Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:58 AM - Re: Rough running engine (Lyle Persels)
2. 08:34 AM - FW: Re: WESTACH QUAD GAUGE (Don Pearsall)
3. 08:36 AM - FW: Fuel Levels -- Wing Tanks (Don Pearsall)
4. 08:36 AM - dip stick (dmorisse)
5. 08:46 AM - Re: FW: Fuel Levels -- Wing Tanks ()
6. 03:39 PM - Re: FW: Fuel Levels -- Wing Tanks (Lowell Fitt)
7. 05:09 PM - No Subject (KFN102LG@aol.com)
8. 06:13 PM - heater fan (dmorisse)
9. 06:16 PM - 912 ignition module (dmorisse)
10. 06:27 PM - Re: No Subject (JMCBEAN)
11. 08:44 PM - Re: No Subject (kitfoxpilot@att.net)
12. 11:04 PM - Re: My first "test" flight (kurt schrader)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Rough running engine |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lyle Persels <lpers@mchsi.com>
Herb is right, of course. If the problem occurs with the ignition
switch(es) in the BOTH position, there is a failure in both the A
ignition circuit and the B ignition circuit. The most likely problem
sources are the black ground wires that run from the double ignition
coil to ground and the white wires that run through single-pole plug
connectors from each double ignition coil to its corresponding
electronic module. Check these wires on the left double ignition coils
both front and rear. Check these plug connectors. And remember that any
of these wires can break inside the insulation without any problem being
visible from the outside.
tom wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: tom <ditapo@yahoo.com>
>
>That's what I was wondering about. So there are four coils and each of them has
a ground lead coming out of the ignition modules? I really wish I had a schematic.
I believe I may have some faulty wiring and all the shaking the engine
has been doing is making it worse and sporatic. Which is probably why the mag
switches don't always work.
>
>GOFALKE@aol.com wrote:--> Kitfox-List message posted by: GOFALKE@aol.com
>
>If the two front cylinders on the 912 are not firing you could have a broken
>ground wire on two of the four double ignition coils, the one firing top 1 and
>2 and the other firing the bottom 1 and 2 cylinders.
>
>Herbert Gottelt
>Mt. Prospect, IL
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: FW: Re: WESTACH QUAD GAUGE |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Sent to old list
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: <barryehuston@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: WESTACH QUAD GAUGE
Tom, Vic, Dave & Elbie
I sent the meter to Westach -- have back & working --- same response as Tom's below
and suspect that they replaced the regulator as Vic described .
Dave, in the troubleshooting tried your suggestion and Elbie you were
eventually right about the Mfg.
Truly appreciate you folks took the time to set me in the right direction.
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: tom
To: kitfox@sportflight.com
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: WESTACH QUAD GAUGE
I have the same unit and had a similar problem with the oil pressure. = I
kept tinkering with it but I finally bit the bullet and sent it to Westach. The
oil pressure sender was $100 but they didn't charge me at = all
to upgrade and fix the guage and replace the broken backing. I was = very
happy in the end, and I'm a major tightwad...... :)
barryehuston@earthlink.net wrote:
Folks
Have a Westach Quad Gauge model 3AQ4KV
Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, EGT and CHT
1992 vintage installed a year ago and the ROTAX 912 has 46 hrs
With the master OFF, Oil Pressure needle sits on "0"
The three other needles sit on the lowest calibrated mark.
When the master is turned on, except for the EGT -- the needles
go negative to the stops. In the case of oil pressure the negative distance
is equivalent to -15 lbs. When the engine starts the needle doesn't move ----
don't dare to chance running it so shut
it right down.
The panel voltmeter reads fine at 12v.
Anyone know what's up ??
I did run a ground jumper from the instrument ground buss to
the engine --- no change.
Thanks
Barry
Barry E Huston
30 South Shore Road
P O Box 182
Center Ossipee, NH 03814
(603) 539-5569 home
(603) 539-8101 fax (pls call first)
(603) 630-0101 cell
barryehuston@earthlink.net
Message 3
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| Subject: | FW: Fuel Levels -- Wing Tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Sent to old list
Don
__________________________________
From: <barryehuston@earthlink.net>
Subject: Fuel Levels -- Wing Tanks
Has anyone made a Fuel Level -- Calibrated Dip Stick for the Model IV 13
Gal Wing Tanks?? If so would appreciate the info.
