---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 05/14/20: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:01 AM - Re: KIS4 N343BS For Sale (Robert Reed) 2. 06:36 AM - Re: KIS4 N343BS For Sale (M Ketteing) 3. 07:02 AM - Re: KIS4 N343BS For Sale (William Schertz) 4. 07:20 AM - Re: KIS4 N343BS For Sale (Robert Reed) 5. 09:30 AM - Re: KIS4 N343BS For Sale (William Schertz) 6. 06:58 PM - Re: KIS4 N343BS For Sale (Robert Reed) 7. 08:31 PM - Re: KIS4 N343BS For Sale () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:12 AM PST US From: Robert Reed Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS4 N343BS For Sale Bill, my drawback comment was only directed at the salability aspect and not the fly ability or quality of your build. Bob Reed Sent from my iPhone > On May 13, 2020, at 10:52 PM, William Schertz wrot e: > > =EF=BB > Actually the operating experience with most of the people that have put Ma zda Rotary Engines in planes has been quite good. This failure that required a rebuild was unusual, but things do happen. > > That said, You could literally unbolt the engine mount and the mounting lo cations used for this installation are the same as for a Lycoming. > > It is less salable with a rotary than with a Lycoming, but it was a challe nge and fun to make it work and build the plane and installation. > Bill Schertz > >> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 9:34 PM Robert Reed wrote: >> The Mazda engine is a drawback but at the price it would still be a good d eal for an engine swap with say a Superior IO-360. >> >> Bob Reed >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>> On May 13, 2020, at 9:59 PM, Randy Ott wrote: >>>> >>> =EF=BBThat is going to be a hard sell. Mazda engine..... who is goi ng to work on it! >>> Original owner ...No. >>> New owner ..... No. >>> Auto mechanic ...... on aircraft? They will run faster than the plane f lys. >>> A&P Aircraft mechanic .....No >>> Who is going to do the annual conditional inspections......No one! >>> Its a pretty bird ...... but I don=99t think it is manageable. >>> Hate to be a downer.... but with that engine and reduction drive and ove rhaul after a hundred hours cries out WARNING WILL ROBINSON! >>> Would not touch this with a 599 ft pole. >>> Randy >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>>> On May 13, 2020, at 9:35 AM, Robert Reed wrote: >>>>> >>>> =EF=BB >>>> Just as an FYI, this was the plane originally built by Bill Schertz and is a very beautiful build. Check it out. Very attractive price. >>>> >>>> Bob Reed >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, May 13, 2020, 10:51:52 AM CDT, Galin Hernandez wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> I was sent this For Sale ad (N343BS). >>>> >>>> https://kansascity.craigslist.org/avo/d/butler-kis-cruiser-tr-4/7090151 098.html ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:03 AM PST US From: M Ketteing Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS4 N343BS For Sale While I am not a fan of the Wankel engine for a few reasons including ther modynamic efficiency and low inherent rotational moment of inertia and I kn ow nothing about that specific installation but the installation and aircra ft look good so I think it is worth a look. I also would like to disclose t hat I my company (aeromomentum.com) makes non Wankel auto conversion engine s. Keep in mind that the original factory KIS Cruiser with a factory new Lycom ing O-360 suffered a catastrophic engine failure at about 150 hours. The ro d went through the side of the case and the engine was totaled. The plane l anded in a wet field and flipped over causing very substantial damage. So i n this direct comparison, the used Wankel did far better than the brand new Lycoming. My TR-1 was originally equipped with a used Lycoming O-235 and i t needed rebuilding within 250 hours due to low compression. There is actually a community of Wankel builders and pilots and I am sure t hey can help with finding mechanics. Lots of speed shops will work on the e ngine if it is removed for major work. There are lots of A&P's that will do the annual on an EAB with any engine as long as there are recommenced proc edures. Many EAB aircraft like Sonex and Zenith mostly have non "aviation" engines and they do not seem to have an issue finding mechanics. I am