Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:47 AM - Re: Fuel for Sub EA81 with Ellison TBI (Howard Firm)
2. 04:30 AM - REPLY -- Fuel Levels -- Wing Tanks ()
3. 04:30 AM - carb adjustments (dmorisse)
4. 04:41 AM - Re: Series 6 Trim Indicator (dmorisse)
5. 05:23 AM - Re: carb adjustments (Logan, Michael CIV)
6. 06:06 AM - Re: Re: Goodbye "kitfox@sportflight.com". (Ed Veneck)
7. 06:20 AM - Re: Re: Goodbye "kitfox@sportflight.com". (Gary Algate)
8. 07:31 AM - Re: Series 6 Trim Indicator (John E. King)
9. 07:34 AM - Re: Series 6 Trim Indicator (Allan Arthur)
10. 07:39 AM - Re: Series 6 Trim Indicator (Peter Graichen)
11. 07:49 AM - Re: Series 6 Trim Indicator (John E. King)
12. 07:52 AM - Re: Re: Goodbye "kitfox@sportflight.com". (Don Pearsall)
13. 07:53 AM - Re: Series 6 Trim Indicator (John E. King)
14. 07:59 AM - Re: Series 6 Trim Indicator (John E. King)
15. 08:01 AM - Re: Series 6 Trim Indicator (John E. King)
16. 08:29 AM - Re: carb adjustments (kitfoxpilot@att.net)
17. 08:39 AM - Re: Re: Goodbye "kitfox@sportflight.com". (Ed Veneck)
18. 08:56 AM - Re: Series 6 Trim Indicator (Jim Crockett)
19. 09:00 AM - Re: Looking for a left side flaperon (Sjyale@aol.com)
20. 09:11 AM - Re: Series 6 Trim Indicator (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
21. 09:27 AM - Re: Series 6 Trim Indicator (Clifford Begnaud)
22. 10:30 AM - archive etiquette (Ron Carroll)
23. 11:40 AM - Re: Series 6 Trim Indicator (John E. King)
24. 11:55 AM - trim indicator (Alberto Barba)
25. 05:08 PM - Re: Series 6 Trim Indicator (JMCBEAN)
26. 05:10 PM - Re: Re: My first "test" flight (JMCBEAN)
27. 10:57 PM - Re: carb adjustments (jimshumaker)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel for Sub EA81 with Ellison TBI |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" <pianome2@mchsi.com>
High octane auto is fine,,, just make sure that it is ethanol free. In my
region (Northern Minnesota) the Phillips 66 unleaded high octane was the
fuel that I used. You can get the fuel info from the station (ask the
manager).
Howard Firm
508 12th St. South
Virginia MN 55792
----- Original Message -----
From: "cnichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel for Sub EA81 with Ellison TBI
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "cnichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
>
> In reading the literature I received when I just purchased a Kitfox Model
IV with a Subaru EA81 engine equipped with an Ellison Throttle Body
Injection system, I've become a little confused about the proper fuel to
use. At one place it says the engine can be run on 93 octane unleaded auto
fuel, and at another location (Ellison's literature), it says to avoid the
use of automobile fuel. Obviously there's a big difference in price as well
as availability. Can anyone with the above setup give me some input?
>
> Clem Nichols
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | REPLY -- Fuel Levels -- Wing Tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <barryehuston@earthlink.net>
Jeff & Lowell
Thanks for the Info.
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: FW: Fuel Levels -- Wing Tanks
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com>
>
> Barry,
> On my last annual when I drained the tanks I made a dipstick. I first put
in
> 4 gallons, then 2 gallon increments until it showed about a half inch from
> the top. The aircraft was in a three point attitude. I filled it one half
> inch from the top because it seeps out on the wing if filled to the top.
> Anyway, what I found was that in reality I have 14 gallons because of what
> is in the header tank. Jeff Puls Classic IV Orient, Ohio
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: FW: Fuel Levels -- Wing Tanks
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall"
> <donpearsall@comcast.net>
> >
> > Sent to old list
> > Don
> > __________________________________
> >
> > From: <barryehuston@earthlink.net>
> > To: <kitfox@sportflight.com>
> > Subject: Fuel Levels -- Wing Tanks
> > Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:36:05 -0500
> >
> > Has anyone made a Fuel Level -- Calibrated Dip Stick for the Model IV
13
> > Gal Wing Tanks?? If so would appreciate the info.
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> > Barry
> >
> >
> > Barry E Huston
> > 30 South Shore Road
> > P O Box 182
> > Center Ossipee, NH 03814
> >
> > (603) 539-5569 home
> > (603) 539-8101 fax (pls call first)
> >
> > (603) 630-0101 cell
> >
> > barryehuston@earthlink.net
> >
> >
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | carb adjustments |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dmorisse" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Bounced, sent to old List.
Darrel
List Janitor
Tue, 18 Nov 2003 02:40:50 +0000
From: kitfoxpilot@att.net
Subject: Carb Adjustments
Is there anyone in or close to the Wash DC metro area that could assist me
in
proper carb adjustments for my 912S. I did the mech sync but my idle is
way
too high! I do have the guages to hook up to the carbs and make the
adjustments while engine is running, but could use the help of an expert.
Anyone?
