could ever imagine and still it is not near perfect nor will it ever be perfect. My only goal now is to finish the plane and make it as safe as possible. If the white wing walk turns gray from use then I will be happy as hell. Right now, I can't look at the plane without seeing every single flaw but that's because I can't yet enjoy the ability to lift off the ground and fly. I know that in the future others will look at the plane and be critical of the finish on the wings, the various flaws in the paint, or the amateur upholstery work. The lower cowling has already and will continue to get some critical remarks and I will be the first to say I don't like it but it solved a problem at the time. As it turns out, the problem (FADEC) has been discarded at a very high cost and would no longer require the solution but it is done and will remain until long after the first flight. That once would have bothered me and I would have totally redone the entire thing but not now. I am resigned to the fact that finishing and flying is more important than show quality and perfection. Bob Reed PS: I apologize to every builder whom I mentally criticized for some flaw or lack of finish detail that I have seen over the years. I have now walked the mile in your shoes and have the blisters to prove it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: Alfred Rosa To: kisbuilders Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:12 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk A few thoughts: A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection however it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple". The same could be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines. I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape of shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to step. That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size shoe or wore heels? I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of black or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see Galin's pics). If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint with a grit mixture can be used. Al On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Rosa wrote: A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC wrote: > > gave ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:19 AM PST US From: Robert Reed Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk Galin, It's done, has been done for a couple of weeks.=C2- I hated it at first b ut now I just look at it as one more step behind me.=C2- I posted a photo to the Facebook group showing current status including the GPS antenna.=C2 - Hell, it just looks like a wart on the top of the plane.=C2- (BG)=C2 - Got a lot of wiring to do this weekend and waiting for the FLYEFII syst em to arrive.=C2- Received all the engine sensors so I can start on them. =C2- Also have the Dynon Adahrs with pitot and static lines to install th is weekend. I estimate about 160 hours of actual work remaining=C2-on the plane and a nother 40 hours for documentation and paperwork. I am looking for a good Test Pilot to do the first 5 hours.=C2- I know I am not current or qualified to do that.=C2- Know anyone Galin....Hint, Hint? Bob PS:=C2- Sure glad you weren't still in Houston during all of the current disaster. From: Galin Hernandez To: "kis-list@matronics.com" Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 1:13 PM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk Take it from someone who has studies and worked in RF propagation for over 40yrs, it makes no noticeable difference. Otherwise fiberglass radomes woul d not exist over the majority of radar sites/installations. But if it is do ne then don't worry about it and continue forward. Except for aesthetics, t here will be little to no difference in aerodynamics or RF reception and we all want to see your bird flying.=C2- On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Robert Reed wrote: Galin, I had planned and purchased the GPS-2020 prior to mounting the overhead con sole with every intent to mount it inside the overhead console but then I r ead the following. The SV-GPS-2020 is limited to ground speeds of 400 knots and below. To meet the integrity level required for an ADS-B position source, the SV-GPS-2020 needs a stronger GPS signal than the SV-GPS-250 and may not work acceptabl y unless mounted on the outside of the aircraft. I called Dynon to confirm their recommendation included fiberglass aircraft and they confirmed.=C2- They did say that it "might" work ok and I could try it and if not acceptable then move to the outside.=C2- Personally, I am TIRED of mounting, dismounting, mounting and repeating.=C2- I mounted the GPS antenna on the outside=C2-top just behind the back of the doors. =C2- I wired and upholstered the overhead and it's IN and done, hopefully to stay in for a long time. Bob From: Galin Hernandez To: "kis-list@matronics.com" Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:28 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk What says you have to mount the DYNON GPS-2020 on the outside of the fusela ge? I have had mine mounted under the glare shield inside the airplane sinc e 2012 with no problem. REMEMBER you are flying inside a big fiberglass rad ome which is 100% transparent to RF signals. On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Robert Reed wrote: Al, Totally agree with everything you said.=C2- I hate the thought of putting something on the wing that disturbs the finish or the air flow.=C2- I cr inged at the thought that the Dynon GPS 2020 antenna needed to be mounted o n the outside of the fuselage rather than on the inside.=C2- I spent many hours and years trying to build the perfect airplane with the perfect fini sh but instead of finishing and flying that airplane I spent too many hours obsessing over things that were more cosmetic than functional.