also not a fan of playing with hard to start IO-360's, carburetors, ma nual mixture control, magnetos, air cooling, expensive Lycoming parts, etc. All of this is unreliable old technology compared to modern cars. Yes it w as better than cars in the 1940's and cars from back then were very unrelia ble and short lived compared to today. But today, Lycoming is obsolete and not nearly as reliable as modern cars. If someone is interested in N343BS but the Wankel is a big problem for them keep in mind that the kit was $35K+ 20 years ago and this one has well ove r $15K of avionics and additional parts. Plus it is built and the build is nice. So $45K is a fantastic deal for a well built airframe even if it did not have an engine. There are many Lycomings available new and used. I have one for sale that is set up prefect for the TR4 for $9700 including the co rrect Sensenich prop. Mark Kettering > On May 13, 2020, at 9:35 AM, Robert Reed wrote: > > =EF=BB > Just as an FYI, this was the plane originally built by Bill Schertz and i s a very beautiful build. Check it out. Very attractive price. > > Bob Reed > > On Wednesday, May 13, 2020, 10:51:52 AM CDT, Galin Hernandez wrote: > > > I was sent this For Sale ad (N343BS). > > https://kansascity.craigslist.org/avo/d/butler-kis-cruiser-tr-4/709015109 8.html ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:25 AM PST US From: William Schertz Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS4 N343BS For Sale Bob No problem, I recognized the effect on selling when I built it. What is the status of your plane? Bill On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 7:02 AM Robert Reed wrote: > Bill, my drawback comment was only directed at the salability aspect and > not the fly ability or quality of your build. > > Bob Reed > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 13, 2020, at 10:52 PM, William Schertz > wrote: > > =EF=BB > Actually the operating experience with most of the people that have put > Mazda Rotary Engines in planes has been quite good. This failure that > required a rebuild was unusual, but things do happen. > > That said, You could literally unbolt the engine mount and the mounting > locations used for this installation are the same as for a Lycoming. > > It is less salable with a rotary than with a Lycoming, but it was a > challenge and fun to make it work and build the plane and installation. > Bill Schertz > > On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 9:34 PM Robert Reed wrote: > >> The Mazda engine is a drawback but at the price it would still be a good >> deal for an engine swap with say a Superior IO-360. >> >> Bob Reed >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 13, 2020, at 9:59 PM, Randy Ott wrote: >> >> =EF=BBThat is going to be a hard sell. Mazda engine..... who is goi ng to >> work on it! >> Original owner ...No. >> New owner ..... No. >> Auto mechanic ...... on aircraft? They will run faster than the plane >> flys. >> A&P Aircraft mechanic .....No >> Who is going to do the annual conditional inspections......No one! >> Its a pretty bird ...... but I don=99t think it is manageable. >> Hate to be a downer.... but with that engine and reduction drive and >> overhaul after a hundred hours cries out WARNING WILL ROBINSON! >> Would not touch this with a 599 ft pole. >> Randy >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On May 13, 2020, at 9:35 AM, Robert Reed wrote: >> >> =EF=BB >> Just as an FYI, this was the plane originally built by Bill Schertz and >> is a very beautiful build. Check it out. Very attractive price. >> >> Bob Reed >> >> On Wednesday, May 13, 2020, 10:51:52 AM CDT, Galin Hernandez < >> galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> I was sent this For Sale ad (N343BS). >> >> >> https://kansascity.craigslist.org/avo/d/butler-kis-cruiser-tr-4/70901510 98.html >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:52 AM PST US From: Robert Reed Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS4 N343BS For Sale Thirty two hours into testing but stalled out on combination of weather and b uilding my new house. Still working part time and trying to do all cabinets a nd woodwork in a new house two hundred miles away is taking everything I hav e to give. Starting today on four weeks of 12 hour 7 days a week push to get finished. Bob Reed