Ray Gignac
(301) 518-2262
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Series 6 Trim Indicator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dmorisse" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
> My question is; has anyone else observed such a phenomena with this type
> of trim indicator? 300 hours is not a very long time, although I always
> use the stabilizer trim as I fly. Replacing the conduit will not be
> easy, since it travels almost the entire length of the fuselage. I
> don't want to do it again in another 300 hours. I may have to come up
> with another type of conduit, but since I have not actually located the
> problem, that may not be the best solution. Any long time Series 5 or 6
> drivers out there with over 300 hours and a functioning trim indicator?
> John King
> Warrenton, VA
John, I never liked the setup from the beginning so I just left it out.
During preflight I just ensure the trim is set for takeoff and after that
no indicator is necessary as it's all done by feel. Never had a problem
with it.
Darrel
S5
Message 5
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| Subject: | carb adjustments |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Logan, Michael CIV" <Michael.Logan@dtra.mil>
Ray,
It sounds like you might have the cables just a tad too short. You might
try contacting Jerry Eastman, he has done a lot of work on 912's and also
provides the kit to increase the power of the standard 912. He also knows
other 912 people in the area. He has a web site at www.masterkraft.com.
The web site has his phone number. He is a fast Pulsar flyer (we will
forgive him for that, he flew my wife's pulsar on its first flight.)
Mike Logan
-----Original Message-----
From: dmorisse [mailto:morid@northland.lib.mi.us]
Subject: Kitfox-List: carb adjustments
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dmorisse" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Bounced, sent to old List.
Darrel
List Janitor
Tue, 18 Nov 2003 02:40:50 +0000
From: kitfoxpilot@att.net
Subject: Carb Adjustments
Is there anyone in or close to the Wash DC metro area that could assist me
in
proper carb adjustments for my 912S. I did the mech sync but my idle is
way
too high! I do have the guages to hook up to the carbs and make the
adjustments while engine is running, but could use the help of an expert.
Anyone?
Ray Gignac
(301) 518-2262
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ed Veneck <edveneck@yahoo.com>
I was out for a few weeks, so my e-mail filled up and
I just deleted everything and started over.
What do I need to do to sign-up on the new list?
Ed
--- "Paul A. Franz, P.E." <paul@eucleides.com> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul A. Franz,
> P.E." <paul@eucleides.com>
>
> On Mon, 2003-11-17 at 14:10, dmorisse wrote:
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dmorisse"
> <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
> >
> > You're most welcome Torgeir. Still a few
> stragglers, but things are
> > smoothing out nicely.
> > Darrel and Don
> > List Janitors
>
> And the new list is beautiful. No more html postings
> since the tags ares
> being stripped so no tiny little pink writing or
> something odd to read.
> All the winmail.dats and vcards and other mail
> relics are deleted, no MS
> Mail "quoted printable" relics. The list is so nice
> now. I wish it had
> had this upgrade years ago.
>
> Thanks a lot guys for choosing up to date software
> on a reliable system.
>
> --
> PAF Consulting Engineers | 427 - 140th Ave NE
> (425)641-8202 voice | Bellevue, WA 98005
> (425)641-1773 fax |
> <mailto:paul@eucleides.com>
> GnuPG Public Key -
> <http://eucleides.com/pgpkey.asc>
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Just my 2 bob's worth - the new list is great. I posted some photos
yesterday just to try it out and this morning I received a notice that the
photos were posted and available to the list. Only thing that I found a bit
confusing was when you click on the photo link it appears to just take you
back to the previous page. However after a few tries I realised that the you
have to scroll down the second page to see the photos.
Great job
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Series 6 Trim Indicator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
Rick,
The spring indicator works just fine. I disconnected the cable and was
able to move it back and forth to get the proper readings. The
electrical trim jack screw works fine also. The problem is in the cable
connection somewhere. It cannot take a load on the cable without binding.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Rick wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
>
>Almost 600 hours and still working fine. I use it always. I would take it
>loose at the horz stab and see what it does. That way you can eliminate the
>cable being the problem. I would think its most likely the spring indicator
>just gave up.
>
>Rick
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Series 6 Trim Indicator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Allan Arthur" <alnan@earthlink.net>
John,
I never installed the trim indicator in my Series 5. Instead I installed
a rear view mirror and marked the vertical stablizer for take-off trim.
I trim off stick pressure in flight.
Allan Arthur
N40AA Series 5 Taildragger (100 Hours)
912 ULS, Warp Drive 3 blade prop
Martinez, CA (Byron Airport, Hanger C8)
----------
>From: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
> To the Series 5 and 6 Drivers,
>
> I now have 300 hours on my Series 6 and just noticed that the trim
> indicator on the center console does not change when the electric trim
> system is running.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Series 6 Trim Indicator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Peter Graichen" <n10pg@neo.rr.com>
Hi John:
About 700 hrs ago mine did the same. I replaced the whole shebang (?) with
bicycle brake Bowden cable components from my local bike shop. I paid good
attention to proper alignment where the cable exits the sheath and attaches
to the horizontal stabilizer mechanism. I retained the ribbon indicator that
came with the kit from SkyStar. Has been working flawlessly now for several
years.
