---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/08/03: 64 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:59 AM - Re: Avid skis (michel) 2. 02:12 AM - Re: Now Prop info needed (broschart) 3. 02:12 AM - Re: Bird Strike (broschart) 4. 02:59 AM - Re: Unfriendly ATC (michel) 5. 04:02 AM - Re: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon problrm - Now Pr... (Wwillyard@aol.com) 6. 04:45 AM - Re: Skis (michel) 7. 05:06 AM - Re: Skis (dmorisse) 8. 05:19 AM - Re: Skis (Bob Unternaehrer) 9. 05:19 AM - Re: Avid skis (Bob Unternaehrer) 10. 05:56 AM - Re: Strut covers (Gary Algate) 11. 06:01 AM - Re: Skis (Gary Algate) 12. 06:05 AM - Re: Tailwheel ski WAS: Short flight (Gary Algate) 13. 06:41 AM - Re: Skis (michel) 14. 06:43 AM - Re: Avid skis (michel) 15. 06:45 AM - Re: Re: Strut covers (Vic Jacko) 16. 06:47 AM - Re: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon problrm - Now Pr... (Peter Graichen) 17. 06:50 AM - Re: Skis (michel) 18. 06:50 AM - Re: Skis (Kurt A. Schumacher) 19. 06:51 AM - Re: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon problrm - Now Pr... (Peter Graichen) 20. 06:51 AM - Re: Re: Strut covers (Gary Algate) 21. 06:54 AM - Re: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon problrm - Now Pr... (Peter Graichen) 22. 06:55 AM - Re: Skis (Gary Algate) 23. 07:19 AM - Metars on wireless web () 24. 07:36 AM - Re: Skis (Grant Fluent) 25. 07:49 AM - Re: Skis (Grant Fluent) 26. 08:23 AM - Re: Skis (Randy Daughenbaugh) 27. 08:23 AM - Re: Avid skis (Randy Daughenbaugh) 28. 08:26 AM - Ski photos (Gary Algate) 29. 09:07 AM - Re: First Flight N913KF (W Duke) 30. 10:01 AM - Banks Brothers (Arthur Nation) 31. 10:59 AM - Re: Skis (Kurt A. Schumacher) 32. 11:11 AM - Re: Skis (Kurt A. Schumacher) 33. 11:25 AM - Re: Skis (Michel Verheughe) 34. 11:58 AM - Ski Photos (Gary Algate) 35. 12:00 PM - Re: Avid skis (Michel Verheughe) 36. 12:04 PM - Re: Skis (David & Maria Lumgair) 37. 12:09 PM - Re: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon problrm - Now Pr... (Floran Higgins) 38. 12:15 PM - Re: Skis (Torgeir Mortensen) 39. 12:34 PM - Re: Subject (Gary Algate) 40. 12:42 PM - Re: Ski Photos (Torgeir Mortensen) 41. 12:46 PM - Re: Skis (Randy Daughenbaugh) 42. 12:57 PM - Re: Ski Photos (Gary Algate) 43. 01:10 PM - Skis (Gary Algate) 44. 01:25 PM - Swiss skis (Michel Verheughe) 45. 02:02 PM - Re: Ski Photos (Michel Verheughe) 46. 02:09 PM - OT: Up north WAS: Skis (Michel Verheughe) 47. 02:09 PM - Re: Subject (Don Pearsall) 48. 02:13 PM - Re: Swiss skis (Kurt A. Schumacher) 49. 02:20 PM - Skystar's lift strut streamlining? (Steve M) 50. 02:38 PM - Re: Skystar's lift strut streamlining? (flier) 51. 02:45 PM - Re: Banks Brothers (NSI AERO) 52. 02:48 PM - Re: Skystar's lift strut streamlining? (Torgeir Mortensen) 53. 04:10 PM - Re: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon problrm - Now Pr... (Rick) 54. 04:29 PM - Ups and Downs of the a/c business..... (sid) 55. 04:37 PM - Hmmmmnnn, not a bad idea........ (sid) 56. 05:01 PM - Re: Re: Strut covers (Bob Unternaehrer) 57. 05:36 PM - Re: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon problrm - Now Pr... (Bruce Harrington) 58. 05:37 PM - Flaperon repair (cnichols) 59. 05:55 PM - Re: Flaperon repair (Dee Young) 60. 06:56 PM - Re: Flaperon repair (gene m. calkins) 61. 09:10 PM - Re: Flaperon repair (Ceashman@aol.com) 62. 09:20 PM - Grove Aircraft's outstanding service (Tom Tomlin) 63. 09:25 PM - DC-3 flown 2/3 of the years since the 100th Anniversary of flight. (Paul A. Franz, P.E.) 64. 10:57 PM - Re: DC-3 flown 2/3 of the years since the 100th Anniversary of flight. (Ted Palamarek) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:59:17 AM PST US From: michel Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Avid skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel Dear helping listers, I exchanged a couple of emails with Steve Winder of Airdale and unfortunately the Avid wheel penetration snow skis won't fit my wheels. Although it matches my wheel size and axle diameter, my balloon tyres are simply too wide to fit in the penetration hole. So, I am back to square one and thinking of building my own. Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:12:44 AM PST US From: broschart Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Now Prop info needed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: broschart i just used the feeler gage to set the pitch and it seemed smooth so flew it without further measuring i had a gsc wood 3 blade one which looked very nice but after 2 seasons it needed refinishing which only lasted another 2 seasons, and i had to paint the rear surface so i could see through it with the sun in the rear of the plane i found the wood prop very difficult to set even and after awhile i just give up and go with it as it is, then there is the problem of the wood compressing and the hub has to be sanded down 10 thousands i couldn't get the tips to run with in the alignment spec until someone said if you stand beside the prop when it is running you will see that they line themselves up so i no longer worry about that setting Have a good day - Charlie Ron Carroll wrote: > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Carroll" > > Charlie, I currently have a 2-blade Powerfin on my plane, and find it a little harder to adjust. My problem is that while using a feeler gauge is nice, things change slightly when the blades are torqued, as evidenced by the use of a bubble protractor. I just use the bubble machine from the get-go so that I don't have to do it twice. > > The reason I'm interested in a 3-blade prop is because the 2-blade I have is about 2 or 3 inches too short. To compensate it must have too much pitch dialed in to load the engine properly, affecting my take-off & climb. > > I can get one new blade and a 3-blade hub from Powerfin. They will cut off my existing two blades to match & balance the new third blade. The cost for parts & labor is nearly the cost of a new prop. This is why I asked for recommendations for prop preferences. If I buy a whole new prop I can sell the old one and get some of the cost back. > > Ron Carroll > ----- Original Message ----- > From: broschart > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 3:23 AM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Now Prop info needed > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: broschart > > i think you would like the Powerfin prop's feeler gage adjustment method > better than the other methods used by other makes > > Have a good day - Charlie > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:12:44 AM PST US From: broschart Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Bird Strike --> Kitfox-List message posted by: broschart better be careful or the friends of animals will get you Have a good day - Charlie dmorisse wrote: > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dmorisse" > > Bounced msg sent to old list. > Darrel > List Janitor > > To: "Kitfox@Sportflight.Com" > Subject: Bird Strike on Model IV Being Built > List > > Thought I would share my unfortunate experience today with a large bird. It think it was what we in Texas call a Grakle. I had just finished sanding after the second coat of Poly Spray on my rudder and was complimenting myself on a job well done. As a reward I decided it was time for a break. So leaving my garage door open I went into the house and sat in my favorite chair and relaxed for about 15 minutes. When I returned to the garage, much to my disbelieve, this bird was sitting on my beautiful rudder pecking away. I didn't know that birds like Poly Spay. Perhaps he was looking for UV protection. It does not appear that the pecking did any real damage. However, in the process of doing my level best to commit murder with a broom, this beast landed on my rudder with surch force that his claws tore a 1/2" hole in the rudder. So now I am trying to decide whether to patch this hole and forever be reminded of this now deceased critter or to recover the whole rudder. > > No need for anyone to be concerned that this bird might attach your airplane. He is no longer capable. > > Maybe by tomorrow I will be able to laugh about this. > > Jimmie > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:59:08 AM PST US From: michel Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Unfriendly ATC --> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel >===== Original Message From "Kitfox" >Michel, good to here you are getting on so well with your Fox. Thanks, Chris. Yes, I have a lot of fun with my "loved one." About ATC, the military and Britain, I have no experience in the air but - as you may know - I have sailed a lot in the Channel and I have always (except once) sailed on the English side. Mostly because of the coastal radio stations, although French is my mother tongue. The British Coast Guards offer such a nice service, much better than the French. I am sure they are both professional and will perform a SAR action of equal quality. But the French operators (Cape Gris-Nez, Cherbour, Ouessant) are youngsters, not too polite. On the other hand, the British Coast Guards are elderly officers operating the channel 16 watch. When you're out there, sailing single-handed in a gale, and in the most trafficated waterway of the world, it's nice to hear the recomforting voice of a very polite and well-manered British Coast Guard officer. I won't make your situation easier but it sure makes you feel more at ease! Cheers, Michel Do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:02:49 AM PST US From: Wwillyard@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon problrm - Now Pr... --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Wwillyard@aol.com In a message dated 12/7/2003 12:57:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, RonCarr@qwest.net writes: > Bill, your message to Lowell states that you use a 70" Powerfin Prop. I am > using a Powerfin with 2-blades, measuring 70" diameter. However, I must > dial in an excessive amount of pitch in order to absorb my 582's power. I don't > know whether to go to a longer 2-blade, or change to a 3-blade. > > Do you have a 2 or 3-blade configuration, and what is your engine? It may > be that you have a larger engine, accounting for the nearly 90 MPH cruise at > 5500. > > According to the Powerfin tech, my 2-blade 70" prop is not long enough for a > 582. My question to the list has generated so many different opinions that > I'm not sure what to do. I can order 2 new longer blades from Powerfin to > replace my existing blades (about $300), or buy 1 shorter blade, a 3-blade hub, > and send my two in to be shortened & matched to the new one (about $410). > The only reason I haven't bought 2 new blades (the least expensive route) is > because I've heard that the 3-blades are smoother and give best all-round > performance. At 5500 I only get about 75 MPH, a tad short of your 88. > > Ron Carroll > Ron, My Powerfin is on a 912. I am no authority on which is smoother other than my hangar neighbor went from a two blade to a three blade on his Bonanza in the interest of less vibration. My GSC from SkyStar was a three blade, so I stayed with this configuration. My understanding that for the 912 at least the reason for three blades was ground clearance. Bill W. N20736 DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:45:37 AM PST US From: michel Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel >===== Original Message From Grant Fluent > I posted a picture of my ski dollies on the >Sportflight website under "Gotta Haves". Nice work, Grant! If I can't get my "wheel penetration" skis, I'll think of doing something similar to you. