Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:58 AM - Re: Kitfox list? (Don Pearsall)
2. 04:51 AM - Re: HKS engine (michel)
3. 06:27 AM - Re: Stabil in fuel (Kirk's Welding)
4. 06:45 AM - Re: HKS engine (michel)
5. 06:54 AM - Re: HKS engine (Lowell Fitt)
6. 06:57 AM - Re: Stabil in fuel (Lowell Fitt)
7. 07:04 AM - Re: Stabil in fuel (michel)
8. 07:22 AM - Cowling mods WAS: HKS engine (michel)
9. 09:01 AM - Re: Stabil in fuel (Don Pearsall)
10. 09:33 AM - Xtra 582 motor mount / trailer / inst panel (jareds)
11. 09:37 AM - Final update to newbie flaperon problem (Ron Carroll)
12. 10:04 AM - Re: Installing cabin heater (Bruce Harrington)
13. 10:10 AM - Re: Flapperon problem (Gary Algate)
14. 10:15 AM - Model 3 landing problem (Ron Carroll)
15. 10:23 AM - Re: Stabil in fuel (Roger Standley)
16. 10:29 AM - Re: Model 3 landing problem (Gary Algate)
17. 10:50 AM - Re: Model 3 landing problem (Aerobatics@aol.com)
18. 10:52 AM - Re: Installing cabin heater (john H)
19. 11:52 AM - Re: Model 3 landing problem (Michel Verheughe)
20. 11:58 AM - Re: Model 3 landing problem (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
21. 03:43 PM - Re: Model 3 landing problem (jareds)
22. 04:59 PM - Re: GSC 66" Propeller (Jim Burke)
23. 05:38 PM - How to seal the gas line conections. (owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com)
24. 07:01 PM - Re: Cowling mods WAS: HKS engine (Lowell Fitt)
25. 07:23 PM - Re: How to seal the gas line conections. (Flier)
26. 09:46 PM - Re: How to seal the gas line conections. (jimshumaker)
27. 09:50 PM - Re: Final update to newbie flaperon problem (jimshumaker)
28. 10:10 PM - Re: How to seal the gas line conections. (Steve Cooper)
Message 1
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Steve,
We gave serious consideration to moving the list from my mail server to
Yahoo, but decided against it for several reasons. Privacy, spam, and
embedded advertising were just a few reasons why we did not go Yahoo. We
chose Matronics because all the lists are aviation oriented, and the host,
Matt Dralle is very good at keep the lists working.
The Matronics Kitfox list seems to be working well, thanks to Matt. If you
are missing messages, check the archives (read the bottom of this email) to
see which ones you are missing. I can unsub and resubscribe you just to see
if that solves the problem.
If the problem persists, please let me know and I will help track it down.
Don Pearsall
Admin.
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel <michel@online.no>
>===== Original Message From Matt Keyes <keyesmp@yahoo.com> =====
>http://www.hpower-ltd.com/pages/engine.htm
>http://www.greenskyadventures.com/EnginePricing/engines.htm
Thanks Matt, very interesting reading. However, I still have an unanswered
Do I need to modify it if I install a 912 instead of my 582?
For the Jabiru 2200, I know I'll have to modify it, I have seen picture of it.
For the HKS, I most certainly will also need modifications, the cylinders
being opposite. But ... how is it done? Is it OK to let the cylinder heads
outside the cowling, like a Piper Cub? Should I need an entirely new cowling
or can I just cut out the one I have?
Thanks in advance,
Michel
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Stabil in fuel |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk's Welding" <kirk@mninter.net>
Roger:
After Auto gas sits for several weeks, it will "varnish" metal parts that
are sitting in it (i.e. needle valves, carb bowls, etc.). This coating on
these parts causes the engine to run less than optimal. The gasoline
additive "Sta-bil" is suppose to reduce, or slow down this aging process
that auto gas goes through.