Best regards
Peter Graichen
http://home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John E. King
Subject: Kitfox-List: Series 6 Trim Indicator
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
To the Series 5 and 6 Drivers,
I now have 300 hours on my Series 6 and just noticed that the trim
indicator on the center console does not change when the electric trim
system is running. The electric trim system is functioning properly.
The trim indicator on the Series 6 (I assume the Series 5 is the same)
is fully mechanical in that there is a steel cable inside a Tygron type
conduit connecting the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer to the
trim indicator in the center console. The trim indicator itself is a
coiled flat ribbon steel spring with a calibrated scale that shows the
degree of up or down elevator position.
I disconnected both ends and found that the steel cable inside the
conduit moved freely, but when a load like the trim indicator coil
spring was applied it started to bind. Lubricating the conduit LPS1 did
not relieve the problem. I inspected the brass connectors on both ends
of the conduit and could not see any significant ware. I could only
inspect about three feet of the conduit at each end before it
disappeared into the fuselage. No visible ware or damage was noticed in
the areas I could inspect. It is a very simple system so there isn't
very much that could go wrong. I suspect that somewhere along its
length the braided steel cable has cut a grove in the conduit and will
not move freely under a normal load.
My question is; has anyone else observed such a phenomena with this type
of trim indicator? 300 hours is not a very long time, although I always
use the stabilizer trim as I fly. Replacing the conduit will not be
easy, since it travels almost the entire length of the fuselage. I
don't want to do it again in another 300 hours. I may have to come up
with another type of conduit, but since I have not actually located the
problem, that may not be the best solution. Any long time Series 5 or 6
drivers out there with over 300 hours and a functioning trim indicator?
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Series 6 Trim Indicator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
Alan,
I know the trim indicator system is placing a heavy load on the
stabilizer when it binds and right now I have disconnected the trim
indicator cable from the stabilizer. I will fly without an indicator
until some time I can come up with a better cable system that will not
bind. The spring loaded indicator itself is not the problem. It is my
feeling that the braided cable itself acts like a hack saw on the parts
it comes in contact with over time. Based on what I am hearing here,
this design has a limited useful life and should be discontinued before
it migrates into a stabilizer trim control problem. When the trim
indicator control cable binds, it places a very heavy load on the trim
system jack screw.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Alan Blind wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Alan Blind" <alanblind@hotmail.com>
>
>I have 900 hours on a five with a non-functioning trim indicator. I
>disconnected it at the horizontal stabilizer end about 600 hours ago. I
>found the attach point at the stabilizer would bend under the load from the
>spring load and the cable binding in the tube and at the brass ends.
>
>John, yours must be bending also. If the cable is not moving, but the trim
>position is, the attach bracket must be bending.
>
>Alan Blind
>N61AB
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
>To: "Kitfox List" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Series 6 Trim Indicator
>
>
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
>>
>>To the Series 5 and 6 Drivers,
>>
>>I now have 300 hours on my Series 6 and just noticed that the trim
>>indicator on the center console does not change when the electric trim
>>system is running. The electric trim system is functioning properly.
>>The trim indicator on the Series 6 (I assume the Series 5 is the same)
>>is fully mechanical in that there is a steel cable inside a Tygron type
>>conduit connecting the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer to the
>>trim indicator in the center console. The trim indicator itself is a
>>coiled flat ribbon steel spring with a calibrated scale that shows the
>>degree of up or down elevator position.
>>
>>I disconnected both ends and found that the steel cable inside the
>>conduit moved freely, but when a load like the trim indicator coil
>>spring was applied it started to bind. Lubricating the conduit LPS1 did
>>not relieve the problem. I inspected the brass connectors on both ends
>>of the conduit and could not see any significant ware. I could only
>>inspect about three feet of the conduit at each end before it
>>disappeared into the fuselage. No visible ware or damage was noticed in
>>the areas I could inspect. It is a very simple system so there isn't
>>very much that could go wrong. I suspect that somewhere along its
>>length the braided steel cable has cut a grove in the conduit and will
>>not move freely under a normal load.
>>
>>My question is; has anyone else observed such a phenomena with this type
>>of trim indicator? 300 hours is not a very long time, although I always
>>use the stabilizer trim as I fly. Replacing the conduit will not be
>>easy, since it travels almost the entire length of the fuselage. I
>>don't want to do it again in another 300 hours. I may have to come up
>>with another type of conduit, but since I have not actually located the
>>problem, that may not be the best solution. Any long time Series 5 or 6
>>drivers out there with over 300 hours and a functioning trim indicator?
>>
>>--
>>John King
>>Warrenton, VA
>>
>>
>>
Message 12
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Ed, You ARE on the new list. Check the new email address you replied to.
Don Pearsall
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Series 6 Trim Indicator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
Cliff,
Is the Series 5 trim system indicator the same design as that of the
Series 6? I am specifically talking about the trim indicator, not the
trim system.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Clifford Begnaud wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
>
>John,
>1000 hours and ours still works.
>Cliff
>two model 5's
>Erie, CO
>
>
>To the Series 5 and 6 Drivers,
>
>I now have 300 hours on my Series 6 and just noticed that the trim
>indicator on the center console does not change when the electric trim
>system is running. The electric trim system is functioning properly.