Sent from my iPhone > On May 14, 2020, at 9:02 AM, William Schertz wrote : > > =EF=BB > Bob > No problem, I recognized the effect on selling when I built it. > What is the status of your plane? > Bill > >> On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 7:02 AM Robert Reed wrote: >> Bill, my drawback comment was only directed at the salability aspect and n ot the fly ability or quality of your build. >> >> Bob Reed >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>> On May 13, 2020, at 10:52 PM, William Schertz w rote: >>>> >>> =EF=BB >>> Actually the operating experience with most of the people that have put M azda Rotary Engines in planes has been quite good. This failure that require d a rebuild was unusual, but things do happen. >>> >>> That said, You could literally unbolt the engine mount and the mounting l ocations used for this installation are the same as for a Lycoming. >>> >>> It is less salable with a rotary than with a Lycoming, but it was a chal lenge and fun to make it work and build the plane and installation. >>> Bill Schertz >>> >>>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 9:34 PM Robert Reed wrote: >>>> The Mazda engine is a drawback but at the price it would still be a goo d deal for an engine swap with say a Superior IO-360. >>>> >>>> Bob Reed >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>>> On May 13, 2020, at 9:59 PM, Randy Ott wrote: >>>>>> >>>>> =EF=BBThat is going to be a hard sell. Mazda engine..... who is g oing to work on it! >>>>> Original owner ...No. >>>>> New owner ..... No. >>>>> Auto mechanic ...... on aircraft? They will run faster than the plane flys. >>>>> A&P Aircraft mechanic .....No >>>>> Who is going to do the annual conditional inspections......No one! >>>>> Its a pretty bird ...... but I don=99t think it is manageable. >>>>> Hate to be a downer.... but with that engine and reduction drive and o verhaul after a hundred hours cries out WARNING WILL ROBINSON! >>>>> Would not touch this with a 599 ft pole. >>>>> Randy >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>>>> On May 13, 2020, at 9:35 AM, Robert Reed wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>> =EF=BB >>>>>> Just as an FYI, this was the plane originally built by Bill Schertz a nd is a very beautiful build. Check it out. Very attractive price. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bob Reed >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, May 13, 2020, 10:51:52 AM CDT, Galin Hernandez wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I was sent this For Sale ad (N343BS). >>>>>> >>>>>> https://kansascity.craigslist.org/avo/d/butler-kis-cruiser-tr-4/70901 51098.html ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:30:31 AM PST US From: William Schertz Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS4 N343BS For Sale Wow, interesting schedule! Where are you building? On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 8:22 AM Robert Reed wrote: > Thirty two hours into testing but stalled out on combination of weather > and building my new house. Still working part time and trying to do all > cabinets and woodwork in a new house two hundred miles away is taking > everything I have to give. Starting today on four weeks of 12 hour 7 days a > week push to get finished. > > > Bob Reed > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 14, 2020, at 9:02 AM, William Schertz > wrote: > > =EF=BB > Bob > No problem, I recognized the effect on selling when I built it. > What is the status of your plane? > Bill > > On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 7:02 AM Robert Reed wrote: > >> Bill, my drawback comment was only directed at the salability aspect and >> not the fly ability or quality of your build. >> >> Bob Reed >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 13, 2020, at 10:52 PM, William Schertz >> wrote: >> >> =EF=BB >> Actually the operating experience with most of the people that have put >> Mazda Rotary Engines in planes has been quite good. This failure that >> required a rebuild was unusual, but things do happen. >> >> That said, You could literally unbolt the engine mount and the mounting >> locations used for this installation are the same as for a Lycoming. >> >> It is less salable with a rotary than with a Lycoming, but it was a >> challenge and fun to