Kirk
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Standley" <taildragon@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Stabil in fuel
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger Standley" <taildragon@msn.com>
>
> Kirk,
>
> What do you mean by "going bad"??
>
> Roger Standley
> IV-1200, 912UL
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kirk's Welding
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 1:33 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Stabil in fuel
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk's Welding" <kirk@mninter.net>
>
> Hello:
>
> I have a Rotax 912 powered Kitfox Classic IV. Sometimes the plane will
sit for weeks with auto gas in it. Does anyone that has a Rotax 912 put
Stabil in their fuel to keep it from going bad? If so, any long term
effects?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kirk Martenson
> Classic IV
>
>
Message 4
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel <michel@online.no>
>===== Original Message From michel <michel@online.no> =====
>Thanks Matt, very interesting reading. However, I still have an unanswered
>Do I need to modify it if I install a 912 instead of my 582?
Weird! Looks like a line of my email felt out. It should read:
"However, I still have an unanswered question about the round cowling. Do I
need to modify it ... "
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Michel, If you are asking about cowl modifications in a swap to the 912,
yes you will have to add aobut an inch or so to the aft edge of the bubble
cowl. At least that is what I had to do when helping a friend do the
conversion.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "michel" <michel@online.no>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: HKS engine
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel <michel@online.no>
>
> >===== Original Message From Matt Keyes <keyesmp@yahoo.com> =====
> >http://www.hpower-ltd.com/pages/engine.htm
> >http://www.greenskyadventures.com/EnginePricing/engines.htm
>
> Thanks Matt, very interesting reading. However, I still have an unanswered
> Do I need to modify it if I install a 912 instead of my 582?
> For the Jabiru 2200, I know I'll have to modify it, I have seen picture of
it.
> For the HKS, I most certainly will also need modifications, the cylinders
> being opposite. But ... how is it done? Is it OK to let the cylinder heads
> outside the cowling, like a Piper Cub? Should I need an entirely new
cowling
> or can I just cut out the one I have?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Michel
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Stabil in fuel |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
This is interesting. I have lots of power equipment around the house. Billy
Goat, chain saw, power washer etc. that all get very occasional use. I have
never had problems starting any of them even after several years non use -
Billy Goat. Am I doing something wrong?
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirk's Welding" <kirk@mninter.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Stabil in fuel
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk's Welding" <kirk@mninter.net>
>
> Roger:
>
> After Auto gas sits for several weeks, it will "varnish" metal parts that
> are sitting in it (i.e. needle valves, carb bowls, etc.). This coating on
> these parts causes the engine to run less than optimal. The gasoline
> additive "Sta-bil" is suppose to reduce, or slow down this aging process
> that auto gas goes through.
>
> Kirk
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Standley" <taildragon@msn.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Stabil in fuel
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger Standley" <taildragon@msn.com>
> >
> > Kirk,
> >
> > What do you mean by "going bad"??
> >
> > Roger Standley
> > IV-1200, 912UL
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Kirk's Welding
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 1:33 PM
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Stabil in fuel
> >
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk's Welding" <kirk@mninter.net>
> >
> > Hello:
> >
> > I have a Rotax 912 powered Kitfox Classic IV. Sometimes the plane
will
> sit for weeks with auto gas in it. Does anyone that has a Rotax 912 put
> Stabil in their fuel to keep it from going bad? If so, any long term
> effects?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Kirk Martenson
> > Classic IV
> >
> >
>
>
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel <michel@online.no>
For what it is worth, here is my experience with "fuel going bad."
A few years ago, I bought a new lawn mower. As I have always done, I kept the
fuel in a small plastic can. In the winter, the mower is not use for maybe 5
months and the petrol (automotive type) stays in the can. Next summer, the
primer rubber pump of the mower gave up, dissolved to a black slime. I went
the to the shop, claiming service on my one year old mower. They replaced the
part but I had to pay for it because they said I had misused the type of fuel,
which was, in their words, containing a strong solvent. Taking the matter
further, I went to the local refinery, where all our petrol comes from (Esso,
Shell, etc. they all come from the same place. Maybe they add a few drops of
additive but it is basically the same petrol), and asked them to analyze it. I
got the same answer, my can was contaminated with a strong solvent. How was
that possible? It was the same can I have used for years!