=C2- As a result, it has cost me more time and money than I=C2-could ever =C2-ima gine and still it is not near perfect=C2-nor will it ever be perfect.=C2 - My only goal now is to finish the plane and make it as safe as possible .=C2- If the white wing walk turns gray from use then I will be happy as hell.=C2- Right now, I can't look at the plane without seeing every singl e flaw but that's because I can't yet enjoy the ability to lift off the gro und and fly. I know that in the future others will look at the plane and be critical of the finish on the wings, the various flaws in the paint,=C2-or the amateu r upholstery work.=C2- The lower cowling=C2-has already and will contin ue to get some critical remarks=C2-and I will be the first to say I don't like it but it solved a problem at the time.=C2-=C2-As it turns out, t he problem (FADEC)=C2-has been discarded at a very high cost and would no longer require the solution but it is done and will remain until long afte r the first flight.=C2- =C2-That once would have bothered me and I woul d have totally redone the entire thing but not now.=C2- I am resigned to the fact that finishing and flying is more important than show quality and perfection. Bob Reed PS:=C2- I apologize to every builder whom I mentally criticized for some flaw or lack of finish detail that I have seen over the years.=C2- I have now walked the mile in your shoes and have the blisters to prove it. From: Alfred Rosa To: kisbuilders Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:12 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk A few thoughts: A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection howeve r it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple".=C2- The same c ould be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines. I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape of shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to step. =C2- That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size s hoe or wore heels? I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of blac k or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see Gal in's pics).=C2- If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint wi th a grit mixture can be used. Al On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Rosa wrote: A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC wrote: > > gave ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:22:02 PM PST US From: "Ed Hanson" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk Bob, I would try mounting the GPS antennas under the glare shield as Galin says. I have a fiberglass glare shield and mine works fine with GPS and ADS-B in. You can always move it to outside later if need be. ----- Original Message ----- From: Galin Hernandez To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:14 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk What says you have to mount the DYNON GPS-2020 on the outside of the fuselage? I have had mine mounted under the glare shield inside the airplane since 2012 with no problem. REMEMBER you are flying inside a big fiberglass radome which is 100% transparent to RF signals. On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Robert Reed wrote: Al, Totally agree with everything you said. I hate the thought of putting something on the wing that disturbs the finish or the air flow. I cringed at the thought that the Dynon GPS 2020 antenna needed to be mounted on the outside of the fuselage rather than on the inside. I spent many hours and years trying to build the perfect airplane with the perfect finish but instead of finishing and flying that airplane I spent too many hours obsessing over things that were more cosmetic than functional. As a result, it has cost me more time and money than I could ever imagine and still it is not near perfect nor will it ever be perfect. My only goal now is to finish the plane and make it as safe as possible. If the white wing walk turns gray from use then I will be happy as hell. Right now, I can't look at the plane without seeing every single flaw but that's because I can't yet enjoy the ability to lift off the ground and fly. I know that in the future others will look at the plane and be critical of the finish on the wings, the various flaws in the paint, or the amateur upholstery work. The lower cowling has already and will continue to get some critical remarks and I will be the first to say I don't like it but it solved a problem at the time. As it turns out, the problem (FADEC) has been discarded at a very high cost and would no longer require the solution but it is done and will remain until long after the first flight. That once would have bothered me and I would have totally redone the entire thing but not now. I am resigned to the fact that finishing and flying is more important than show quality and perfection. Bob Reed PS: I apologize to every builder whom I mentally criticized for some flaw or lack of finish detail that I have seen over the years. I have now walked the mile in your shoes and have the blisters to prove it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: Alfred Rosa To: kisbuilders Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:12 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk A few thoughts: A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection however it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple". The same could be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines. I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape of shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to step. That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size shoe or wore heels? I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of black or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see Galin's pics). If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint with a grit mixture can be