>The trim indicator on the Series 6 (I assume the Series 5 is the same)
>is fully mechanical in that there is a steel cable inside a Tygron type
>conduit connecting the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer to the
>trim indicator in the center console. The trim indicator itself is a
>coiled flat ribbon steel spring with a calibrated scale that shows the
>degree of up or down elevator position.
>
>I disconnected both ends and found that the steel cable inside the
>conduit moved freely, but when a load like the trim indicator coil
>spring was applied it started to bind. Lubricating the conduit LPS1 did
>not relieve the problem. I inspected the brass connectors on both ends
>of the conduit and could not see any significant ware. I could only
>inspect about three feet of the conduit at each end before it
>disappeared into the fuselage. No visible ware or damage was noticed in
>the areas I could inspect. It is a very simple system so there isn't
>very much that could go wrong. I suspect that somewhere along its
>length the braided steel cable has cut a grove in the conduit and will
>not move freely under a normal load.
>
>My question is; has anyone else observed such a phenomena with this type
>of trim indicator? 300 hours is not a very long time, although I always
>use the stabilizer trim as I fly. Replacing the conduit will not be
>easy, since it travels almost the entire length of the fuselage. I
>don't want to do it again in another 300 hours. I may have to come up
>with another type of conduit, but since I have not actually located the
>problem, that may not be the best solution. Any long time Series 5 or 6
>drivers out there with over 300 hours and a functioning trim indicator?
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Series 6 Trim Indicator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
Dan,
Great to hear from you again. That is exactly what I am doing now,
except I have a rear view merrier that can see the horizontal stabilizer
position. Your right, in that the only time you really need the trim
indicator is just before takeoff.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
VFT@aol.com wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: VFT@aol.com
>
>Hi John
>I never could get the indicator to function consistently in 24ZM. I removed
>the entire system and put a mark on the vertical stab fairing for take off trim
>position. Easy to look over my shoulder and set for take off. I added a note
>inside the indicator that says "look back" and amended the take off check list
>so everything is legal:)
>
>Danny Melnik
>F1 #25
>Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory
>N24ZM still for sale to a good home
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Series 6 Trim Indicator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
John,
I would appreciate that very much.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
John Anderson wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
>
>
>John, I can send you a picture/s of my electronic indicator if you wish, works
great and real simple.
>
>
>-j-
>
>
>From: "John E. King " <KINGJOHN@EROLS.COM>
>To: Kitfox List <KITFOX-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Series 6 Trim Indicator
>Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:09:47 -0500
>
>-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <KINGJOHN@EROLS.COM>
>
>To the Series 5 and 6 Drivers,
>
>I now have 300 hours on my Series 6 and just noticed that the trim
>indicator on the center console does not change when the electric trim
>system is running. The electric trim system is functioning properly.
>The trim indicator on the Series 6 (I assume the Series 5 is the same)
>is fully mechanical in that there is a steel cable inside a Tygron type
>conduit connecting the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer to the
>trim indicator in the center console. The trim indicator itself is a
>coiled flat ribbon steel spring with a calibrated scale that shows the
>degree of up or down elevator position.
>
>I disconnected both ends and found that the steel cable inside the
>conduit moved freely, but when a load like the trim indicator coil
>spring was applied it started to bind. Lubricating the conduit LPS1 did
>not relieve the problem. I inspected the brass connectors on both ends
>of the conduit and could not see any significant ware. I could only
>inspect about three feet of the conduit at each end before it
>disappeared into the fuselage. No visible ware or damage was noticed in
>the areas I could inspect. It is a very simple system so there isn't
>very much that could go wrong. I suspect that somewhere along its
>length the braided steel cable has cut a grove in the conduit and will
>not move freely under a normal load.
>
>My question is; has anyone else observed such a phenomena with this type
>of trim indicator? 300 hours is not a very long time, although I always
>use the stabilizer trim as I fly. Replacing the conduit will not be
>easy, since it travels almost the entire length of the fuselage. I
>don't want to do it again in another 300 hours. I may have to come up
>with another type of conduit, but since I have not actually located the
>problem, that may not be the best solution. Any long time Series 5 or 6
>drivers out there with over 300 hours and a functioning trim indicator?
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | carb adjustments |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxpilot@att.net
Thanks Mike,
I will call him about settings for the 912S. My Kitfox is ready to fly, but
I need to get some tail time. My plane experience is with 172's. Thanks
again.
Ray Gignac, N2BH
Second Owner
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Logan, Michael CIV"
> <Michael.Logan@dtra.mil>
>
> Ray,
>
> It sounds like you might have the cables just a tad too short. You might
> try contacting Jerry Eastman, he has done a lot of work on 912's and also
> provides the kit to increase the power of the standard 912. He also knows
> other 912 people in the area. He has a web site at www.masterkraft.com.
> The web site has his phone number. He is a fast Pulsar flyer (we will
> forgive him for that, he flew my wife's pulsar on its first flight.)
>
> Mike Logan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dmorisse [mailto:morid@northland.lib.mi.us]
> To: Kitfox List
> Subject: Kitfox-List: carb adjustments
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dmorisse" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
> Bounced, sent to old List.