Since then, I never keep petrol for a longer period of time.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Cowling mods WAS: HKS engine |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel <michel@online.no>
>===== Original Message From "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com> =====
>Michel, If you are asking about cowl modifications in a swap to the 912,
>yes you will have to add aobut an inch or so to the aft edge of the bubble
>cowl. At least that is what I had to do when helping a friend do the
>conversion.
Thanks Lowell. It means that when you purchased a Kitfox 3 from Denney in
1991, you received a different cowling if you ordered the 582 or 912, right?
Could you very briefly explain how that inch is added then? Thanks.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
I hauled out my chainsaw yesterday (Sears Craftsman) that had been sitting
full of gas for about 6 months. I tried and tried to unscrew the gas cap,
but it was stuck tight. I finally got it off using channel-locks. The
plastic gas cap had swollen enough that it just was too big for the threads
in the tank. There was no way I could get it back on again without
destroying it.
I can only assume that the gas additives such as alcohol and MTBE caused the
plastic to expand. Would Stabil help this?
This is just another example of how MTBE and alcohol additives can affect
fuel systems, as we have been discussing on this list for years.
Don Pearsall
Message 10
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| Subject: | Xtra 582 motor mount / trailer / inst panel |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
Been doing some new years house cleaning and realized i've got an extra
582 motor mount.
Old inst panel with a very pretty wood vinear grain thats all shallacked
and pretty. Holes weren't in the orientation i wanted so I did my own.
Someone can just have that one if they are happy with the layout.
Also listed a trailer on the barnstormers.com site with fuel tank and
storage compartments etc...
Jared
Message 11
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| Subject: | Final update to newbie flaperon problem |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Carroll" <RonCarr@Qwest.Net>
If anyone remembers the problem I had with the right-wing dropping when flaps are
applied, I can now say it has been fixed. The problem was finally found to
be with the 'mixer' bar. The =BC" holes at each end, where the vertical pushrods
to the flaperons attach, were apparently drilled with a hand-drill, resulting
in holes that were oversized & out-of-round. This caused 'slack' in the
system. I was aware of the slight slack, but not aware of its dramatic affect
on the flaperon control.
The final method used to identify the problem was to attach a Harbor Freight laser
level to each flaperon, aiming them at the rear wall of my hangar, some 35'
away. As the flaperon handle was slowly pulled, the images on the wall were
expected to follow. However, the port side image started moving down, while
the other image stayed fixed. When the left one was about a foot down, the right
one finally started to follow. I could then see what would happen in flight.
To fix this I would have to go to an AN5 bolt, but there is not enough edge material
for this option. A 7mm bolt being only .020" larger than the AN4 was a
good choice. I had the mixer reamed to 7mm, and bought new 7mm bolts with appropriate
shank length. VOILA! No more problem.
This, along with the melted foam spacers inside the flaperon, and the delamination
of the right inboard rib-like piece (foam) that transfers radial motion from
the spar to the flaperon skin (I don't know what this is called, but later
models have a weldment) caused the loss of control.
Thanks to all of your suggestions, and I realize that it is hard for anyone to
visualize exactly what is going on with someone else's plane while at some remote
location.
Ron Carroll
Oregon, USA
RonCarr@Qwest.Net
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Installing cabin heater |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
Hi John,
In hose from head, install one tee before the bend around the lowef firewall.
Install return tee on hose that returns to engine, just above the lower
firewall.
Run the two heater hoses thru the firewall to the heater.
In the inlet to heater hose, install valve inside cockpit, with valve control on
or around lower instrument panel.
Cheers, bh
> Hi Bruce
> I will have the valve installed in the 5/8 line teed off from the main line
> before the heater core. I just need to know which hose to tee into.