used. Al On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Rosa wrote: A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC wrote: > > gave ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:35:36 PM PST US From: "Ed Hanson" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk Bob, I would try mounting the GPS antennas under the glare shield as Galin says. I have a fiberglass glare shield and mine works fine with GPS and ADS-B in. You can always move it to outside later if need be. ----- Original Message ----- From: Galin Hernandez To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:14 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk What says you have to mount the DYNON GPS-2020 on the outside of the fuselage? I have had mine mounted under the glare shield inside the airplane since 2012 with no problem. REMEMBER you are flying inside a big fiberglass radome which is 100% transparent to RF signals. On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Robert Reed wrote: Al, Totally agree with everything you said. I hate the thought of putting something on the wing that disturbs the finish or the air flow. I cringed at the thought that the Dynon GPS 2020 antenna needed to be mounted on the outside of the fuselage rather than on the inside. I spent many hours and years trying to build the perfect airplane with the perfect finish but instead of finishing and flying that airplane I spent too many hours obsessing over things that were more cosmetic than functional. As a result, it has cost me more time and money than I could ever imagine and still it is not near perfect nor will it ever be perfect. My only goal now is to finish the plane and make it as safe as possible. If the white wing walk turns gray from use then I will be happy as hell. Right now, I can't look at the plane without seeing every single flaw but that's because I can't yet enjoy the ability to lift off the ground and fly. I know that in the future others will look at the plane and be critical of the finish on the wings, the various flaws in the paint, or the amateur upholstery work. The lower cowling has already and will continue to get some critical remarks and I will be the first to say I don't like it but it solved a problem at the time. As it turns out, the problem (FADEC) has been discarded at a very high cost and would no longer require the solution but it is done and will remain until long after the first flight. That once would have bothered me and I would have totally redone the entire thing but not now. I am resigned to the fact that finishing and flying is more important than show quality and perfection. Bob Reed PS: I apologize to every builder whom I mentally criticized for some flaw or lack of finish detail that I have seen over the years. I have now walked the mile in your shoes and have the blisters to prove it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: Alfred Rosa To: kisbuilders Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:12 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk A few thoughts: A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection however it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple". The same could be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines. I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape of shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to step. That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size shoe or wore heels? I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of black or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see Galin's pics). If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint with a grit mixture can be used. Al On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Rosa wrote: A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC wrote: > > gave ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:31:01 PM PST US From: Galin Hernandez Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk Bob; We can get you current and qualified to do the flights. We did that for Ed Hanson and he fully enjoyed being the 1st person to fly his creation. Once you have the airworthiness certificate in hand it is a simple 3 step process that even the insurance company said was acceptable: Step 1 - Get 10hrs of dual and an instructor "sign off" in a DA40. This should be easy to do in your area. Step 2 - Visit St. Augustine for a few days and get 5hrs of KIS4 "orientation" with me. I can't sign as an instructor but with all my KIS4 hours can get you real comfortable with the airframe and the insurance company agreed with this. Step 3 - Go back to Lancaster and you enjoy the fruits of your hard work by making the flight(s). You will always regret not doing the first flight in your airplane. Virus-free. www.avg.com <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 2:30 PM, Robert Reed wrote: > Galin, > > It's done, has been done for a couple of weeks. I hated it at first but > now I just look at it as one more step behind me. I posted a photo to the > Facebook group showing current status including the GPS antenna. Hell, it > just looks like a wart on the top of the plane. (BG) Got a lot of wiring > to do this weekend and waiting for the FLYEFII system to arrive. Received > all the engine sensors so I can start on them. Also have the Dynon Adahrs > with pitot and static lines to install this weekend. > > I estimate about 160 hours of actual work remaining on the plane and > another 40 hours for documentation and paperwork. > > I am looking for a good Test Pilot to do the first 5 hours. I know I am > not current or qualified to do that. > > Know anyone Galin....Hint, Hint? > > Bob > > PS: Sure glad you weren't still in Houston during all of the current > disaster. > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Galin Hernandez > *To:* "kis-list@matronics.com" > *Sent:* Thursday, August 31, 2017 1:13 PM > > *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: Wing walk > > Take it from someone who has studies and worked in RF propagation for over > 40yrs, it makes no noticeable difference. Otherwise fiberglass radomes > would not exist over the majority of radar sites/installations. But if it > is done then don't worry about it and continue forward. Except for > aesthetics, there will be little to no difference in aerodynamics or RF > reception and we all want to see your bird flying. > > On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Robert Reed wrote: > > Galin, > > I had planned and purchased the GPS-2020 prior to mounting the overhead > console with every intent to mount it inside the overhead console but then > I read the following. > > The SV-GPS-2020 is limited to ground speeds of 400 knots and below. To > meet the integrity level required for an ADS-B position source, the > SV-GPS-2020 needs a stronger GPS signal than the SV-GPS-250 and may not > work acceptably unless mounted on the outside of the aircraft. > > > I called Dynon to confirm their recommendation included fiberglass > aircraft and they confirmed. They did say that it "might" work ok and I > could try it and if not acceptable then move to the outside. Personally, > I am TIRED of mounting, dismounting, mounting and repeating. I mounted the > GPS antenna on the outside top just behind the back of the doors. I wired > and upholstered the overhead and it's IN and done, hopefully to stay in for > a long time. > > Bob > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Galin Hernandez > *To:* "kis-list@matronics.com" > *Sent:* Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:28 AM > *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: Wing walk > > What says you have to mount the DYNON GPS-2020 on the outside of the > fuselage? I have had mine mounted under the glare shield inside the > airplane since 2012 with no problem. REMEMBER you are flying inside a big > fiberglass radome which is 100% transparent to RF signals. > > On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Robert Reed wrote: > > Al, > > Totally agree with everything you said. I hate the thought of putting > something on the wing that disturbs the finish or the air flow. I cringed > at the thought that the Dynon GPS 2020 antenna needed to be mounted on the > outside of the fuselage rather than on the inside. I spent many hours and > years trying to build the perfect airplane with the perfect finish but > instead of finishing and flying that airplane I spent too many hours > obsessing over things that were more cosmetic than functional. As a > result, it has cost me more time and money than I could ever imagine and > still it is not near perfect nor will it ever be perfect. My only goal now > is to finish the plane and make it as safe as possible. If the white wing > walk turns gray from use then I will be happy as hell. Right now, I can't > look at the plane without seeing every single flaw but that's because I > can't yet enjoy the ability to lift off the ground and fly. > > I know that in the future others will look at the plane and be critical of > the finish on the wings, the various flaws in the paint, or the amateur > upholstery work. The lower cowling has already and will continue to get > some critical remarks and I will be the first to say I don't like it but it > solved a problem at the time. As it turns out, the problem (FADEC) has > been discarded at a very high cost and would no longer require the solution > but it is done and will remain until long after the first flight. That > once would have bothered me and I would have totally redone the entire > thing but not now. I am resigned to the fact that finishing and flying is > more important than show quality and perfection. > > > Bob Reed > > PS: I apologize to every builder whom I mentally criticized for some flaw > or lack of finish detail that I have seen over the years. I have now > walked the mile in your shoes and have the blisters to prove it. > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alfred Rosa > *To:* kisbuilders > *Sent:* Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:12 AM > *Subject:* Re: KIS-List: Wing walk > > A few thoughts: > > A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection > however it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple". The same > could be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines. > > I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape of > shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to > step. That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size > shoe or wore heels? > > I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of > black or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see > Galin's pics). If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint with > a grit mixture can be used. > > Al > > wrote: > > A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > > > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC wrote: > > > > gave > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:17 PM PST US From: "Ed Hanson" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk Bob, I would try mounting the GPS antennas under the glare shield as Galin says. I have a fiberglass glare shield and mine works fine with GPS and ADS-B in. You can always move it to outside later if need be. ----- Original Message ----- From: Galin Hernandez To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:14 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk What says you have to mount the DYNON GPS-2020 on the outside of the fuselage? I have had mine mounted under the glare shield inside the airplane since 2012 with no problem. REMEMBER you are flying inside a big fiberglass radome which is 100% transparent to RF signals. On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Robert Reed wrote: Al, Totally agree