---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 12/23/03: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:05 AM - Re: First Flight (Michel Gordillo) 2. 08:20 AM - European Kitfoxes (sid) 3. 10:20 AM - Re: Finished at last (Dave & Wendy Grosvenor) 4. 11:36 AM - Wheel Skis (sid) 5. 11:42 AM - French experimental WAS:Rotax 582 (Michel Verheughe) 6. 11:54 AM - European microlights/homebuilt (Michel Verheughe) 7. 12:02 PM - Re: Rotax 582 (Michel Verheughe) 8. 12:27 PM - Re: Wheel Skis (Michel Verheughe) 9. 01:04 PM - Re: European microlights/homebuilt (Kurt A. Schumacher) 10. 03:00 PM - Intermittent Internet Connectivity Issues to Matronics... (Matt Dralle) 11. 04:21 PM - High Pucker Factor activated - Missile hit--DHL in Baghdad (Paul A. Franz, P.E.) 12. 05:35 PM - Re: First Flight (JMCBEAN) 13. 05:35 PM - Re: First Flight (JMCBEAN) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:05:55 AM PST US From: "Michel Gordillo" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: First Flight --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michel Gordillo" Hi Jack. Congratulations for your first flight. Step by step. Go step by step. Have that little rudder trim ( around 10 x 2,5 inches), and test the plane. Level the wings on the ground and check the ball indication You test flew the plane solo on board. So there is a weight on the left side and the airplane turns into the left, so you need right rudder and aileron to have the plane straight. I have piloted my KF4 just moving my weight a little bit. I dont think that you will need to change the wing incidence. Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Seaford" Subject: Kitfox-List: First Flight > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jack Seaford" > > I flew my 4-1200 today for the first flight. > Wow, Wow, Wow, I was very excited with the performance, that little 912 awwwwwwwed me. > I love the plane but have a few minor problems. > To keep the ball centered in straight and level flight, you must hold a little right rudder, also you must hold a little right aileron. > Do I need to make a rudder trim for the rudder and if so what size and where to place on rudder? > To fix the aileron problem should I lower forward right wing a couple of turns? > > Thanks for your help > > Jack Seaford > N170NH > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:11 AM PST US From: "sid" Subject: Kitfox-List: European Kitfoxes --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "sid" We have seen this in the past on other lists and one way that seems to work wonderfully is to "accidently" address personal correspondence concerning the overdue account to the plane list of choice; or, several lists for that matter. Maybe the 'public' exposure of this 'accidental release' of personal info will stimulate the memory and obligation factors...............make the facts known and don't be subtle about the exposure........it will be accidental anyhoo! Good Luck, Sid ------------------------ > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > Sadly, this thread has recalled to memory an experience I had with a list member over the last year or so. > > A European Kitfox owner asked the list for a source of the plastic fairings SS supplies for the lift struts which he wanted to use for his gear legs. I had some that I was tired of storing and agreed to send them to him for only the cost of the shipping. They were sent FedEx air express, and using my wife's discount the cost was under $25 > > Immediately after the shipment date (October 2002) and sending a direct e-mail to confirm the shipping date and the cost with my address, this person stopped his correspondence with the list - until August of this year. When he suddenly reappeared, I sent him a personal note reminding him of his obligation to me, and my lack of payment was somehow blamed on the Postal system or something like that and was promised a quick remedy to the non payment. > > I have still received no payment, nor have I received any original e-mail from this individual detailing a payment or any inquiry as to my receiving the payment. I can only assume that I am being deliberately Stiffed. Or for you that might not be familiar with the idiom, I expect that I am being deliberately denied reimbursement for the shipping expenses. > > I am seriously considering releasing his name to the list or maybe copies of all the related e-mails if I don't hear from him promptly since I know of no other way to motivate him to honor his agreement with me. > > Lowell > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:20:50 AM PST US From: "Dave & Wendy Grosvenor" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Finished at last --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave & Wendy Grosvenor" Thanks Tom The cow thing was quite ironic. In South Africa, the registrations simply start at ZU-AAA and go on sequentially. The Civil Aviation Authority does however let you choose the second and third letter if it is available and they are feeling kind. When it came to registering my Bushbaby, the registrations were on ZU-C_ _. So I suggested to Wendy that we request ZU-COW, and paint the plane white with black or brown blotches all over it. I'm sure we could have found some "cow hide" upholstery as well! She didn't like the idea, so I simply applied for registration with the next letters available, a lucky dip. Really funny that we got CJD - someone out there must have a sense of