Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:49 AM - Re: Air filters - Carb Ice - 912 (Clifford Begnaud)
2. 07:27 AM - Re: Air filters - Carb Ice - 912 (JMCBEAN)
3. 02:58 PM - Re: Air filters - Carb Ice - 912 (kurt schrader)
4. 04:28 PM - Re: Air filters - Carb Ice - 912 (Randy Daughenbaugh)
5. 07:57 PM - test (Rick)
6. 08:57 PM - Re: Air filters - Carb Ice - 912 (kurt schrader)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Air filters - Carb Ice - 912 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
John,
This is interesting because a Rotax service rep. told me in the past that
the Bing CV carbs don't like to be faced into the wind thus receiving
pressurized or accelerated air. With the model 7 set up with the scat tube
to the naca duct you would indeed be pressurizing the air coming into the
plenum. Perhaps this is acceptable because you would not be directly
accelerating the air into the individual carbs but just presenting overall
higher atmospheric pressure air, thus simulating lower altitude conditions.
Wouldn't this result is higher power output at speed? You said that you
haven't seen any power loss with your current setup, but maybe you would see
a small power gain if you ran scat tube to the naca duct.
I'm one of those that removed the carb heat box from a 912 and saw a
significant increase in power. However, I would really prefer to have carb
heat. Lockwood sells a kit that routes hot radiator water to a block of
aluminum that fits between the carb and rubber boot. The hot water heats the
body of the carb rather that heating the air. This seems like a good way to
go where you wouldn't lose any power. Is anyone using this?
Cliff
>
> The Series 7 is a horse of a different color. For the first time the
Kitfox
> is utilizing the Rotax induction plenum. The plenum ties both carbs
> together and has two ports on it. One port is for fresh air. The Series 7
> install has you route a Scat tube from the port down to the NACA scoop in
> the cowling and into a filter that has been mounted outside the cowling in
> the NACA. The other port is designed for carb heat. SS does not
currently
> have a kit to utilize this feature. It is designed to use a pull cable to
> flip a butterfly shutting down the fresh air and opening the heat. One
> could very easily adapt it.
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Air filters - Carb Ice - 912 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN@cableone.net>
One of the advantages of the plenum is the pressure balance, smooth flow and
consistent temperature of air. Although there may not be much.. pressure,
temperature and flow can vary from side to side of the inside of the
cowling.
Also, the carb vent lines can be routed from the carbs to the plenum and
then off the bottom of the plenum.
I also considered removing the butterfly... found no gain in doing so.
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy
Daughenbaugh
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Air filters - Carb Ice - 912
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
<rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
John,
Thanks for your comments. I appreciate your time!
The induction plenum is a thing of beauty! For those interested, it can
be seen at
http://www.kodiakbs.com/4intro.htm
I don't understand the advantage of it though other than a place to hook
an intake manifold gage to. The way you have set it up wouldn't it
breath better if you just put an air filter on each carb?
I have contemplated taking the nice interlinked butterfly valves out and
put an airfilter on each intake port to improve the breathing. There
are some internals inside the plenum that would appear to restrict the
air flow to the left carbs. Maybe this is the purpose..???? Are there
some advantages the way the carbs are vented?
I can see that it would reduce intake noise.
I have been trying to find a discussion of its function on a rotax
website.
Randy
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JMCBEAN
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Air filters - Carb Ice - 912
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN@cableone.net>
Randy,
Maybe this will help.... The earlier Kitfox's, pre Series 7,
had filters
on the intake of the carbs.... Unless the optional carb heat box was
installed. Then both carbs were tied to the carb heat box and the filter
was
on the intake of the box. I do not believe that many carb heat boxes
were
installed and all that I have spoke with that used them said when
removed
saw a increase in performance.
The Series 7 is a horse of a different color. For the first time the
Kitfox
is utilizing the Rotax induction plenum. The plenum ties both carbs
together and has two ports on it. One port is for fresh air. The Series
7
install has you route a Scat tube from the port down to the NACA scoop
in
the cowling and into a filter that has been mounted outside the cowling
in
the NACA. The other port is designed for carb heat. SS does not
currently
have a kit to utilize this feature. It is designed to use a pull cable
to
flip a butterfly shutting down the fresh air and opening the heat. One
could very easily adapt it.
On my aircraft, I chose to install the air filter directly to the
induction
plenum and not run the Scat tubing. With the filter inside the cowling
I
have not noticed a decrease in performance. I also safety wired the
butterfly so that it could not shut the filtered air off. The Series 7
install is much different then the Series 6.
