Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:41 AM - Re: Tri-gear mod? (Michel Verheughe)
2. 04:15 AM - Re: Tri-gear mod? (gene m. calkins)
3. 04:38 AM - Tri-gear mod (gene m. calkins)
4. 04:53 AM - Re: CAP-140 (gene m. calkins)
5. 06:47 AM - Re: Tri-gear mod? (martin dovey)
6. 07:04 AM - Re: CAP-140 (FHowes@aol.com)
7. 07:13 AM - Re: Trigear mod (Ron Carroll)
8. 09:31 AM - Re: 912S Starter (Grant Fluent)
9. 09:46 AM - Re: Tri-gear mod? (Tom Jones)
10. 10:04 AM - Re: Insurance (Bruce Harrington)
11. 10:09 AM - Re: Tri-gear mod? (JMCBEAN)
12. 10:19 AM - Tri-gear mod? (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
13. 10:35 AM - Re: INSURANCE (HOLZY@aol.com)
14. 02:31 PM - Re: Tri-gear mod? (Dcecil3@aol.com)
15. 03:11 PM - Re: Tri-gear mod? (Bill Pleso)
16. 04:19 PM - Re: Tri-gear mod? (kurt schrader)
17. 04:48 PM - Re: Tri-gear mod? (Phil Laker)
18. 05:14 PM - Re: Phil Laker Tri-gear mod? (Dcecil3@aol.com)
19. 07:18 PM - Re: Engine choice (Ron)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Tri-gear mod? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Dcecil3@aol.com wrote:
> OK guys nows the time everybody gets to Bash the Guys who want to fly
> with the tail wheel in the front.
Hello David,
I won't tell you that you are wrong. I love my taildragger and wouldn't change
it for anything but I know that when I bought it, last year, the previous owner
wanted a tricycle instead. It's a good thing we have different tastes.
But I don't agree with the need of the steerable nose wheel. As a student, I
flew 20 hours on a Sky Arrow that has a free-castoring nose wheel and I found
it quite effective. The only drawback on that plane, in my humble opinion, is
that the brakes are two handles on your right hand side. Still, it was quite
easy to steer, making sharp turns when coming to the run-up area. If you have a
free castoring nose wheel and toe brakes on your pedals, you should be quite happy.
The advantage of the free castoring front wheel is that it always puts itself
in the least drag position. This is true when:
1) You fly a turn, the wheel doesn't follow your pedal input but keeps a low
front profile all the time.
2) you land slightly sideways. The wheel puts itself in the direction of the
plane motion, even if you are fighting wind gusts with the rudder.
One thing, though, the free castoring nose wheel should have an adjustable
friction device to avoid fluttering. In the case of the Sky Arrow, it is simply
a bolt on the tube, with a leather patch as a friction surface.
Just my five cents, but also the opinion of my instructor, the owner of the Sky
Arrow.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Tri-gear mod? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "gene m. calkins" <calkinsgm@charter.net>
David I would never bash any one that flies a nose wheel, but is the cost
of parts and down time worth it. I have a Series 6 and it cost me about
$2000.00 to get the nose wheel setup. This was done to make it easy to sell,
if and when I decide to sell it. My question is what are you doing on the
ground at 60 mph in a model 3? Gene N99GC
----- Original Message -----
From: <Dcecil3@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tri-gear mod?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dcecil3@aol.com
>
> I asked the Tri-Gear question about 3 months ago as I also have a model 3.
> The response I got On this site was "Leave well enough alone" Well.......
