---------------------------------------------------------- KIS-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 03/19/21: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:57 AM - Stalling the TR-1 (jeffbudner) 2. 11:01 AM - Re: Stalling the TR-1 (pastormac@comcast.net) 3. 11:17 AM - Re: Stalling the TR-1 (jeffbudner) 4. 12:16 PM - Re: Re: Stalling the TR-1 (pastormac@comcast.net) 5. 01:27 PM - Re: Stalling the TR-1 (Hans Christian Erstad) 6. 03:34 PM - Re: Stalling the TR-1 (Galin Hernandez) 7. 03:38 PM - Re: Re: Stalling the TR-1 (Galin Hernandez) 8. 04:18 PM - Re: Stalling the TR-1 (jeffbudner) 9. 05:16 PM - Re: Re: Stalling the TR-1 (Graham Brighton) 10. 05:44 PM - Re: Re: Stalling the TR-1 (Galin Hernandez) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:57:26 AM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Stalling the TR-1 From: "jeffbudner" Hi all, I am on the 6th month of my TR-1 ownership, and I'm really enjoying the aircraft. When I first got the plane I was advised to take extra care to not stall the aircraft, but even intentionally at altitude due to the unruly stall characteristics that they experience themselves. This is the first aircraft I have flown in which I have no sense of what to expect in the event of a stall. It would be helpful to hear from others that have experienced stalling their KIS, especially accelerated and power-off stalls. Thanks for the feedback. Jeff KIS TR-1 #099 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501017#501017 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:01:14 AM PST US From: pastormac@comcast.net Subject: Re: KIS-List: Stalling the TR-1 Hi Jeff, The two I owned were pretty benign. I however placed vortex generators under the surface of the horizontal elevator. They helped a lot and on landing as well. To our success, Stephen McIntosh > On Mar 19, 2021, at 1:57 PM, jeffbudner wrote: > > > Hi all, I am on the 6th month of my TR-1 ownership, and I'm really enjoying the aircraft. When I first got the plane I was advised to take extra care to not stall the aircraft, but even intentionally at altitude due to the unruly stall characteristics that they experience themselves. This is the first aircraft I have flown in which I have no sense of what to expect in the event of a stall. > > It would be helpful to hear from others that have experienced stalling their KIS, especially accelerated and power-off stalls. > > Thanks for the feedback. > > Jeff > KIS TR-1 #099 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501017#501017 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:17:26 AM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Re: Stalling the TR-1 From: "jeffbudner" Thanks Stephen, I have a friend that is having success, in his TR-1, with VG's on the wings, I hadn't heard of anyone adding them to the elevator. Was you motivation to improve elevator authority in order to better control nose wheel touchdown or were you motivated by some other characteristic? Jeff KIS TR-1 #099 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501019#501019 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:16:03 PM PST US From: pastormac@comcast.net Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Stalling the TR-1 Hi Jeff, Yes, better elevator authority! It made a huge difference!! I placed them underneath the elevator. To our success, Stephen McIntosh > On Mar 19, 2021, at 2:17 PM, jeffbudner wrote: > > > Thanks Stephen, I have a friend that is having success, in his TR-1, with VG's on the wings, I hadn't heard of anyone adding them to the elevator. Was you motivation to improve elevator authority in order to better control nose wheel touchdown or were you motivated by some other characteristic? > > > Jeff > KIS TR-1 #099 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501019#501019 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:27:48 PM PST US From: Hans Christian Erstad Subject: Re: KIS-List: Stalling the TR-1 Hi, Jeff Nice to hear from new people experiencing KIS. If you fly an aircraft slow enough it is normal to stall. The TR-1 have a quite high nose attitude when speed is slow, and you will probably not get there unintentionally. But you should do a lot of stalls at good altitude. Try with a passenger/aft CG, and you will get a quite different experience. The stall depend more on CG position than power or accelerated. Know where you CG are compared to the CG limits stated. But if surely flicks. I have also experienced a flick in one direction followed by a flick in the other direction. But a stall/flick always end up with the nose pointing downwards, speed increasing and control re-gained. But you will always loose altitude. Practice this a lot, and then you will get an understanding that you have to monitor airspeed in the pattern and approach. Speed control on approach is also important, not only to not stall, but also to be able to get down at all. If you are high on the approach you cannot move the stick forward. If you let the speed increase, you overshoot. Control the approach angle by power only. Airspeed constant. That is probably how you learned to fly, and this aircraft have to be flown that way. I have also flown other aircraft with similar stall characteristics, but that has not been a Cessna. Regards, Hans KIS TR-1 #032 fre. 19. mar. 2021 kl. 18:58 skrev jeffbudner : > > Hi all, I am on the 6th month of my TR-1 ownership, and I'm really > enjoying the aircraft. When I first got the plane I was advised to take > extra care to not stall the aircraft, but even intentionally at altitude > due to the unruly stall characteristics that they experience themselves. > This is the first aircraft I have flown in which I have no sense of what to > expect in the event of a stall. > > It would be helpful to hear from others that have experienced stalling > their KIS, especially accelewith rated and power-off stalls. > > Thanks for the feedback. > > Jeff > KIS TR-1 #099 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501017#501017 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:34:59 PM PST US From: Galin Hernandez Subject: Re: KIS-List: Stalling the TR-1 I can't speak about the TR-1 but the TR-4 has excellent stall characteristics during both power on and power off. I would recommend you do some in flight stall testing as if the airplane was undergoing phase 