> Darrel
> List Janitor
>
> Tue, 18 Nov 2003 02:40:50 +0000
> From: kitfoxpilot@att.net
> To: Kitfox@sportflight.com
> Subject: Carb Adjustments
> Is there anyone in or close to the Wash DC metro area that could assist me
> in
> proper carb adjustments for my 912S. I did the mech sync but my idle is
> way
> too high! I do have the guages to hook up to the carbs and make the
> adjustments while engine is running, but could use the help of an expert.
> Anyone?
> Ray Gignac
> (301) 518-2262
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ed Veneck <edveneck@yahoo.com>
10-4
Thanks
Ed
--- Don Pearsall <donpearsall@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall"
> <donpearsall@comcast.net>
>
> Ed, You ARE on the new list. Check the new email
> address you replied to.
>
> Don Pearsall
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Series 6 Trim Indicator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Crockett <jimc@cybrquest.com>
John -
This sounds like a classic case of the conduit (plastic tubing) not being
adequately supported. As I'm sure you know, if the tubing is not
restrained at several points, then the trim motor moves the cable and the
tube at the same time with no movement in the end point. Maybe over time
your tie points to the tubing have loosened, stretched, or otherwise are
failing to prevent the tubing from moving.
Jim Crockett
At 06:09 PM 11/17/2003, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
>
>To the Series 5 and 6 Drivers,
>
>I now have 300 hours on my Series 6 and just noticed that the trim
>indicator on the center console does not change when the electric trim
>system is running. The electric trim system is functioning properly.
>The trim indicator on the Series 6 (I assume the Series 5 is the same)
>is fully mechanical in that there is a steel cable inside a Tygron type
>conduit connecting the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer to the
>trim indicator in the center console. The trim indicator itself is a
>coiled flat ribbon steel spring with a calibrated scale that shows the
>degree of up or down elevator position.
>
>I disconnected both ends and found that the steel cable inside the
>conduit moved freely, but when a load like the trim indicator coil
>spring was applied it started to bind. Lubricating the conduit LPS1 did
>not relieve the problem. I inspected the brass connectors on both ends
>of the conduit and could not see any significant ware. I could only
>inspect about three feet of the conduit at each end before it
>disappeared into the fuselage. No visible ware or damage was noticed in
>the areas I could inspect. It is a very simple system so there isn't
>very much that could go wrong. I suspect that somewhere along its
>length the braided steel cable has cut a grove in the conduit and will
>not move freely under a normal load.
>
>My question is; has anyone else observed such a phenomena with this type
>of trim indicator? 300 hours is not a very long time, although I always
>use the stabilizer trim as I fly. Replacing the conduit will not be
>easy, since it travels almost the entire length of the fuselage. I
>don't want to do it again in another 300 hours. I may have to come up
>with another type of conduit, but since I have not actually located the
>problem, that may not be the best solution. Any long time Series 5 or 6
>drivers out there with over 300 hours and a functioning trim indicator?
>
>--
>John King
>Warrenton, VA
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for a left side flaperon |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Sjyale@aol.com
I have a left side flaperon for a series 5 that I will not be using.
Contact me off list sjyale@aol.com Livermore CA. Jim
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Series 6 Trim Indicator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
I now have 300 hours on my Series 6 and just noticed that the trim
>indicator on the center console does not change when the electric trim
>system is running. The electric trim system is functioning properly.
>The trim indicator on the Series 6 (I assume the Series 5 is the same)
>is fully mechanical in that there is a steel cable inside a Tygron type
>conduit connecting the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer to the
I have available nylon tubing which slides inside nylon tubing, similar to
that used in model aircraft control systems. I have it in hundreds of feet,
easy to adjust etc. John King, this is the same material used in flap sensing
mechanism.
Contact off list if interested.
Elbie
EM Aviation
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Series 6 Trim Indicator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
I think it's the same, but not sure. Ask John M.
Cliff
Cliff,
Is the Series 5 trim system indicator the same design as that of the
Series 6? I am specifically talking about the trim indicator, not the
trim system.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Clifford Begnaud wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
<shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
>
>John,
>1000 hours and ours still works.
>Cliff
>two model 5's
>Erie, CO
>
>
>To the Series 5 and 6 Drivers,
>
>I now have 300 hours on my Series 6 and just noticed that the trim
>indicator on the center console does not change when the electric trim
>system is running. The electric trim system is functioning properly.
>The trim indicator on the Series 6 (I assume the Series 5 is the same)
>is fully mechanical in that there is a steel cable inside a Tygron type
>conduit connecting the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer to the
>trim indicator in the center console. The trim indicator itself is a
>coiled flat ribbon steel spring with a calibrated scale that shows the
>degree of up or down elevator position.
>
>I disconnected both ends and found that the steel cable inside the
>conduit moved freely, but when a load like the trim indicator coil
>spring was applied it started to bind. Lubricating the conduit LPS1 did
>not relieve the problem. I inspected the brass connectors on both ends
>of the conduit and could not see any significant ware. I could only
>inspect about three feet of the conduit at each end before it
>disappeared into the fuselage. No visible ware or damage was noticed in
>the areas I could inspect. It is a very simple system so there isn't
>very much that could go wrong. I suspect that somewhere along its
>length the braided steel cable has cut a grove in the conduit and will
>not move freely under a normal load.