I'm a
> "Glass half full Kinda guy" I talked to several people and one sent me
some
> pictures of a Kitfox airframe with the nose gear Weldments and ,If you
want a
> Castoring but, not steerable nose wheel you don't have to do alot.On the
other
> hand , I want a steerable nose wheel and have designed one that I think
will
> work just fine.As for the Mains ,if you go with Skystars design you'll
have to
> weld new tubes in to brace the area behind the seat and, the gear will
have
> coil springs ...much like a Cub.I'm going to use the grove gear they're
wider
> which will help with stability and the installation is simpler. OK guys
nows
> the time everybody gets to Bash the Guys who want to fly with the tail
wheel in
> the front .I know your not a true pilot till you fly a taildragger , but I
> can lock my brakes at 60 M.P.H. and not have to crawl out fromunder my
plane can
> you?
>
> Best David Cecil
> KF model 3
> #950
>
>
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "gene m. calkins" <calkinsgm@charter.net>
David Just to keep it straight I have my nose wheel under the tail at this time.
Gene N99GC
Do not archive
Message 4
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "gene m. calkins" <calkinsgm@charter.net>
Fred That was almost two years ago. Gene N99GC
----- Original Message -----
From: <FHowes@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: CAP-140
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: FHowes@aol.com
>
> My CAP 140 prop and gauge worked fine for 406 hours--then the gauge went
> belly up. I was told by Craig at NSI that the guy that was making the
gauges died
> suddenly and they will have to find a new supplier. Unfortunately, Lance
is
> busy on some other project and the gauge problem is very low on his
priority
> list, so it may be a long wait. My prop is still working great and I'd
hate to
> be without it.
> Fred
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Tri-gear mod? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "martin dovey" <kitfox.england@ntlworld.com>
Hi David,
>I know your not a true pilot till you fly a taildragger
Its not that your not a true pilot, just a less experienced one.
A tailwheel pilot can climb into an (equivalent) trike anyday but
not the other way round.
> but I can lock my brakes at 60 M.P.H. and not have to crawl
out >from under my plane can you?
Yes I certainly can because at 60 mph the brakes only stop the
wheels rotating in the airflow!
I do not cover the brake pedals when landing, I use the inherent
aerodynamic braking of a taildragger. I only use the foot brakes
to manouver once on the ground. I know of far more instances of
wheelbarrowing a trike and braking the nosegear off than turning
a taildragger over. Also, should you have to force land in a
field, a trike often digs in and turns over.
And, almost all of the trike modification will mean exta weight.
OK, so your still not convinced, so I play my master card!
Taildraggers LOOK like real aeroplanes!
(I DO have my flak jacket on)
Cheers
Martin Dovey
Kitfox 3.5
G-BTSV
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: FHowes@aol.com
In a message dated 1/24/04 6:54:32 AM Central Standard Time,
calkinsgm@charter.net writes:
Fred That was almost two years ago. Gene N99GC
That is what I was told 2 weeks ago. Seems like some things never change.
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: <FHowes@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: CAP-140
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: FHowes@aol.com
>
> My CAP 140 prop and gauge worked fine for 406 hours--then the gauge went
> belly up. I was told by Craig at NSI that the guy that was making the
gauges died
> suddenly and they will have to find a new supplier. Unfortunately, Lance
is
> busy on some other project and the gauge problem is very low on his
priority
> list, so it may be a long wait. My prop is still working great and I'd
hate to
> be without it.
> Fred
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Carroll" <RonCarr@Qwest.Net>
Thanks, Charles. I have a neighbor with an Avid, and it has the socket built-in
as a part of his engine mount, but chose the TW configuration. If nothing is
sold by Skystar for this mod, I'll look more closely at his to see if it is
much of a job. I know that he said it would take a different main gear assembly
to move the weight forward. It will probably be more work than its worth.
I'll just have to practice more <G>
Ron
Time: 10:15:26 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tri-gear mod?
From: charles b cook <cookflys@juno.com>
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: charles b cook <cookflys@juno.com>
Ron,
The early model Avids kits where made for tail or nose wheels. If you can
find one to look at it was a simple change. I don't know why Skystar
didn't keep that option going. I might be wrong but the tabs welded aft
of where your tube gear mounts is set up to move the gear aft. Up front
on the early Avids there was a pipe welded to the frame vertically to
slide the gear into and the right rudder pedal on the pilots side had a
push pull linkage to the nosewheel.With just a picture of this you could
make it happen.