Thanks
Barry
Barry E Huston
30 South Shore Road
P O Box 182
Center Ossipee, NH 03814
(603) 539-5569 home
(603) 539-8101 fax (pls call first)
(603) 630-0101 cell
barryehuston@earthlink.net
Message 4
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dmorisse" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Bounced as sent from non-member address.
Darrel
From: <barryehuston@earthlink.net>
Subject: Fuel Levels -- Wing Tanks
Has anyone made a Fuel Level -- Calibrated Dip Stick for the Model IV 13
Gal Wing Tanks?? If so would appreciate the info.
Thanks
Barry
Barry E Huston
30 South Shore Road
P O Box 182
Center Ossipee, NH 03814
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: FW: Fuel Levels -- Wing Tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <barryehuston@earthlink.net>
Don & Darrel
SORRY --- I'm on the right page now!!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: FW: Fuel Levels -- Wing Tanks
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall"
<donpearsall@comcast.net>
>
> Sent to old list
> Don
> __________________________________
>
> From: <barryehuston@earthlink.net>
> To: <kitfox@sportflight.com>
> Subject: Fuel Levels -- Wing Tanks
> Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:36:05 -0500
>
> Has anyone made a Fuel Level -- Calibrated Dip Stick for the Model IV 13
> Gal Wing Tanks?? If so would appreciate the info.
>
>
> Thanks
> Barry
>
>
> Barry E Huston
> 30 South Shore Road
> P O Box 182
> Center Ossipee, NH 03814
>
> (603) 539-5569 home
> (603) 539-8101 fax (pls call first)
>
> (603) 630-0101 cell
>
> barryehuston@earthlink.net
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: FW: Fuel Levels -- Wing Tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Barry, I made a dipstick like device that fits into the filler neck and has
a float attached to an indicator that shows when the tank is full. I always
fill with a Mr. Funnel and fuel spills are a real possibility as I can't see
the fuel level in the tanks as I fill. My intention was to combine it with
the funnel - but it remains a project for a later day. I have yet to
calibrate it gallon for gallon, because unless the wings are exactly level
the dip stick method won't read exactly.
Lowell
.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: FW: Fuel Levels -- Wing Tanks
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall"
<donpearsall@comcast.net>
>
> Sent to old list
> Don
> __________________________________
>
> From: <barryehuston@earthlink.net>
> To: <kitfox@sportflight.com>
> Subject: Fuel Levels -- Wing Tanks
> Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:36:05 -0500
>
> Has anyone made a Fuel Level -- Calibrated Dip Stick for the Model IV 13
> Gal Wing Tanks?? If so would appreciate the info.
>
>
> Thanks
> Barry
>
>
> Barry E Huston
> 30 South Shore Road
> P O Box 182
> Center Ossipee, NH 03814
>
> (603) 539-5569 home
> (603) 539-8101 fax (pls call first)
>
> (603) 630-0101 cell
>
> barryehuston@earthlink.net
>
>
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: KFN102LG@aol.com
The Rotax 912 in my Model IV has failed to stop when the kill switches are
thrown. One side shuts off with a noticeable RPM drop but the other side
keeps it running. I happened a few times before and the next time I'd try it,
it
would work fine but now the problem seems to have settled in. My system is
wired to ground the ignition P leads with either the key switch or separate kill
switches and I have to shut off the fuel to get the engine to stop. I checked
the system and get a ground on both leads to the ignition modules by either
turning off the key or separately with the kill switches. Switching the
modules moves the problem to the other circuit so I think the problem is between
the
module and ground. I've probed the ground lead from the case (as close as I
can get) to the ground lug terminal and pulled on the wire to see if the wire
was broken inside the insulation as was the case with some of the other ground
leads in the ignition system some time ago but it tested OK with a meter. I
wanted to survey the list and see if anyone else had encountered the problem
before calling Lockwood or CPS tomorrow. I remember the engine not running on
the circuit with the bad ground wire a year or so ago but don't recall anyone
having this type of failure with a module. They are expensive and non
returnable so I want to explore all possibilities before I order one. On that
note,
if anyone has one they want to sell, please contact me off list. Thanks in
advance for any advice.
