Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:24 PM - Re: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old (Galin Hernandez)
2. 01:50 PM - Re: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old (Glenn)
3. 05:55 PM - Re: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old (Robert Reed)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old |
Interesting, but I have never been a fan of pulling the airplane by the
tail tie down. Not sure it can handle the forces on it from an angle
instead of straight down as it was designed.
Keep us updated on how it works and well it stands up to being pulled on
this way.
On Friday, December 10, 2021, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote:
>
>
> I am setting it up to use the tie down for the tail to pull and guide
> while I push and steer the nose with the tow bar. Got the stand firmly
> anchored to the floor, just need battery and testing.
>
> Going to add a guide and stop to keep from pulling too far.
>
> Bob Reed
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 10, 2021, at 9:54 AM, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote:
>
> =EF=BBEd,
>
> Sounds entirely different from what I have done and I would really like t
o
> see the photos.
>
>
> Bob Reed
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 9, 2021, at 9:06 PM, Ed Hanson <hansoncp@netnitco.net> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
>
> Bob, I will be at my hangar next Monday. I will take a picture of my
> setup. Simply put, mine is a tow bar that connects to the toe bar points
on
> the nosewheel that has a an onboard winch, with a Bluetooth remote, that
> attaches to an anchor point in the hangar floor.
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows
>
>
> *From: *Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net>
> *Sent: *Monday, December 6, 2021 1:27 PM
> *To: *kis-list@matronics.com
> *Subject: *Re: KIS-List: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old
>
>
> Great Minds....All come up with virtually the same solution.
>
>
> My first thought and effort was put into modifying a Jazzy Pride powered
> scooter that I inherited from my mother-in-law. Put a connection for the
> tow bar on the front of it and gave it a try. Pulled the plane out witho
ut
> a problem but pushing it back in was impossible. The way the steering
> works on the scooter was impossible to control when pushing. Tried
> multiple configurations and NO JOY. So, next option was the Harbor Freig
ht
> Winch I had bought two years ago for helping me load heavy loads into my
> pickup by myself. I have a sturdy and heavy metal stand that I am mounti
ng
> the winch on with the battery and controls on a shelf under the top. Put
> anchor bolts into the hangar floor and will be bolting it to the stand.
> Winch looks like it will be at just right height for straight pull and
> plenty of cable to work with. Haven't finished the hookup yet but hope t
o
> do so this week. My tow connection will be to the rear tie down
> supplemented by pushing with the tow bar from the front.
>
>
> Thanks for your input, it confirms the workability of the winch system fo
r
> me.
>
>
> Great to hear from you Bill and hated to hear that you sold your plane bu
t
> understand.
>
>
> Ed Hanson, I would like to see a photo of your setup, it sounds entirely
> different from what I am doing and I would like to see how you worked it.
> Not sure if I understood that you are pulling back using the nose wheel o
r
> not. If so, how do you steer the plane when it is backing up?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Bob Reed
>
>
> On Monday, December 6, 2021, 10:28:11 AM CST, William Schertz <
> wschertz343@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Bob
>
> I also used a cheap Harbor freight winch to pull my plane back into the
> hanger. Looped a soft nylon rope around the horizontal stab, then could u
se
> the remote control on the winch while guiding from the front with a towba
r.
>
> Bill
>
> p.s. My plane is currently owned by a partnership in FL (second set of
> owners) and is being retrofitted for a Lycoming. My firewall forward with
> the Mazda is currently owned by a Cozy builder in TN who will be making i
t
> 'firewall aft' installation.
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 5, 2021 at 8:03 PM Ed Hanson <hansoncp@netnitco.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Bob, I had the same problem with my hangar approach so I made a KIS
> tug. I installed a single 3/8=9D anchor in the hangar floor at abo
ut 2/3rds
> of the hangar depth and in line with the fuselage centerline. I bent a lo
op
> out of some flat iron that bolts to the anchor. This is for a winch cable
> hook. I bought a cheap 12 volt remote controlled winch from Harbor freigh
t.
