---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/05/18: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:12 AM - Re: Trim Control Selection & Indication (Bill Schertz) 2. 06:05 AM - Re: Trim Control Selection & Indication (M Ketteing) 3. 06:15 AM - Re: Re: Info on KIS TR1 (John Forster) 4. 06:56 AM - Re: Trim Control Selection & Indication (Robert Reed) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:16 AM PST US From: "Bill Schertz" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Trim Control Selection & Indication Galin, nice work I don=99t have trim on the co-pilot stick, but in addition to the trim on pilot stick I put rocker switches on the center console that could be reached by either pilot or co-pilot. After the fly off, I took my instructor for a ride, and after take off, I started to trim the plane, and found that it kept going to a trim-up condition. I fought it for a while (learned that I could still control the plane even with =98runaway trim=99) , said that we might have to return . Looking down, I found that his very bulky wallet in a side pocket was resting on the trim switch, A shift took care of the issue, and I check my passengers now. Bill From: Galin Hernandez Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 7:32 PM Subject: KIS-List: Trim Control Selection & Indication Back in 2012 when I designed my all glass instrument panel, I thought I had covered every possible situation you could encounter while flying. I was proven wrong when I did my first flight with my wife. As we flew along she rested her hand on the co-pilot joystick, and since both joysticks have trim control, she accidentally changed the way the airplane was trimmed. Since I fly actual IMC, this was not part of an acceptable design to me. So I re-wired the trim circuit and installed a trim selector switch. This way the trim can only be controlled by the pilot flying while the other trim is inactive. This setup worked to perfection, until last month. I was flying with a pilot friend who wanted to do some practice approaches. He flew the airplane for about 1hr then it was my turn to do some approaches. But no matter how hard I tried I was fighting the airplane and could not keep it where I wanted. After about 1/2hr I realized the trim switch was still set to co-pilot so no matter how much I moved the trim, nothing was happening. As soon as I turned the switch to pilot, I could properly trim the airplane and everything fell in to place. I realized that unless I was looking down at the selector switch I couldn=99t tell who had control of the trim. The last thing I want to do while flying actual IMC is to be looking down to check the trim selector switch position. Again this was not part of an acceptable design to me. So I went back to the drawing board to come up with an acceptable solution. Here is a link to a .pdf file that details my "solution" http://puertoricoflyer.com/Files/Trim%20Indicator%20Installation.pdf Virus-free. www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:08 AM PST US From: M Ketteing Subject: Re: KIS-List: Trim Control Selection & Indication I am a big fan of simple mechanical trim for safety. On my DA40 I can fly the aircraft with failure on any one control axis. For example if the aileron linkage fails I can use rudder. If the elevator linkage fails I can use the mechanical elevator trim for pitch. I have done this for practice all the way to the ground. Actually it was hands off the stick from 5 miles out so just rudder and trim. I really don't think this can be done with electric pitch trim. Mark Kettering -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 2/5/18, Bill Schertz wrote: Subject: Re: KIS-List: Trim Control Selection & Indication To: kis-list@matronics.com Date: Monday, February 5, 2018, 8:00 AM Galin, nice work I dont have trim on the co-pilot stick, but in addition to the trim on pilot stick I put rocker switches on the center console that could be reached by either pilot or co-pilot. After the fly off, I took my instructor for a ride, and after take off, I started to trim the plane, and found that it kept going to a trim-up condition. I fought it for a while (learned that I could still control the plane even with runaway trim) , said that we might have to return . Looking down, I found that his very bulky wallet in a side pocket was resting on the trim switch, A shift took care of the issue, and I check my passengers now. Bill From: Galin Hernandez Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 7:32 PM To: kis-list@matronics.com Subject: KIS-List: Trim Control Selection & Indication Back in 2012 when I designed my all glass instrument panel, I thought I had covered every possible situation you could encounter while flying. I was proven wrong when I did my first flight with my wife. As we flew along she rested her hand on the co-pilot joystick, and since both joysticks have trim control, she accidentally changed the way the airplane was trimmed. Since I fly actual IMC, this was not part of an acceptable design to me. So I re-wired the trim circuit and installed a trim selector switch. This way the trim can only be controlled by the pilot flying while the other trim is inactive. This setup worked to