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:46 AM PST US From: "dmorisse" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dmorisse" Very nice Grant. Build them yourself? Darrel > Hello All, > > I posted a picture of my ski dollies on the > Sportflight website under "Gotta Haves". > > Grant Fluent > Newcastle, NE > Classic IV 912S ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:47 AM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" Never had an airplane on ski's,,, how do you get them on the dollys.. Can I assume that the wheel penetration type skis will roll on a hard surface using the penetrating part of the wheel... Do the skis have to be stabilized someway while in the air to hold them nearly horizontal... Approximately what is the angle. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Fluent" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skis > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Grant Fluent > > Hello All, > > I posted a picture of my ski dollies on the > Sportflight website under "Gotta Haves". > > Grant Fluent > Newcastle, NE > Classic IV 912S > > do not archive > > --- dmorisse wrote: > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dmorisse" > > > > > > > I built a pair of ski dollies when I was 1/2 > > owner > > > in an Aeronca Chief with skis. If you're > > interested, I > > > have pictures. > > > > > > Grant Fluent > > > Newcastle, NE > > > Classic IV 912S > > > > Grant, would you mind posting those pics on > > Sportflight.com? > > Darrel > > > > > > > > Contributions > > any other > > Forums. > > > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:47 AM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Avid skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" How do the wheel penetration skis mount to the airplane.... I've got cleveland wheels and brakes on mine. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: "michel" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Avid skis > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel > > Dear helping listers, > > I exchanged a couple of emails with Steve Winder of Airdale and unfortunately > the Avid wheel penetration snow skis won't fit my wheels. Although it matches > my wheel size and axle diameter, my balloon tyres are simply too wide to fit > in the penetration hole. So, I am back to square one and thinking of building > my own. > > Cheers, > Michel > > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:09 AM PST US From: "Gary Algate" Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Strut covers --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" Bob Mine are the Skystar strut covers but I purchased them from another List member in the USA and for the life of me I can't remember his name. I'm sure he will read this and hopefully drop us a line. They are PVC and just snap together - I immediately gained 8mph cruise when I fitted them. They had to be painted but then took only about 2 hours to fit without removing the wing struts. Gary Algate Lite2/582 >>>>>>>>> Gary,, what was the cost of the strut covers,, shipping and all..I assume they came from skystar or are they aftermarket type things. Bob U. <<<<<<<<< ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:44 AM PST US From: "Gary Algate" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" Michel Are you able to take of in-field from the main run way and make use of the snow there. They allow us to do this a lot in Canada. Gary Algate Lite/582 ----->>>>>>> This is very nice, Darrel, you did an excellent job. But I already have this kind of skis. The problem is, if I use them: 1) I'll need a dolly to put the plane on in order to get it in the hangar. 2) In March or April, my runway will most probably be barren asphalt but around us and especially inland, there will still be a lot of snow. I will then certainly fly but will be afraid to move away from the airfield since an outfield landing would be very dangerous. As a last resort, I can change my bungee gears for aluminium ones and use the type of skis Gene shows us. But it is a costly solution and honestly, I like the look of the old-fashion bungee gear. <<<<<< ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:47 AM PST US From: "Gary Algate" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Tailwheel ski WAS: Short flight --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" Gene I have the latest aluminum spring tail wheel gear that is steerable but when you kick it hard it will release on a dtente. I took the photos yesterday as I converted over to skis (1-1/2" Hours from start to finish) but left my camera home. I'll get it at lunch and post the photos later today. I had a great flight yesterday on skis and did a few field landings. The lakes are frozen over now but with only 1-1/2" ice its still to thin for me. I wait until there's a minimum of 6" before I land on the lakes. Gary Algate Lite2/582 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gene m. calkins Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tailwheel ski WAS: Short flight --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "gene m. calkins" --> Gary I would like to see it too. What kind of tail wheel do you have steerable or full swivel? Gene N99GC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Subject: Kitfox-List: Tailwheel ski WAS: Short flight > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > Gary Algate wrote: > > I made my own tail ski from a piece of 1/4" thick plastic and a > > piece of aluminium - I will take a couple of photos and send you off > > list. It was easy and it works really well. > > Thank you Gary, I look forward to that. > > Michel > > do not archive > > advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:10 AM PST US From: michel Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel >===== Original Message From "Bob Unternaehrer" >Can I assume that the wheel penetration type skis will roll on a hard surface Yes Bob. The dollies are only needed for "ski-only" configuration. >Do the skis have to be stabilized someway while in the air Yes. As you can imagine, a ski flipping downward would be very dangerous. They are (at least on the one I have now) secured both aft and fore, by wires and bungees. They should be able to move on the bungees' stretch to compensate at least for the about 15 degrees a taildragger "rests down." As I see on the Avid model, the rear end of the ski has a small wheel that will roll on the ground if there is no snow, or very little of it. If I make my own design of wheel penetration skis, I'll probably add this: The aft part of the ski, behind the wheel, will also curl upward. I am afraid that if it doesn't, much snow will be lifted by the wheel and pile up on the rear end. But I am not there yet, I still have to consider how to fix such a penetration ski on the axle. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:49 AM PST US From: michel Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Avid skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel >===== Original Message From "Bob Unternaehrer" >How do the wheel penetration skis mount to the airplane.... This is what I try to figure out, Bob. I believe you need support on both sides of the wheel. It means a new and longer axle, in any case. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:06 AM PST US From: "Vic Jacko" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Strut covers --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko" Gary, You bought the struts from yours truly. Glad you put them to good use. The streamlining of the "round" struts (lift, jury and stab) that are exposed to the slipstream is the most single mod to increase the speed of the Kitfox, next in line would be the wheels pants. Lastly would be the elevator gap seal and the fuel caps. With 100 or more horsepower available one should be able to increase their top speed 10 to 15 MPH after they make all the mods! Vic Jacko, Roswell, NM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Algate" Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Strut covers > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" > > Bob > > Mine are the Skystar strut covers but I purchased them from another List > member in the USA and for the life of me I can't remember his name. I'm sure > he will read this and hopefully drop us a line. > > They are PVC and just snap together - I immediately gained 8mph cruise when > I fitted them. > > They had to be painted but then took only about 2 hours to fit without > removing the wing struts. > > Gary Algate > Lite2/582 > > > >>>>>>>>> > Gary,, what was the cost of the strut covers,, shipping and all..I assume > they came from skystar or are they aftermarket type things. Bob U. > <<<<<<<<< > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:36 AM PST US From: "Peter Graichen" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon problrm - Now Pr... --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Peter Graichen" Please change the Subject line! Peter Graichen http://home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Wwillyard@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon problrm - Now Pr... --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Wwillyard@aol.com In a message dated 12/7/2003 12:57:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, RonCarr@qwest.net writes: > Bill, your message to Lowell states that you use a 70" Powerfin Prop. I am > using a Powerfin with 2-blades, measuring 70" diameter. However, I must > dial in an excessive amount of pitch in order to absorb my 582's power. I don't > know whether to go to a longer 2-blade, or change to a 3-blade. > > Do you have a 2 or 3-blade configuration, and what is your engine? It may > be that you have a larger engine, accounting for the nearly 90 MPH cruise at > 5500. > > According to the Powerfin tech, my 2-blade 70" prop is not long enough for a > 582. My question to the list has generated so many different opinions that > I'm not sure what to do. I can order 2 new longer blades from Powerfin to > replace my existing blades (about $300), or buy 1 shorter blade, a 3-blade hub, > and send my two in to be shortened & matched to the new one (about $410). > The only reason I haven't bought 2 new blades (the least expensive route) is > because I've heard that the 3-blades are smoother and give best all-round > performance. At 5500 I only get about 75 MPH, a tad short of your 88. > > Ron Carroll > Ron, My Powerfin is on a 912. I am no authority on which is smoother other than my hangar neighbor went from a two blade to a three blade on his Bonanza in the interest of less vibration. My GSC from SkyStar was a three blade, so I stayed with this configuration. My understanding that for the 912 at least the reason for three blades was ground clearance. Bill W. N20736 DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:05 AM PST US From: michel Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel >===== Original Message From "Gary Algate" >Are you able to take of in-field from the main run way and make use of the >snow there. In principle, yes, Gary. But since I live near the coast (the airfield is only 90 ft ASL) we don't get that much snow and by late winter, over the black asphalt, it will melt away pretty quick. However, we may still have over two meters snow in the hollow of certains valleys. As you know, snow is not an even cover. I'd hate to have to land in deep snow with only my balloon tyres. In my humble opinion, the "wheel penetration" skis are the only safe way to fly in winter Norway. Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:36 AM PST US From: "Kurt A. Schumacher" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kurt A. Schumacher" Michael, If you need a solution to convert in flight, here are skis - the Swiss way: There are something more then a hand full of Avid and Kitfox flying to the glaciers at 10'000+ ft in Switzerland on a regular base, some of them have more then 1000 mountain landings. It is not a straight forward and cheepo solution, most have installed skis as shown on these pics: http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In/2000/Images/DSC00047.JPG http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00225.JPG http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00232.JPG http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00234.JPG http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00233.JPG http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00235.JPG (12 V hydraulic oil pump!) Hope this gives an idea. -Kurt. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of michel Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel >===== Original Message From Grant Fluent > I posted a picture of my ski dollies on the >Sportflight website under "Gotta Haves". Nice work, Grant! If I can't get my "wheel penetration" skis, I'll think of doing something similar to you. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:04 AM PST US From: "Peter Graichen" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon problrm - Now Pr... --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Peter Graichen" What doe this have to do with flaperons as stated in the subject line? Peter Graichen http://home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Floran Higgins Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon problrm - Now Pr... --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" I have been following this discussion on props with some interest so I thought I would put in my 2-cents worth. When I bought my model 4 Speedster it was already built . It had a 912 UL and came with a GSC two bladed in-flight adjustable prop and a GSC three bladed ground adjustable prop. The in-flight adjustable gave very good performance but it had a vibration in it that I didn't like. I removed it and installed the three bladed prop. Although It lost some performance the three bladed was so much smoother I preferred it. I removed the 912 UL and installed a 912 ULS. I installed a GSC three bladed ground adjustable prop. This setup has just about the same performance that I had with the other engine and the in-flight adjustable prop. I am old fashioned enough that I think an airplane with a round cowl should have a wooden three bladed prop. I just prefer the looks of it. I am now retired and am not in that big of a hurry to get someplace. The performance I am getting with this setup satisfies me completely. Floran H. ----- Original Message ----- From: "cnichols" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon problrm - Now Pr... > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "cnichols" > > To quote Tony Bingelis from one of his books, "Use as long a prop as you can > for as long as you can." It's my understanding that the most efficient prop > is one with only a single blade. Randy Schlitter (hey, just because he > builds a different airplane doesn't mean he's nuts) says in his promotional > material that he's never seen a 3-blade prop perform better than a 2-blade > one. Apparently the only reason to go to a 3-blade prop is if you don't > have enough clearance to use a 2-blade prop long enough to give you the > proper bite. The only thing I don't understand from the above has to do > with the maximum amount of pitch which can be dialed in. Obviously at som e > point the blade's "angle of attack" would become too great for efficient > flying, or so it would appear to me. > > Clem Nichols > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Carroll" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon > problrm - Now Pr... > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Carroll" > > > > Bill, your message to Lowell states that you use a 70" Powerfin Prop. I > am using a Powerfin with 2-blades, measuring 70" diameter. However, I must > dial in an excessive amount of pitch in order to absorb my 582's power. I > don't know whether to go to a longer 2-blade, or change to a 3-blade. > > > > Do you have a 2 or 3-blade configuration, and what is your engine? It may > be that you have a larger engine, accounting for the nearly 90 MPH cruise at > 5500. > > > > According to the Powerfin tech, my 2-blade 70" prop is not long enough for > a 582. My question to the list has generated so many different opinions > that I'm not sure what to do. I can order 2 new longer blades from Powerfin > to replace my existing blades (about $300), or buy 1 shorter blade, a > 3-blade hub, and send my two in to be shortened & matched to the new one > (about $410). The only reason I haven't bought 2 new blades (the least > expensive route) is because I've heard that the 3-blades are smoother and > give best all-round performance. At 5500 I only get about 75 MPH, a tad > short of your 88. > > > > Ron Carroll > > do not archive > > ################# > > Lowell > > > > There may be some truth to the round cowl effect although I have nothing > to > > base this on other than talk on the list. Unlike what appears to be the > goal > > of a number of Kitfox builders, speed at cruse was not a concern and for > this > > reason I went 68" to the 70" diameter with the Powerfin. I chose this prop > over > > the warp drive largely because of its weight. There may be better choices > > but compared to the GSC, this has proven to be a very low maintenance prop > for > > me. I dialed my prop into give me what I felt was a comfortable cruse > speed at > > 5500 RPM. With this setting I indicate about 88 to 89 MPH and can easily > > exceed engine red line in level flight. When I tried to achieve higher > curse > > speeds, with either prop, I found that I would start to have low fuel > indications > > at the header tank when the wing tanks were less than half full do to the > > somewhat negative angle of attack to maintain level flight. My prior > Cessna > > flight time and the very sensitive rudder on the Kitfox also resulted in > frequently > > poor flight coordination during this phase of testing which may have > > contributed to the fuel flow problem. As a result I decided that I wanted > a cruse > > speed that would have the bottom side of the wing approximately level with > the > > horizon. With my current prop setting I can achieve the published climb > > performance figures and that makes me happy. > > > > The bottom line is I fly because I love to fly so if it takes me a little > > longer to get to my destination (should I actually have a destination) so > much > > the better. > > > > Bill W. N20736 > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:29 AM PST US From: "Gary Algate" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: RE: Strut covers --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" Vic As soon as I saw your posting I recognised your name - thanks for coming back so quickly Regards and Merry Christmas Gary Algate Lite2/582 Do Not Archive >>>>>> Gary, You bought the struts from yours truly. Glad you put them to good use. The streamlining of the "round" struts (lift, jury and stab) that are exposed to the slipstream is the most single mod to increase the speed of the Kitfox, next in line would be the wheels pants. Lastly would be the elevator gap seal and the fuel caps. With 100 or more horsepower available one should be able to increase their top speed 10 to 15 MPH after they make all the mods! Vic Jacko, Roswell, NM >>>>>>>> ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:27 AM PST US From: "Peter Graichen" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon problrm - Now Pr... --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Peter Graichen" Please change the Subject line! Peter Graichen http://home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of cnichols Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon problrm - Now Pr... --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "cnichols" To quote Tony Bingelis from one of his books, "Use as long a prop as you can for as long as you can." It's my understanding that the most efficient prop is one with only a single blade. Randy Schlitter (hey, just because he builds a different airplane doesn't mean he's nuts) says in his promotional material that he's never seen a 3-blade prop perform better than a 2-blade one. Apparently the only reason to go to a 3-blade prop is if you don't have enough clearance to use a 2-blade prop long enough to give you the proper bite. The only thing I don't understand from the above has to do with the maximum amount of pitch which can be dialed in. Obviously at some point the blade's "angle of attack" would become too great for efficient flying, or so it would appear to me. Clem Nichols ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Carroll" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon problrm - Now Pr... > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Carroll" > > Bill, your message to Lowell states that you use a 70" Powerfin Prop. I am using a Powerfin with 2-blades, measuring 70" diameter. However, I must dial in an excessive amount of pitch in order to absorb my 582's power. I don't know whether to go to a longer 2-blade, or change to a 3-blade. > > Do you have a 2 or 3-blade configuration, and what is your engine? It may be that you have a larger engine, accounting for the nearly 90 MPH cruise at 5500. > > According to the Powerfin tech, my 2-blade 70" prop is not long enough for a 582. My question to the list has generated so many different opinions that I'm not sure what to do. I can order 2 new longer blades from Powerfin to replace my existing blades (about $300), or buy 1 shorter blade, a 3-blade hub, and send my two in to be shortened & matched to the new one (about $410). The only reason I haven't bought 2 new blades (the least expensive route) is because I've heard that the 3-blades are smoother and give best all-round performance. At 5500 I only get about 75 MPH, a tad short of your 88. > > Ron Carroll > do not archive > ################# > Lowell > > There may be some truth to the round cowl effect although I have nothing to > base this on other than talk on the list. Unlike what appears to be the goal > of a number of Kitfox builders, speed at cruse was not a concern and for this > reason I went 68" to the 70" diameter with the Powerfin. I chose this prop over > the warp drive largely because of its weight. There may be better choices > but compared to the GSC, this has proven to be a very low maintenance prop for > me. I dialed my prop into give me what I felt was a comfortable cruse speed at > 5500 RPM. With this setting I indicate about 88 to 89 MPH and can easily > exceed engine red line in level flight. When I tried to achieve higher curse > speeds, with either prop, I found that I would start to have low fuel indications > at the header tank when the wing tanks were less than half full do to the > somewhat negative angle of attack to maintain level flight. My prior Cessna > flight time and the very sensitive rudder on the Kitfox also resulted in frequently > poor flight coordination during this phase of testing which may have > contributed to the fuel flow problem. As a result I decided