make it work and build the plane and installation. >> Bill Schertz >> >> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 9:34 PM Robert Reed wrote: >> >>> The Mazda engine is a drawback but at the price it would still be a goo d >>> deal for an engine swap with say a Superior IO-360. >>> >>> Bob Reed >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 13, 2020, at 9:59 PM, Randy Ott wrote: >>> >>> =EF=BBThat is going to be a hard sell. Mazda engine..... who is go ing to >>> work on it! >>> Original owner ...No. >>> New owner ..... No. >>> Auto mechanic ...... on aircraft? They will run faster than the plane >>> flys. >>> A&P Aircraft mechanic .....No >>> Who is going to do the annual conditional inspections......No one! >>> Its a pretty bird ...... but I don=99t think it is manageable. >>> Hate to be a downer.... but with that engine and reduction drive and >>> overhaul after a hundred hours cries out WARNING WILL ROBINSON! >>> Would not touch this with a 599 ft pole. >>> Randy >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On May 13, 2020, at 9:35 AM, Robert Reed wrote: >>> >>> =EF=BB >>> Just as an FYI, this was the plane originally built by Bill Schertz and >>> is a very beautiful build. Check it out. Very attractive price. >>> >>> Bob Reed >>> >>> On Wednesday, May 13, 2020, 10:51:52 AM CDT, Galin Hernandez < >>> galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> I was sent this For Sale ad (N343BS). >>> >>> >>> https://kansascity.craigslist.org/avo/d/butler-kis-cruiser-tr-4/7090151 098.html >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:27 PM PST US From: Robert Reed Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS4 N343BS For Sale Building in Elkins Lake community just south of Huntsville Tx.=C2- It's a part of the Sam Houston National Forest and very heavily wooded.=C2- Th ere are three lakes, 27 holes of golf, tennis, swimming, and extensive walk ing trails.=C2- The community was designed to give the wildlife access th roughout with deer runs in, and around the area.=C2- My lot backs up to a two and 1/2 acre deer run that is a favorite of the local herd.=C2- I al so have a small creek (ravine) running through the middle of my lot and hav e constructed my house on just one side of the lot. (12,000 sq.ft. lot)=C2 - The deer are constantly passing through the area.=C2- Looked up from working on some cabinets the other day and had several outside my window wa tching me.=C2- I counted 15 of them that morning. Only problem for me now is that I have been on the waiting list for a hanga r at the local airport for more than three years and still waiting.=C2- ( Just to keep the thread on topic.) Bob On Thursday, May 14, 2020, 11:30:56 AM CDT, William Schertz wrote: Wow, interesting schedule! Where are you building? On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 8:22 AM Robert Reed wrote: Thirty two hours into testing but stalled out on combination of weather and building my new house. Still working part time and trying to do all cabine ts and woodwork in a new house two hundred miles away is taking everything I have to give. Starting today on four weeks of 12 hour 7 days a week push to get finished.=C2- Bob ReedSent from my iPhone On May 14, 2020, at 9:02 AM, William Schertz wrote: =EF=BBBobNo problem, I recognized the effect on selling when I built it. =C2-What is the status of your plane?Bill=C2- On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 7:02 AM Robert Reed wrote: Bill, my drawback comment was only directed at the salability aspect and no t the fly ability or quality of your build.=C2- Bob ReedSent from my iPhone On May 13, 2020, at 10:52 PM, William Schertz wrote : =EF=BBActually=C2-the operating experience with most of the people tha t have put Mazda Rotary Engines in planes has been quite good. This failure that required a rebuild was unusual, but things do happen.=C2-=C2- That said, You could literally unbolt the engine mount and the mounting loc ations used for this installation are the same as for a Lycoming. It is less salable with a rotary than with a Lycoming, but it was a challen ge and fun to make it work and build=C2-the plane and installation.Bill S chertz On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 9:34 PM Robert Reed wrote: The Mazda engine is a drawback but at the price it would still be a good de al for an engine swap with say a Superior IO-360.