>
>My question is; has anyone else observed such a phenomena with this type
>of trim indicator? 300 hours is not a very long time, although I always
>use the stabilizer trim as I fly. Replacing the conduit will not be
>easy, since it travels almost the entire length of the fuselage. I
>don't want to do it again in another 300 hours. I may have to come up
>with another type of conduit, but since I have not actually located the
>problem, that may not be the best solution. Any long time Series 5 or 6
>drivers out there with over 300 hours and a functioning trim indicator?
>
>
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | archive etiquette |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Carroll" <RonCarr@Qwest.Net>
Apparently some now on our new Matronics list are not aware of the "do not archive"
phrase used to prevent trivial messages from taking up space in the archives.
Below is the portion of the FAQ list that mentions this.
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to
a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to
archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to
List
email distribution as normal.
Ron Carroll
Oregon, USA
RonCarr@Qwest.Net
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Series 6 Trim Indicator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
Peter,
Good to hear from you again. Saw you and your wife last at Oshkosh.
Very interesting solution, will have to look into that. Did you have
any trouble installing the Bowden cable inside the fuselage where it is
difficult to get to?
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Peter Graichen wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Peter Graichen" <n10pg@neo.rr.com>
>
>Hi John:
>
>About 700 hrs ago mine did the same. I replaced the whole shebang (?) with
>bicycle brake Bowden cable components from my local bike shop. I paid good
>attention to proper alignment where the cable exits the sheath and attaches
>to the horizontal stabilizer mechanism. I retained the ribbon indicator that
>came with the kit from SkyStar. Has been working flawlessly now for several
>years.
>Best regards
>Peter Graichen
>http://home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John E. King
>To: Kitfox List
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Series 6 Trim Indicator
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
>
>To the Series 5 and 6 Drivers,
>
>I now have 300 hours on my Series 6 and just noticed that the trim
>indicator on the center console does not change when the electric trim
>system is running. The electric trim system is functioning properly.
>The trim indicator on the Series 6 (I assume the Series 5 is the same)
>is fully mechanical in that there is a steel cable inside a Tygron type
>conduit connecting the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer to the
>trim indicator in the center console. The trim indicator itself is a
>coiled flat ribbon steel spring with a calibrated scale that shows the
>degree of up or down elevator position.
>
>I disconnected both ends and found that the steel cable inside the
>conduit moved freely, but when a load like the trim indicator coil
>spring was applied it started to bind. Lubricating the conduit LPS1 did
>not relieve the problem. I inspected the brass connectors on both ends
>of the conduit and could not see any significant ware. I could only
>inspect about three feet of the conduit at each end before it
>disappeared into the fuselage. No visible ware or damage was noticed in
>the areas I could inspect. It is a very simple system so there isn't
>very much that could go wrong. I suspect that somewhere along its
>length the braided steel cable has cut a grove in the conduit and will
>not move freely under a normal load.
>
>My question is; has anyone else observed such a phenomena with this type
>of trim indicator? 300 hours is not a very long time, although I always
>use the stabilizer trim as I fly. Replacing the conduit will not be
>easy, since it travels almost the entire length of the fuselage. I
>don't want to do it again in another 300 hours. I may have to come up
>with another type of conduit, but since I have not actually located the
>problem, that may not be the best solution. Any long time Series 5 or 6
>drivers out there with over 300 hours and a functioning trim indicator?
>
>--
>John King
>Warrenton, VA
>
>
>
Message 24
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Alberto Barba" <ambarba@infosel.net.mx>
John same problem Im working in electronic indicator
Alberto Barba
Serie 6 282 Hrs.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Series 6 Trim Indicator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN@cableone.net>
The trim indicator is the same for the 5 and 6. I simply put a mark on the
vertical for takeoff position.... Other then that the trim is done by feel
anyway.
I think the cable slips... that what had happened on the Series 6.....
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Clifford Begnaud
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Series 6 Trim Indicator
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
<shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
I think it's the same, but not sure. Ask John M.
Cliff
Cliff,
Is the Series 5 trim system indicator the same design as that of the
Series 6? I am specifically talking about the trim indicator, not the
trim system.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Clifford Begnaud wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
<shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
>
>John,
>1000 hours and ours still works.
>Cliff
>two model 5's
>Erie, CO
>
>
>To the Series 5 and 6 Drivers,
>
>I now have 300 hours on my Series 6 and just noticed that the trim
>indicator on the center console does not change when the electric trim
>system is running. The electric trim system is functioning properly.
>The trim indicator on the Series 6 (I assume the Series 5 is the same)
>is fully mechanical in that there is a steel cable inside a Tygron type
>conduit connecting the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer to the
>trim indicator in the center console. The trim indicator itself is a
>coiled flat ribbon steel spring with a calibrated scale that shows the
>degree of up or down elevator position.
>
>I disconnected both ends and found that the steel cable inside the
>conduit moved freely, but when a load like the trim indicator coil
>spring was applied it started to bind. Lubricating the conduit LPS1 did
>not relieve the problem. I inspected the brass connectors on both ends
>of the conduit and could not see any significant ware. I could only
>inspect about three feet of the conduit at each end before it
>disappeared into the fuselage. No visible ware or damage was noticed in
>the areas I could inspect. It is a very simple system so there isn't
>very much that could go wrong. I suspect that somewhere along its
>length the braided steel cable has cut a grove in the conduit and will
>not move freely under a normal load.