that I wanted a cruse > speed that would have the bottom side of the wing approximately level with the > horizon. With my current prop setting I can achieve the published climb > performance figures and that makes me happy. > > The bottom line is I fly because I love to fly so if it takes me a little > longer to get to my destination (should I actually have a destination) so much > the better. > > Bill W. N20736 > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:48 AM PST US From: "Gary Algate" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" I think you're probably right Michel. The skis that I purchased from Vic are also quite wide so they have a lot of flotation in soft snow. Last year I landed at the end of a lake and got out to walk to the shore and disappeared in snow up to my arm pits. Its pretty amazing how well the SkyStar floats work Gary Algate Lite2/582s >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd hate to have to land in deep snow with only my balloon tyres. In my humble opinion, the "wheel penetration" skis are the only safe way to fly in winter Norway. Cheers, Michel <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:53 AM PST US From: Subject: Kitfox-List: Metars on wireless web --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Looking for a good wireless cell phone metar site like cupitt aviation to access Metars prior and during flights for wx and winds aloft. All the free ones seem to have disappeared. Any suggestions. > > From: Wwillyard@aol.com > Date: 2003/12/08 Mon AM 06:02:10 CST > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon problrm - Now Pr... > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:25 AM PST US From: Grant Fluent Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Grant Fluent Bob, When I had the Aeronca Chief, it took two of us to get the plane on the dollies. One to lift at the wing strut attach points and the other to roll the dolly under the ski. Grant Fluent Newcastle, NE Classic IV --- Bob Unternaehrer wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob > Unternaehrer" > > Never had an airplane on ski's,,, how do you get > them on the dollys.. Can I > assume that the wheel penetration type skis will > roll on a hard surface > using the penetrating part of the wheel... Do the > skis have to be stabilized > someway while in the air to hold them nearly > horizontal... Approximately > what is the angle. Bob U. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Grant Fluent" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skis > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Grant Fluent > > > > > Hello All, > > > > I posted a picture of my ski dollies on the > > Sportflight website under "Gotta Haves". > > > > Grant Fluent > > Newcastle, NE > > Classic IV 912S > > > > do not archive > > > > --- dmorisse wrote: > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dmorisse" > > > > > > > > > > I built a pair of ski dollies when I was 1/2 > > > owner > > > > in an Aeronca Chief with skis. If you're > > > interested, I > > > > have pictures. > > > > > > > > Grant Fluent > > > > Newcastle, NE > > > > Classic IV 912S > > > > > > Grant, would you mind posting those pics on > > > Sportflight.com? > > > Darrel > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > > > any other > > > Forums. > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm > > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > > > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:55 AM PST US From: Grant Fluent Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Grant Fluent Thanks Darrel. Yes, I built them myself. They work very well. I only used them with the Aeronca a couple of times. Grant Fluent Newcastle, NE Classic IV 912S do not archive --- dmorisse wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dmorisse" > > > Very nice Grant. Build them yourself? > Darrel > > > Hello All, > > > > I posted a picture of my ski dollies on the > > Sportflight website under "Gotta Haves". > > > > Grant Fluent > > Newcastle, NE > > Classic IV 912S > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:21 AM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Kurt, Thanks for sharing these pictures. It is interesting that these skies do not provide much floatation behind the wheel. Randy - Skis someday - focus now on finishing building. . -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kurt A. Schumacher Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kurt A. Schumacher" Michael, If you need a solution to convert in flight, here are skis - the Swiss way: There are something more then a hand full of Avid and Kitfox flying to the glaciers at 10'000+ ft in Switzerland on a regular base, some of them have more then 1000 mountain landings. It is not a straight forward and cheepo solution, most have installed skis as shown on these pics: http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In/2000/Images/DSC00047.JPG http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00225.JPG http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00232.JPG http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00234.JPG http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00233.JPG http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00235.JPG (12 V hydraulic oil pump!) Hope this gives an idea. -Kurt. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of michel Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel >===== Original Message From Grant Fluent > I posted a picture of my ski dollies on the >Sportflight website under "Gotta Haves". Nice work, Grant! If I can't get my "wheel penetration" skis, I'll think of doing something similar to you. Cheers, Michel do not archive == == == == ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:22 AM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Avid skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Michel, It would be simple to get new tires! Randy . my balloon tyres are simply too wide to fit in the penetration hole. So, I am back to square one and thinking of building my own. Cheers, Michel == == == == ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:42 AM PST US From: "Gary Algate" Subject: Kitfox-List: Ski photos --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" I have posted the photos of my Skystar Fibreglass skis and home made tail ski to the matronics photoshare site as accessed by shortcuts at footer of the list emails. I don't know how long they will take to be posted. Best regards, Gary Algate Lite2/582 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:26 AM PST US From: W Duke Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: First Flight N913KF --> Kitfox-List message posted by: W Duke Congratulations. Maxwell Duke S6 IO240 185hours and counting Bill Hammond wrote: So, now I have 36 minutes of Kitfox time in my log book. I have thoroughly enjoyed the building and am looking forward to the flying. My personal euphoria is exhilarating. All is right with the world. As so may others on this list have stated... Blue Skies. Bill Hammond Parker, Colorado Maxwell Duke S6/IO240/Phase II Flight Testing --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:54 AM PST US From: Arthur Nation Subject: Kitfox-List: Banks Brothers --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Arthur Nation Would you both please contact me regarding shipments by SkyStar. Your e-mail addresses, on your web page, are defunct. Thanks. Arthur Nation Tacoma, WA ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:17 AM PST US From: "Kurt A. Schumacher" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kurt A. Schumacher" Randy, The hydraulic cylinder is turning the mount on the axle, when the skis are in place, the metal mount is pointing straight down and the skis are moving down and back. Referring to http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00233.JPG the tire is above the gray/blue area. This is the standard layout used in the Alps since the early days of mountain landings on glaciers and snow. See also http://www.gletscherflug.ch/SGPV/bulletin102.htm (browse 3/4 down the page), shows a different view on a very similar system. -Kurt. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Daughenbaugh Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" --> Kurt, Thanks for sharing these pictures. It is interesting that these skies do not provide much floatation behind the wheel. Randy - Skis someday - focus now on finishing building. . -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kurt A. Schumacher Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kurt A. Schumacher" Michael, If you need a solution to convert in flight, here are skis - the Swiss way: There are something more then a hand full of Avid and Kitfox flying to the glaciers at 10'000+ ft in Switzerland on a regular base, some of them have more then 1000 mountain landings. It is not a straight forward and cheepo solution, most have installed skis as shown on these pics: http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In/2000/Images/DSC00047.JPG http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00225.JPG http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00232.JPG http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00234.JPG http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00233.JPG http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00235.JPG (12 V hydraulic oil pump!) Hope this gives an idea. -Kurt. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of michel Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel >===== Original Message From Grant Fluent > I posted a picture of my ski dollies on the >Sportflight website under "Gotta Haves". Nice work, Grant! If I can't get my "wheel penetration" skis, I'll think of doing something similar to you. Cheers, Michel do not archive == == == == ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:21 AM PST US From: "Kurt A. Schumacher" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kurt A. Schumacher" Here is a good Kitfox ski view http://www.gletscherflug.ch/albums/album05/abu.jpg (Kitfox IV Speedster F-PSDX - Alain Gabus, Switzerland) -Kurt. --- Randy, The hydraulic cylinder is turning the mount on the axle, when the skis are in place, the metal mount is pointing straight down and the skis are moving down and back. Referring to http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00233.JPG the tire is above the gray/blue area. This is the standard layout used in the Alps since the early days of mountain landings on glaciers and snow. See also http://www.gletscherflug.ch/SGPV/bulletin102.htm (browse 3/4 down the page), shows a different view on a very similar system. -Kurt. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Daughenbaugh Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" --> Kurt, Thanks for sharing these pictures. It is interesting that these skies do not provide much floatation behind the wheel. Randy - Skis someday - focus now on finishing building. . -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kurt A. Schumacher Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kurt A. Schumacher" Michael, If you need a solution to convert in flight, here are skis - the Swiss way: There are something more then a hand full of Avid and Kitfox flying to the glaciers at 10'000+ ft in Switzerland on a regular base, some of them have more then 1000 mountain landings. It is not a straight forward and cheepo solution, most have installed skis as shown on these pics: http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In/2000/Images/DSC00047.JPG http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00225.JPG http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00232.JPG http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00234.JPG http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00233.JPG http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00235.JPG (12 V hydraulic oil pump!) Hope this gives an idea. -Kurt. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of michel Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel >===== Original Message From Grant Fluent > I posted a picture of my ski dollies on the >Sportflight website under "Gotta Haves". Nice work, Grant! If I can't get my "wheel penetration" skis, I'll think of doing something similar to you. Cheers, Michel do not archive == == == == ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 11:25:27 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe "Kurt A. Schumacher" wrote: > If you need a solution to convert in flight, here are skis - the Swiss way: Wow! That must be the "Swiss watch" quality of all Kitfox skis, Kurt!!! Amazing! But maybe a tad too complex for a beginner like me. One day ... when I am old ... or when Santa gets richer, maybe! :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:35 AM PST US From: "Gary Algate" Subject: Kitfox-List: Ski Photos --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" I don't know how long it will take for the ski photos to show on the web and I have forgotten the list members that wanted to see them. If you would like to remind me I will send them directly to your private email address. Michel, I had your address so I have already sent them to you. Best regards. Gary Algate Lite2/582 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 12:00:40 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Avid skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Randy Daughenbaugh wrote: > It would be simple to get new tires! It has also crossed my mind too. But I kind of like my balloon tyres too. When I decided to purchase this model 3, last year, it was because I wanted a STOL plane I could land anywhere. I see the big balloon tyres as a safe way to land on uneven ground. Mind you, I am only a novice and I might be wrong in my assumption. Speed is not an issue for me ... yet! Time will show! :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:06 PM PST US From: "David & Maria Lumgair" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David & Maria Lumgair" I found a set for sale on Ultralight Classifieds. See this link. http://www.ultralighthomepage.com/CLASSIFIEDS/classifieds.cgi?session_key=&search_and_display_db_button=on&db_id=6006&query=retrieval You might have to cut and paste it. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Fluent" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skis > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Grant Fluent > > Bob, > When I had the Aeronca Chief, it took two of us to > get the plane on the dollies. One to lift at the wing > strut attach points and the other to roll the dolly > under the ski. > Grant Fluent > Newcastle, NE > Classic IV > > --- Bob Unternaehrer wrote: > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob > > Unternaehrer" > > > > Never had an airplane on ski's,,, how do you get > > them on the dollys.. Can I > > assume that the wheel penetration type skis will > > roll on a hard surface > > using the penetrating part of the wheel... Do the > > skis have to be stabilized > > someway while in the air to hold them nearly > > horizontal... Approximately > > what is the angle. Bob U. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Grant Fluent" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skis > > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Grant Fluent > > > > > > > > Hello All, > > > > > > I posted a picture of my ski dollies on the > > > Sportflight website under "Gotta Haves". > > > > > > Grant Fluent > > > Newcastle, NE > > > Classic IV 912S > > > > > > do not archive > > > > > > --- dmorisse wrote: > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dmorisse" > > > > > > > > > > > > > I built a pair of ski dollies when I was 1/2 > > > > owner > > > > > in an Aeronca Chief with skis. If you're > > > > interested, I > > > > > have pictures. > > > > > > > > > > Grant Fluent > > > > > Newcastle, NE > > > > > Classic IV 912S > > > > > > > > Grant, would you mind posting those pics on > > > > Sportflight.com? > > > > Darrel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > > > > any other > > > > Forums. > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm > > > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > > > > > > > > --- > > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > > > > > > Contributions > > any other > > Forums. > > > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 12:09:43 PM PST US From: "Floran Higgins" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon problrm - Now Pr... --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" My comments were in response to e-mails by Ron Carroll and others concerning props. I didn't know it had to do with a certain subject matter. I sometimes get the impression that this list is for a certain clique and the rest of us should keep quiet. Floran H. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Graichen" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon problrm - Now Pr... > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Peter Graichen" > > What doe this have to do with flaperons as stated in the subject line? > > Peter Graichen > http://home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Floran Higgins > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon > problrm - Now Pr... > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" > > I have been following this discussion on props with some interest so I > thought I would put in my 2-cents worth. > When I bought my model 4 Speedster it was already built . It had a 912 UL > and came with a GSC two bladed in-flight adjustable prop and a GSC three > bladed ground adjustable prop. The in-flight adjustable gave very good > performance but it had a vibration in it that I didn't like. I removed it > and installed the three bladed prop. Although It lost some performance the > three bladed was so much smoother I preferred it. > I removed the 912 UL and installed a 912 ULS. I installed a GSC three bladed > ground adjustable prop. This setup has just about the same performance that > I had with the other engine and the in-flight adjustable prop. > I am old fashioned enough that I think an airplane with a round cowl should > have a wooden three bladed prop. I just prefer the looks of it. > I am now retired and am not in that big of a hurry to get someplace. The > performance I am getting with this setup satisfies me completely. > Floran H. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cnichols" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon > problrm - Now Pr... > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "cnichols" > > > > To quote Tony Bingelis from one of his books, "Use as long a prop as you > can > > for as long as you can." It's my understanding that the most efficient > prop > > is one with only a single blade. Randy Schlitter (hey, just because he > > builds a different airplane doesn't mean he's nuts) says in his > promotional > > material that he's never seen a 3-blade prop perform better than a 2-blade > > one. Apparently the only reason to go to a 3-blade prop is if you don't > > have enough clearance to use a 2-blade prop long enough to give you the > > proper bite. The only thing I don't understand from the above has to do > > with the maximum amount of pitch which can be dialed in. Obviously at som > e > > point the blade's "angle of attack" would become too great for efficient > > flying, or so it would appear to me. > > > > Clem Nichols > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ron Carroll" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon > > problrm - Now Pr... > > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Carroll" > > > > > > Bill, your message to Lowell states that you use a 70" Powerfin Prop. I > > am using a Powerfin with 2-blades, measuring 70" diameter. However, I > must > > dial in an excessive amount of pitch in order to absorb my 582's power. I > > don't know whether to go to a longer 2-blade, or change to a 3-blade. > > > > > > Do you have a 2 or 3-blade configuration, and what is your engine? It > may > > be that you have a larger engine, accounting for the nearly 90 MPH cruise > at > > 5500. > > > > > > According to the Powerfin tech, my 2-blade 70" prop is not long enough > for > > a 582. My question to the list has generated so many different opinions > > that I'm not sure what to do. I can order 2 new longer blades from > Powerfin > > to replace my existing blades (about $300), or buy 1 shorter blade, a > > 3-blade hub, and send my two in to be shortened & matched to the new one > > (about $410). The only reason I haven't bought 2 new blades (the least > > expensive route) is because I've heard that the 3-blades are smoother and > > give best all-round performance. At 5500 I only get about 75 MPH, a tad > > short of your 88. > > > > > > Ron Carroll > > > do not archive > > > ################# > > > Lowell > > > > > > There may be some truth to the round cowl effect although I have nothing > > to > > > base this on other than talk on the list. Unlike what appears to be the > > goal > > > of a number of Kitfox builders, speed at cruse was not a concern and for > > this > > > reason I went 68" to the 70" diameter with the Powerfin. I chose this > prop > > over > > > the warp drive largely because of its weight. There may be better > choices > > > but compared to the GSC, this has proven to be a very low maintenance > prop > > for > > > me. I dialed my prop into give me what I felt was a comfortable cruse > > speed at > > > 5500 RPM. With this setting I indicate about 88 to 89 MPH and can > easily > > > exceed engine red line in level flight. When I tried to achieve higher > > curse > > > speeds, with either prop, I found that I would start to have low fuel > > indications > > > at the header tank when the wing tanks were less than half full do to > the > > > somewhat negative angle of attack to maintain level flight. My prior > > Cessna > > > flight time and the very sensitive rudder on the Kitfox also resulted in > > frequently > > > poor flight coordination during this phase of testing which may have > > > contributed to the fuel flow problem. As a result I decided that I > wanted > > a cruse > > > speed that would have the bottom side of the wing approximately level > with > > the > > > horizon. With my current prop setting I can achieve the published climb > > > performance figures and that makes me happy. > > > > > > The bottom line is I fly because I love to fly so if it takes me a > little > > > longer to get to my destination (should I actually have a destination) > so > > much > > > the better. > > > > > > Bill W. N20736 > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 12:15:50 PM PST US From: Torgeir Mortensen Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen Hi there, What a picture, real hot.. (In all this talk about skis.. :).. Greetings from the "cold" North. (Snowing like crazy right now..) Torgeir. Michel Verheughe wrote: > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > "Kurt A. Schumacher" wrote: > > If you need a solution to convert in flight, here are skis - the Swiss way: > > Wow! That