with everything you said. I hate the thought of putting something on the wing that disturbs the finish or the air flow. I cringed at the thought that the Dynon GPS 2020 antenna needed to be mounted on the outside of the fuselage rather than on the inside. I spent many hours and years trying to build the perfect airplane with the perfect finish but instead of finishing and flying that airplane I spent too many hours obsessing over things that were more cosmetic than functional. As a result, it has cost me more time and money than I could ever imagine and still it is not near perfect nor will it ever be perfect. My only goal now is to finish the plane and make it as safe as possible. If the white wing walk turns gray from use then I will be happy as hell. Right now, I can't look at the plane without seeing every single flaw but that's because I can't yet enjoy the ability to lift off the ground and fly. I know that in the future others will look at the plane and be critical of the finish on the wings, the various flaws in the paint, or the amateur upholstery work. The lower cowling has already and will continue to get some critical remarks and I will be the first to say I don't like it but it solved a problem at the time. As it turns out, the problem (FADEC) has been discarded at a very high cost and would no longer require the solution but it is done and will remain until long after the first flight. That once would have bothered me and I would have totally redone the entire thing but not now. I am resigned to the fact that finishing and flying is more important than show quality and perfection. Bob Reed PS: I apologize to every builder whom I mentally criticized for some flaw or lack of finish detail that I have seen over the years. I have now walked the mile in your shoes and have the blisters to prove it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: Alfred Rosa To: kisbuilders Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:12 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk A few thoughts: A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection however it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple". The same could be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines. I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape of shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to step. That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size shoe or wore heels? I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of black or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see Galin's pics). If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint with a grit mixture can be used. Al On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Rosa wrote: A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC wrote: > > gave ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:04 PM PST US From: "Ed Hanson" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk Bob, I would try mounting the GPS antennas under the glare shield as Galin says. I have a fiberglass glare shield and mine works fine with GPS and ADS-B in. You can always move it to outside later if need be. ----- Original Message ----- From: Galin Hernandez To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:14 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk What says you have to mount the DYNON GPS-2020 on the outside of the fuselage? I have had mine mounted under the glare shield inside the airplane since 2012 with no problem. REMEMBER you are flying inside a big fiberglass radome which is 100% transparent to RF signals. On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Robert Reed wrote: Al, Totally agree with everything you said. I hate the thought of putting something on the wing that disturbs the finish or the air flow. I cringed at the thought that the Dynon GPS 2020 antenna needed to be mounted on the outside of the fuselage rather than on the inside. I spent many hours and years trying to build the perfect airplane with the perfect finish but instead of finishing and flying that airplane I spent too many hours obsessing over things that were more cosmetic than functional. As a result, it has cost me more time and money than I could ever imagine and still it is not near perfect nor will it ever be perfect. My only goal now is to finish the plane and make it as safe as possible. If the white wing walk turns gray from use then I will be happy as hell. Right now, I can't look at the plane without seeing every single flaw but that's because I can't yet enjoy the ability to lift off the ground and fly. I know that in the future others will look at the plane and be critical of the finish on the wings, the various flaws in the paint, or the amateur upholstery work. The lower cowling has already and will continue to get some critical remarks and I will be the first to say I don't like it but it solved a problem at the time. As it turns out, the problem (FADEC) has been discarded at a very high cost and would no longer require the solution but it is done and will remain until long after the first flight. That once would have bothered me and I would have totally redone the entire thing but not now. I am resigned to the fact that finishing and flying is more important than show quality and perfection. Bob Reed PS: I apologize to every builder whom I mentally criticized for some flaw or lack of finish detail that I have seen over the years. I have now walked the mile in your shoes and have the blisters to prove it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: Alfred Rosa To: kisbuilders Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:12 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk A few thoughts: A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection however it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple". The same could