> John
Message 13
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| Subject: | RE: Flapperon problem |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Congratulations Ron.
It's amazing how these problems can be solved sometimes - I have had an
intermittent noise in my radio for some time now and more recently it has
been getting worse. Yesterday while flying I was trying different things to
find the problem, like wiggling wires etc. when I noticed that the noise got
far worse when I touched the throttle. This explained why the noise was
always worse in the circuit ( hand on throttle) and went away in cruise.
I also noticed it was worse when I touched my Garmin 196, so I reached under
the panel and found a loosened wire on the switch where I had tapped in for
a power source to the GPS.
I landed and replaced the fitting and voila - no more noise. This has taken
about 8 months and I have replaced antenna fittings, shielded wires and
moved my intercom. Sometimes it seems that we solve the problems
analytically (as in your case) or just plan dumb ------ luck (as in mine).
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Carroll
Subject: Kitfox-List: Final update to newbie flaperon problem
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Carroll" <RonCarr@Qwest.Net>
If anyone remembers the problem I had with the right-wing dropping when
flaps are applied, I can now say it has been fixed. The problem was
finally found to be with the 'mixer' bar. The =BC" holes at each end, where
the vertical pushrods to the flaperons attach, were apparently drilled with
a hand-drill, resulting in holes that were oversized & out-of-round. This
caused 'slack' in the system. I was aware of the slight slack, but not
aware of its dramatic affect on the flaperon control.
The final method used to identify the problem was to attach a Harbor Freight
laser level to each flaperon, aiming them at the rear wall of my hangar,
some 35' away. As the flaperon handle was slowly pulled, the images on the
wall were expected to follow. However, the port side image started moving
down, while the other image stayed fixed. When the left one was about a
foot down, the right one finally started to follow. I could then see what
would happen in flight.
To fix this I would have to go to an AN5 bolt, but there is not enough edge
material for this option. A 7mm bolt being only .020" larger than the AN4
was a good choice. I had the mixer reamed to 7mm, and bought new 7mm bolts
with appropriate shank length. VOILA! No more problem.
This, along with the melted foam spacers inside the flaperon, and the
delamination of the right inboard rib-like piece (foam) that transfers
radial motion from the spar to the flaperon skin (I don't know what this is
called, but later models have a weldment) caused the loss of control.
Thanks to all of your suggestions, and I realize that it is hard for anyone
to visualize exactly what is going on with someone else's plane while at
some remote location.
Ron Carroll
Oregon, USA
RonCarr@Qwest.Net
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Model 3 landing problem |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Carroll" <RonCarr@Qwest.Net>
I am still a bit intimidated by a taildragger. I practice, but can't seem to feel
comfortable with it. After touchdown the plane frequently has a tendancy
for a wing to lift a wheel off the ground, which starts a swerve. So far I have
been able to stay ahead of it, but can't seem to avoid it.
My plane has tundra tires, and I suspect the large size is increasing the AOA of
the wing while on the ground in the 3-point attitude. I'm thinking that perhaps
600x6 wheels/tires would reduce this and make a difference.
I would be interested in knowing what this angle is for a plane with the smaller
tires, as measured between the front/rear spars at the inboard end. The measurement
can be either in inches difference, or degrees of angle. I'd appreciate
hearing from anyone who knows this information, or can make the measurement
when you have the time.
Has anyone questioned this or have an opinion?
If smaller wheels/tires would make a difference, does anyone have a set you might
consider selling? I'd also like to put on wheel pants, but can't with the
tundra tires.