must be the "Swiss watch" quality of all Kitfox skis, Kurt!!! Amazing! > But maybe a tad too complex for a beginner like me. One day ... when I am old > ... or when Santa gets richer, maybe! :-) > > Cheers, > Michel > > do not archive > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 12:34:41 PM PST US From: "Gary Algate" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Subject --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" Floran, I certainly understand your frustration as sometimes members of the list come down on people like "a ton of bricks" for simple errors. It is a good idea to address comments etc to the relative subject heading but like you I often just reply to others listing and the subject heading gets forgotten. No big deal! Anyway I know that the list isn't just for the chosen few as there are far too many people that are helpful and friendly - like me!! Do not archive Gary Algate Lite2/582 ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 12:42:12 PM PST US From: Torgeir Mortensen Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ski Photos --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen > Gary Algate wrote: > > I don't know how long it will take for the ski photos to show on the web and > I have forgotten the list members that wanted to see them. Hi Gary, Why not post them to the Sportfligh, we all know, -right, they will be there in seconds... :) Cheers Torgeir. do not archive ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 12:46:45 PM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Kurt, Thanks! I did see the extra hardware, but didn't put enough thought into what it could be for. Randy Do not archive . -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kurt A. Schumacher Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kurt A. Schumacher" Randy, The hydraulic cylinder is turning the mount on the axle, when the skis are in place, the metal mount is pointing straight down and the skis are moving down and back. Referring to http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00233.JPG the tire is above the gray/blue area. This is the standard layout used in the Alps since the early days of mountain landings on glaciers and snow. See also http://www.gletscherflug.ch/SGPV/bulletin102.htm (browse 3/4 down the page), shows a different view on a very similar system. -Kurt. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Daughenbaugh Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" --> Kurt, Thanks for sharing these pictures. It is interesting that these skies do not provide much floatation behind the wheel. Randy - Skis someday - focus now on finishing building. . -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kurt A. Schumacher Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kurt A. Schumacher" Michael, If you need a solution to convert in flight, here are skis - the Swiss way: There are something more then a hand full of Avid and Kitfox flying to the glaciers at 10'000+ ft in Switzerland on a regular base, some of them have more then 1000 mountain landings. It is not a straight forward and cheepo solution, most have installed skis as shown on these pics: http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In/2000/Images/DSC00047.JPG http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00225.JPG http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00232.JPG http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00234.JPG http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00233.JPG http://www.experimental.ch/Fly-In-spring/2003-LSGE/images/DSC00235.JPG (12 V hydraulic oil pump!) Hope this gives an idea. -Kurt. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of michel Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel >===== Original Message From Grant Fluent > I posted a picture of my ski dollies on the >Sportflight website under "Gotta Haves". Nice work, Grant! If I can't get my "wheel penetration" skis, I'll think of doing something similar to you. Cheers, Michel do not archive == == == == == == == == ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:34 PM PST US From: "Gary Algate" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Ski Photos --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" Good idea - will do Gary Algate Lite2/582 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Gary, Why not post them to the Sportfligh, we all know, -right, they will be there in seconds... :) Cheers Torgeir. do not archive <<<<<<<<<<<<< ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:33 PM PST US From: "Gary Algate" Subject: Kitfox-List: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" Photos are uploaded to the Sportflight page under "add ons" Gary Algate Lite2/582 ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:11 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: Swiss skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe "Kurt A. Schumacher" wrote: > Here is a good Kitfox ski view http://www.gletscherflug.ch/albums/album05/abu.jpg Is that a mirror in the left wing struts, Kurt? I guess it is to check if the skis are in position, right? Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 02:02:58 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ski Photos --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Gary Algate wrote: > Michel, I had your address so I have already sent them to you. Thank you very much, Gary. Yes, I noticed that on the matronics site, no picture was posted yet in December. It may take a while. Your skis look very much like the one I already have. If I can't get wheel penetration skis this winter, I might try the old skis. Your tailwheel ski is also smart but if I am to use the plane on both asphalt and snow, I'll need something else that can be put in addition of the Maule tailwheel. ... yes, I know, I am greedy, I want everything, wheels, skis, floats ... ;-) Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:51 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: OT: Up north WAS: Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Torgeir Mortensen wrote: > Greetings from the "cold" North. > (Snowing like crazy right now..) Just a word from a Southerner (Norwegian, that is! :-) Our poor friend Torgeir, up north, is living a lot of storms lately. And the weather forecast for next week doesn't look any better. The storm of last week was so big that the met office gave it a name, like they do with tropical cyclones. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:51 PM PST US From: "Don Pearsall" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Subject --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" Floran, This list is certainly NOT for a certain clique. I encourage you to ask questions as well as answer them whenever you feel like it. You, as well all members, are welcome here. We have some posters who are quite prolific with their messages and we appreciate the help, and we also have many lurkers who have never posted a message. We are all just a group of flyers and builders who have the same goal - to help others in the group. As far as subject lines go, some threads do change directions and the subject should be changed. Please feel free to do that using your own judgement. Don Pearsall List Janitor ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:16 PM PST US From: "Kurt A. Schumacher" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Swiss skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kurt A. Schumacher" >Is that a mirror in the left wing struts, Kurt? I guess it is to check if the skis are in position, right? Correct! ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:38 PM PST US From: "Steve M" Subject: Kitfox-List: Skystar's lift strut streamlining? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve M" I see on Skystar's website that they offer "streamline strut covers" for models 4 thru 7, found at http://www.skystar.com/wings.htm . I assume these are the plastic airfoil-shaped covers that should reduce the drag of formerly round struts? I have a Model 2. Anyone know why these would not fit my plane? It has round steel-tube lift struts, I think either 5/8" or 3/4" in diameter. They're pretty skinny, though being steel they are obviously strong enough for the loads imposed. I called Skystar, got only a recording saying they'll all back. In the meantime, anyone know...? Steve Maher Kitfox Model 2, Geo Metro engine San Diego, CA Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home. http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:12 PM PST US From: "flier" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skystar's lift strut streamlining? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" Steve, I think the extruded PVC streamlining is made for the 1" lift struts and they're glued directly to the strut so you'd have to make up for the smaller diameter when you installed them but otherwise I don't see why they wouldn't work. Some folks don't like the weight they add as they're pretty dense but many of us have used'em and they work fine. Regards, Ted --- Original Message --- From: "Steve M" Subject: Kitfox-List: Skystar's lift strut streamlining? >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve M" > >I see on Skystar's website that they offer "streamline strut covers" for >models 4 thru 7, found at http://www.skystar.com/wings.htm . I assume these >are the plastic airfoil-shaped covers that should reduce the drag of >formerly round struts? > >I have a Model 2. Anyone know why these would not fit my plane? It has round >steel-tube lift struts, I think either 5/8" or 3/4" in diameter. They're >pretty skinny, though being steel they are obviously strong enough for the >loads imposed. > >I called Skystar, got only a recording saying they'll all back. In the >meantime, anyone know...? > >Steve Maher >Kitfox Model 2, Geo Metro engine >San Diego, CA > >Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home. >http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx > > >_- ====================================================== ================== Contributions any other Forums. >_- ====================================================== ================== >_- ====================================================== ================== http://www.matronics.com/subscription http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list http://www.matronics.com/archives http://www.matronics.com/photoshare list http://www.matronics.com/emaillists http://www.matronics.com/contribution >_- ====================================================== ================== > > ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 02:45:02 PM PST US From: "NSI AERO" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Banks Brothers --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "NSI AERO" Hello Arthur, Have not heard from you lately, I hope all is well. Just received this e-mail from you, but was not sure if it was directed to me or not? Best regards, Lance Wheeler -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Nation Subject: Kitfox-List: Banks Brothers --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Arthur Nation Would you both please contact me regarding shipments by SkyStar. Your e-mail addresses, on your web page, are defunct. Thanks. Arthur Nation Tacoma, WA == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:39 PM PST US From: Torgeir Mortensen Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skystar's lift strut streamlining? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen > Steve M wrote: > I have a Model 2. Anyone know why these would not fit my plane? It has round > steel-tube lift struts, I think either 5/8" or 3/4" in diameter. They're > pretty skinny, though being steel they are obviously strong enough for the > loads imposed. Hi Steve, Think our mod II has 3/4" as you suggest, the mod III and IV is 1" Torgeir. ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 04:10:35 PM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon problrm - Now Pr... --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" I for one am glad someone pointed it out. It will benefit us all in the long run when we do a search on a particular subject. I think was guilty of the same mistake of just joining in. This is the best group around and run by great folks. Keep us on our toes. Rick N656T -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Floran Higgins Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon problrm - Now Pr... --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" My comments were in response to e-mails by Ron Carroll and others concerning props. I didn't know it had to do with a certain subject matter. I sometimes get the impression that this list is for a certain clique and the rest of us should keep quiet. Floran H. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Graichen" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon problrm - Now Pr... > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Peter Graichen" > > What doe this have to do with flaperons as stated in the subject line? > > Peter Graichen > http://home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Floran Higgins > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon > problrm - Now Pr... > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" > > I have been following this discussion on props with some interest so I > thought I would put in my 2-cents worth. > When I bought my model 4 Speedster it was already built . It had a 912 UL > and came with a GSC two bladed in-flight adjustable prop and a GSC three > bladed ground adjustable prop. The in-flight adjustable gave very good > performance but it had a vibration in it that I didn't like. I removed it > and installed the three bladed prop. Although It lost some performance the > three bladed was so much smoother I preferred it. > I removed the 912 UL and installed a 912 ULS. I installed a GSC three bladed > ground adjustable prop. This setup has just about the same performance that > I had with the other engine and the in-flight adjustable prop. > I am old fashioned enough that I think an airplane with a round cowl should > have a wooden three bladed prop. I just prefer the looks of it. > I am now retired and am not in that big of a hurry to get someplace. The > performance I am getting with this setup satisfies me completely. > Floran H. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cnichols" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon > problrm - Now Pr... > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "cnichols" > > > > To quote Tony Bingelis from one of his books, "Use as long a prop as you > can > > for as long as you can." It's my understanding that the most efficient > prop > > is one with only a single blade. Randy Schlitter (hey, just because he > > builds a different airplane doesn't mean he's nuts) says in his > promotional > > material that he's never seen a 3-blade prop perform better than a 2-blade > > one. Apparently the only reason to go to a 3-blade prop is if you don't > > have enough clearance to use a 2-blade prop long enough to give you the > > proper bite. The only thing I don't understand from the above has to do > > with the maximum amount of pitch which can be dialed in. Obviously at som > e > > point the blade's "angle of attack" would become too great for efficient > > flying, or so it would appear to me. > > > > Clem Nichols > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ron Carroll" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon > > problrm - Now Pr... > > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Carroll" > > > > > > Bill, your message to Lowell states that you use a 70" Powerfin Prop. I > > am using a Powerfin with 2-blades, measuring 70" diameter. However, I > must > > dial in an excessive amount of pitch in order to absorb my 582's power. I > > don't know whether to go to a longer 2-blade, or change to a 3-blade. > > > > > > Do you have a 2 or 3-blade configuration, and what is your engine? It > may > > be that you have a larger engine, accounting for the nearly 90 MPH cruise > at > > 5500. > > > > > > According to the Powerfin tech, my 2-blade 70" prop is not long enough > for > > a 582. My question to the list has generated so many different opinions > > that I'm not sure what to do. I can order 2 new longer blades from > Powerfin > > to replace my existing blades (about $300), or buy 1 shorter blade, a > > 3-blade hub, and send my two in to be shortened & matched to the new one > > (about $410). The only reason I haven't bought 2 new blades (the least > > expensive route) is because I've heard that the 3-blades are smoother and > > give best all-round performance. At 5500 I only get about 75 MPH, a tad > > short of your 88. > > > > > > Ron Carroll > > > do not archive > > > ################# > > > Lowell > > > > > > There may be some truth to the round cowl effect although I have nothing > > to > > > base this on other than talk on the list. Unlike what appears to be the > > goal > > > of a number of Kitfox builders, speed at cruse was not a concern and for > > this > > > reason I went 68" to the 70" diameter with the Powerfin. I chose this > prop > > over > > > the warp drive largely because of its weight. There may be better > choices > > > but compared to the GSC, this has proven to be a very low maintenance > prop > > for > > > me. I dialed my prop into give me what I felt was a comfortable cruse > > speed at > > > 5500 RPM. With this setting I indicate about 88 to 89 MPH and can > easily > > > exceed engine red line in level flight. When I tried to achieve higher > > curse > > > speeds, with either prop, I found that I would start to have low fuel > > indications > > > at the header tank when the wing tanks were less than half full do to > the > > > somewhat negative angle of attack to maintain level flight. My prior > > Cessna > > > flight time and the very sensitive rudder on the Kitfox also resulted in > > frequently > > > poor flight coordination during this phase of testing which may have > > > contributed to the fuel flow problem. As a result I decided that I > wanted > > a cruse > > > speed that would have the bottom side of the wing approximately level > with > > the > > > horizon. With my current prop setting I can achieve the published climb > > > performance figures and that makes me happy. > > > > > > The bottom line is I fly because I love to fly so if it takes me a > little > > > longer to get to my destination (should I actually have a destination) > so > > much > > > the better. > > > > > > Bill W. N20736 > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 04:29:43 PM PST US From: "sid" Subject: Kitfox-List: Ups and Downs of the a/c business..... --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "sid" Unfortunately this is the truth.......oh well, maybe they will show up somewhere else, or the 'company' will get sold again. Its a great design and a terrific flying little plane and with the Magnum line and seaplane design made for an 'all around company' offering good service and support. No longer, at this point. If you Foxer's hear of anything, how about letting the Avid group, or me, in on the scoop. Right now the aftermarket and support service is coming from Airdale.com and Steve Winder. He has many cross referenced parts and service items for both the Fox and the Avid lines......... Hausding, Sid N204S Avid Speedwing 582 Alpena, Mi 49707 sid@i2k.com ------------------------ > True Story John, I drive by there frequently, never anyone around. The plane is still on the tower and that's about it. > > Dee Young > Model II > > do not archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: JMCBEAN > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 8:58 AM > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Avid skis > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" > > I have been hesitant to say anything........ I have had several customers > call about the status of Avid, have heard some talk about it and have had > potential customers come to Skystar for a tour after they went to Avid. > > The bottom line of what I have heard is that Avid is out of business... the > hanger in MT is empty and people are looking for the assets which seem to be > "on the move". > > Blue Skies!! > John & Debra McBean > "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerry Liles > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Avid skis > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles > > Did you try the Avid Aircraft site? > http://avidair.com/ > I just went back and it's all there. > > I don't think Airdale has the skis but Steve Winder is familiar with > them and may even know where there is a set available. It is possible > that Airdale will make them. Send Steve a query. His emali address is > on the site. > > Jerry Liles > > Bob Unternaehrer wrote: > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" > > > > >I can't find the "avid site" that has the buttons you describe... I get > the > >airdale homepage and the links on the left with none called "OPTIONS" Can > >you give me a link please. > > > >Bob U. > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Michel Verheughe" > >To: > >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Avid skis > > > > > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > >> > >>Jerry Liles wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Go to the Avid site. On the right hand side click on options. On the > >>>options page under Options and Accessories click on Wheel penetration > >>>skis. > >>> > >>> > >>Thank you, Jerry. It looks like the kind that can be mounted on bungee > >> > >> > >gears. > > > > > >>I'll write at once and inquest. > >> > >>Cheers, > >>Michel > >> > >>do not archive > >> > >> > >>--- > >>[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > >--- > >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:06 PM PST US From: "sid" Subject: Kitfox-List: Hmmmmnnn, not a bad idea........ --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "sid" Might be something for the factories in question to look at! Give one hell of a rounded out line of small aircraft with terrific versitility................ ------------------ > It would be historically funny if Avid and SS were > rejoined under new ownership. > > Kurt S. > > --- JMCBEAN wrote: > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" > > > > > > I have been hesitant to say anything........ I have > > had several customers > > call about the status of Avid, have heard some talk > > about it and have had > > potential customers come to Skystar for a tour after > > they went to Avid. > > > > The bottom line of what I have heard is that Avid is > > out of business... the > > hanger in MT is empty and people are looking for the > > assets which seem to be > > "on the move". > > > > Blue Skies!! > > John & Debra McBean > > "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" > > __________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 05:01:44 PM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Strut covers --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" Gary,,, What's the cost?? and are they shippable ?