On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:04:52 -0800 "Ron Carroll" <RonCarr@Qwest.Net>
writes:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Carroll" <RonCarr@Qwest.Net>
>
> Can a Model-3 or a Model-4 be converted from tailwheel to tricycle
> gear?
>
> If possible I would consider this for my 3, and my neighbor wonders
> if this can be done to his nearly completed Model-4.
>
> Ron Carroll
> KF-3/582
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 912S Starter |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Grant Fluent <gjfpilot@yahoo.com>
Len,
I have the Classic IV with the 912S and am currently
working on my firewall forward. The newer larger
starter has two mounting ears on the end of the
starter which the Rotax service center told me that I
can cut off if I need more clearance.
Let me know if you would like pictures or
dimensions.
Grant Fluent
Newcastle, NE
Classic IV w/912S
--- Len Shorethose <TooLowTerrain@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Len Shorethose"
> <TooLowTerrain@comcast.net>
>
> Hello List,
>
> I was just wondering if anyone has any experience
> yet with the new high torque starter for the 912S
> that Rotax is recommending.
>
> I am considering replacing mine on my 2000 vintage
> Series 5, but Skystar has advised me that it won't
> fit the Series 5 with the bump cowl. (The bump cowl
> is not the problem..it's the engine mount that is a
> tight fit.) But Lockwood in Florida is advising
> that the starter will indeed fit. So I don't know
> what to believe just yet. So I am turning to the
> List to hopefully find an answer.
>
> Thanks for any responses.
>
> Len Shorethose
>
> Series 5 912S
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Tri-gear mod? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Jones <fire_n_ice@direcway.com>
They are so scary, Skystar doesn't even keep one in their fleet anymore.
It's time to drag this out again.
Tom Jones
TAILDRAGGER
Taildragger, I hate your guts,
I have the license , ratings and such
But to make you go straight is driving me nuts.
With hours of teaching and the controls in my clutch
It takes a little rudder, easy, that's too much.
You see, I learned to fly in a tricycle gear
With one up front and two in the rear.
She was sleek and clean and easy to steer
But this miserable thing with tires and struts
Takes a little rudder, easy, that's too much.
It demands your attention on the take-off roll
Or it'll head towards Jones's as you pour on the coal.
Gotta hang loose, don't over control.
This wicked little plane is just too much
With a lot of zigzagging and words obscene
I think I've mastered this slippery machine.
It's not that bad if you have the touch
Just a little rudder, easy, that's too much.
I relax for a second and from the corner of my eye,
I suddenly realize with a gasp and a cry
That's my own tail that's going by.
You ground looping wreck; I hate your guts,
Give a little rudder, Great Scott - THAT'S TOO MUCH!
Author unknown
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
None getting signed up. But it took too long to get a refund when I switched
insurance from my Kitfox to my Sonex!
bh
> I just read recently where the EAA now uses Falcon as
> their insurer. Good endorsement, but I wonder how
> busy that makes Falcon? Any service-response problems
> getting signed up?
>
> Kurt S.
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN@cableone.net>
Not true... The Series 7 Sport is in TD mode and has been for a few
months....
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom Jones
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tri-gear mod?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Jones <fire_n_ice@direcway.com>
They are so scary, Skystar doesn't even keep one in their fleet anymore.
It's time to drag this out again.
Tom Jones
TAILDRAGGER
Taildragger, I hate your guts,
I have the license , ratings and such
But to make you go straight is driving me nuts.
With hours of teaching and the controls in my clutch
It takes a little rudder, easy, that's too much.
You see, I learned to fly in a tricycle gear
With one up front and two in the rear.
She was sleek and clean and easy to steer
But this miserable thing with tires and struts
Takes a little rudder, easy, that's too much.