Larry Gagnon
Model IV/912 N102LG
RV6 O360 N6LG
Cell anytime 860-573-2205
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dmorisse" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Bounced - sent to old List.
Darrel
List Janitor
From: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Heater fan
Grant,
No, I made up the cabin heater myself from parts I purchased out of
catalogs, but it is similar in design as the SkyStar design. I did add
a panel controlled shut off valve for the coolant to take the heater
radiator out of the cooling circuit. The radiator for the 912S in the
Series 6 is much larger than that of the Model IV and earlier models, so
that the heater radiator is never required to help cool down the engine
on hot very days. If the heater radiator is not isolated on hot days,
the heater stays hot and adds to the cabin temperature discomfort.
Also, I do not like hot coolant flowing inside the cabin when not needed.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Grant Fluent wrote:
>John K,
>
> Did you buy your heater from SS or build it?
>
>Grant Fluent
>Newcastle, NE
>Classic IV
Message 9
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| Subject: | 912 ignition module |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dmorisse" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Bounced-sent to old list.
Darrel
List Janitor
From: KFN102LG@aol.com
Subject: Re:912 ignition module
The Rotax 912 in my Model IV has failed to stop when the kill switches are
thrown. One side shuts off with a noticeable RPM drop but the other side
keeps it running. I happened a few times before and the next time I'd try
it, it
would work fine but now the problem seems to have settled in. My system is
wired to ground the ignition P leads with either the key switch or separate
kill
switches and I have to shut off the fuel to get the engine to stop. I
checked
the system and get a ground on both leads to the ignition modules by either
turning off the key or separately with the kill switches. Switching the
modules moves the problem to the other circuit so I think the problem is
between the
module and ground. I've probed the ground lead from the case (as close as
I
can get) to the ground lug terminal and pulled on the wire to see if the
wire
was broken inside the insulation as was the case with some of the other
ground
leads in the ignition system some time ago but it tested OK with a meter.
I
wanted to survey the list and see if anyone else had encountered the
problem
before calling Lockwood or CPS tomorrow. I remember the engine not running
on
the circuit with the bad ground wire a year or so ago but don't recall
anyone
having this type of failure with a module. They are expensive and non
returnable so I want to explore all possibilities before I order one. On
that note,
if anyone has one they want to sell, please contact me off list. Thanks in
advance for any advice.
Larry Gagnon
Model IV/912 N102LG
RV6 O360 N6LG
Cell anytime 860-573-2205
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN@cableone.net>
Larry,
I have seen this before and it is usually the "p-lead" wires. The wire
breaks within the insulation near the module and becomes an intermittent
problem.
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of KFN102LG@aol.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: No Subject
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: KFN102LG@aol.com
The Rotax 912 in my Model IV has failed to stop when the kill switches are
thrown. One side shuts off with a noticeable RPM drop but the other side
keeps it running. I happened a few times before and the next time I'd try
it, it
would work fine but now the problem seems to have settled in. My system is
wired to ground the ignition P leads with either the key switch or separate
kill
switches and I have to shut off the fuel to get the engine to stop. I
checked
the system and get a ground on both leads to the ignition modules by either
turning off the key or separately with the kill switches. Switching the
modules moves the problem to the other circuit so I think the problem is
between the
module and ground. I've probed the ground lead from the case (as close as I
can get) to the ground lug terminal and pulled on the wire to see if the
wire
was broken inside the insulation as was the case with some of the other
ground
leads in the ignition system some time ago but it tested OK with a meter. I
wanted to survey the list and see if anyone else had encountered the problem
before calling Lockwood or CPS tomorrow. I remember the engine not running
on
the circuit with the bad ground wire a year or so ago but don't recall
anyone
having this type of failure with a module. They are expensive and non
returnable so I want to explore all possibilities before I order one. On
that note,
if anyone has one they want to sell, please contact me off list. Thanks in
advance for any advice.