> I mounted the winch and a battery to an angle iron frame I fabricated tha
t
> allows the angles to spread and two studs to engage in the tow bar holes
on
> the nose wheel when aligned from the rear. I put two old lawn mower wheel
s
> on the rear of the frame. I put some foam pipe insulation over the angle
> irons where they are near the wheel pant to avoid any contact. I have a
> small tie angle on the front of the setup that you swing close and drop i
n
> a =C2=BC=99 locking bolt after you engage the studs in nose wheel.
I=99ve found
> putting a pipe wrench on the tie angle helps to steer the nose wheel into
> the hangar. Makes life a lot easier for us especially when we are full of
> fuel. I keep an old cable come-a-long in the hangar in case the battery
> gets low.
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows
>
>
> *From: *Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net>
> *Sent: *Sunday, December 5, 2021 7:50 PM
> *To: *kis-list@matronics.com
> *Subject: *Re: KIS-List: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old
>
>
> I hate to admit this but I had been working on my project for about a yea
r
> when Dave Tate and his wife came to visit us and look over my project. Da
ve
> had just ordered his kit. Dave finished his project, flew it several year
s
> before selling it to Galin. Galin flew it all over the country while I wa
s
> still working on my plane. My congratulations to both Dave and Galin for
> proving what a great airplane the Cruiser is.
>
>
> I finally finished my plane a couple of years ago now. It=99s take
n me the
> last two years to put the 40 hours of test flights. Getting the test flig
ht
> time suffered from the same issues as the buildlife just kept ge
tting in
> the way and I had a house to build. Still have some work to do on the hou
se
> but nothing that can=99t wait for some well earned flying. The onl
y problem
> now is that I can=99t push the plane back into the hangar by myself
. There=99s
> a definite slope away from hangar and I am getting too old to have to put
> that much effort into pushing the plane. Bruised my ribs the last time I
> did it so I am now working on some kind of tug.
>
>
> Bob Reed
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> > On Dec 4, 2021, at 7:58 AM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > =EF=BB
>
> > As of 12/03/2021, my KIS4 airplane (SN 4052) has been flying for 20
> years. Originally built by Dave Tate as N92DT it has averaged 75 flight
> hours every year since then. I hope to see it flying for at least another
> 20 years.
>
> >
>
> > Attached is a photo taken on 12/3/2021 during the 1st flight and a
> photo taken on 4/16/2021 during Sun-N-Fun.
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old |
Bill S, our builder specifically told us not to pull from the rear tie.
Down ok but not back. I guess it could be dependant on how it was installed
during build.
On Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 3:25 PM Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
> Interesting, but I have never been a fan of pulling the airplane by the
> tail tie down. Not sure it can handle the forces on it from an angle
> instead of straight down as it was designed.
>
> Keep us updated on how it works and well it stands up to being pulled on
> this way.
>
> On Friday, December 10, 2021, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I am setting it up to use the tie down for the tail to pull and guide
>> while I push and steer the nose with the tow bar. Got the stand firmly
>> anchored to the floor, just need battery and testing.
>>
>> Going to add a guide and stop to keep from pulling too far.
>>
>> Bob Reed
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 10, 2021, at 9:54 AM, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote:
>>
>> =EF=BBEd,
>>
>> Sounds entirely different from what I have done and I would really like
>> to see the photos.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob Reed
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 9, 2021, at 9:06 PM, Ed Hanson <hansoncp@netnitco.net> wrote:
>>
>> =EF=BB
>>
>> Bob, I will be at my hangar next Monday. I will take a picture of my
>> setup. Simply put, mine is a tow bar that connects to the toe bar points
on
>> the nosewheel that has a an onboard winch, with a Bluetooth remote, that
>> attaches to an anchor point in the hangar floor.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net>
>> *Sent: *Monday, December 6, 2021 1:27 PM
>> *To: *kis-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject: *Re: KIS-List: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old
>>
>>
>>
>> Great Minds....All come up with virtually the same solution.