be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines. I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape of shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to step. That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size shoe or wore heels? I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of black or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see Galin's pics). If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint with a grit mixture can be used. Al On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Rosa wrote: A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC wrote: > > gave ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:39:09 PM PST US From: "Ed Hanson" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk Bob, I would try mounting the GPS antennas under the glare shield as Galin says. I have a fiberglass glare shield and mine works fine with GPS and ADS-B in. You can always move it to outside later if need be. ----- Original Message ----- From: Galin Hernandez To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:14 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk What says you have to mount the DYNON GPS-2020 on the outside of the fuselage? I have had mine mounted under the glare shield inside the airplane since 2012 with no problem. REMEMBER you are flying inside a big fiberglass radome which is 100% transparent to RF signals. On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Robert Reed wrote: Al, Totally agree with everything you said. I hate the thought of putting something on the wing that disturbs the finish or the air flow. I cringed at the thought that the Dynon GPS 2020 antenna needed to be mounted on the outside of the fuselage rather than on the inside. I spent many hours and years trying to build the perfect airplane with the perfect finish but instead of finishing and flying that airplane I spent too many hours obsessing over things that were more cosmetic than functional. As a result, it has cost me more time and money than I could ever imagine and still it is not near perfect nor will it ever be perfect. My only goal now is to finish the plane and make it as safe as possible. If the white wing walk turns gray from use then I will be happy as hell. Right now, I can't look at the plane without seeing every single flaw but that's because I can't yet enjoy the ability to lift off the ground and fly. I know that in the future others will look at the plane and be critical of the finish on the wings, the various flaws in the paint, or the amateur upholstery work. The lower cowling has already and will continue to get some critical remarks and I will be the first to say I don't like it but it solved a problem at the time. As it turns out, the problem (FADEC) has been discarded at a very high cost and would no longer require the solution but it is done and will remain until long after the first flight. That once would have bothered me and I would have totally redone the entire thing but not now. I am resigned to the fact that finishing and flying is more important than show quality and perfection. Bob Reed PS: I apologize to every builder whom I mentally criticized for some flaw or lack of finish detail that I have seen over the years. I have now walked the mile in your shoes and have the blisters to prove it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: Alfred Rosa To: kisbuilders Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:12 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk A few thoughts: A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection however it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple". The same could be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines. I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape of shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to step. That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size shoe or wore heels? I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of black or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see Galin's pics). If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint with a grit mixture can be used. Al On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Rosa wrote: A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC wrote: > > gave ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:53 PM PST US From: "Ed Hanson" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk Bob, I would try mounting the GPS antennas under the glare shield as Galin says. I have a fiberglass glare shield and mine works fine with GPS and ADS-B in. You can always move it to outside later if need be. ----- Original Message ----- From: Galin Hernandez To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:14 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk What says you have to mount the DYNON GPS-2020 on the outside of the fuselage? I have had mine mounted under the glare shield inside the airplane since 2012 with no problem. REMEMBER you are flying inside a big fiberglass radome which is 100% transparent to RF signals. On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Robert Reed wrote: Al, Totally agree with everything you said. I hate the thought of putting something on the wing that disturbs the finish or the air flow. I cringed at the thought that the Dynon GPS 2020 antenna needed to be mounted on the outside of the fuselage rather than on the inside. I spent many hours and years trying to build the perfect airplane with the perfect finish but instead of finishing and flying that airplane I spent too many hours obsessing over things that were more cosmetic than functional. As a result, it has cost me more time and money than I could ever imagine and still it is not near perfect nor will it ever be perfect. My only goal now is to finish the plane and make it as safe as possible. If the white wing walk turns gray from use then I will be happy as hell. Right