Hope this helps some.
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy
Daughenbaugh
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Air filters - Carb Ice - 912
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
<rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Air filters - Carb Ice - 912 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Cliff,
I was just looking at this last night. Thinking about
making one like it for my NSI, but with hot oil off
the turbo. Here is the URL for you all.
>http://www.skydrive.co.uk/sd_ch.htm<
If you can keep only the area just past the throttle
into the throat heated, you should do well. But the
add say that it took 3 minutes to defrost this area
once iced. Three minutes of rough running is pretty
scary. I would rather know ASAP to turn it on when
the throat is cold and prevent it than to try to deice
it later with this kind of system. A consideration.
Kurt S.
--- Clifford Begnaud <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
wrote:
>
> John,
.....
> .... However, I would really prefer to have carb
> heat. Lockwood sells a kit that routes hot radiator
> water to a block of
> aluminum that fits between the carb and rubber boot.
> The hot water heats the
> body of the carb rather that heating the air. This
> seems like a good way to
> go where you wouldn't lose any power. Is anyone
> using this?
> Cliff
__________________________________
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
Message 4
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| Subject: | Air filters - Carb Ice - 912 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Kurt,
They say it is left on all the time. The only reason there was a valve
on this one was for the test. The claim the air is not heated so there
is no power loss. I can believe the air is not heated significantly be
cause there is very little surface exposure and short residence time.
This looks like a good deal! Real time carb ice protection.
Randy
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Air filters - Carb Ice - 912
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Cliff,
I was just looking at this last night. Thinking about
making one like it for my NSI, but with hot oil off
the turbo. Here is the URL for you all.
>http://www.skydrive.co.uk/sd_ch.htm<
If you can keep only the area just past the throttle
into the throat heated, you should do well. But the
add say that it took 3 minutes to defrost this area
once iced. Three minutes of rough running is pretty
scary. I would rather know ASAP to turn it on when
the throat is cold and prevent it than to try to deice
it later with this kind of system. A consideration.
Kurt S.
--- Clifford Begnaud <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
wrote:
>
> John,
.....
> .... However, I would really prefer to have carb
> heat. Lockwood sells a kit that routes hot radiator
> water to a block of
> aluminum that fits between the carb and rubber boot.
> The hot water heats the
> body of the carb rather that heating the air. This
> seems like a good way to
> go where you wouldn't lose any power. Is anyone
> using this?
> Cliff
__________________________________
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
==
==
==
==
Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Air filters - Carb Ice - 912 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Good point Randy. If always heating, it keeps the
carb/duct area always warm. And I believe you are
right that it doesn't contribute much to heating the
intake air due to its limited size and coolant flow.
What heat is "lost" thru the little intake heater is
mostly conducted mechanically into the carb and intake
duct. From there, it is removed by the air both
inside and outside of these components thru conduction
and radiation.
For you 912 guys, it looks like the design work is
done. Small and light weight. I would hope that the
specs say what temp range it is good down to though
for you cold wx flyers. There has to be a limit.
Kurt S.
--- Randy Daughenbaugh <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy
> Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>
> Kurt,
> They say it is left on all the time. The only
> reason there was a valve
> on this one was for the test. The claim the air is
> not heated so there
> is no power loss. I can believe the air is not
> heated significantly be
> cause there is very little surface exposure and
> short residence time.
>
> This looks like a good deal! Real time carb ice
> protection.
>
> Randy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kurt schrader
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com.FROM_HAS_ULINE_NUMS
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Air filters - Carb Ice -
> 912
>
> Cliff,
>
> I was just looking at this last night. Thinking
> about
> making one like it for my NSI, but with hot oil off
> the turbo. Here is the URL for you all.
>
> >http://www.skydrive.co.uk/sd_ch.htm<
>
> If you can keep only the area just past the throttle
> into the throat heated, you should do well. But the
> add say that it took 3 minutes to defrost this area
> once iced. Three minutes of rough running is pretty
> scary. I would rather know ASAP to turn it on when
> the throat is cold and prevent it than to try to
> deice
> it later with this kind of system. A consideration.
>
> Kurt S.
>
> --- Clifford Begnaud <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > John,
> .....
> > .... However, I would really prefer to have carb
> > heat. Lockwood sells a kit that routes hot
> radiator
> > water to a block of
> > aluminum that fits between the carb and rubber
> boot.
> > The hot water heats the
> > body of the carb rather that heating the air. This
> > seems like a good way to
> > go where you wouldn't lose any power. Is anyone
> > using this?
> > Cliff
__________________________________
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
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