>>
>>
>>
>> My first thought and effort was put into modifying a Jazzy Pride powered
>> scooter that I inherited from my mother-in-law. Put a connection for th
e
>> tow bar on the front of it and gave it a try. Pulled the plane out with
out
>> a problem but pushing it back in was impossible. The way the steering
>> works on the scooter was impossible to control when pushing. Tried
>> multiple configurations and NO JOY. So, next option was the Harbor Frei
ght
>> Winch I had bought two years ago for helping me load heavy loads into my
>> pickup by myself. I have a sturdy and heavy metal stand that I am mount
ing
>> the winch on with the battery and controls on a shelf under the top. Pu
t
>> anchor bolts into the hangar floor and will be bolting it to the stand.
>> Winch looks like it will be at just right height for straight pull and
>> plenty of cable to work with. Haven't finished the hookup yet but hope
to
>> do so this week. My tow connection will be to the rear tie down
>> supplemented by pushing with the tow bar from the front.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your input, it confirms the workability of the winch system
>> for me.
>>
>>
>>
>> Great to hear from you Bill and hated to hear that you sold your plane
>> but understand.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ed Hanson, I would like to see a photo of your setup, it sounds entirely
>> different from what I am doing and I would like to see how you worked it
.
>> Not sure if I understood that you are pulling back using the nose wheel
or
>> not. If so, how do you steer the plane when it is backing up?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob Reed
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, December 6, 2021, 10:28:11 AM CST, William Schertz <
>> wschertz343@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> I also used a cheap Harbor freight winch to pull my plane back into the
>> hanger. Looped a soft nylon rope around the horizontal stab, then could
use
>> the remote control on the winch while guiding from the front with a towb
ar.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> p.s. My plane is currently owned by a partnership in FL (second set of
>> owners) and is being retrofitted for a Lycoming. My firewall forward wit
h
>> the Mazda is currently owned by a Cozy builder in TN who will be making
it
>> 'firewall aft' installation.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 5, 2021 at 8:03 PM Ed Hanson <hansoncp@netnitco.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Bob, I had the same problem with my hangar approach so I made a KIS
>> tug. I installed a single 3/8=9D anchor in the hangar floor at ab
out 2/3rds
>> of the hangar depth and in line with the fuselage centerline. I bent a l
oop
>> out of some flat iron that bolts to the anchor. This is for a winch cabl
e
>> hook. I bought a cheap 12 volt remote controlled winch from Harbor freig
ht.
>> I mounted the winch and a battery to an angle iron frame I fabricated th
at
>> allows the angles to spread and two studs to engage in the tow bar holes
on
>> the nose wheel when aligned from the rear. I put two old lawn mower whee
ls
>> on the rear of the frame. I put some foam pipe insulation over the angle
>> irons where they are near the wheel pant to avoid any contact. I have a
>> small tie angle on the front of the setup that you swing close and drop
in
>> a =C2=BC=99 locking bolt after you engage the studs in nose wheel.
I=99ve found
>> putting a pipe wrench on the tie angle helps to steer the nose wheel int
o
>> the hangar. Makes life a lot easier for us especially when we are full o
f
>> fuel. I keep an old cable come-a-long in the hangar in case the battery
>> gets low.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net>
>> *Sent: *Sunday, December 5, 2021 7:50 PM
>> *To: *kis-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject: *Re: KIS-List: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old
>>
>>
>>
>> I hate to admit this but I had been working on my project for about a
>> year when Dave Tate and his wife came to visit us and look over my proje
ct.
>> Dave had just ordered his kit. Dave finished his project, flew it severa
l
>> years before selling it to Galin. Galin flew it all over the country whi
le
>> I was still working on my plane. My congratulations to both Dave and Gal
in
>> for proving what a great airplane the Cruiser is.
