---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/06/19: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:52 AM - Re: New (to me) LED Landing Lights (Ed Hanson) 2. 01:57 AM - Re: New (to me) LED Landing Lights (Ed Hanson) 3. 03:01 AM - Re: New (to me) LED Landing Lights (Ed Hanson) 4. 04:05 AM - Re: New (to me) LED Landing Lights (Ed Hanson) 5. 05:38 AM - Re: New (to me) LED Landing Lights (Galin Hernandez) 6. 05:57 AM - Weights for KIS Cruiser 4-place (Robert Reed) 7. 02:11 PM - Re: Weights for KIS Cruiser 4-place (Matthew Kuriger) 8. 03:08 PM - Re: Weights for KIS Cruiser 4-place (Bill Schertz) 9. 05:35 PM - Re: Weights for KIS Cruiser 4-place (Galin Hernandez) 10. 07:13 PM - Re: Weights for KIS Cruiser 4-place (Ed Hanson) 11. 07:17 PM - Re: Weights for KIS Cruiser 4-place (Ed Hanson) 12. 07:27 PM - Re: Weights for KIS Cruiser 4-place (Ed Hanson) 13. 07:47 PM - Re: Weights for KIS Cruiser 4-place (Ed Hanson) 14. 08:27 PM - Re: Weights for KIS Cruiser 4-place (Ed Hanson) 15. 08:36 PM - Re: Weights for KIS Cruiser 4-place () 16. 09:32 PM - Re: Weights for KIS Cruiser 4-place (Ed Hanson) 17. 10:36 PM - Re: Weights for KIS Cruiser 4-place (Ed Hanson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:52:24 AM PST US From: Ed Hanson Subject: RE: KIS-List: New (to me) LED Landing Lights Galin, did you get the spots or the combo units. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Galin Hernandez Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 11:18 PM Subject: KIS-List: New (to me) LED Landing Lights In 2011 I replaced my two Halogen landing lights with two Aerosun 800 (only the 1600's are currently produced). They put out a lot more light and use significantly less current than Halogen. A few weeks ago a friend of mine i nstalled a pair of BajaDesign Squadron Pro lights and I saw how much more l ight they put out for about the same current draw. Unfortunately, they are just a bit too big to install in the leading edge of my airplane wing, so I ordered a pair of their smaller S2 Pro Lights and installed them. Even tho ugh the Aerosun 800's are brighter than my old Halogens, the S2 Pro's are s o much brighter. I have attached pictures so you can see the difference bet ween them.=C2- Neither of the two generate any RF interference in my fiberglass airplane w hich was a big concern for me. The Aerosun 800 have a built in wig-wag circ uit where the S2 Pro does not. In order to get them to wig-wag I will insta ll a Crazed Pilot wig-wag unit which was highly recommended for this applic ation. So if you are looking to install some awesome LED landing lights in one of our airplanes, I highly recommend either of these. https://aeroleds.com/products/aerosun/ https://www.bajadesigns.com/products/S2-Pro.asp https://www.crazedpilot.com/led-strobe-wig-wag-and-landing-light-controller / ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:57:58 AM PST US From: Ed Hanson Subject: RE: KIS-List: New (to me) LED Landing Lights Galin, did you get the spots or the combo units. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Galin Hernandez Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 11:18 PM Subject: KIS-List: New (to me) LED Landing Lights In 2011 I replaced my two Halogen landing lights with two Aerosun 800 (only the 1600's are currently produced). They put out a lot more light and use significantly less current than Halogen. A few weeks ago a friend of mine i nstalled a pair of BajaDesign Squadron Pro lights and I saw how much more l ight they put out for about the same current draw. Unfortunately, they are just a bit too big to install in the leading edge of my airplane wing, so I ordered a pair of their smaller S2 Pro Lights and installed them. Even tho ugh the Aerosun 800's are brighter than my old Halogens, the S2 Pro's are s o much brighter. I have attached pictures so you can see the difference bet ween them.=C2- Neither of the two generate any RF interference in my fiberglass airplane w hich was a big concern for me. The Aerosun 800 have a built in wig-wag circ uit where the S2 Pro does not. In order to get them to wig-wag I will insta ll a Crazed Pilot wig-wag unit which was highly recommended for this applic ation. So if you are looking to install some awesome LED landing lights in one of our airplanes, I highly recommend either of these. https://aeroleds.com/products/aerosun/ https://www.bajadesigns.com/products/S2-Pro.asp https://www.crazedpilot.com/led-strobe-wig-wag-and-landing-light-controller / ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:01:02 AM PST US From: Ed Hanson Subject: RE: KIS-List: New (to me) LED Landing Lights Galin, did you get the spots or the combo units. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Galin Hernandez Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 11:18 PM Subject: KIS-List: New (to me) LED Landing Lights In 2011 I replaced my two Halogen landing lights with two Aerosun 800 (only the 1600's are currently produced). They put out a lot more light and use significantly less current than Halogen. A few weeks ago a friend of mine i nstalled a pair of BajaDesign Squadron Pro lights and I saw how much more l ight they put out for about the same current draw. Unfortunately, they are just a bit too big to install in the leading edge of my airplane wing, so I ordered a pair of their smaller S2 Pro Lights and installed them. Even tho ugh the Aerosun 800's are brighter than my old Halogens, the S2 Pro's are s o much brighter. I have attached pictures so you can see the difference bet ween them.=C2- Neither of the two generate any RF interference in my fiberglass airplane w hich was a big concern for me. The Aerosun 800 have a built in wig-wag circ uit where the S2 Pro does not. In order to get them to wig-wag I will insta ll a Crazed Pilot wig-wag unit which was highly recommended for this applic ation. So if you are looking to install some awesome LED landing lights in one of our airplanes, I highly recommend either of these. https://aeroleds.com/products/aerosun/ https://www.bajadesigns.com/products/S2-Pro.asp https://www.crazedpilot.com/led-strobe-wig-wag-and-landing-light-controller / ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:05:23 AM PST US From: Ed Hanson Subject: RE: KIS-List: New (to me) LED Landing Lights Galin, did you get the spots or the combo units. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Galin Hernandez Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 11:18 PM Subject: KIS-List: New (to me) LED Landing Lights In 2011 I replaced my two Halogen landing lights with two Aerosun 800 (only the 1600's are currently produced). They put out a lot more light and use significantly less current than Halogen. A few weeks ago a friend of mine i nstalled a pair of BajaDesign Squadron Pro lights and I saw how much more l ight they put out for about the same current draw. Unfortunately, they are just a bit too big to install in the leading edge of my airplane wing, so I ordered a pair of their smaller S2 Pro Lights and installed them. Even tho ugh the Aerosun 800's are brighter than my old Halogens, the S2 Pro's are s o much brighter. I have attached pictures so you can see the difference bet ween them.=C2- Neither of the two generate any RF interference in my fiberglass airplane w hich was a big concern for me. The Aerosun 800 have a built in wig-wag circ uit where the S2 Pro does not. In order to get them to wig-wag I will insta ll a Crazed Pilot wig-wag unit which was highly recommended for this applic ation. So if you are looking to install some awesome LED landing lights in one of our airplanes, I highly recommend either of these. https://aeroleds.com/products/aerosun/ https://www.bajadesigns.com/products/S2-Pro.asp https://www.crazedpilot.com/led-strobe-wig-wag-and-landing-light-controller / ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:30 AM PST US From: Galin Hernandez Subject: Re: KIS-List: New (to me) LED Landing Lights I got the spot units. On approach you can see the runway significantly higher. They have enough "bleed over" to make taxiing with them a complete non issue. Besides, we approach to land at about 80Kts while we taxi at less than 15Kts. On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 10:24 PM Ed Hanson wrote: > Galin, did you get the spots or the combo units. > > > Sent from Mail for > Windows 10 > > > *From: *Galin Hernandez > *Sent: *Thursday, January 3, 2019 11:18 PM > *To: *kis-list@matronics.com > *Subject: *KIS-List: New (to me) LED Landing Lights > > > In 2011 I replaced my two Halogen landing lights with two Aerosun 800 > (only the 1600's are currently produced). They put out a lot more light and > use significantly less current than Halogen. A few weeks ago a friend of > mine installed a pair of BajaDesign Squadron Pro lights and I saw how much > more light they put out for about the same current draw. Unfortunately, > they are