Ron Carroll
KF3/582
Oregon, USA
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Stabil in fuel |
Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 10:29:05 -0800
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger Standley" <taildragon@msn.com>
Kirk,
With all the different additives that are already being added to auto fuel by refineries,
how would we know if adding Sta-bil is a help or a hurt? Here is a
link to Sta-bil FAQs.
http://www.goldeagle.com/sta-bil/faqs.htm
Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: Kirk's Welding
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 6:27 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Stabil in fuel
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk's Welding" <kirk@mninter.net>
Roger:
After Auto gas sits for several weeks, it will "varnish" metal parts that
are sitting in it (i.e. needle valves, carb bowls, etc.). This coating on
these parts causes the engine to run less than optimal. The gasoline
additive "Sta-bil" is suppose to reduce, or slow down this aging process
that auto gas goes through.
Kirk
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Standley" <taildragon@msn.com>
To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Stabil in fuel
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger Standley" <taildragon@msn.com>
>
> Kirk,
>
> What do you mean by "going bad"??
>
> Roger Standley
> IV-1200, 912UL
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kirk's Welding
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 1:33 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Stabil in fuel
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk's Welding" <kirk@mninter.net>
>
> Hello:
>
> I have a Rotax 912 powered Kitfox Classic IV. Sometimes the plane will
sit for weeks with auto gas in it. Does anyone that has a Rotax 912 put
Stabil in their fuel to keep it from going bad? If so, any long term
effects?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kirk Martenson
> Classic IV
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Model 3 landing problem |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Ron
I have the large wheels also and think maybe you are not fully stalled when
you touch down as once my wheels are planted there's no lift left.
I'm sure you're doing everything right and if I am preaching to the
converted just ignore this but I try to hold off about 2ft above the
ground/water/ice and keep pulling back on the stick until she stalls onto
the landing surface - usually the tail wheel touches first.
regards
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Carroll
Subject: Kitfox-List: Model 3 landing problem
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Carroll" <RonCarr@Qwest.Net>
I am still a bit intimidated by a taildragger. I practice, but can't seem
to feel comfortable with it. After touchdown the plane frequently has a
tendancy for a wing to lift a wheel off the ground, which starts a swerve.
So far I have been able to stay ahead of it, but can't seem to avoid it.
My plane has tundra tires, and I suspect the large size is increasing the
AOA of the wing while on the ground in the 3-point attitude. I'm thinking
that perhaps 600x6 wheels/tires would reduce this and make a difference.
I would be interested in knowing what this angle is for a plane with the
smaller tires, as measured between the front/rear spars at the inboard end.
The measurement can be either in inches difference, or degrees of angle.
I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who knows this information, or can make
the measurement when you have the time.
Has anyone questioned this or have an opinion?
If smaller wheels/tires would make a difference, does anyone have a set you
might consider selling? I'd also like to put on wheel pants, but can't with
the tundra tires.
Ron Carroll
KF3/582
Oregon, USA
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Model 3 landing problem |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com
Interesting, and I am sure they are many opinions.... so here is one :-)
For me, if plane is fully stalled it will not fly any more once landed... a
mental check might help you is to make sure you have FULL up elevator and
keep it there along with the correct aileron input for the crosswind and then you
just need to keep the nose straight with rudder. Sounds like a lot, but not
really.
Point is, if you don't have the correct aileron, AND your the tail FIRMLY on
ground with FULL up,..... no matter what you do with rudder may be almost
useless.
Not difficult, in fact, once you get the handle, its a very sweet plane with
responsive controls, but not tolerant of mistakes.... especially on pavement.
I thought I was proficient in my KOLB (another taildragger) right! MY KF
has taught me a lot. I also got some good instruction from an oldtimer that
I only flew taildraggers! That was worth gold...
Best!
Dave KF 2 582 BH
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Installing cabin heater |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "john H" <professor71@hotmail.com>
Thanks Bruce.
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <AEROWOOD@MCSI.NET>
Hi John,
In hose from head, install one tee before the bend around the lowef firewall.
Install return tee on hose that returns to engine, just above the lower
firewall.
Run the two heater hoses thru the firewall to the heater.
In the inlet to heater hose, install valve inside cockpit, with valve control on
or around lower instrument panel.