perfection, until last month. I was flying with a pilot friend who wanted to do some practice approaches. He flew the airplane for about 1hr then it was my turn to do some approaches. But no matter how hard I tried I was fighting the airplane and could not keep it where I wanted. After about 1/2hr I realized the trim switch was still set to co-pilot so no matter how much I moved the trim, nothing was happening. As soon as I turned the switch to pilot, I could properly trim the airplane and everything fell in to place. I realized that unless I was looking down at the selector switch I couldnt tell who had control of the trim. The last thing I want to do while flying actual IMC is to be looking down to check the trim selector switch position. Again this was not part of an acceptable design to me. So I went back to the drawing board to come up with an acceptable solution. Here is a link to a .pdf file that details my "solution" http://puertoricoflyer.com/Files/Trim%20Indicator%20Installation.pdf Virus-free. www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:13 AM PST US From: John Forster Subject: RE: KIS-List: Re: Info on KIS TR1 I have a TR4 project looking for a new home. Let me know if you are interested. John Forster -----Original Message----- From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darrin Sent: Friday, February 02, 2018 8:07 AM Subject: KIS-List: Re: Info on KIS TR1 Hello everyone! Would anyone happen to have any current information on any TR1 or TR4 airplanes for sale? Thanks! Blue Skies! Darrin -------- Blue Skies! Darrin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477763#477763 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:32 AM PST US From: Robert Reed Subject: Re: KIS-List: Trim Control Selection & Indication You two are making me glad that I went with the center stick that can be sh ared (one at a time) by the pilot or copilot and that I placed the trim on both the stick and at the top of the center console out of harms way.NOW, i f I could only get the time to finish the darn thing.=C2- Life continues to get in the way.=C2- Now it's designing my retirement home and trying t o get the construction started.=C2- Maybe, just maybe, in another 84 days when I finally retire I might be able to find some time to finish.=C2- O ne can only hope and dream.Bob Reed PS:=C2- Been spending my evenings working on several years worth of updat es to my web site since I plan on presenting it as my construction log. =C2 - From: Bill Schertz To: kis-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 7:12 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: Trim Control Selection & Indication Galin, nice work=C2-I don=99t have trim on the co-pilot stick, but in addition to the trim on pilot stick I put rocker switches on the center console that could be reached by either pilot or co-pilot.=C2-After the f ly off, I took my instructor for a ride, and after take off, I started to t rim the plane, and found that it kept going to a trim-up condition. I fough t it for a while (learned that I could still control the plane even with =98runaway trim=99) , said that we might have to return .=C2- Looking down, I found that his very bulky wallet in a side pocket was rest ing on the trim switch,=C2-A shift took care of the issue, and I check my passengers now.Bill From: Galin Hernandez Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 7:32 PMTo: kis-list@matronics.com Subject: KIS-List: Trim Control Selection & Indication=C2-Back in 2012 when I designed my all glass instrument pan el, I thought I had covered every possible situation you could encounter wh ile flying. I was proven wrong when I did my first flight with my wife. As we flew along she rested her hand on the co-pilot joystick, and since both joysticks have trim control, she accidentally changed the way the airplane was trimmed. Since I fly actual IMC, this was not part of an acceptable des ign to me. So I re-wired the trim circuit and installed a trim selector swi tch. This way the trim can only be controlled by the pilot flying while the other trim is inactive. This setup worked to perfection, until last month. =C2-I was flying with a pilot friend who wanted to do some practice appro aches. He flew the airplane for about 1hr then it was my turn to do some ap proaches. But no matter how hard I tried I was fighting the airplane and co uld not keep it where I wanted. After about 1/2hr I realized the trim switc h was still set to co-pilot so no matter how much I moved the trim, nothing was happening. As soon as I turned the switch to pilot, I could properly t rim the airplane and everything fell in to place. I realized that unless I was looking down at the selector switch I couldn=99t tell who had con trol of the trim. The last thing I want to do while flying actual IMC is to be looking down to check the trim selector switch position.=C2- Again th is was not part of an acceptable design to me. So I went back to the drawin g board to come up with an acceptable solution. Here is a link to a .pdf fi le that details my "solution"=C2-http://puertoricoflyer.com/Files/Trim%20 Indicator%20Installation.pdf | | Virus-free. www.avg.com | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.