>
>My question is; has anyone else observed such a phenomena with this type
>of trim indicator? 300 hours is not a very long time, although I always
>use the stabilizer trim as I fly. Replacing the conduit will not be
>easy, since it travels almost the entire length of the fuselage. I
>don't want to do it again in another 300 hours. I may have to come up
>with another type of conduit, but since I have not actually located the
>problem, that may not be the best solution. Any long time Series 5 or 6
>drivers out there with over 300 hours and a functioning trim indicator?
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: My first "test" flight |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN@cableone.net>
Jared,
Are you the one that had an issue with the model 2 or 3 flaperon ??
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jareds
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: My first "test" flight
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@bellatlantic.net>
Kurt,
:Congratulations!! Exciting isnt it?
Sounds like you had a contingency plan and had thought through most
aspects which is whats most important. So many first flight scenarios
offered. My brain was wiped after having memorized each test flight and
especially the first. My first did not go as planned either and could
have been planned even more thoroughly. But after a somewhat
disasterous first flight, my next (a few months later) was great and
before you know it the test flight time is
over................................and then when you think testing is
done, you still have more testing to do...............thats what makes
it all so fun!
kurt schrader wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
>If you all remember, I got my tailwheel sign-off
>Thursday out in Portland, OR. I planned to get more
>time in the local club's Citabra and Champ before
>flying my KF, but my friend/instructor told me to fly
>mine ASAP. He said those others just aren't "high
>performance" planes and I needed to stay with what he
>taught me. But since returning to KY, the wx has been
>pretty bad. Certainly not first flight wx.
>
>I was also worried about not having my plane insured.
>Couldn't seem to get that without at least 10, and
>better yet, 20 hrs of tailwheel time. And they wanted
>it in the same series KF with the same engine! Heck,
>how many KF-5 tail draggers are out there with an NSI
>turbo who want to instruct?
>
>Yesterday it rained and was windy. I fiddled with a
>small oil seep from my friends first flight in my
>plane. Braded oil line going into the cooler. It was
>almost a quart low too. I stuck in half a quart due
>to the oil running hot in flight. A little more oil
>to absorbe the heat I thought. Then I left it like
>that with the cowl off and did an engine run. No
>leaks, but it ran cold. Needed radiator tape. I'll
>do that Sunday...
>
>Well, today the weather lifted enough in the afternoon
>for me to get in a short flight. Thought about it and
>decided that I'd just go for it so I could call my dad
>and let him know. No guts - no glory. 2,800
>overcast, but light winds and in the 40's. Good for
>my hot running oil temp. Then the "little" problems
>came up....
>
>I had about 4 gal, plus the header fuel on board, so I
>went to the gas station to get 5 more gal to give me a
>comfort factor for the flight. Darn, the fuel pumped
>so slowly I pulled the pump handle out for a look.
>Foam, suds, squirt, cough, cough. The stations tank
>must be near empty. Ok, that stuff will go in my van
>instead. No telling what is coming out of the bottom
>of the tank. Definately not first flight juice!
>
>And now it was getting too late to get more gas
>elsewhere, so the flight will just have to be shorter.
> Maybe just a few takeoffs and landings. I still had
>to put the cowl back on and move planes out of the
>hangar to get at mine... Plus a few little things to
>do, like tape off some of the radiator due to the temp
>drop.
>
>Well, I did get it ready with maybe 20 minutes of
>daylight left. Started ok. Taxi was interesting.
>Soon the bottom of the wings on both sides were wet
>just below the tanks. Did I leave the tank caps off?
>Actually, having trained on pavement, I forgot about
>the grass being wet. No wheel pants and so... wet
>wings. Then the windscreen fogged up. Glad I
>installed a defrost fan. It helped a little, but I
>was so steamed from rushing to move the planes, it
>went slowly fighting me.
>
>Runup went fine. Seemed like no drop at all between
>ignitions. :-) I did it again just to be sure.
>
>Takeoff was very smooth and straight. No wiggles at
>all like I had on the pavement practicing in Portland.
> Did it all by feel never looking in for airspeed or
>RPM. That was a very pleasant surprise. :-)) Thanks
>Gerry for making me fly ASAP.
>
>Then, right in front of me and not 20 feet airborne, a
>flock of birds decided to launch from off the side of
>the runway and block my path. :-( I zoom climbed to
>just clear the top one - out climbed them - and looked
>in at my ASI for the first time. 40 KIAS! And it felt
>very stable! :-))) I estimate I was initially at
>55-60 KIAS and traded off 15 or so. First airborne
>hurdle jumped. Any higher though and I would have had
>to take out a bird or two.
>
>I had maybe 300 feet by the end of the 2,500 ft
>runway. Nice! I climbed to 1500' or 700 AGL to turn
>downwind and set up 80 KIAS with a safe distance from
>the runway to land quickly if I needed to. Now time
>for some engine readings. - Gosh this thing drives
>like a BMW! :-))) I call for the record keeping to
>start. First entry 80 KIAS. Fiddle with the prop
>control to lower RPM and EGT. 1500, dropped to 1400
>egt. Looks good enough to read the rest of the gages.