now, I can't look at the plane without seeing every single flaw but that's because I can't yet enjoy the ability to lift off the ground and fly. I know that in the future others will look at the plane and be critical of the finish on the wings, the various flaws in the paint, or the amateur upholstery work. The lower cowling has already and will continue to get some critical remarks and I will be the first to say I don't like it but it solved a problem at the time. As it turns out, the problem (FADEC) has been discarded at a very high cost and would no longer require the solution but it is done and will remain until long after the first flight. That once would have bothered me and I would have totally redone the entire thing but not now. I am resigned to the fact that finishing and flying is more important than show quality and perfection. Bob Reed PS: I apologize to every builder whom I mentally criticized for some flaw or lack of finish detail that I have seen over the years. I have now walked the mile in your shoes and have the blisters to prove it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: Alfred Rosa To: kisbuilders Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:12 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk A few thoughts: A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection however it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple". The same could be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines. I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape of shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to step. That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size shoe or wore heels? I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of black or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see Galin's pics). If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint with a grit mixture can be used. Al On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Rosa wrote: A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC wrote: > > gave ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:44 PM PST US From: "Ed Hanson" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk Bob, I would try mounting the GPS antennas under the glare shield as Galin says. I have a fiberglass glare shield and mine works fine with GPS and ADS-B in. You can always move it to outside later if need be. ----- Original Message ----- From: Galin Hernandez To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:14 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk What says you have to mount the DYNON GPS-2020 on the outside of the fuselage? I have had mine mounted under the glare shield inside the airplane since 2012 with no problem. REMEMBER you are flying inside a big fiberglass radome which is 100% transparent to RF signals. On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Robert Reed wrote: Al, Totally agree with everything you said. I hate the thought of putting something on the wing that disturbs the finish or the air flow. I cringed at the thought that the Dynon GPS 2020 antenna needed to be mounted on the outside of the fuselage rather than on the inside. I spent many hours and years trying to build the perfect airplane with the perfect finish but instead of finishing and flying that airplane I spent too many hours obsessing over things that were more cosmetic than functional. As a result, it has cost me more time and money than I could ever imagine and still it is not near perfect nor will it ever be perfect. My only goal now is to finish the plane and make it as safe as possible. If the white wing walk turns gray from use then I will be happy as hell. Right now, I can't look at the plane without seeing every single flaw but that's because I can't yet enjoy the ability to lift off the ground and fly. I know that in the future others will look at the plane and be critical of the finish on the wings, the various flaws in the paint, or the amateur upholstery work. The lower cowling has already and will continue to get some critical remarks and I will be the first to say I don't like it but it solved a problem at the time. As it turns out, the problem (FADEC) has been discarded at a very high cost and would no longer require the solution but it is done and will remain until long after the first flight. That once would have bothered me and I would have totally redone the entire thing but not now. I am resigned to the fact that finishing and flying is more important than show quality and perfection. Bob Reed PS: I apologize to every builder whom I mentally criticized for some flaw or lack of finish detail that I have seen over the years. I have now walked the mile in your shoes and have the blisters to prove it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: Alfred Rosa To: kisbuilders Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:12 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Wing walk A few thoughts: A removable mat like a pilates mat is very light and good protection however it makes for another step so is not "keeping it simple". The same could be said for removable screw eyes for tie down lines. I saw a Lancair once that had the wing walk material cut into the shape of shoe prints and placed in specific spots where a person would have to step. That seemed anal to me and what if the person had a different size shoe or wore heels? I would use a 16" wing walk material that's battleship gray instead of black or white since black overheats and white gets grayish shoe marks (see Galin's pics). If they don't make it in wing walk material then paint with a grit mixture can be used. Al On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:19 AM, Alfred Rosa wrote: A younger wife is the answer to many problems. > On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:49 AM, OC wrote: > > gave ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.