just a bit too big to install in the leading edge of my airplane > wing, so I ordered a pair of their smaller S2 Pro Lights and installed > them. Even though the Aerosun 800's are brighter than my old Halogens, the > S2 Pro's are so much brighter. I have attached pictures so you can see the > difference between them. > > > Neither of the two generate any RF interference in my fiberglass airplane > which was a big concern for me. The Aerosun 800 have a built in wig-wag > circuit where the S2 Pro does not. In order to get them to wig-wag I will > install a Crazed Pilot wig-wag unit which was highly recommended for this > application. > > > So if you are looking to install some awesome LED landing lights in one of > our airplanes, I highly recommend either of these. > > > https://aeroleds.com/products/aerosun/ > > https://www.bajadesigns.com/products/S2-Pro.asp > > > https://www.crazedpilot.com/led-strobe-wig-wag-and-landing-light-controller/ > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:41 AM PST US From: Robert Reed Subject: KIS-List: Weights for KIS Cruiser 4-place All I did my weight yesterday and I am heavy. I expected to be a little heavier than the prototype but not 300+ lbs. I can account for some of that with the dual alternator dual battery electrical system and my heavy interior. Could some of you 4-place builders give me your empty and gross weights for comparison. Also any comments on handling at near gross. Bob Reed Sent from my iPhone ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:11:11 PM PST US From: Matthew Kuriger Subject: Re: KIS-List: Weights for KIS Cruiser 4-place Hi Bob Our KIS TR-4 (ZK-TEL) has an empty weight of 1553 pounds with Continental IO-360 and MT constant speed propeller. The rest of the aircraft is pretty standard as per plans, but has been well equipped in terms of leather upholstery/carpets and steam gauges/vacuum system. It has a simple electrical system (single battery/alternator). We're currently replacing the existing battery with an EarthX ETX900 battery to reduce weight and move CoG rearward as the battery is on the firewall. This will shed approx 20 pounds from the empty weight making it 1533 lbs. Aircraft MAUW is 2,500 lbs. Having completed a type rating for the aircraft recently at different weights (including MAUW), I find the handling great at all weights. However I can only compare against Cessnas (e.g. 172) that I have been accustomed too..... I found the biggest difference is on approach/landing, when one needs to keep the speed up with some power (right up to the flare) to avoid high sink rates, particularly at the higher weights. I have been using final approach speed of 85 knots, 75 across threshold, with touchdown speeds of 70 knots works well at heavier weights. We have only been using 1st notch of flaps on landing (10 degrees), mainly due to high flap handle loads for 2nd notch. Also, our aircraft has a listed clean stalling speed at MAUW (Vs) of 61 knots, and a stalling speed landing config at MAUW (Vso) of 56 knots. We have not checked the accuracy / calibration of our airspeed system yet at lower speeds. Matt Kuriger > On 7/01/2019, at 2:54 AM, Robert Reed wrote: > > > All > > I did my weight yesterday and I am heavy. I expected to be a little heavier than the prototype but not 300+ lbs. I can account for some of that with the dual alternator dual battery electrical system and my heavy interior. > > Could some of you 4-place builders give me your empty and gross weights for comparison. Also any comments on handling at near gross. > > Bob Reed > Sent from my iPhone > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:08:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: KIS-List: Weights for KIS Cruiser 4-place From: Bill Schertz Bob Empty wt 1436 Can't send wt &bal spreadsheet since my computer is it working with email now. Tested to 2450 , and flew fine Bill Sent from my iPad On Jan 6, 2019, at 7:54 AM, Robert Reed wrote: > > All > > I did my weight yesterday and I am heavy. I expected to be a little heavier than the prototype but not 300+ lbs. I can account for some of that with the dual alternator dual battery electrical system and my heavy interior. > > Could some of you 4-place builders give me your empty and gross weights for comparison. Also any comments on handling at near gross. > > Bob Reed > Sent from my iPhone > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:56 PM PST US From: Galin Hernandez