Cheers, bh
Hi Bruce
I will have the valve installed in the 5/8 line teed off from the main line
before the heater core. I just need to know which hose to tee into.
John
Scope out the new MSN Plus Internet Software optimizes dial-up to the max!
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Model 3 landing problem |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Ron Carroll wrote:
> I am still a bit intimidated by a taildragger.
Ron, I also have a model 3 with 582 and tundra wheels. I have only 50 hours in
a Kitfox and maybe 200 landings. When I was training with my instructor I just
couldn't get my landings right nor understand what went wrong.
But two days ago, I went for a few T&G just to test how it is to land on a
runway that was like a skating ring. We've had, in turn, snow, rain then frost.
I guess you can imagine what it was like. Driving my car to the airfield was
the dangerous part, flying and landing went so smooth. So smooth that I even
"fooled around" by going most of the runway tail up, just under stall speed.
My message to you is simply: Give yourself time! We have a beautiful plane,
learn to know her.
About the AoA when sitting with tundra wheels, I didn't measured it but I've
modelled my plane quite accurately in the simulator X-Plane and there, the
angle is found to be about 15 degrees. Yes, it would be less if you had smaller
tyres but I am not sure it would improve your landings.
One of the remarks I got from my instructor when I was learning to land, was
that I had to be more agile and not "freeze" in a position if the landing was
bumpy. To be prepared, on final, when my speed is reduced under 60 MPH, I often
move the stick and the pedals in all direction, just to get the "feel" of the
plane at slow speed. Once over the runway and after touch down, I concentrate
on one thing: Keep the plane aligned with the runway and stay ahead of any yaw
tendency. This means sometimes, quick-step dancing on the pedals. The flaring
usually goes by itself and if I touch the ground with only the two wheels, I
just try to keep the attitude, let the speed bleed off; I even push the stick
forward to keep the wheel up until it come to rest on the ground without a
noise. Last Saturday I even landed once without noticing I was on the ground,
it was that smooth.
Of course, all this is in negligible wind conditions.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Model 3 landing problem |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
the suggestions for full stall and holding the stick back are excellent along with
being concious of minimum speed when finally touching down. upwind wing low,
rolling on one main and tail wheel helps with crosswinds.
un related problem could be mains not being properly aligned at touchdown (crab
or incorrect sight picture of centerline. Straight ahead view is probably just
to the left of the bump left of the top of the cowl) or out of alignment at
the tube gear (correctable). Get out your laser pointers and sight in fore and
aft the alignment of your tires.
keep after it, as you become more familiar and check out concerns as they arise
you will experience the same sense of accomplishment evident in your post regarding
the mixing arms. I had a similar challenge in that I over bored the holes
in the arm to an4 then corrected it by fabricating doubler plates riveted to
the arms and used a slightly longer an3 bolt. (Skystar engineered)
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Carroll" <RonCarr@Qwest.Net>
>
> I am still a bit intimidated by a taildragger. I practice, but can't seem to
> feel comfortable with it. After touchdown the plane frequently has a tendancy
> for a wing to lift a wheel off the ground, which starts a swerve. So far I have
> been able to stay ahead of it, but can't seem to avoid it.
>
> My plane has tundra tires, and I suspect the large size is increasing the AOA
of
> the wing while on the ground in the 3-point attitude. I'm thinking that
> perhaps 600x6 wheels/tires would reduce this and make a difference.
>
> I would be interested in knowing what this angle is for a plane with the smaller
> tires, as measured between the front/rear spars at the inboard end. The
> measurement can be either in inches difference, or degrees of angle. I'd
> appreciate hearing from anyone who knows this information, or can make the
> measurement when you have the time.
>
> Has anyone questioned this or have an opinion?
>
> If smaller wheels/tires would make a difference, does anyone have a set you
> might consider selling? I'd also like to put on wheel pants, but can't with
the
> tundra tires.