Larry Gagnon
Model IV/912 N102LG
RV6 O360 N6LG
Cell anytime 860-573-2205
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxpilot@att.net
I HAD EXPERIENCED THE SAME PROBLEM WITH MY 912S. TURNS OUT, IT WAS JUST A
BAD CONNECETION OR SHOULD I SAY CONTACT POINT.. I PULLED THE WIRE OFF EACH
SWITCH, RE ATTACHED THEM AND THE PROBLEM WAS SOLVED.
RAY
MODEL IV 1200, 912S
N2BH
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: KFN102LG@aol.com
>
> The Rotax 912 in my Model IV has failed to stop when the kill switches are
> thrown. One side shuts off with a noticeable RPM drop but the other side
> keeps it running. I happened a few times before and the next time I'd try it,
> it
> would work fine but now the problem seems to have settled in. My system is
> wired to ground the ignition P leads with either the key switch or separate kill
> switches and I have to shut off the fuel to get the engine to stop. I checked
> the system and get a ground on both leads to the ignition modules by either
> turning off the key or separately with the kill switches. Switching the
> modules moves the problem to the other circuit so I think the problem is between
> the
> module and ground. I've probed the ground lead from the case (as close as I
> can get) to the ground lug terminal and pulled on the wire to see if the wire
> was broken inside the insulation as was the case with some of the other ground
> leads in the ignition system some time ago but it tested OK with a meter. I
> wanted to survey the list and see if anyone else had encountered the problem
> before calling Lockwood or CPS tomorrow. I remember the engine not running on
> the circuit with the bad ground wire a year or so ago but don't recall anyone
> having this type of failure with a module. They are expensive and non
> returnable so I want to explore all possibilities before I order one. On that
> note,
> if anyone has one they want to sell, please contact me off list. Thanks in
> advance for any advice.
>
> Larry Gagnon
> Model IV/912 N102LG
> RV6 O360 N6LG
> Cell anytime 860-573-2205
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: My first "test" flight |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
If you all remember, I got my tailwheel sign-off
Thursday out in Portland, OR. I planned to get more
time in the local club's Citabra and Champ before
flying my KF, but my friend/instructor told me to fly
mine ASAP. He said those others just aren't "high
performance" planes and I needed to stay with what he
taught me. But since returning to KY, the wx has been
pretty bad. Certainly not first flight wx.
I was also worried about not having my plane insured.
Couldn't seem to get that without at least 10, and
better yet, 20 hrs of tailwheel time. And they wanted
it in the same series KF with the same engine! Heck,
how many KF-5 tail draggers are out there with an NSI
turbo who want to instruct?
Yesterday it rained and was windy. I fiddled with a
small oil seep from my friends first flight in my
plane. Braded oil line going into the cooler. It was
almost a quart low too. I stuck in half a quart due
to the oil running hot in flight. A little more oil
to absorbe the heat I thought. Then I left it like
that with the cowl off and did an engine run. No
leaks, but it ran cold. Needed radiator tape. I'll
do that Sunday...
Well, today the weather lifted enough in the afternoon
for me to get in a short flight. Thought about it and
decided that I'd just go for it so I could call my dad
and let him know. No guts - no glory. 2,800
overcast, but light winds and in the 40's. Good for
my hot running oil temp. Then the "little" problems
came up....
I had about 4 gal, plus the header fuel on board, so I
went to the gas station to get 5 more gal to give me a
comfort factor for the flight. Darn, the fuel pumped
so slowly I pulled the pump handle out for a look.
Foam, suds, squirt, cough, cough. The stations tank
must be near empty. Ok, that stuff will go in my van
instead. No telling what is coming out of the bottom
of the tank. Definately not first flight juice!
And now it was getting too late to get more gas
elsewhere, so the flight will just have to be shorter.
Maybe just a few takeoffs and landings. I still had
to put the cowl back on and move planes out of the
hangar to get at mine... Plus a few little things to
do, like tape off some of the radiator due to the temp
drop.
Well, I did get it ready with maybe 20 minutes of
daylight left. Started ok. Taxi was interesting.
Soon the bottom of the wings on both sides were wet
just below the tanks. Did I leave the tank caps off?
