Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:12 AM - Re: Trim Control Selection & Indication (Bill Schertz)
2. 06:05 AM - Re: Trim Control Selection & Indication (M Ketteing)
3. 06:15 AM - Re: Re: Info on KIS TR1 (John Forster)
4. 06:56 AM - Re: Trim Control Selection & Indication (Robert Reed)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Trim Control Selection & Indication |
Galin, nice work
I don=99t have trim on the co-pilot stick, but in addition to the
trim on pilot stick I put rocker switches on the center console that
could be reached by either pilot or co-pilot.
After the fly off, I took my instructor for a ride, and after take off,
I started to trim the plane, and found that it kept going to a trim-up
condition. I fought it for a while (learned that I could still control
the plane even with =98runaway trim=99) , said that we might
have to return . Looking down, I found that his very bulky wallet in a
side pocket was resting on the trim switch,
A shift took care of the issue, and I check my passengers now.
Bill
From: Galin Hernandez
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 7:32 PM
Subject: KIS-List: Trim Control Selection & Indication
Back in 2012 when I designed my all glass instrument panel, I thought I
had covered every possible situation you could encounter while flying. I
was proven wrong when I did my first flight with my wife. As we flew
along she rested her hand on the co-pilot joystick, and since both
joysticks have trim control, she accidentally changed the way the
airplane was trimmed. Since I fly actual IMC, this was not part of an
acceptable design to me. So I re-wired the trim circuit and installed a
trim selector switch. This way the trim can only be controlled by the
pilot flying while the other trim is inactive. This setup worked to
perfection, until last month.
I was flying with a pilot friend who wanted to do some practice
approaches. He flew the airplane for about 1hr then it was my turn to do
some approaches. But no matter how hard I tried I was fighting the
airplane and could not keep it where I wanted. After about 1/2hr I
realized the trim switch was still set to co-pilot so no matter how much
I moved the trim, nothing was happening. As soon as I turned the switch
to pilot, I could properly trim the airplane and everything fell in to
place. I realized that unless I was looking down at the selector switch
I couldn=99t tell who had control of the trim. The last thing I
want to do while flying actual IMC is to be looking down to check the
trim selector switch position. Again this was not part of an acceptable
design to me. So I went back to the drawing board to come up with an
acceptable solution. Here is a link to a .pdf file that details my
"solution"
http://puertoricoflyer.com/Files/Trim%20Indicator%20Installation.pdf
Virus-free. www.avg.com
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Trim Control Selection & Indication |
I am a big fan of simple mechanical trim for safety. On my DA40 I can fly the
aircraft with failure on any one control axis. For example if the aileron linkage
fails I can use rudder. If the elevator linkage fails I can use the mechanical
elevator trim for pitch. I have done this for practice all the way to
the ground. Actually it was hands off the stick from 5 miles out so just rudder
and trim. I really don't think this can be done with electric pitch trim.
Mark Kettering
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 2/5/18, Bill Schertz <wschertz343@gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Trim Control Selection & Indication
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Date: Monday, February 5, 2018, 8:00 AM
Galin, nice work
I dont have trim on the co-pilot stick, but in
addition to the trim on
pilot stick I put rocker switches on the center console that
could be reached by
either pilot or co-pilot.
After the fly off, I took my instructor for a ride, and
after take off, I
started to trim the plane, and found that it kept going to a
trim-up condition.
I fought it for a while (learned that I could still control
the plane even with
runaway trim) , said that we might have to return .
Looking down, I
found that his very bulky wallet in a side pocket was
resting on the trim
switch,
A shift took care of the issue, and I check my
passengers now.
Bill
From: Galin
Hernandez
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 7:32 PM
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Subject: KIS-List: Trim Control Selection &
Indication
Back
in 2012 when I designed my all glass instrument panel, I
thought I had covered
every possible situation you could encounter while flying. I
was proven wrong
when I did my first flight with my wife. As we flew along
she rested her hand on
the co-pilot joystick, and since both joysticks have trim
control, she
accidentally changed the way the airplane was trimmed. Since
I fly actual IMC,
this was not part of an acceptable design to me. So I
re-wired the trim circuit
and installed a trim selector switch. This way the
trim can only be controlled by the pilot flying while the
other trim is
inactive. This setup worked to perfection, until last
month.