1 testing. Get to an appropriate altitude and, with power off, come close to a stall (imminent) then recover. Next time go a bit deeper into the imminent stall and recover. Do this until you are either comfortable doing a full stall or don't think it is appropriate to go any further. Only you can decide what is appropriate. Hopefully you will find your airplane handles just like the other TR-1's out there flying. On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 4:28 PM Hans Christian Erstad wrote: > Hi, Jeff > > Nice to hear from new people experiencing KIS. > > If you fly an aircraft slow enough it is normal to stall. > > The TR-1 have a quite high nose attitude when speed is slow, and you will > probably not get there unintentionally. > > But you should do a lot of stalls at good altitude. Try with a > passenger/aft CG, and you will get a quite different experience. The stall > depend more on CG position than power or accelerated. Know where you CG are > compared to the CG limits stated. > > But if surely flicks. I have also experienced a flick in one direction > followed by a flick in the other direction. > > But a stall/flick always end up with the nose pointing downwards, speed > increasing and control re-gained. But you will always loose altitude. > > Practice this a lot, and then you will get an understanding that you have > to monitor airspeed in the pattern and approach. > > Speed control on approach is also important, not only to not stall, but > also to be able to get down at all. If you are high on the approach you > cannot move the stick forward. If you let the speed increase, you > overshoot. Control the approach angle by power only. Airspeed constant. > That is probably how you learned to fly, and this aircraft have to be flown > that way. > > I have also flown other aircraft with similar stall characteristics, but > that has not been a Cessna. > > Regards, Hans > KIS TR-1 #032 > > fre. 19. mar. 2021 kl. 18:58 skrev jeffbudner : > >> >> Hi all, I am on the 6th month of my TR-1 ownership, and I'm really >> enjoying the aircraft. When I first got the plane I was advised to take >> extra care to not stall the aircraft, but even intentionally at altitude >> due to the unruly stall characteristics that they experience themselves. >> This is the first aircraft I have flown in which I have no sense of what to >> expect in the event of a stall. >> >> It would be helpful to hear from others that have experienced stalling >> their KIS, especially accelewith rated and power-off stalls. >> >> Thanks for the feedback. >> >> Jeff >> KIS TR-1 #099 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501017#501017 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> igator?KIS-List >> ========== >> FORUMS - >> /a> >> ========== >> WIKI - >> > >> ========== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> tribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:38:38 PM PST US From: Galin Hernandez Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Stalling the TR-1 FWIW I placed VG's under the elevator and they made a nice difference. On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 3:16 PM wrote: > > Hi Jeff, > Yes, better elevator authority! It made a huge difference!! I placed > them underneath the elevator. > > To our success, Stephen McIntosh > > > On Mar 19, 2021, at 2:17 PM, jeffbudner wrote: > > .com> > > > > Thanks Stephen, I have a friend that is having success, in his TR-1, > with VG's on the wings, I hadn't heard of anyone adding them to the > elevator. Was you motivation to improve elevator authority in order to > better control nose wheel touchdown or were you motivated by some other > characteristic? > > > > > > Jeff > > KIS TR-1 #099 > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501019#501019 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:18:20 PM PST US Subject: KIS-List: Re: Stalling the TR-1 From: "jeffbudner" Thank you all for your responses. It's time for me to test the waters, find some altitude and slowly work my way into a stall. Your feedback is encouraging and much appreciated. I'm definitely considering VG's under the elevator. Jeff KIS TR-1 #099 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501024#501024 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:16:06 PM PST US From: "Graham Brighton" Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Stalling the TR-1 Er .. Is that VG's .. under the 'Elevator' or 'Horizontal Stabilizer ' Graham TR1 # 080 -------------------------------------------------- From: "jeffbudner" Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2021 10:18 AM Subject: KIS-List: Re: Stalling the TR-1 > > Thank you all for your responses. It's time for me to test the waters, > find some altitude and slowly work my way into a stall. Your feedback is > encouraging and much appreciated. I'm definitely considering VG's under > the elevator. > > > Jeff > KIS TR-1 #099 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501024#501024 > > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > https://www.avg.com > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:58 PM PST US From: Galin Hernandez Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Stalling the TR-1 Yea, that's what I meant. On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 8:16 PM Graham Brighton wrote: > gbrighton@skymesh.com.au> > > Er .. Is that VG's .. under the 'Elevator' or 'Horizontal Stabilizer ' > Graham > TR1 # 080 > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jeffbudner" > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2021 10:18 AM > To: > Subject: KIS-List: Re: Stalling the TR-1 > > > > > Thank you all for your responses. It's time for me to test the waters, > > find some altitude and slowly work my way into a stall. Your feedback is > > encouraging and much appreciated. I'm definitely considering VG's under > > the elevator. > > > > > > Jeff > > KIS TR-1 #099 > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501024#501024 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > > https://www.avg.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kis-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/KIS-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kis-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kis-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.