=C2- Bob ReedSent from my iPhone On May 13, 2020, at 9:59 PM, Randy Ott wrote: =EF=BBThat is going to be a hard sell. =C2- Mazda engine..... who is g oing to work on it!Original owner ...No.New owner ..... No.Auto mechanic .. .... on aircraft?=C2- They will run faster than the plane flys.A&P Aircra ft mechanic .....No=C2-Who is going to do the annual conditional inspecti ons......No one!=C2-=C2-Its a pretty bird ...... but I don=99t th ink it is manageable.Hate to be a downer.... but with that engine and reduc tion drive and overhaul after a hundred hours cries out WARNING WILL ROBINS ON!=C2-Would not touch this with a 599 ft pole.Randy Sent from my iPad On May 13, 2020, at 9:35 AM, Robert Reed wrote: =EF=BB Just as an FYI, this was the plane originally built by Bill Scher tz and is a very beautiful build.=C2- Check it out.=C2- Very attractive price. Bob Reed On Wednesday, May 13, 2020, 10:51:52 AM CDT, Galin Hernandez wrote: I was sent this For Sale ad (N343BS). https://kansascity.craigslist.org/avo/d/butler-kis-cruiser-tr-4/7090151098. html=C2-=C2- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:31:24 PM PST US From: Subject: RE: KIS-List: KIS4 N343BS For Sale Hello Bill, How are you keeping, I remember meeting you in Oshkosh in 98, always gratef ul for the list you ran back then, don=99t think I would have managed without it. Keep well Mike From: owner-kis-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of William Schertz Sent: May 14, 2020 9:28 AM Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS4 N343BS For Sale Wow, interesting schedule! Where are you building? On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 8:22 AM Robert Reed > wrote: Thirty two hours into testing but stalled out on combination of weather and building my new house. Still working part time and trying to do all cabine ts and woodwork in a new house two hundred miles away is taking everything I have to give. Starting today on four weeks of 12 hour 7 days a week push to get finished. Bob Reed Sent from my iPhone On May 14, 2020, at 9:02 AM, William Schertz > wrote: =EF=BB Bob No problem, I recognized the effect on selling when I built it. What is the status of your plane? Bill On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 7:02 AM Robert Reed > wrote: Bill, my drawback comment was only directed at the salability aspect and no t the fly ability or quality of your build. Bob Reed Sent from my iPhone On May 13, 2020, at 10:52 PM, William Schertz > wrote: =EF=BB Actually the operating experience with most of the people that have put Maz da Rotary Engines in planes has been quite good. This failure that required a rebuild was unusual, but things do happen. That said, You could literally unbolt the engine mount and the mounting loc ations used for this installation are the same as for a Lycoming. It is less salable with a rotary than with a Lycoming, but it was a challen ge and fun to make it work and build the plane and installation. Bill Schertz On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 9:34 PM Robert Reed > wrote: The Mazda engine is a drawback but at the price it would still be a good de al for an engine swap with say a Superior IO-360. Bob Reed Sent from my iPhone On May 13, 2020, at 9:59 PM, Randy Ott > wrote: =EF=BBThat is going to be a hard sell. Mazda engine..... who is going to work on it! Original owner ...No. New owner ..... No. Auto mechanic ...... on aircraft? They will run faster than the plane flys =2E A&P Aircraft mechanic .....No Who is going to do the annual conditional inspections......No one! Its a pretty bird ...... but I don=99t think it is manageable. Hate to be a downer.... but with that engine and reduction drive and overha ul after a hundred hours cries out WARNING WILL ROBINSON! Would not touch this with a 599 ft pole. Randy Sent from my iPad On May 13, 2020, at 9:35 AM, Robert Reed > wrote: =EF=BB Just as an FYI, this was the plane originally built by Bill Schertz and is a very beautiful build. Check it out. Very attractive price. Bob Reed On Wednesday, May 13, 2020, 10:51:52 AM CDT, Galin Hernandez > wrote: I was sent this For Sale ad (N343BS). https://kansascity.craigslist.org/avo/d/butler-kis-cruiser-tr-4/7090151098. html -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.