I
was flying with a pilot friend who wanted to do some
practice approaches. He
flew the airplane for about 1hr then it was my turn to do
some approaches. But
no matter how hard I tried I was fighting the airplane and
could not keep it
where I wanted. After about 1/2hr I realized the trim switch
was still set to
co-pilot so no matter how much I moved the trim, nothing was
happening. As soon
as I turned the switch to pilot, I could properly trim the
airplane and
everything fell in to place. I realized that unless I was
looking down at the
selector switch I couldnt tell who had control of the
trim. The last thing I
want to do while flying actual IMC is to be looking down to
check the trim
selector switch position. Again this was not
part of an
acceptable design to me. So I went back to the drawing board
to come up with an
acceptable solution. Here is a
link to a .pdf file
that details my "solution"
http://puertoricoflyer.com/Files/Trim%20Indicator%20Installation.pdf
Virus-free.
www.avg.com
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Info on KIS TR1 |
I have a TR4 project looking for a new home. Let me know if you are interested.
John Forster
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darrin
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2018 8:07 AM
Subject: KIS-List: Re: Info on KIS TR1
Hello everyone!
Would anyone happen to have any current information on any TR1 or TR4 airplanes
for sale? Thanks!
Blue Skies!
Darrin
--------
Blue Skies!
Darrin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477763#477763
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Trim Control Selection & Indication |
You two are making me glad that I went with the center stick that can be sh
ared (one at a time) by the pilot or copilot and that I placed the trim on
both the stick and at the top of the center console out of harms way.NOW, i
f I could only get the time to finish the darn thing.=C2- Life continues
to get in the way.=C2- Now it's designing my retirement home and trying t
o get the construction started.=C2- Maybe, just maybe, in another 84 days
when I finally retire I might be able to find some time to finish.=C2- O
ne can only hope and dream.Bob Reed
PS:=C2- Been spending my evenings working on several years worth of updat
es to my web site since I plan on presenting it as my construction log. =C2
-
From: Bill Schertz <wschertz343@gmail.com>
To: kis-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 7:12 AM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Trim Control Selection & Indication
Galin, nice work=C2-I don=99t have trim on the co-pilot stick, but
in addition to the trim on pilot stick I put rocker switches on the center
console that could be reached by either pilot or co-pilot.=C2-After the f
ly off, I took my instructor for a ride, and after take off, I started to t
rim the plane, and found that it kept going to a trim-up condition. I fough
t it for a while (learned that I could still control the plane even with
=98runaway trim=99) , said that we might have to return .=C2-
Looking down, I found that his very bulky wallet in a side pocket was rest
ing on the trim switch,=C2-A shift took care of the issue, and I check my
passengers now.Bill From: Galin Hernandez Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018
7:32 PMTo: kis-list@matronics.com Subject: KIS-List: Trim Control Selection
& Indication=C2-Back in 2012 when I designed my all glass instrument pan
el, I thought I had covered every possible situation you could encounter wh
ile flying. I was proven wrong when I did my first flight with my wife. As
we flew along she rested her hand on the co-pilot joystick, and since both
joysticks have trim control, she accidentally changed the way the airplane
was trimmed. Since I fly actual IMC, this was not part of an acceptable des
ign to me. So I re-wired the trim circuit and installed a trim selector swi
tch. This way the trim can only be controlled by the pilot flying while the
other trim is inactive. This setup worked to perfection, until last month.
=C2-I was flying with a pilot friend who wanted to do some practice appro
aches. He flew the airplane for about 1hr then it was my turn to do some ap
proaches. But no matter how hard I tried I was fighting the airplane and co
uld not keep it where I wanted. After about 1/2hr I realized the trim switc
h was still set to co-pilot so no matter how much I moved the trim, nothing
was happening. As soon as I turned the switch to pilot, I could properly t
rim the airplane and everything fell in to place. I realized that unless I
was looking down at the selector switch I couldn=99t tell who had con
trol of the trim. The last thing I want to do while flying actual IMC is to
be looking down to check the trim selector switch position.=C2- Again th
is was not part of an acceptable design to me. So I went back to the drawin
g board to come up with an acceptable solution. Here is a link to a .pdf fi
le that details my "solution"=C2-http://puertoricoflyer.com/Files/Trim%20
Indicator%20Installation.pdf
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