>>
>>
>>
>> I finally finished my plane a couple of years ago now. It=99s tak
en me the
>> last two years to put the 40 hours of test flights. Getting the test fli
ght
>> time suffered from the same issues as the buildlife just kept g
etting in
>> the way and I had a house to build. Still have some work to do on the ho
use
>> but nothing that can=99t wait for some well earned flying. The on
ly problem
>> now is that I can=99t push the plane back into the hangar by mysel
f. There=99s
>> a definite slope away from hangar and I am getting too old to have to pu
t
>> that much effort into pushing the plane. Bruised my ribs the last time I
>> did it so I am now working on some kind of tug.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob Reed
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Dec 4, 2021, at 7:58 AM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote
:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > =EF=BB
>>
>> > As of 12/03/2021, my KIS4 airplane (SN 4052) has been flying for 20
>> years. Originally built by Dave Tate as N92DT it has averaged 75 flight
>> hours every year since then. I hope to see it flying for at least anothe
r
>> 20 years.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Attached is a photo taken on 12/3/2021 during the 1st flight and a
>> photo taken on 4/16/2021 during Sun-N-Fun.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old |
First is that I won=99t be using the winch to pull alone but to assist
me on the pushing with the tow bar and help guide the tail into position.
Second, I would not have even considered using the tiedown if I had used the
standard tie down. I designed a self-retracting tie down from u-channel mou
nted on a hard base and glassed in with multiple layers of glass. There
=99s some photos of it on my website. It should be equally or greater streng
th in lateral pull as down. I should know more by the end of this week.
Bob Reed
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 11, 2021, at 3:50 PM, Glenn <dadmeyers1951@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> Bill S, our builder specifically told us not to pull from the rear tie. Do
wn ok but not back. I guess it could be dependant on how it was installed du
ring build.
>
>> On Sat, Dec 11, 2021, 3:25 PM Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Interesting, but I have never been a fan of pulling the airplane by the t
ail tie down. Not sure it can handle the forces on it from an angle instead o
f straight down as it was designed.
>>
>> Keep us updated on how it works and well it stands up to being pulled on t
his way.
>>
>>> On Friday, December 10, 2021, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am setting it up to use the tie down for the tail to pull and guide wh
ile I push and steer the nose with the tow bar. Got the stand firmly anchore
d to the floor, just need battery and testing.
>>>
>>> Going to add a guide and stop to keep from pulling too far.
>>>
>>> Bob Reed
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>>> On Dec 10, 2021, at 9:54 AM, Robert Reed <robertr237@att.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>> =EF=BBEd,
>>>>
>>>> Sounds entirely different from what I have done and I would really like
to see the photos.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bob Reed
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 9, 2021, at 9:06 PM, Ed Hanson <hansoncp@netnitco.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>> =EF=BB
>>>>> Bob, I will be at my hangar next Monday. I will take a picture of my s
etup. Simply put, mine is a tow bar that connects to the toe bar points on t
he nosewheel that has a an onboard winch, with a Bluetooth remote, that atta
ches to an anchor point in the hangar floor.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Robert Reed
>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 6, 2021 1:27 PM
>>>>> To: kis-list@matronics.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Great Minds....All come up with virtually the same solution.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My first thought and effort was put into modifying a Jazzy Pride power
ed scooter that I inherited from my mother-in-law. Put a connection for the
tow bar on the front of it and gave it a try. Pulled the plane out without
a problem but pushing it back in was impossible. The way the steering work
s on the scooter was impossible to control when pushing. Tried multiple con
figurations and NO JOY. So, next option was the Harbor Freight Winch I had b
ought two years ago for helping me load heavy loads into my pickup by myself
. I have a sturdy and heavy metal stand that I am mounting the winch on wit
h the battery and controls on a shelf under the top. Put anchor bolts into t
he hangar floor and will be bolting it to the stand. Winch looks like it wi
ll be at just right height for straight pull and plenty of cable to work wit
h. Haven't finished the hookup yet but hope to do so this week. My tow con
nection will be to the rear tie down supplemented by pushing with the tow ba
r from the front.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for your input, it confirms the workability of the winch system
for me.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Great to hear from you Bill and hated to hear that you sold your plane
but understand.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed Hanson, I would like to see a photo of your setup, it sounds entire
ly different from what I am doing and I would like to see how you worked it.