>
> Ron Carroll
> KF3/582
> Oregon, USA
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Model 3 landing problem |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
I have same config as you and one of the things i forgot to check prior
to my test period with my big balloons was the toe in. In my angst to
start flying my new build i hadn't dbl checked that and once corrected
it made a difference.
For me, remembering to bring it back into my lap and aeleron into the
wind to make sure i'm not succeptable to the wind was quickly learned in
the light kitfox esp on a gusty day.
I recently asked for advice from the group on wheel landings. Having
been told in gusty conditions, wheel was better, but the concensus from
the group was to master the 3 pt full stall and use that in wind. I'm
still not super comfortable especially since i didnt get any tail
instruction other than a few hours from an old flyer in an aeronca chief
15 years ago. I guess we never want to feel we're experts otherwise we
get sloppy.
Keep me posted on your progress and good luck. This is all why i love
flying so much!
Jared
Gary Algate wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
>
>Ron
>
>I have the large wheels also and think maybe you are not fully stalled when
>you touch down as once my wheels are planted there's no lift left.
>
>I'm sure you're doing everything right and if I am preaching to the
>converted just ignore this but I try to hold off about 2ft above the
>ground/water/ice and keep pulling back on the stick until she stalls onto
>the landing surface - usually the tail wheel touches first.
>
>regards
>
>Gary Algate
>Lite2/582
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Carroll
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Model 3 landing problem
>
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Carroll" <RonCarr@Qwest.Net>
>
>I am still a bit intimidated by a taildragger. I practice, but can't seem
>to feel comfortable with it. After touchdown the plane frequently has a
>tendancy for a wing to lift a wheel off the ground, which starts a swerve.
>So far I have been able to stay ahead of it, but can't seem to avoid it.
>
>My plane has tundra tires, and I suspect the large size is increasing the
>AOA of the wing while on the ground in the 3-point attitude. I'm thinking
>that perhaps 600x6 wheels/tires would reduce this and make a difference.
>
>I would be interested in knowing what this angle is for a plane with the
>smaller tires, as measured between the front/rear spars at the inboard end.
>The measurement can be either in inches difference, or degrees of angle.
>I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who knows this information, or can make
>the measurement when you have the time.
>
>Has anyone questioned this or have an opinion?
>
>If smaller wheels/tires would make a difference, does anyone have a set you
>might consider selling? I'd also like to put on wheel pants, but can't with
>the tundra tires.
>
>Ron Carroll
>KF3/582
>Oregon, USA
>
>
>advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | RE: GSC 66" Propeller |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke <jeburke94je@direcway.com>
If anyone is interested I have listed a GSC 66" prop on E-Bay
Item # 2455405247
Have fun bidding
James E. Burke
(N94JE)
Message 23
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| Subject: | How to seal the gas line conections. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by:
Does anybody know a better system to seal the gas line
aluminum conections than tephlon? Im worried as
gasoline disolves tephlon tapes.
Thanks in advance,
Francisco Icaza, Classic IV.
La mejor conexin a internet y 25MB extra a tu correo por $100 al mes. http://net.yahoo.com.mx
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: Cowling mods WAS: HKS engine |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Michel, The engine swap was on a model IV. 582 to 912. The original main
cowl was usable, but had to be modified at the exhaust port. The round cowl
was too short front to back.
To lengthen the cowl:
First when you add the fiberglass, you will want a scarf joint. I used a
flapper wheel - sandpaper wheel - to scarf the original cowl on the inside.
The scarf was about 2 cm long from full thickness to the feather edge. Then
I took some plain typing paper and put a length of plastic packing tape over
it as a separator, cut it into strips the width of the tape and taped them
to the outside of the cowl tape side in and extending beyond the cowl a bit
more than needed for the addition. When everything was tight and in good
alignment, resin and glass was added to the edge of the tape. After cure,
the tape covered paper was easily removed and filler was used to smooth
imperfections. I like to use a single edge razor blade for mall amounts of
filler. Trial fit and trim. It took about a day
Lowell
>
> Thanks Lowell. It means that when you purchased a Kitfox 3 from Denney in
> 1991, you received a different cowling if you ordered the 582 or 912,
right?