It demands your attention on the take-off roll
Or it'll head towards Jones's as you pour on the coal.
Gotta hang loose, don't over control.
This wicked little plane is just too much
With a lot of zigzagging and words obscene
I think I've mastered this slippery machine.
It's not that bad if you have the touch
Just a little rudder, easy, that's too much.
I relax for a second and from the corner of my eye,
I suddenly realize with a gasp and a cry
That's my own tail that's going by.
You ground looping wreck; I hate your guts,
Give a little rudder, Great Scott - THAT'S TOO MUCH!
Author unknown
Message 12
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
Get a Competent instructor in tailwheels, They are Great! Personally I love
instructing in them, they make a person land correctly instead of driving it on!
Elbie
Old CFI
Message 13
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: HOLZY@aol.com
FALCON HAS BEEN GREAT! QUICK SERVICE, FAIR RATES & THEY ARE THERE TO ANSWER
THE PHONE (NO VOICE MAIL)!
JIM NELSON IS MY REP.
GOOD LUCK!
MIKE HOLZBERGER
MILWAUKEE, WI
IV/912/104DG
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Tri-gear mod? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dcecil3@aol.com
Well guys,
"The on the ground at 60" was just an example, meaning in extreme situations
you can lock the brakes on a nose wheel aircraft and not worry about a
noseover.I agree that after the explanation, the castoring nosewheel does make
sense. I can only say in my Defense , of the nosewheel that is , that most aircraft
today have them(ie:) commercial ,and GA aircraft. If that is not good enough
then read "Stick and Rudder".As for my aircraft , my model 3 was damaged in an
accident and will require a complete rebuild, by installing the correct
weldments now, I will have a choice later on down the road as to the configuration
of the landing gear . My model 3 is totally uncovered so I have many options ,
I can Weld to my hearts desire.
I realize there are things that I will have to consider like relocating the
Battery Box and Header Tank behind the seat. The Plane originally Had a 582
but I have a 912 to go back in it. I guess this is one of those personal
preference kinda things. You like your Tomato's Stewed, I like mine Green Fried.
I
know there are many Arguments as to each configurations application but I know
what I want( No jokes please about the "Piper Colt" look alike) Me and my
"Flying Milk Stool" will be just Fine
Best to Everyone
David Cecil
KF#950
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Tri-gear mod? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bill Pleso" <bill77@cox.net>
Ron,
Can a Model-3 or a Model-4 be converted from tailwheel to tricycle gear?
I asked the same question (specifically about the Classic IV). The answer
that I got was that the newer model IV framework is built so that it CAN be
converted from a taildragger to a tricycle. The older ones would require
some additional braces & welding. I'm not exactly sure what is "newer" and
"older", but the Model IV NOW can be converted. See Steve Kellanders Model
IV in "Recent Completions" at the Skystar site (he had a tailwheel before
and loves the tri-gear Mod IV). I'm interested in hearing what you decide
to do.
Bill
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Tri-gear mod? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Well, now I am a believer myself. Before this I had
about 13,000 hours of flight time with maybe 1,700 in
helicopters, but long ago. No tail dragger time. Did
I really need it?
Last night I just finished 3 days of annual training -
four 2 hour Boeing 757 (read nose wheel) crash and die
sim sessions, plus classes. From day one, I had the
best single engine work I have ever had, and everyone
called it perfect. Even simulated the complete loss
(as in fell off) of the left 12,000 lb engine, plus
fuel leak, plus cross wind - with 40,000 of thrust on
the other side, initiated just before takeoff
rotation! I stayed on centerline, took off and flew
straight to a pretty "easy" landing. Went from "good"
rudder airwork to, "Now wasn't that pretty!"
This is after only 4.5 hours of recient KitFox tail
dragger time to date. :-) Now I've got faster feet
and better focus. That tail dragger time helps you
fly any plane right.