Not sure if I understood that you are pulling back using the nose wheel or
not. If so, how do you steer the plane when it is backing up?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob Reed
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, December 6, 2021, 10:28:11 AM CST, William Schertz <wschert
z343@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob
>>>>>
>>>>> I also used a cheap Harbor freight winch to pull my plane back into th
e hanger. Looped a soft nylon rope around the horizontal stab, then could us
e the remote control on the winch while guiding from the front with a towbar
.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill
>>>>>
>>>>> p.s. My plane is currently owned by a partnership in FL (second set of
owners) and is being retrofitted for a Lycoming. My firewall forward with t
he Mazda is currently owned by a Cozy builder in TN who will be making it '
firewall aft' installation.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Dec 5, 2021 at 8:03 PM Ed Hanson <hansoncp@netnitco.net> wrote
:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Bob, I had the same problem with my hangar approach so I made a KIS
tug. I installed a single 3/8=9D anchor in the hangar floor at about
2/3rds of the hangar depth and in line with the fuselage centerline. I bent
a loop out of some flat iron that bolts to the anchor. This is for a winch c
able hook. I bought a cheap 12 volt remote controlled winch from Harbor frei
ght. I mounted the winch and a battery to an angle iron frame I fabricated t
hat allows the angles to spread and two studs to engage in the tow bar holes
on the nose wheel when aligned from the rear. I put two old lawn mower whee
ls on the rear of the frame. I put some foam pipe insulation over the angle i
rons where they are near the wheel pant to avoid any contact. I have a small
tie angle on the front of the setup that you swing close and drop in a =C2=BC
=99 locking bolt after you engage the studs in nose wheel. I=99v
e found putting a pipe wrench on the tie angle helps to steer the nose wheel
into the hangar. Makes life a lot easier for us especially when we are full
of fuel. I keep an old cable come-a-long in the hangar in case the battery g
ets low.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Robert Reed
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 5, 2021 7:50 PM
>>>>> To: kis-list@matronics.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: KIS-List: KIS4 SN 4052 is 20yrs old
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I hate to admit this but I had been working on my project for about a y
ear when Dave Tate and his wife came to visit us and look over my project. D
ave had just ordered his kit. Dave finished his project, flew it several yea
rs before selling it to Galin. Galin flew it all over the country while I wa
s still working on my plane. My congratulations to both Dave and Galin for p
roving what a great airplane the Cruiser is.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I finally finished my plane a couple of years ago now. It=99s t
aken me the last two years to put the 40 hours of test flights. Getting the t
est flight time suffered from the same issues as the buildlife just
kept getting in the way and I had a house to build. Still have some work to
do on the house but nothing that can=99t wait for some well earned fl
ying. The only problem now is that I can=99t push the plane back into
the hangar by myself. There=99s a definite slope away from hangar an
d I am getting too old to have to put that much effort into pushing the plan
e. Bruised my ribs the last time I did it so I am now working on some kind o
f tug.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob Reed
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > On Dec 4, 2021, at 7:58 AM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz@gmail.com> wro
te:
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> > =EF=BB
>>>>>
>>>>> > As of 12/03/2021, my KIS4 airplane (SN 4052) has been flying for 20 y
ears. Originally built by Dave Tate as N92DT it has averaged 75 flight hours
every year since then. I hope to see it flying for at least another 20 year
s.
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> > Attached is a photo taken on 12/3/2021 during the 1st flight and a p
hoto taken on 4/16/2021 during Sun-N-Fun.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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