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Algate" Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Strut covers > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" > > Bob > > Mine are the Skystar strut covers but I purchased them from another List > member in the USA and for the life of me I can't remember his name. I'm sure > he will read this and hopefully drop us a line. > > They are PVC and just snap together - I immediately gained 8mph cruise when > I fitted them. > > They had to be painted but then took only about 2 hours to fit without > removing the wing struts. > > Gary Algate > Lite2/582 > > > >>>>>>>>> > Gary,, what was the cost of the strut covers,, shipping and all..I assume > they came from skystar or are they aftermarket type things. Bob U. > <<<<<<<<< > > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 05:36:35 PM PST US From: "Bruce Harrington" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon problrm - Now Pr... --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" Hi Floran, Please don't get upset over this. The purpose of the "Subject" is so newbes and the rest of us can go back thru the archives looking for emails regarding a"subject" of which we have an interest. I requently, tho not always, change the subject when I reply, if appropriate. I've been on this list for a long time, and am not aware of any cliques. There are some of us who really do try to give helpful advice. And so you may see more emails from us. I selectively read this lists emails, so when I see a subject which is of no interest to me, such as the recent volume of "Ski" talk, I just delete them without reading. If you were to respond with a "problem" which I might be able to give some helpful advice, but do not use an appropriate "subject", I'll never see it, and thus can't provide help. I hope I have provided some clarity on the need for proper "Subject". Regards, bh ex-N194KF, 582ed IV-1200, 800+ hrs N321SX Sonex, Jab 3300ed, 59.1 hrs Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another 'Latest update' Re: Newbie flaperon problrm - Now Pr... > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" > > My comments were in response to e-mails by Ron Carroll and others > concerning props. I didn't know it had to do with a certain subject matter. > I sometimes get the impression that this list is for a certain clique and > the rest of us should keep quiet. Floran H. ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:26 PM PST US From: "cnichols" Subject: Kitfox-List: Flaperon repair --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "cnichols" I have a dent on the aluminum leading edge of one of my flapperons which I think must have occurred when the plane, a Model IV 1200, was trailered to me. It's maybe 3 inches long by 3/4 inches high by about 1/4 inch deep. Needless to say the paint was knocked off in that area leaving the exposed bare metal. I want to repair this, but have no idea what product to use. Aircraft Spruce & Speciality have several products which sound OK on paper, but I'd like to see what the group recommends based on experience rather than hype. Obviously I'll want to paint this area when it's filled in and sanded smooth. The color is a canary yellow, but I have no idea what type paint the builder used. Any suggestions there would also be appreciated. Clem Nichols ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:12 PM PST US From: "Dee Young" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flaperon repair Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 17:54:55 -0800 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" There are lots of different kinds of paint out there. You might go to the local automotive paint supplier and purchase a special etching primer made for application to aluminum. I would strip both flaps and apply the etching primer to the aluminum flap followed up by a select automotive paint that closely matches your existing color. This will take away the guess work of what your dealing with. Dee Young Model II N345DY ----- Original Message ----- From: cnichols To: kitfox-list Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 5:36 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Flaperon repair --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "cnichols" I have a dent on the aluminum leading edge of one of my flapperons which I think must have occurred when the plane, a Model IV 1200, was trailered to me. It's maybe 3 inches long by 3/4 inches high by about 1/4 inch deep. Needless to say the paint was knocked off in that area leaving the exposed bare metal. I want to repair this, but have no idea what product to use. Aircraft Spruce & Speciality have several products which sound OK on paper, but I'd like to see what the group recommends based on experience rather than hype. Obviously I'll want to paint this area when it's filled in and sanded smooth. The color is a canary yellow, but I have no idea what type paint the builder used. Any suggestions there would also be appreciated. Clem Nichols ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 06:56:59 PM PST US From: "gene m. calkins" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flaperon repair --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "gene m. calkins" Clem about the dent if you know someone that works in a bodyshop he may get the dent out with very little filler. Gene N99GC ----- Original Message ----- From: "cnichols" Subject: Kitfox-List: Flaperon repair > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "cnichols" > > I have a dent on the aluminum leading edge of one of my flapperons which I think must have occurred when the plane, a Model IV 1200, was trailered to me. It's maybe 3 inches long by 3/4 inches high by about 1/4 inch deep. Needless to say the paint was knocked off in that area leaving the exposed bare metal. I want to repair this, but have no idea what product to use. Aircraft Spruce & Speciality have several products which sound OK on paper, but I'd like to see what the group recommends based on experience rather than hype. Obviously I'll want to paint this area when it's filled in and sanded smooth. The color is a canary yellow, but I have no idea what type paint the builder used. Any suggestions there would also be appreciated. > > Clem Nichols > > ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:28 PM PST US From: Ceashman@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flaperon repair --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com To Clem Nichols. My suggestion would be to use "Superfil" a Polyfiber product. An easy to use product with good fill and good adhesion, also to bare aluminum. P/N 09-28250 Page #40 in the Spruce catalogue. Remember to remove all lose and flaking paint and sand the good existing finish with # 180 grit paper dry. The Superfil should stick very good to the sanded existing finish, providing there is not too much film build. The only problem is that the Superfil is slow drying. You will probably have to apply a second coat (to smooth things out and fill in the pin holes from the first application) as with all body fillers! But it does sand really good as compared to many polyester fillers, like Feather fill. Use a small sanding block and finish sanding with # 320 grit paper and finish the area around the repair with # 500 grit dry. I would use Tempo Zinc Chromate Primer (aerosol 'cause it is easy) Page #307 of the Spruce catalogue. And only spray the repair area. For the color, take the flaperon to a friendly bodyshop or bodyshop supply jobber and ask them to colormatch the yellow. The type of top coat will probably be a urethane, so you will need a hardener and reducer. Don't forget to use a respirator when spraying. Hope this helps. Eric Ashman. Atlanta GA. Classic IV N893. 26 hours and loving it! e-mail; ceashman@aol.com ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:31 PM PST US From: "Tom Tomlin" Subject: Kitfox-List: Grove Aircraft's outstanding service --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tom Tomlin" A note about the outstanding service I received by Robbie at http://www.groveaircraft.com. I chose to replace the Matco brake slave cylinders with Groves. The cylinders I ordered were 1/4 inch too long so I disassembled them and chucked them in the lathe to turn the shaft down This would allow me to extend the threads down the shaft with a die. I messed one up when I didn't get it tight enough in the old lathe and I galled the shaft, along with messing up the threads. This of course, ruined the shaft and caused me to utter a few discouraging words, as I now needed to order a new one. So with my head hanging a bit low, I picked up the phone. I called and was put through to Robbie Grove. I explained what I had done so he would know what part I would need when he said "No problem, I'll just send you a new one without charge, if I could get your name again and address..." I had to pick my chin up off the couch! Again I said I caused the problem and offered to pay for my machining misadventure. He said no, that's okay. Not only that, he said you may need some extra parts so I'll throw in some extra O rings and a couple Snap rings too. WOW! Mighty impressive customer service! Oh yeah...his CNC machined parts look superb...... that is until someone monkeys with em.... Tom Tomlin Greeley Colorado IV Speedster Fuselage on the rotisserie, preparing to cover. ________________________________ Message 63 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:46 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: DC-3 flown 2/3 of the years since the 100th Anniversary of flight. From: "Paul A. Franz, P.E." --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul A. Franz, P.E." Worlds secondhand fleet still soars The DC-3 is no mere airplane: It defined the airline business and set a standard for decades of commercial flight. On the 100th anniversary of powered flight, the DC-3 has the honor of having regularly flown passengers and cargo for more than two-thirds of that time. But it is hardly the only old airplane to grace a fleet. or the same thing but an easier link -- PAF Consulting Engineers | 427 - 140th Ave NE (425)641-8202 voice | Bellevue, WA 98005 (425)641-1773 fax | GnuPG Public Key - ________________________________ Message 64 ____________________________________ Time: 10:57:40 PM PST US From: "Ted Palamarek" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: DC-3 flown 2/3 of the years since the 100th Anniversary of flight. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ted Palamarek" Paul Very interesting Paul --- Just this past summer I made several trips out of Yellowknife in the old DC-3's. I just love flying in them and nothing beats the sound of the ole radials running on the C-46. Thanks for the link. Do not archive Ted Palamarek Edmonton, Ab -- Subject: Kitfox-List: DC-3 flown 2/3 of the years since the 100th Anniversary of flight. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul A. Franz, P.E." Worlds secondhand fleet still soars The DC-3 is no mere airplane: It defined the airline business and set a standard for decades of commercial flight. On the 100th anniversary of powered flight, the DC-3 has the honor of having regularly flown passengers and cargo for more than two-thirds of that time. But it is hardly the only old airplane to grace a fleet. or the same thing but an easier link -- PAF Consulting Engineers | 427 - 140th Ave NE (425)641-8202 voice | Bellevue, WA 98005 (425)641-1773 fax | GnuPG Public Key -