Subject: Re: KIS-List: Weights for KIS Cruiser 4-place My BEW is 1,393lbs. A Lycoming O360-A4M with a CATTO 3bladed composite propeller and everything else basically as per original plans. With Rich we tested it at 2,500lbs but just for takeoff not landing. The max we landed was at 2,400lbs. The airplane handled just fine at these weights. At 2,500lbs it climbed and maneuvered like a C-172 with a 180Hp engine. FWIW I use a max takeoff weight of 2,500lbs but normally takeoff at about 2,300lbs. But even if I takeoff at 2,500lbs, I use a max landing weight of 2,300lbs. For landing speeds I find that the airplane really likes approaching at 85Kts (1 notch of flaps), slowing down to 75Kts (full flaps) on short final then pulling the nose up slightly and touching down at 65Kts. Not that much different from what Matt Kuriger uses. At significantly lower weights, I use 80Kts, 70Kts and 60Kts for the speeds. With the CATTO propeller, unless I do something dumb (which is not very uncommon) the landings are as smooth as a C-172. YMMV On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 6:08 PM Bill Schertz wrote: > > Bob > Empty wt 1436 > Can't send wt &bal spreadsheet since my computer is it working with email > now. > Tested to 2450 , and flew fine > Bill > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jan 6, 2019, at 7:54 AM, Robert Reed wrote: > > > > > All > > > > I did my weight yesterday and I am heavy. I expected to be a little > heavier than the prototype but not 300+ lbs. I can account for some of > that with the dual alternator dual battery electrical system and my heavy > interior. > > > > Could some of you 4-place builders give me your empty and gross weights > for comparison. Also any comments on handling at near gross. > > > > Bob Reed > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:20 PM PST US From: Ed Hanson Subject: RE: KIS-List: Weights for KIS Cruiser 4-place SGkgQm9iLCBnbGFkIHRvIGhlYXIgeW91IGFyZSBnZXR0aW5nIGNsb3NlIHRvIGZseWluZy4gTGlr ZSBtYW55IG9mIHRoZSBvdGhlciByZXNwb25zZXMgbXkgQ3J1aXNlciBoYXMgYSBoaWdoZXIgZW1w dHkgd2VpZ2h0IHRoYW4gcGxhbnMuIFRoZSBwcmljZSB3ZSBwYXkgZm9yIGFkZGluZyB0aGluZ3Mu IE15IGVtcHR5IHdlaWdodCBpcyAxLDQ5MyBsYnMuIExNIDU2NSwgUk0gNTU4LCBhbmQgbm9zZSAz NzAuIENHIDQwLjgw4oCdLg0KSSBsaXN0ZWQgbXkgZ3Jvc3Mgd2VpZ2h0IGFzIDI1MDAgbGJzLiBJ IHRlc3RlZCBpdCB0byBhIG1heGltdW0gd2VpZ2h0IG9mIDI1MDUgaW5jbHVkaW5nIGxhbmRpbmcu IE1hcmsgSyBoYXMgc3VnZ2VzdGVkIHVzaW5nIGhpZ2hlciBncm9zcyB3ZWlnaHRzIHRoYW4gUmlj aCBzcGVjaWZpZWQuIA0KSXQgaGFuZGxlZCBmaW5lIGJ1dCBJIGtuZXcgSSB3YXMgZmx5aW5nIGEg aGVhdnkgcGxhbmUgYW5kIGZsZXcgYWNjb3JkaW5nbHkuIEl0IHNob3VsZCBiZSBub3RlZCBJIGRp 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59.00 Total 1,556.50 My weights are also much higher than spec. I knew I was building heavy but it was a lot more than I expected. That explains where all the extra gallons of resin and yds of cloth that I got went. I know where 150 lbs are but I'm not sure I'm prepared for the effort to remove it. Robert, could you please give us a breakdown of how much of your weight is on the nose wheel and how much on the mains Good luck Mike ---Original Message----- From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of Robert Reed Sent: January 6, 2019 5:54 AM Subject: KIS-List: Weights for KIS Cruiser 4-place All I did my weight yesterday and I am heavy. I expected to be a little heavier than the prototype but not 300+ lbs. I can account for some of that with the dual alternator dual battery electrical system and my heavy interior. Could some of you 4-place builders give me your empty and gross weights for comparison. Also any comments on handling at near gross. Bob Reed Sent from my iPhone --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:27 PM PST US From: Ed Hanson Subject: RE: KIS-List: Weights for KIS Cruiser 4-place SGkgQm9iLCBnbGFkIHRvIGhlYXIgeW91IGFyZSBnZXR0aW5nIGNsb3NlIHRvIGZseWluZy4gTGlr ZSBtYW55IG9mIHRoZSBvdGhlciByZXNwb25zZXMgbXkgQ3J1aXNlciBoYXMgYSBoaWdoZXIgZW1w dHkgd2VpZ2h0IHRoYW4gcGxhbnMuIFRoZSBwcmljZSB3ZSBwYXkgZm9yIGFkZGluZyB0aGluZ3Mu IE15IGVtcHR5IHdlaWdodCBpcyAxLDQ5MyBsYnMuIExNIDU2NSwgUk0gNTU4LCBhbmQgbm9zZSAz NzAuIENHIDQwLjgw4oCdLg0KSSBsaXN0ZWQgbXkgZ3Jvc3Mgd2VpZ2h0IGFzIDI1MDAgbGJzLiBJ IHRlc3RlZCBpdCB0byBhIG1heGltdW0gd2VpZ2h0IG9mIDI1MDUgaW5jbHVkaW5nIGxhbmRpbmcu IE1hcmsgSyBoYXMgc3VnZ2VzdGVkIHVzaW5nIGhpZ2hlciBncm9zcyB3ZWlnaHRzIHRoYW4gUmlj aCBzcGVjaWZpZWQuIA0KSXQgaGFuZGxlZCBmaW5lIGJ1dCBJIGtuZXcgSSB3YXMgZmx5aW5nIGEg 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