humour! (For those that are not in the know, CJD is short for Mad Cow Disease.) Have a good Christmas and best wishes for 2004. Dave Grosvenor Durban, South Africa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Tomlin" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Finished at last --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tom Tomlin" Dave, that looks mighty fine...I'm sure you're pleased with such a nice looking bird...er...cow... I like Wendy's sense of humor...... Tom Tomlin IV Speedster Greeley Colorado Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:36:01 AM PST US From: "sid" Subject: Kitfox-List: Wheel Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "sid" For anyone still interested in the wheel and ski concept, the Avid Advantage factory video shows skiis and flying and takeoffs and landings aplenty. Good shots up close. If someone wants to view, I can send, postal, a VHF, or I can try to convert to a CD..... Sid ----------------------- > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" > > FWIW - I 've flown the Avid wheel penetration skis for about 300 hours in > various snow conditions. A wheel penetration ski is not as good in the snow > as a straight ski as you have more drag and less "floatation area". But > there is a very easy way to remedy that. When you put the plastic bottoms > on your skis and you make the holes for the wheels, make another piece of > plastic the exact same size as the opening so it fits in there nice and > snug. Then flush rivet an oversize (by about 2inches all around) piece of > aluminum to the top of it. Carry these two little pieces then in your > baggage compartment along with a can of compressed air/tire inflator. When > you find yourself in really deep snow and having trouble taking off, just > let the air out of the tires, slide the plates you made between the tire and > the ski bottom from the top side so they can go anywhere, and then fill the > tires with enough air to hold the plate in position. Obviously you will > need to land in snow back at your destination and then reverse the process > so you can taxi on pavement back to your hangar. This works like a charm > and destroys all myths the naysayers have about wheel penetration skis. > Unfortunately I can't take credit for this idea. Bush pilots used this idea > for years before I heard of it. > > I personally think the Avid designed wheel penetration ski works very well, > and if I was to copy one it would be done just like theirs. Incidentally, > there is no center groove on the bottom, and I have never felt the airplane > to skid around because it didn't have one. But, I do think a slight V shape > in the bottom of the ski would stabilize it more, but it would be best if > the whole ski had that shape, not just a small ridge in the bottom. But > this would complicate what is otherwise a very simple ski. And why mess > with success? > > If I can find my ski installation and assembly info I will post it on > sportflight photo section. I think it would help any of you wanting to > build your own. > > Paul Seehafer > Central Wisconsin > Model IV-1200 912UL amphib > > Subject: Kitfox-List: Wheel Skis > > > > Bob Unternaehrer wrote: > > > Would still liketo try skis...What is the advantages and > > disadvantagesof wheel > > > penetration skis??? > > > > Bob, > > > > I just finished fabricating myself a set of wheel-thru skis for my > > Series V. > > > > Michel is partially correct in his assumptions. I too have the wide > > Tundra tires so I could not "buy" a ready made set. > > Mine are fabbed using 1/2" square aluminum tubing and are based on the > > design of the gentleman from Wisconsin who does some work on the Sonex. > > He has some nice pictures and I can e-mail you pics of mine if you want. > > > > The ski part is made from 3/8" HDP (same thing we use for dog sled > > runners up here) and you can find this about anywhere "Down South". > > My skis weigh about 3 lbs each including the bungees and safety rigging. > > About a gallon of fuel worth. > > ( Most of the weight is the HDP) > > They are just slightly heavier than the wheel pants that I removed this > > last summer and I made them long and wide enough so that they float on > > deep snow. > > It is critical that you do not allow too much of the wheel to protrude > > through the ski. I have just under two inches of tire showing. > > Otherwise, the tires act as a brake in the snow. I used a roller blade > > wheel to support the rear of the skis. It's nice to have the ability to > > use "reverse" thrust to slow down on the hard packed snow. I don't use > > any braking on snow/ice anyway but rollout can be long without the > > "reverse" especially when landing on frozen, windblown lakes. (Don't > > forget to put in some kind of a center runner or you will put yourself > > in a hellofa ground loop) > > Have fun on your skis! I think they look pretty cool! > > Scott McClintock > > Nome, Alaska > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:42:04 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: French experimental WAS:Rotax 582 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe "Kurt A. Schumacher" wrote: > One of the reasons you should never ever write EXPERIMENTAL Thanks Kurt, I'll remember that. If I ever fly to France, I'll identify myself as EXPERIENCED and not EXPERIMENTAL! ;-) Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:54:10 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: European microlights/homebuilt --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Kitfox wrote: > I think that's a good idea with the web site, or at least a link to the > relevant sites. Do you know of this site, Chris? http://www.ulmeurope.com/ Unfortunately the site is not active anymore, due to lack of sponsor. But I think we could do with a European common place to discuss European problems. Because the microlight rule is different for each country. Consider this, if I want to fly from Norway to Spain, where I have family, I'll have to fly over Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium, France and Spain, each country with its own set of rules. Let's help each other to make that easier. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:02:34 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List:Rotax 582 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe martin dovey wrote: > At 300 it had a complete strip down to the crank which was found > to be 2 degs out of line between front & rear (possible prop > strike by the previous owner). Thanks, Martin. Did you do the job yourself or did you sent the engine to a workshop? > We are buying a villa near Valencia! but don't tell anyone, we > have enough friends already. Too late, I've already mailed it on several lists! :-) I lived 5 years north of Benidorm. I just love Spain and ... la paella valenciana. The only problem though, is that they are now speaking Valenciano instead of the Castellano we learnt at school. The apple (manzana) becomes "pomma," the window (ventana) becomes "la fenestre" and the exit (la salida) becomes "la sortida." What does that tell you? ... that the Valencianos are found of French! :-) Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:27:22 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wheel Skis --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe sid wrote: > For anyone still interested in the wheel and ski concept, the Avid Advantage > factory video shows skiis and flying and takeoffs and landings aplenty. I am still interested, Sid. But since Steve Winder tells me his Avid skis won't fit my balloon tyres, I have no other choice than making my own. And I will, as soon as the season holidays are over and I can get a friend to weld them for me. One thing I'd like to know, though: Are the Avid skis in aluminium or steel tubing? Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:04:13 PM PST US From: "Kurt A. Schumacher" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: European microlights/homebuilt --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kurt A. Schumacher" Michel, I am convinced ULMeurope would give us a way to update certain parts of the web pages - because it is still well known... _and_ ULM Europe is...a Swiss company, exhibitor at the EAS Fly-In's...and owned and driven by Mr. Alain Lederer. Bet this would be a good start, right? Salut Alain, As you can see, there is a common European interest in providing Microlight related things - on www.ULMeurope.com . What about if a small crew will go and add certain common information, let's say to start with updates to the international travel by microlight information? I'll prefer to run this beside the Swiss homebuilt related EAS Web ;-) -Kurt. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: European microlights/homebuilt --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Kitfox wrote: > I think that's a good idea with the web site, or at least a link to > the relevant sites. Do you know of this site, Chris? http://www.ulmeurope.com/ Unfortunately the site is not active anymore, due to lack of sponsor. But I think we could do with a European common place to discuss European problems. Because the microlight rule is different for each country. Consider this, if I want to fly from Norway to Spain, where I have family, I'll have to fly over Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium, France and Spain, each country with its own set of rules. Let's help each other to make that easier. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:01 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kitfox-List: Intermittent Internet Connectivity Issues to Matronics... --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, Starting at about 1:05pm PDT Matronics starting having intermittent connectivity issues to the Internet. I've called the ISP and they are looking into the problem and may do intrusive testing on the line at some point this afternoon/evening. For the most part, things seem to be working right now, but the line will drop out every once in a while for 2 to 3 minutes. This problem will effect connections to the Matronics Web server as well as distribution of List mail. I will post a follow up when the problem has been resolved... Hopefully later today. Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Admin. Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:21:09 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: High Pucker Factor activated - Missile hit--DHL in Baghdad From: "Paul A. Franz, P.E." --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul A. Franz, P.E." High pucker factor activated on this departure. A Boeing friend sent me this. I've posted the photos as a .zip file (632 KB) on one of my servers as: I believe this article and the photos will be of general interest to the group. I am sorry to say, I have no information to give credit to the author or photographer. > Subject: Testimony to an A300B4 > > Interesting. Life is not really back to normal in Iraq. > Air Medal Candidates > > > To those of you who are wondering what happened to the DHL A300B4 coming > out of Baghdad last Saturday, take a look. Aircraft was hit at 8000 FT, > lost ALL hydraulics and therefore had no flight controls, actually did a > missed approach using only engine thrust and eventually (after about > 16mins) landed heavily on runway 33L at Baghdad. This was fortunate > because with no steering the aircraft veered of the runway to the left, > had they landed on 33R veering to the left would have taken them > straight into the fire station. The aircraft then travelled about 600 > metres through soft sand taking out a razor wire fence in the process, > see LH engine pic, and came to rest almost at the bottom of the sloping > area between the runway and a taxiway. All three crew evacuated safely > down the second slide, the first one tore on the razor wire. I flew in > with a team on Tuesday in one of our Metros and some special equipment > we'd had made locally in Bahrain and some provided by Airbus. Using a > USAF D9 Caterpillar pulling a 100 metre cable fitted to the back end of > each bogie and a nice new aircraft pushback tug with a towbar on the > nose gear, we were able to remove the aircraft just on dusk on Tuesday > night and towed it to an Iraqi Airways graveyard on one side of the > terminal. > > We stayed overnight in the USAF camp on the airport and went back to the > aircraft on Wednesday morning to allow the insurance survey to be > completed and then secure the aircraft. Basically, LH engine rotates in > a fashion, has ingested lots of razor wire and is knackered. RH engine > has seized, probably from ingesting loads of sand at maximum reverse > thrust and inlet cowl has unacceptable lip damage, probably from hitting > the razor wire fence posts. The No 8 axle appears to be cracked as the > wheel sits at an odd angle. The bulk of the damage is the LH wing. About > 3 metres of rear spar is missing in front of the outboard flap, the wing > has bulged upwards and downwards where the initial explosion appears to > have occurred, one O/B flap track is hanging in the breeze and one has a > small piece of flap still attached, the rest of the flap is nonexistent. > > > The pics show the huge crack that has occurred to the rear spar inboard > of where the spar has burnt away, possibly from loads on the wing during > the landing process. The front spar appears to be intact. The point of > entry pics show where a projectile entered Tank 1A, which was full of > fuel, and, after it ignited, proceeded to burn away at the spar. The > fuel tank ribs in the area directly in front of the O/B flap are burnt > almost 50% through. The crew obviously did a fantastic job in getting > the aircraft back on to the ground and one can only assume that it was > most fortunate that they were not aware of the state of the wing as they > could not see it from the cockpit. It also says a lot for the structure > of the aircraft that it withstood the impact of the (whatever is finally > determined to have hit it). I'm sure there will be lots of other photos > and videos flying around the net, but at least these ones are genuine. > > The worst part for us was the airport was shut down on Wednesday and we > had to be driven in an armour-plated Landcruiser Troop Carrier from > Baghdad to Balad, 60 miles to the north, from where we flew back to > Bahrain in our Metro again. I trust you will all appreciate just how > lucky these guys were.(See attached file: RHGear.ZIP) -- PAF Consulting Engineers | 427 - 140th Ave NE (425)641-8202 voice | Bellevue, WA 98005 (425)641-1773 fax | GnuPG Public Key - ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:57 PM PST US From: "JMCBEAN" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: First Flight --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" Speaking of building.... How'd the inspection go ???? Blue Skies!! John & Debra McBean "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fred Shiple Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: First Flight --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Fred Shiple Way to go, Jack. You've helped keep the rest of us building. Fred ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:57 PM PST US From: "JMCBEAN" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: First Flight --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" Congrats Jack !!!! It is a great feeling. Level cruise flight... One could be affecting the other.. determine that you indeed have a roll and yaw problem before putting on a tab. I would eliminate the roll prior to adding a tab if I had a roll issue. Blue Skies!! John & Debra McBean "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jack Seaford Subject: Kitfox-List: First Flight --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jack Seaford" I flew my 4-1200 today for the first flight. Wow, Wow, Wow, I was very excited with the performance, that little 912 awwwwwwwed me. I love the plane but have a few minor problems. To keep the ball centered in straight and level flight, you must hold a little right rudder, also you must hold a little right aileron. Do I need to make a rudder trim for the rudder and if so what size and where to place on rudder? To fix the aileron problem should I lower forward right wing a couple of turns? Thanks for your help Jack Seaford N170NH