I am not knocking nose wheel aircraft. Insurance
companies have some data about the difference as
expressed in their rates. But tail draggers make and
keep you a better pilot. In the end, it is how you
fly the plane that determines performance and safety
more than wheel location, IMHO.
I do wish I had a KF 6 or 7 so that it was convertable
though. I'd do it both ways.
And wish I had Elbie near here to give me some
additional instruction too. Then we could both have
fun.
Kurt S.
--- RiteAngle3@aol.com wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by:
> RiteAngle3@aol.com
>
> Get a Competent instructor in tailwheels, They are
> Great! Personally I love
> instructing in them, they make a person land
> correctly instead of driving it on!
> Elbie
> Old CFI
__________________________________
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Tri-gear mod? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Phil Laker" <desertfoxlead@hotmail.com>
First of all. Yes you can convert a model 3 or 4 to tri gear. Murle
Williams
just completed one for a Desert Fox member. I can post details if you are
interested.
This morning 4 foxes from the Desert Fox Squadron left headquarters in rainy
windy weather for Quartzite, the worlds largest swap meet. After about 60
miles
of "terrain following" we arrived to find the dirt strip surrounded by RV's
and a
stiff direct cross wind. After a choppy approach we landed without
incident.
Now any competent tailwheel pilot could have done the same, but with the 3
Vixens and the trigear IV it was easy! Stan Foster has 700 hours in his
tail dragger
model 4, including Alaska and much back country, but his new plane is
trigear
because "it's just a lot easier to land and I can stop shorter". Steve
Kellander
has hundreds of hours in Cubs and 1200 hours in a model 3, his new plane is
a model 4 trigear for the same reasons. I have no doubt a dragger pilot
has
the highest of skills, but boy the 1100 hours in my Vixen have been pretty
stress
free, and my reason for building and flying this plane is pure enjoyment.
Phil Laker Desert Fox Squadron
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Phil Laker Tri-gear mod? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dcecil3@aol.com
I would love to see the Mod I have Photos from a KF lite showing the
Airframe without covering .would love to see another
Best David Cecil
KF Model 3 #950
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choice |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron" <rliebmann@comcast.net>
Hi Milt,
Jeff Hays hit it right on the head when he said that I would do it because
the price was great. It will cost me $6000 to install a zero time C-85
with electrical system. A C-85 in a Wittman Tailwind will cruise it at
145mph. Its empty wt. is the same as the Series 5. My climb rate will be
down to about 600fpm but my cruise should be about 115. The higher hp
engines will show their hp mostly in climb performance. I'll still be a lot
better than a Cessna 140...I'll be happy. I hear that the cost of a new
912s with firewall forward is over 17K now.......Retirement pension allows
for the C-85 at about 1/3 that cost.
Just got home from Oshkosh where they had the yearly ski plane/ chili fest.
7 deg temp but no wind and blue skies made for a great day. Lots of neat
planes on skis. No Kitfoxes, darn.....
Ron N55KF
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Milt's Kitfox Stuff"
<flysly@erols.com>
>
> Ron,
> I would do some head scratching before I put a C-85 on a Series V and
> carefully consider a 912 in light of the weight to power ratio. I'm
putting
> a Franklin A-235 on my Series V that offers 125 hp. Once I get it flying
> and put some time on it, I plan to upgrade to high compression pistons
which
> will yield 145 hp. At that power to weight ratio I should have a pretty
> good capability for the cost... about $14-$15K.
>
> Good Luck,
> Milt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron" <rliebmann@comcast.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Engine choice
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron" <rliebmann@comcast.net>
> >
> > Hello Listers,
> >
> > I have a Model 5 which I will rebuild in the future and I'm considering
a
> > C-85 with starter and alternator. Has anyone heard of a C-85 in a
Kitfox?
> >
> > Thanks, Ron N55KF
> >
> >
>
>
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