Actually, having trained on pavement, I forgot about
the grass being wet. No wheel pants and so... wet
wings. Then the windscreen fogged up. Glad I
installed a defrost fan. It helped a little, but I
was so steamed from rushing to move the planes, it
went slowly fighting me.
Runup went fine. Seemed like no drop at all between
ignitions. :-) I did it again just to be sure.
Takeoff was very smooth and straight. No wiggles at
all like I had on the pavement practicing in Portland.
Did it all by feel never looking in for airspeed or
RPM. That was a very pleasant surprise. :-)) Thanks
Gerry for making me fly ASAP.
Then, right in front of me and not 20 feet airborne, a
flock of birds decided to launch from off the side of
the runway and block my path. :-( I zoom climbed to
just clear the top one - out climbed them - and looked
in at my ASI for the first time. 40 KIAS! And it felt
very stable! :-))) I estimate I was initially at
55-60 KIAS and traded off 15 or so. First airborne
hurdle jumped. Any higher though and I would have had
to take out a bird or two.
I had maybe 300 feet by the end of the 2,500 ft
runway. Nice! I climbed to 1500' or 700 AGL to turn
downwind and set up 80 KIAS with a safe distance from
the runway to land quickly if I needed to. Now time
for some engine readings. - Gosh this thing drives
like a BMW! :-))) I call for the record keeping to
start. First entry 80 KIAS. Fiddle with the prop
control to lower RPM and EGT. 1500, dropped to 1400
egt. Looks good enough to read the rest of the gages.
Hey, what's that. About a cup of oil on the right
side floor boards! Oil streaming across the bottom
half of the right door! Oil on my checklist on the
right seat! On my glasses!
I call, "Got an oil leak. Coming back." Looking in
again to check oil temp and pressure. Maybe 50 psi
and 185 degrees. Seems OK, but am I running out of
oil? Best set up for an engine out landing. Maybe
that braded line broke...
Looking outside, where the heck is the airport? That
thing is always hard to find. Turn back to find it.
Looks just like any other farm field. I'm lost! Call
ground for a spot. Yes, pointed right at the field.
Flashing headlights. Ah ha! I am at a high 90. Good
enough to glide if I need to. Wip it over and come on
down. Trim for 60 Kias. Gosh, except for the oil
"leak", this flies really nice. Wish I had time to
enjoy it. Darn.
Slip a little to land.... Used maybe 1200' due to
still a bit fast. Really didn't know the stall speed
yet so I'll accept fast. Three bounces landing up
hill. :-( Heck, I was lined up and just wanted to
get it on the ground at that point. I'll take it.
Taxi back with oil pressure. I had every light on by
then. It was going to be a short flight anyway. I
think I only had 10 official minutes to spare, but
then I am a night freight pilot, so it twern't
nuttin', but you gotta be legal.
For the next 4 hours, my galfriend and I field
stripped the plane to remove about a 1/2 qt of oil
inside and out. Seats, floor boards, cargo deck, all
had to come out. Wow it was a mess...
Where'd it come from? Was I close to an engine
seizer? Whew, only about 1 quart low like yesterday.
Seems to be that darn oil breather again. Blew out
the oil I added. Can't find any leaks, but 4 oz in
the 11 oz overflow tank and apparently oil blasting
out of the top of it to cover the firewall. My cowl
is definately pressurized. The oil was forced around
the blanket and into the cockpit. Gosh, what a mess,
instrument panel on down.
Summary. It ran very well. Flew even better than I
ever expected. Me too for my first flight in it.
Everything worked, but some things need tweaking. And
then there is that pesky oil breather! Think I need
to run a quart low all the time and put in a better
overflow system. So, pant pant, first flight done in
a rush. Not as planned, but done. Glad I wore the
Nomex suit just in case. Glad I had the experience to
think thru it and just fly the plane. It would have
been tragic to mess up a perfectly good but real oily
plane. Thanks to the Corps for teaching me to be my
best under pressure. Thanks to Gerry for showing me
that it would fly fine and to trust my KF to get me
back. Now to do the rest of the testing at a more
measured pace.
By the time we got the oil off of it, it was too late
to call my dad anyway.
Kurt S.
__________________________________
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