> Could you very briefly explain how that inch is added then? Thanks.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | How to seal the gas line conections. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
Rectorseal #5 on the fittings. No sealant should be necessary on the flared
lines.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]
Subject: Kitfox-List: How to seal the gas line conections.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by:
Does anybody know a better system to seal the gas line
aluminum conections than tephlon? Im worried as
gasoline disolves tephlon tapes.
Thanks in advance,
Francisco Icaza, Classic IV.
La mejor conexin a internet y 25MB extra a tu correo por $100 al mes.
http://net.yahoo.com.mx
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: How to seal the gas line conections. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
Francisco
You are correct that Teflon tape should not be used on the fuel system. Any
good plumbing sealant that is gas stable will work on the threads. Tapered
fittings do not use anything on the mating faces and the threads should be
lightly lubed, but they may have sealant on the threads for lube and seal.
Jim Shumaker
----- Original Message -----
From: <owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: How to seal the gas line conections.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by:
>
> Does anybody know a better system to seal the gas line
> aluminum conections than tephlon? Im worried as
> gasoline disolves tephlon tapes.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Francisco Icaza, Classic IV.
>
>
> La mejor conexin a internet y 25MB extra a tu correo por $100 al mes.
http://net.yahoo.com.mx
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Final update to newbie flaperon problem |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
Ron
Thanks for posting the Solution to your puzzler. On the real puzzlers there
is often more than one problem. I'm glad you got you plane flying right.
Jim Shumaker
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Carroll" <RonCarr@Qwest.Net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Final update to newbie flaperon problem
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Carroll" <RonCarr@Qwest.Net>
>
> If anyone remembers the problem I had with the right-wing dropping when
flaps are applied, I can now say it has been fixed. The problem was
finally found to be with the 'mixer' bar. The =BC" holes at each end, where
the vertical pushrods to the flaperons attach, were apparently drilled with
a hand-drill, resulting in holes that were oversized & out-of-round. This
caused 'slack' in the system. I was aware of the slight slack, but not
aware of its dramatic affect on the flaperon control.
>
> The final method used to identify the problem was to attach a Harbor
Freight laser level to each flaperon, aiming them at the rear wall of my
hangar, some 35' away. As the flaperon handle was slowly pulled, the images
on the wall were expected to follow. However, the port side image started
moving down, while the other image stayed fixed. When the left one was
about a foot down, the right one finally started to follow. I could then
see what would happen in flight.
>
> To fix this I would have to go to an AN5 bolt, but there is not enough
edge material for this option. A 7mm bolt being only .020" larger than the
AN4 was a good choice. I had the mixer reamed to 7mm, and bought new 7mm
bolts with appropriate shank length. VOILA! No more problem.
>
> This, along with the melted foam spacers inside the flaperon, and the
delamination of the right inboard rib-like piece (foam) that transfers
radial motion from the spar to the flaperon skin (I don't know what this is
called, but later models have a weldment) caused the loss of control.
>
> Thanks to all of your suggestions, and I realize that it is hard for
anyone to visualize exactly what is going on with someone else's plane while
at some remote location.
>
> Ron Carroll
> Oregon, USA
> RonCarr@Qwest.Net
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: How to seal the gas line conections. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
Locktite 626 gasket illiminator and 7420 Locktite primer...about $50 at
Bearing Specialties, Lancaster, Ca.
----- Original Message -----
From: <owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: How to seal the gas line conections.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by:
>
> Does anybody know a better system to seal the gas line
> aluminum conections than tephlon? Im worried as
> gasoline disolves tephlon tapes.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Francisco Icaza, Classic IV.
>
>
> La mejor conexin a internet y 25MB extra a tu correo por $100 al mes.
http://net.yahoo.com.mx
>
>
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