>
>Hey, what's that. About a cup of oil on the right
>side floor boards! Oil streaming across the bottom
>half of the right door! Oil on my checklist on the
>right seat! On my glasses!
>
>I call, "Got an oil leak. Coming back." Looking in
>again to check oil temp and pressure. Maybe 50 psi
>and 185 degrees. Seems OK, but am I running out of
>oil? Best set up for an engine out landing. Maybe
>that braded line broke...
>
>Looking outside, where the heck is the airport? That
>thing is always hard to find. Turn back to find it.
>Looks just like any other farm field. I'm lost! Call
>ground for a spot. Yes, pointed right at the field.
>Flashing headlights. Ah ha! I am at a high 90. Good
>enough to glide if I need to. Wip it over and come on
>down. Trim for 60 Kias. Gosh, except for the oil
>"leak", this flies really nice. Wish I had time to
>enjoy it. Darn.
>
>Slip a little to land.... Used maybe 1200' due to
>still a bit fast. Really didn't know the stall speed
>yet so I'll accept fast. Three bounces landing up
>hill. :-( Heck, I was lined up and just wanted to
>get it on the ground at that point. I'll take it.
>
>Taxi back with oil pressure. I had every light on by
>then. It was going to be a short flight anyway. I
>think I only had 10 official minutes to spare, but
>then I am a night freight pilot, so it twern't
>nuttin', but you gotta be legal.
>
>For the next 4 hours, my galfriend and I field
>stripped the plane to remove about a 1/2 qt of oil
>inside and out. Seats, floor boards, cargo deck, all
>had to come out. Wow it was a mess...
>
>Where'd it come from? Was I close to an engine
>seizer? Whew, only about 1 quart low like yesterday.
>Seems to be that darn oil breather again. Blew out
>the oil I added. Can't find any leaks, but 4 oz in
>the 11 oz overflow tank and apparently oil blasting
>out of the top of it to cover the firewall. My cowl
>is definately pressurized. The oil was forced around
>the blanket and into the cockpit. Gosh, what a mess,
>instrument panel on down.
>
>Summary. It ran very well. Flew even better than I
>ever expected. Me too for my first flight in it.
>Everything worked, but some things need tweaking. And
>then there is that pesky oil breather! Think I need
>to run a quart low all the time and put in a better
>overflow system. So, pant pant, first flight done in
>a rush. Not as planned, but done. Glad I wore the
>Nomex suit just in case. Glad I had the experience to
>think thru it and just fly the plane. It would have
>been tragic to mess up a perfectly good but real oily
>plane. Thanks to the Corps for teaching me to be my
>best under pressure. Thanks to Gerry for showing me
>that it would fly fine and to trust my KF to get me
>back. Now to do the rest of the testing at a more
>measured pace.
>
>By the time we got the oil off of it, it was too late
>to call my dad anyway.
>
>Kurt S.
>
>__________________________________
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: carb adjustments |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
Ray
You probably need to adjust the stop screws for the throttle cables so that
they can close the butterflys some more. The stop plates are adjusted
evenly and then the cables are adjusted to equal length by using a feeler
gauge between the stop plate and the throttle lever. The idle adjust screws
are turned a turn and a half out from full in. The carb balance gauges are
connected to the hose barbs next to the idle adjust screws. The crossover
tube is blocked between the carbs. (I pull the hose and tape the ends.)
The engine is run and the cables are adjusted for smooth idle by turning the
cable locking nuts in the cockpit tighter or looser to balance the synchro
gauge. The idle adjust screws are turned only if the cable adjustment is
too coarse for evening the synchro gauges.
After the gauges are equal vacuum at idle (between 1800 and 2100 rpm) then
the throttle is opened and the vacuum should drop evenly. The engine is
returned to idle and the gauges should remain the even. This verifies
synchonicity.
The engine is then slowed to minimimum smooth idle. about 1800 rpm. Then
the throttle stops are adjusted to the throttle lever position. This can be
done with the engine off. The throttle is left in the minimum smooth idle
position at engine shutdown and a feeler gauge is placed between the stop
plate and the throttle lever. I use about an 0.008. The stop plate is
advanced to the throttle lever until drag is felt on the feeler. Then the
carb on the other side is adjusted the same way. The feeler gauge used to
limit the movement of the stop plate to the throttle lever. When done
this way the stop plate is not touching on one side and affecting the
adjustment of the stop plate on the other side.
Would help you if you lived a couple thousand miles closer.
Jim Shumaker
----- Original Message -----
From: "dmorisse" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Subject: Kitfox-List: carb adjustments
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dmorisse" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
> Bounced, sent to old List.
> Darrel
> List Janitor
>
> Tue, 18 Nov 2003 02:40:50 +0000
> From: kitfoxpilot@att.net
> To: Kitfox@sportflight.com
> Subject: Carb Adjustments
> Is there anyone in or close to the Wash DC metro area that could assist me
> in
> proper carb adjustments for my 912S. I did the mech sync but my idle is
> way
> too high! I do have the guages to hook up to the carbs and make the
> adjustments while engine is running, but could use the help of an expert.
> Anyone?
> Ray Gignac
> (301) 518-2262
>
>
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